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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
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Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Oh ._. sorry ♥Now Yoshi, I wouldn't say something like that to YOU.
dmosher
Member
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
No. You aren't paying attention.Holy Hell, all of Dice's complaining....is about AI games???!!!!!
I literally never complained about anything in the design of the game except the matchmaking.
Due to the players, I think I am coming to agree.
This is the apathy that leads people to never try, never learn, brush off anyone who would like to, and ruins the whole experience.
Thanks for assuming I'm blowing a casket every game. I'm not. Mostly confounded and annoyed. Here is a nice example.
We're playing battlefield of eternity. We're winning and the enemy is on a bare core. Me and a Butcher are up there attacking core and enemies which we can do since we have good CC and damage between us and self heals and the enemy is on staggered death timers so we repeatedly 2v1. We get the core to 30% before we have to leave.
The rest of the team was off doing what? Killing minions to get the waves to move up (because you do that always in LoL), and dumb shit like a Zeratul trying to do mercs himself and taking fucktons of damage.
"We don't need mercs, we just need all of us here"
"cool story"
"Me and Butcher got it to 30% just by ourselves"
"congrats"
*angel & demon pop up*
The 3 morons go to do that objective, both wasting more time (the mercs were sent to die) and allowing the enemy team to consolidate and put us at risk.
"Just have fun" you say. That shit is not fun. That is ignoring the the whole point of the game, wasting time on pointless shit, putting teammates doing well under too much pressure so they have to back off what was and should have remained an advantage, and risking a comeback loss with associated MMR drop for everyone.
Was I raging? No. I was just sickened by their shitty selfish attitude and didn't want them to win. Internally I was rooting for the other team at that point and disinterested enough I just wanted to turn it off. It was simply lacking fun and annoying when it could have been a pleasant fulfillment of our prior good play. I'm not a person who simply cares about winning or losing. I just want the game to be played how it is intended with common sense and the chips fall as they may.
Players like that are 20x worse than toxic angry people who still actually have a sense of how the game is played and try. If I wanted to "just have fun" dicking around doing stuff that had nothing to do with the point of the game, I could play practice mode.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
So, just out of curiosity, was this an AI game or a QM / HL match?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
QM. AI doesn't have MMR so far as I know. But even when people pull that kind of shit on AI matches it is still annoying and a waste of time, and I have played with teams bad enough that we lost an AI match since even against bots you can't 5v1, and likewise getting stuck in one spot holding off 3 bots on a lane yourself because nobody is responding is not fun. Like I said, if I just wanted to dick around not playing the game as it is intended, I could play practice mode. I don't know why these moron players aren't doing that if they care so little. If I weren't playing for dailies I probably would just quit those AI games and let them deal with the shit they get themselves into rather than mostly win it for their lazy asses.
I dunno where you keep getting this 200 matches thing. Maybe from us discussing it earlier and me referencing that? Either way 200 matches isn't a guarantee of anything even if you are working hard to improve. At the risk of more qq about cyberstalking, your hotdogs says you are Gold with 193 games played. I imagine you don't upload yourself or don't upload anymore because I'm fairly certain you've played more QM than that, and you've referenced HL and it's not even listed. Still, at 193 games it's probably a decently accurate assessment of what you are facing. Those games at that bracket were never decent or competent. The people were probably more tractable pre-release, sure, but my repeated experience at that bracket has been similar to yours.
I was there initially in Alpha, and I've smurfed around in both Betas and release. I have recently been playing my second account that was about ~75 MMR lower than yours at about 110 games and I've slowly worked it up to 2250 now. Each time and each phase of the game - always toxicity, always idiots. Lots more disconnects than you see further up.
If you are better than that skill bracket you will go up though. If you are as appreciably better as you seem to think, you will go up quickly. That said, there's no magic "decent games" level. We had 5 of the shittiest games in recent memory last night and our average MMR is 3k. HOTS is a cruel mistress with the rubberband.
After having played League yourself now, if you can't tell the difference between a game that needs a surrender and a game that doesn't we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
The game isn't holding you back or keeping you in any hell. You are holding you back. We've told you this time and again. You are so concerned with what everyone else is doing you aren't even focused on what you are doing. You've said before you'll mail it in early if someone does something stupid. You won't help lanes if they piss you off. You are talking about not wanting to give it 100%. If you aren't going to give it 100% every game, then what do you expect? LOL. FFS man. Read some of what you write.
If you are good enough, you will move up and face better players. Will that make the game better for you? Based on your complaints, I doubt it. I'm not trying to be bad news bears to your bad news Brian here, but I honestly feel like 50% or more of this is on you and your attitude as much as it is on the shit players you encounter because you can't seem to get over basic human error and think it's some kind of personal affront or them willfully disobeying the rules of the game.
You keep talking about these bad players like they don't care...I don't understand that. I've rarely played with anyone GAF or otherwise in any game who didn't care.
You assume because they play badly or make stupid decisions or don't listen to your commands that they don't care? Maybe they just think you are wrong? Maybe you come across as brash or desperate?
Maybe your way - that you have repeatedly argued is indeed right - is not the right way for your bracket?
All I know is you are the one here regularly having these issues and seeing no improvement. Others have these issues and these same shit games as well, but most realize the majority of the losses have more than one spot where it went wrong and you only ever seem to blame the randoms. If you don't want to take the time to step back and improve yourself and your play you can't go around complaining about others who "don't care" as what you are doing is the definition of not caring - particularly when there's nothing in the world you can do to fix the others so fixing yourself is the only recourse.
It might help.
People who are having the kind of games Dice and co are really just need to find a buddy and group though. It won't make anything perfect but the game is far more enjoyable together than separate.
There's the reddit channel. The amovetv channel. The GAF channel and GAF B.net ID list. I've gotten plenty of groups from all three and see folks grouping regularly in both reddit and amovetv. There's also the old fashioned way where you just add someone who performed well after a game and ask to group.
I've got 3 losses to my name in my AI career and two of them were with Chen. He's atrocious for that mode whether you are him or playing with him on the team. Just not a lot you can do to affect the game in any way.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Just a ballpark number for the most basic placement standard, which also happens to be a massive investment of trudging through BS IMO. The point is just to show how absurd it is, and that is even with a conservative number.
I've never uploaded. I haven't played HL, it's just where my G3 friends play, or at least have thus far, but that will probably change if they can only duo at most.
That's the thing, I don't think I am really good or anything. If I were really good the constant 2v1 situations I'm forced to hold because my shitty team doesn't understand balance and can't even make progress on free lanes wouldn't bother me so much. I just want basic comprehension of the game among my team.
I don't know why you constantly take these things out of context. I have never given up on a team until they have thoroughly disregarded the game themselves. I don't just see a bad play and assume. My "giving up" is a policy I have taken on that I'm not going to try and hold up a game that others have thoroughly demonstrated they won't. I'll only fight for a team that is fighting. I won't solo 1v4 or 1v5 defend a fort for a team that isn't coming to help me in the lane when I could counterpush. Same for getting objectives or stopping turn ins or whatever when I'm outpowered. It is indeed futile to make a futile effort that is so because you are left to yourself as the only person who has any sort of a mind for consequences. I will not be the sole arbiter of victory; partially because it is a team game, and partially because that means by it's design that I literally cannot be. It's a policy I took on AFTER dozens of games of struggling 100% to the bitter end for no reason because it's pointless if your team has no awareness or care and doesn't respond when you offer it to them.
I think so because they say so. They just do what they want and directly verbalize total apathy to any consequences. How many times have I repeated myself saying that I don't mind if players are unskilled if they are at least trying? What do you think I meant by that? And as I said the other week, this is not every single game, there are victories and "good losses" and in between, but the bad is common enough and bad enough to spoil the whole pursuit. And I have tried everything across the spectrum of "tone" to try and see what is most effective in swaying people. It seems far more dependent on them simply being willing people than however I particularly phrase things.
As I said before. I have had plenty of "good losses" where it seemed perfectly well enough that we were simply outplayed. I can recognize my mistakes and learn from them. You don't hear me complaining about those because they are reasonable so they aren't of particular note, they are as the natural learning experience should be. But when I get games where it seems like the matching is just like "You know what? Fuck you. You get the antisocial garbage team from hell and your opposing team will actually work together" it is incredibly hard to have some pure view of only working on myself like that will make it all better. Rather, it just seems like the matching system is a pile of shit and you could have a world class pro in my spot and they'd get their asses handed to them all the same.
But as I have already said, if that is truly just the nature of all MOBAs, and my time in alpha/beta was just some magical ideal miracle circumstance of thoughtful players privately invited, and it takes several hundred/thousand games to prove myself worthy of actually experiencing the gameplay by the obvious intentions of it's design, I guess I'm just realizing that I hate real-world forms of this genre that I never had any interaction with until HotS.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Me and Zafir collab! THE HYPE IS REAL!
Since we're on the topic of Vs AI games...
They can get really strange when you're the only human player.
For starters, because they're AI, even when they're making stupid decisions, they still aim all skill-shots perfectly and dodge your skill shots with instant reflexes. But then, they'll turn around and rejoin the battle at 1/3 health and get killed anyway.
Both sets of AI also tend to go for merc camps at the exact same time too, so if you see your AI teammates going for a siege camp, the enemy team is doing the same thing with their own camp.
They also seem to get confused if an objective goes long enough without being captured. This is most evident on Dragonshire, where they will simply start ignoring the shrines entirely if a Dragonknight can't be summoned after enough time
The weirdest I've encountered is that sometimes pinging an AI teammate to force them to follow you has the opposite effect. If the teammate is near me already and fighting with me, I sometimes ping them to make sure they stay with me. Sometimes doing that will make them immediately turn around and start to hearth back for no reason. And then pinging them again to release them makes them cancel their hearth and run right back to where they were fighting.
(yes, I play a lot of vs AI, usually just to be doing dailies or leveling up some heroes while I watch youtube vids or listen to audiobooks).
They can get really strange when you're the only human player.
For starters, because they're AI, even when they're making stupid decisions, they still aim all skill-shots perfectly and dodge your skill shots with instant reflexes. But then, they'll turn around and rejoin the battle at 1/3 health and get killed anyway.
Both sets of AI also tend to go for merc camps at the exact same time too, so if you see your AI teammates going for a siege camp, the enemy team is doing the same thing with their own camp.
They also seem to get confused if an objective goes long enough without being captured. This is most evident on Dragonshire, where they will simply start ignoring the shrines entirely if a Dragonknight can't be summoned after enough time
The weirdest I've encountered is that sometimes pinging an AI teammate to force them to follow you has the opposite effect. If the teammate is near me already and fighting with me, I sometimes ping them to make sure they stay with me. Sometimes doing that will make them immediately turn around and start to hearth back for no reason. And then pinging them again to release them makes them cancel their hearth and run right back to where they were fighting.
(yes, I play a lot of vs AI, usually just to be doing dailies or leveling up some heroes while I watch youtube vids or listen to audiobooks).
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Personally I never give up. No matter how bad my team is playing I still do my best to win the match, that's the whole point, challenge, and for myself FUN of playing the game. At least I know I gave my all when the match is over, even if my all is average at best.
I can't tell you how many times a bad team I've been on has come together at the very end to win it anyway. Sometimes those are the best games of all!
Never give up, never surrender.
That's in QM's though. With AI games, it doesn't really matter, 99% of the time victory is assured.
Wait, you play in total AI games where you are the only human and it's AI vs AI? I've never done that, didn't even know you could, LOL!
The new Tastosis for sure.
Yeah, and if you're the only human player, you can actually pause the game by bringing up the menu.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Do you get the same XP as a human vs AI game? Still 10g per win? I think I'll try this out tonight out of pure curiosity.....
Moff
Member
yes, 10g per win, I did that for months to learn the basic game. I am now playing QM only though
Yes, same xp and same gold as if you had one or more human team mates.
Be prepared for the AI allies to never do exactly what you want them to though. Playing as a warrior can be especially frustrating as they can never be counted on to dive in when you initiate.
Yup. Yup. Lack of stress is fantastic for koing dailies.
super-famicom
Member
I have a 2013 MBP with the following stats that handles it pretty well:
I'm on an early 2013 MBP with a terrible graphics card and the game runs fine for me. I do put all graphic settings on low, though.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Huh. I would honestly think that humans vs AI would be LESS stressful due to the humans easily kicking the AI's collective butts! I'll still try a few full AI games tonight just to check it out though.
@ Dice
The thing is though, Heroes is in such a early stage. There isn't really any strict meta at the moment really, and so people just do what ever, that's why people sometimes play it like LoL. Even then, some people will do whatever regardless. Some people just play the game casually and don't bother learning or reading up on mechanics or whatever. I've been playing Dota 2 quite a bit recently, and I've been put with people who have like 500 hours(which is over double the hours I have) in the game and they still don't really understand core concepts of Dota, which is absolutely baffling to me, but there you go.
I believe the reason it feels worse in HotS over other MOBAs is down to two factors. First of all you just can't influence the game as much as other MOBAs by design, so questionable players can bring the team down a bit, and sometimes you just can't do much about it. Second, which ties in to the first issue, quick match due to it's design creates matchmaking issues which due to it being an uncoordinated mode ends up causing some issues. I mean sure you can get away with certain comps if you can coordinate your team a certain away but good luck in QM.
Both can be solved to a certain extent by finding a group to play with. The latter issue, I just hope they add a unranked draft mode.
We should definitely do some inhouses though. Maybe even do a cross region one when the PTS is up.
The thing is though, Heroes is in such a early stage. There isn't really any strict meta at the moment really, and so people just do what ever, that's why people sometimes play it like LoL. Even then, some people will do whatever regardless. Some people just play the game casually and don't bother learning or reading up on mechanics or whatever. I've been playing Dota 2 quite a bit recently, and I've been put with people who have like 500 hours(which is over double the hours I have) in the game and they still don't really understand core concepts of Dota, which is absolutely baffling to me, but there you go.
I believe the reason it feels worse in HotS over other MOBAs is down to two factors. First of all you just can't influence the game as much as other MOBAs by design, so questionable players can bring the team down a bit, and sometimes you just can't do much about it. Second, which ties in to the first issue, quick match due to it's design creates matchmaking issues which due to it being an uncoordinated mode ends up causing some issues. I mean sure you can get away with certain comps if you can coordinate your team a certain away but good luck in QM.
Both can be solved to a certain extent by finding a group to play with. The latter issue, I just hope they add a unranked draft mode.
I'm not so sure about that but /hype ;D
We should definitely do some inhouses though. Maybe even do a cross region one when the PTS is up.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Shrug. I've not actually played LoL, so I'm kind of just assuming people are correct in saying that they are.
LoL's systems let you treat it as 5 solo games that aren't interacting very much, and it emphasizes laning to a degree HOTS doesn't. Laynor is the end result- thinks he's doing a good job because he's keeping his lane pushed out and that everyone else just needs to worry about their own shit.
Yeah i dont disagree w/ dat
i actually would love this to be a topic of discussion i like comparing mobas
But to me that's a fundamental misunderstanding of hots mechanics rather than a wholesale import from league or dota (like if you think about the purpose of being in lane, last hitting for gold vs. soaking exp they are just different mechanics for the same purpose). Like i dont think ppl are gonna be like "thats how it works in league tho" u know?
i actually would love this to be a topic of discussion i like comparing mobas
But to me that's a fundamental misunderstanding of hots mechanics rather than a wholesale import from league or dota (like if you think about the purpose of being in lane, last hitting for gold vs. soaking exp they are just different mechanics for the same purpose). Like i dont think ppl are gonna be like "thats how it works in league tho" u know?
I had fun with him too. I find him interesting. Did some solo and some grouped. I'm still not sold on either heroic, they feel lackluster without the upgrades at 20, but otherwise he seems to be alright.
Still not had much good use out of Feign Death or saw much good use of it from others either, but maybe that'll change.
In Alpha and Beta I had more than a few use League as their logic for whatever they did. People or myself would ask them why didn't they something, they'd say something dumb, people would try to explain it, and they'd be like "I'm "x" (where "x" is their ranking) in league nub l2p". Haven't really saw that too much since however.
In general I agree with you that it's more a misunderstanding of HOTS than it is an understanding of another game and attempting to apply that here.
Last night playing solo I had a game where our Thrall had 10 deaths and no damage, our Zeratul had 14 deaths and no damage, and we had a Tyrande for our healer. The enemy had a Rehgar. Thrall continued to insist we had no front line and that was why we were losing despite the fact that it was Rexxar vs Rexxar up front, and that we needed to soak on Tomb separately at level 10+ because "we get more experience that way". Nevermind the Zeratul picking him off every time he entered lane solo or the healing disparity. Despite two others trying to explain this to him, he continued to rail against how we didn't have a "real tank" and "didn't stay in our lanes" post 10. Some people just don't get it or think they get it but are wrong just like in every other thing/job/activity people do.
InvaderZimmer
Member
Went from a 60% winrate overall to literally 0 in the last week. May have to look at Hero League again or put this on the back burner.
Orochinagis
Member
Is pretty weird to see a fully enemy team without any source of stun or knockback right now, disabling his Ability makes him pretty useless in TFs
But what about the potential for drunk McIntyre casting of GAF games?
That's a tremendous amount of annoying.
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