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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
- Thread starter Nirolak
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jaundicejuice
Member
Because they get tunnel vision and don't go for crazy shit like this only when their opponents leave themselves open to it.
This entire comp is the exact one they used earlier and steamrolled with.
This is basically the problem in a nushell: Cog is trying to force a strat- Complexity is reacting to it with a Korean-style beef team that shuts it down.
If you read the Korean commentary draft notes, there's an incredible amount of thought going into what they're doing in OGN that really seems to be missing in the US.
jaundicejuice
Member
Korean-style beef sounds tasty.
Nice to see such a close set of three though. Most of them have been rather one sided.
Yeah, I've been pleasantly surprised by Gilly considering I hadn't seen her commentate before.
Yeah, I've been pleasantly surprised by Gilly considering I hadn't seen her commentate before.
Orochinagis
Member
Care to explain? I want to buy Azmo
Took the lazer upgrade at L1, made it so it accellerates in power as time goes on- given Azmo's HP pool, it murders Illidan after a while and Illidan cant kill him fast enough.
jaundicejuice
Member
4) Sin's Grasp - envenom style DoT
7) Infused Power - increase laser damage
13) March of Sin - move while lasering Illidan's face
They had no CC to interrupt Azmodan while he used All Shall Burn. So he wrecked their Illidan.
they did yeah
jaundicejuice
Member
I can't exactly articulate why but I don't find competitive HotS as engaging as competitive Dota. Based off of what little I just watched now.
There's some serious snowball issues in the game right now that need to be addressed. Close games are incredible, but they're a minority.
i think the snowball issue is that there's a large skill difference between most of the teams.
Nah, it's not just these matches or pro matches or QM/HL ones- its everything. They have issues with how things are weighted right now that make it hard to catch levels up late in a game even if you win a team fight or pick off members of a team that's ahead in ways that aren't really healthy.
You can rack up kills (equalling ~1 tower each) easily early in the game, getting you ahead if you can rack up a string of kills. Late in the game, your opponents can wipe you from 2 levels behind, but they won't get anything close to the amount of EXP you did, and the soak EXP isn't going to be nearly enough- the early edges are worth far more than the later ones. Wiping a team at level 4/5/6 gets you a full level. Doesn't come close to getting you that in the 15-19 range. Once you've got a lead and maintained it, its very difficult for the opponents to come back on it because of the way the relative values alter over the course of a game.
It's a high-level design issue with their exp values. I vastly preferred the pre-TSQ exp mechanics and how they played out.
edit: There's a reason that you see those "6-8 ganks" "10-8 level lead" "GG" games on TSQ far more than any other map- the minion kill values are lower on that map- ganks give you much more relative experience on that map compared to others. This is a contributing reason to why Abathur isn't usually grabbed and why so many teams go hyper-aggressive on that map when they don't do that on others. This is clearly by design, they changed the exp values of the game in general to reward early aggression and ganks more.
I think the solution to this probably involves just giving kills from behind a bigger multiplier than they currently have, separate from the 10/20/30/40% general multiplier that exists right now when you're behind.
it almost feels like heroes is becoming a real thing
more like 10x his normal viewership
That's what I said. "He's had double or more what he usually does lately but tonight there's a bunch".
Up to 450 now.
jaundicejuice
Member
I'm shitty Uther but if you answer a few simple questions you can see if my skill build is for you. Do you enjoy right clicking stuff? Do you like to stun shit? If the answer is even maybe then...
1) Fist of Justice ~ Stun things, and then right click to stun things faster.
4) Hammer of the Lightbringer ~ Because going back to fountain for mana is for pussies, you should be standing in a lane right clicking stuff.
7) Holy Fire ~ Because you're standing next to stuff, right clicking and stunning it. Now you do a DoT
10) Divine Storm ~ A good support would probably pick Divine Shield but you're all about right clicking and stunning stuff. This lets you stun more stuff. You don't like stuns? Why are you even playing Uther?
13) Holy Shock ~ You should be healing people, but you stunned something, it's got little to no health, is getting away and you can't stun it again and Holy Radiance is on CD. Now you have a ranged nuke.
16) Gathering Radiance ~ Wave clear and increased damage in teamfights. It's not a stun and there are better talents to take at this tier if you want to be a good support, but that's not the point of this build. This is manfighting Uther.
20) Divine Hurricane ~ Stun more things, what more could you want?
Now go out into the Nexus, right click and stun shit. For the Light.
I'm hardly an expert on Uther, but I do have over 120 games played with a 60% win rate. This is my go-to build:
1. Fist of Justice
4. Hammer of the Lightbringer
7. Holy Fire
10. Divine Shield
13. Shrink Ray
16. Benediction - always
20. Redemption - always
Situational Talents
(in order of preference)
Level 1:
- Fist of Justice - For when the opponent has a melee-heavy team, especially assassins. This talent will help you serve stun after stun.
- Block - For when the opponent has a ranged AA-heavy team. This will help soften those painful pokes from Raynor, Hammer, etc.
- Conjurer's Pursuit - For when you don't take Hammer of the Lightbringer at level 4. Decent on: Blackheart's Bay, Dragon Shire, Tomb of the Spider Queen. Not worth it on: Battlefield of Eternity, Haunted Mines.
Level 4:
- Hammer of the Lightbringer - If you play it smart, you will rarely need to hearth from lane for health/mana with this talent.
- Protective Shield - For when your team has multiple high-health heroes (warriors, Naz, Az) that you need help keeping alive before hitting level 10/16.
Level 7:
- Holy Fire - Gives Uther some much needed wave and camp clear alongside Holy Radiance.
- Clairvoyance - This is more useful if your team already has strong wave clear and lane presence and vision would be more beneficial. Good on most maps.
- Cleanse - As needed, if you still believe Cleanse is viable.
Level 10:
- Divine Shield - For when your team has a squishy or melee assassin who's worth keeping alive (ex. Jaina, Kael, Kerri) and/or the opponent has a lot of burst damage.
- Divine Storm - For when you or the opponent have a melee-heavy team, be it tanks or assassins, that will make it easier for you to close the gap and stun multiple heroes during team fights.
Level 13
- Shrink Ray - You'll want this talent in most cases to disrupt your opponent's assassins. For when another hero on your team gets Shrink Ray:
- Blessed Champion - Combos nicely with Benediction for extra heals.
- Spell Shield - If you're having trouble staying alive against mages/wombos. If you're against a competent Malf or another hero with a low cost, low CD poke, don't bother with this talent.
I need to know your Rehgar build. Huehue.
As a solo healer he only has one build, sadly. I don't think that's enough to bring up your win percentage to MA level
47%
standard uther build choices:
conj/reach/block
boundless/prot shield
wave/cleanse/clar
shield/storm (pretty much always shield unless you have tyrael, shield is always good tho)
spellshield/shrink
benediction
redemption
as uther it's pretty important to die/bait
10 min: http://www.twitch.tv/blizzheroes
@dota vs. hots spectating
dota, besides having more depth, also has more players worldwide who are keen to the depth, you can kind of say that above-average dota players are at the same level meta wise as pro-hots players. korean hots seems far above na hots in terms of strategy, so check that out if the na tourney is not doing it for u
a lot of this feeling can be chalked off as hots being an infant game imo
im jus here for the stories tho
conj/reach/block
boundless/prot shield
wave/cleanse/clar
shield/storm (pretty much always shield unless you have tyrael, shield is always good tho)
spellshield/shrink
benediction
redemption
as uther it's pretty important to die/bait
10 min: http://www.twitch.tv/blizzheroes
@dota vs. hots spectating
dota, besides having more depth, also has more players worldwide who are keen to the depth, you can kind of say that above-average dota players are at the same level meta wise as pro-hots players. korean hots seems far above na hots in terms of strategy, so check that out if the na tourney is not doing it for u
a lot of this feeling can be chalked off as hots being an infant game imo
im jus here for the stories tho
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Already miss gaby and I hate the Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, jeez.
And stop it with the baritone attempt.
And stop it with the baritone attempt.
I feel like there's a real issue with the upper-mid teams not getting enough teams to practice against. These Thrall/Illidan teams feel like pubstomper/winmore teams that are great when you're better than the other team, but fall apart against a team on your level or that's better than you that knows how to approach dealing with them.
These teams look nutty/unstoppable when they're stomping. But once you actually face real competition? Not so much. When Ketch says "they're winning because they're better" - that's true, but if a team is that much better than their opposition, they can get away with picking just about anything. (This is where C9's Stitches/Murky BM picks come in.) It feels like the upper-mid teams keep picking teams as though they are still in that postiion when facing real competition. You just can't give away those edges when you need every edge you can get against a team like TS or C9.
edit: So happy to see the Uther ban. I think Korea is 100% correct in instabanning him - he's so silly.
These teams look nutty/unstoppable when they're stomping. But once you actually face real competition? Not so much. When Ketch says "they're winning because they're better" - that's true, but if a team is that much better than their opposition, they can get away with picking just about anything. (This is where C9's Stitches/Murky BM picks come in.) It feels like the upper-mid teams keep picking teams as though they are still in that postiion when facing real competition. You just can't give away those edges when you need every edge you can get against a team like TS or C9.
edit: So happy to see the Uther ban. I think Korea is 100% correct in instabanning him - he's so silly.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Just bad luck being in the group stage with TS and C9
Is there a gaf chatroom again?
Is there a gaf chatroom again?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
glad i saw there was a portrait thing for the championships this weekend.
damn, Tempo Storm!!
damn, Tempo Storm!!
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
!portrait
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wonder when the calls to nerf Uther will start. Also just funny how he went from 3rd healer to first picks bans w/o receiving any changes.
Also love this comment from Zuna when asked about C9
Also love this comment from Zuna when asked about C9
Outdoor Miner
Member
Gawd damn, Tempo Storm!
Yes, If this were politics, you'd be the guy constantly telling people about "bootstraps".
You can hit rank 1 in 20-25 games. Win enough dice rolls, and you too can get a too-high MMR that will take ages to correct as you slowly drop after your placement games while people have to suffer through you.
Browder doing HL off-hours is definitely having an impact on his perspective- he's seeing the shit we're seeing and knows they need to fix it. Very happy he went and did that.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
the announcer called the Brightwing a "master baiter" on air.
lol
wow these technical issues are annoying. wonder whats going on.
lol
wow these technical issues are annoying. wonder whats going on.
But it's not politics. It's a multiplayer video game. One where that you lose when you're not as good as your opponent.
And you don't understand that I'm not talking about skill, I'm talking about the game incentivizing players and favoring certain strategies that lead to the snowbally games that aren't much fun for either side or viewers.
I'm not saying X team should be losing less or winning more- it's how those wins/losses are playing out.
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point then. I thought you were saying that when you get behind it's too hard to comeback because the XP mechanics are unbalanced.
But we just saw two games in a row where the team who was behind won the game after just one (or maybe two) mistakes by the other team.
Subjectively, looks like the better teams win... even though they get behind.
Where's the indication that the XP system is unbalanced?
It's the teams that are unbalanced. Which is totally natural and expected.
But we just saw two games in a row where the team who was behind won the game after just one (or maybe two) mistakes by the other team.
Subjectively, looks like the better teams win... even though they get behind.
Where's the indication that the XP system is unbalanced?
It's the teams that are unbalanced. Which is totally natural and expected.
TS and C9 never fell below 1.5 levels- they were able to take engagements when they were only 1 level behind (and were smart about doing so in the timing window where that was the case.) In that range you're still competitive and the snowball issues really aren't there. When games stay in this under-2 level range they're generally still good.
It's that when you fall 2+ levels behind (especially with a heroic disadvantage), the game mechanics start taking a big, big, big dump on you. It's not just the EXP mechanic- Dunktrain's mentioned that he feels the strength of healing is a big factor in this because it's not only the damage/hp pools that scale upwards, but also the rate of damage mitigation scaling upwards as well.
The game rewards early kills heavily right now. I'm not a fan of that design, but if you're going to keep incentivizing heavy ganks- you need to make the later ones count just as much as the early ones. If you go YOLO and die to a team 3 levels behind? That should be a boon to the opposing team. But right now it's just normal kill exp +30%, which isn't compensating for the degree of difficulty there. With the way the systems interact, HOTS's stat values are scaling exponentially while EXP scales linerally. I'm not saying you should team-wipe them and get back to even- of course not. But the current "wipe em, gain roughly half an exp bar" thing isn't good either- there needs to be a better balance.
Wiping your opponents early is far, far more rewarding than wiping them late. (until you've reached the deathmatch hours of the game.) That's not good.
This is not an outcome-oriented argument. I don't care which team wins. It's about game flow and how fun the game is to play and watch. If you adjust the systems, TS/C9 are still going to wipe the floor with other teams most of the time because they're better.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Well that was a beating
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