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[Alur]

I'm with you Maledict. Got all my heroes on two accounts and enough gold for the next one on one and for the next 3-4 on my main.

That said, I still bought the stimpack. lol

The one thing left for me to chase now that there's no incentive to continue in HL on my accounts is hero levels. And it pains me to level without stimpack after leveling with it. The gold is just a bonus.

I haven't bought anything else in the sale yet.

Muradin, Sgt. Hammer, Anub'arak, Arthas, Tyrael, Azmodan, and Johanna are the only heroes I don't own at least one skin for (whether that's master or paid). Of that list, I might get Magni Muradin, Sgt. Doomhammer, and Demonic Tyrael in the sale. Anub'arak/Arthas/Azmodan/Johanna I either like the base skin better than the paid skins, or I would just prefer the master.

 

[Celegus]

Honestly the only skin I'd even consider is Jaina's winter one, but it's only a part of that bundle. Most I think are worse than the base. My money continues to be safe!

 

[Auteezy]

Heroes just seem so expensive to me, like getting 20-30 gold a game plus the maybe 400 or whatever average daily gold just seems like such a grind for a casual player. I guess they try to price them where if you want it bad enough you just pay for it with money and not coins. I don't really like the paywall hero stuff.

 

[Alur]

I'd imagine most anyone coming from Dota (or Smite) agree with you.

It is expensive IMO. I'm a whale anyway.

It does snowball gold wise the longer you play. The feel and look of that empty hero select screen makes it seem worse than it is early on from my POV.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It only snowballs once you have a big hero pool and no hero you actually want and unless you buy some heroes it will take a long while to get to that point

It's working on me since I'm a sucker but the monetization is pretty garbage

 

[Auteezy]

They should just make every 10k gold hero super OP on release for like a week so that everybody buys it with cash then begin nerfing it to the ground.

 

[Alur]

I think it snowballs regardless.

You're earning gold from games, you're earning gold from leveling your account, you're earning gold from leveling heroes. You get gold from dailies whenever you do them. Sometimes you get gold from events, though that is unreliable, but when it's going it's definitely a step up.

Most people only seem to play 4-5 heroes regularly, maybe less. Some expand their regularly played pool to 10-15. Very few actually play a ton of heroes, they just want to try them or want to own them. The account leveling experience of 1-40 + dailies + gold from whatever heroes you play in that time provides you the gold to purchase whatever those 10 heroes you really liked were anyway (for HL) provided you aren't trying to buy every 10k hero on the roster.

That's my theory on why the gold gain QQ from alpha/beta died down. The majority of the complaints centered around "I can't own all the heroes in a fast or cheap manner", but in the end the vast majority of players only really get deep into 1/4th of the hero pool tops so it was kind of a hollow cry that was more about innate gamer bias against most F2P models than it was about how much content they could actually devour.

Since the free rotation regularly provides access to most heroes every so often (sans the Murky/Abathur types), you can still get your 500g and experience said hero in a reasonable time frame that is soon to be even more reasonable due to expanding free week hero pool from 7 heroes to 10 heroes. I think the longer people play/played, they began to realize this and the fervor died down.

For Blizzard their issue is finding some sweet spot where people aren't initially turned off just by looking at the prices before getting more than a few games into HOTS. Whether that's ultimately lower prices, a more detailed explanation of just how much gold gain players get early and how that translates into hero ownership, or something else I don't know. No doubt it's a barrier to entry though. I just differ with some folks on whether by account level 40 the issue is really a mountain or just a mole hill.

 

[Jrmint]

They really should let you buy skins with gold also, it's a real bummer they don't.

Other than the master skin I know.

 

[Strakt]

I need to start playing again Overwatch beta has taken over my life

 

[Alur]

They should just make every 10k gold hero super OP on release for like a week so that everybody buys it with cash then begin nerfing it to the ground.

Haha, according to reddit that's exactly what they do. At least until the foursome of Kharazim, Rexxar, Lt. Morales, and Artanis dropped. They were all panned on release and it was determined that Blizzard was now cashing in on fanaticism and early adopters with subpar heroes with half-baked kits and subpar design.

 

[Auteezy]

Haha, according to reddit that's exactly what they do.

i thought that too, but then i saw medic and artanis

 

[kirblar]

Haha, according to reddit that's exactly what they do. At least until the foursome of Kharazim, Rexxar, Lt. Morales, and Artanis dropped. They were all panned on release and it was determined that Blizzard was now cashing in on fanaticism and early adopters with subpar heroes with half-baked kits and subpar design.

Theyre doing a good job responding to external feedback, but holey moley their internal balance team just seems waaaaaay off.

Like Artanis and Morales just aren't even functional.

 

[Alur]

Like Artanis and Morales just aren't even functional.

I dunno man. We've had pretty good success with em. They aren't dragging the bottom of hotdoggies by any means either so some others are too.

comp dependent =/= not functional

Could use some tweaks and/or buffs sure, but they seem functional. They are just very reliant on a formula to succeed, but you kind of need heroes like that as the pool gets bigger and bigger.

EDIT: There have definitely been more bugs and/or strange quirks in the Rexxar/Medic/Artanis trifecta than I can ever remember previous, though, if that's your reference for not functional.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I think it snowballs regardless.

You're earning gold from games, you're earning gold from leveling your account, you're earning gold from leveling heroes. You get gold from dailies whenever you do them. Sometimes you get gold from events, though that is unreliable, but when it's going it's definitely a step up.

Most people only seem to play 4-5 heroes regularly, maybe less. Some expand their regularly played pool to 10-15. Very few actually play a ton of heroes, they just want to try them or want to own them. The account leveling experience of 1-40 + dailies + gold from whatever heroes you play in that time provides you the gold to purchase whatever those 10 heroes you really liked were anyway (for HL) provided you aren't trying to buy every 10k hero on the roster.

That's my theory on why the gold gain QQ from alpha/beta died down. The majority of the complaints centered around "I can't own all the heroes in a fast or cheap manner", but in the end the vast majority of players only really get deep into 1/4th of the hero pool tops so it was kind of a hollow cry that was more about innate gamer bias against most F2P models than it was about how much content they could actually devour.

Since the free rotation regularly provides access to most heroes every so often (sans the Murky/Abathur types), you can still get your 500g and experience said hero in a reasonable time frame that is soon to be even more reasonable due to expanding free week hero pool from 7 heroes to 10 heroes. I think the longer people play/played, they began to realize this and the fervor died down.

For Blizzard their issue is finding some sweet spot where people aren't initially turned off just by looking at the prices before getting more than a few games into HOTS. Whether that's ultimately lower prices, a more detailed explanation of just how much gold gain players get early and how that translates into hero ownership, or something else I don't know. No doubt it's a barrier to entry though. I just differ with some folks on whether by account level 40 the issue is really a mountain or just a mole hill.

I guess it depends on how much and how targeted you play. The regular player won't wait to have 2 bad dailies in his log to increase his chances for a good one, which is a dumb limiting way to play tbh (I did). The 500g is a great incentive to try out every hero but it can also be unfun with how much experience the game provides when you're just not good at a hero.
Sidenote: The most important part about the free hero rotation increasing is that it won't lead to as many mirror matches

Ultimately the gold gain doesn't make the price structure any better. 10$/€ are fine for a hero imo but not skins, and even though a lot of work went into them 15$/€ for legendary skins is ludicrous, not to mention mounts.
When you consider w/o buying a bundle buying a hero + skin + mount can easily cost you 20 to 30$/€ then there's an issue.
On the other hand the new maps are completely free so idk. I'm just at a point where I feel like I don't want to spend any more money on it and my hero pool still has some spots to fill.

Oh and for the love of whatever just make the 1 tutorial hero free.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think either actually does their job well enough to make them worth playing right now. If you want Morales healing Melee, don't make her walk next to them. Artanis is a character with basicly one button (W) that doesn't even work right until very late in the game.

 

[Alur]

Ultimately the gold gain doesn't make the price structure any better. 10$/€ are fine for a hero imo but not skins, and even though a lot of work went into them 15$/€ for legendary skins is ludicrous, not to mention mounts.
When you consider w/o buying a bundle buying a hero + skin + mount can easily cost you 20 to 30$/€ then there's an issue.
On the other hand the new maps are completely free so idk. I'm just at a point where I feel like I don't want to spend any more money on it and my hero pool still has some spots to fill.

I do agree with you on pretty much all of this, particularly the bolded. IIRC the mount + hero + skin bundles (like the Butcher or Raynor ones) were like $18-20 right? So yeah, that's a lot when you compare it to something else in the video game sphere.

I think they agree on legendary skins to be quite honest. I can't think of any other reason for them not to continue making them. I imagine they thought "this'll be cool, let's divide them up by rarity and charge more/less depending and we can churn out some cheap ones for quick money and then have a few highly detailed ones for die hards of that hero"...but then the demand for a $15 skin just wasn't there.

I'd be willing to bet the demand for a $10 skin isn't there beyond the initial 2-3 days of it's release in whatever bundle it comes in. They probably make the vast majority of their money off of the new hero bundles, then heroes in general, then mounts, and then whatever skins are on sale each week if I had to guess. I have no info to back that up though.

I don't think either actually does their job well enough to make them worth playing right now. If you want Morales healing Melee, don't make her walk next to them. Artanis is a character with basicly one button (W) that doesn't even work right until very late in the game.

I'd agree with you if we're talking strictly competitive.

But since we are all plebs pretty much anything works from my experience provided you know how to play it. The medic + Cho'Gall combo has been pretty brutal in diamond this past week, for example. He's like the perfect target.

 

[Strider]

In terms of pricing me and Alur have a pretty similar opinion I think.

HotS is expensive. No getting around that. If you started playing at launch or more recently there is basically no way you can keep up with the gold needed to get all the heroes. Especially if you take breaks or play casually.

But with that being said... You can easily get a good number of heroes early on and the ones you choose will probably be your favorites that you'd play more than the others anyway... So despite the high pricing you can still get excellent value and a lot of fun out of the game by never paying real money.

So basically in the grand scheme of things it's pretty fair.

Whatever tho I'm just one borderline whale that spends too much on both mobas that I play.

 

[xplicitone]

Welcome friend

Hello and thanks!

Check out this guide.

The best time to take camps is when you can cause a dilemma for the enemy.



Awesome! Think I've seen you post in Destiny or Dragonball Xenoverse threads here.

Yea Destiny for sure

 

[Auteezy]

I mean not every hero is going to be tier1 because that's just not possible and some heroes are just going to be bad that's normal, but if you know you are releasing a bad hero or niche style hero then price it as such maybe? Like to me Artanis is just a crappier sonya but hes new so he's expensive. And I can see how Medic can fit a certain niche paired up with like a Raynor or Valla or something with stimpack. Is the plan that every new hero is going to start at 10k gold, no matter how bad they are on release? Or are they just going to make heroes with less popular/known backgrounds the strongest ones like ETC.

My biggest issue with heroes anyway as a longtime blizzard game player is that Bald Jimmy was way cooler, and I have no attachment to diablo 3 classes like Nazeebo or Valla compared with diablo 2 Amazon/Necromancer and think that those are wayyyy cooler.

 

[Strider]

I mean not every hero is going to be tier1 because that's just not possible and some heroes are just going to be bad that's normal, but if you know you are releasing a bad hero or niche style hero then price it as such maybe?

I hate the idea of pricing a hero based on how good or bad they are... That's like the definition of pay 2 win.

So nah I think that's a terrible suggestion to price based on whether a hero is tier 1 or not.

 

[Auteezy]

I hate the idea of pricing a hero based on how good or bad they are... That's like the definition of pay 2 win.

So nah I think that's a terrible suggestion to price based on whether a hero is tier 1 or not.

but it seems like all heroes that are being released have been 10k. Can't they release heroes they know will be less popular cheaper? Isn't that how this stuff works.

 

[Strider]

but it seems like all heroes that are being released have been 10k. Can't they release heroes they know will be less popular cheaper? Isn't that how this stuff works.

That's not what you said.

You mentioned based on a hero being niche as well but you straight up said a hero should be cheaper if they aren't tier 1.

So yea if you wanna rephrase to where it's only based on the popularity of a hero then sure I'll agree...

 

[Alur]

Whatever tho I'm just one borderline whale that spends too much on both mobas that I play.

Wait...what? You play another moba? I didn't know and/or forgot. Which is it mister?

I mean not every hero is going to be tier1 because that's just not possible and some heroes are just going to be bad that's normal, but if you know you are releasing a bad hero or niche style hero then price it as such maybe?

It wouldn't make sense for Blizzard to do this. Balance changes. Heroes go up and down every 6 weeks when a patch rolls out. Like how you were talking about Nova...she's been in the dumpster since around January IIRC and now suddenly she's relevant again. She was 10k the whole time though because unlike most heroes who are dumpstered she remained very popular due to stealth + OH SHIT I CAN ONE SHOT PEOPLE + omg grills.

Is the plan that every new hero is going to start at 10k gold, no matter how bad they are on release?

Heroes are 15k at release, then they drop to 10k. And going back to your point on "how bad they are"...I really don't think they know or the majority of players really know when a hero launches. We usually find out after about 2 weeks.

People in this thread (us plebs) and people around the top teams in competitive heroes panned both Johanna and Leoric back-to-back...only for them to be basically the only two tanks used whenever possible for months in competitive games due to their strength. Everyone panned Kharazim the same way Medic is panned, but turns out he didn't suck at all. He's actually really good.

From their internals I think it's hard to gauge just how much impact a hero will have due to the other changes often implemented with that hero (patches) and how people react to them on live. And then they get all the noise from us that is 100% one way or the other skewing things as well.

Or are they just going to make heroes with less popular/known backgrounds the strongest ones like ETC.

I assume you're being facetious that Blizzard is intentionally making one hero "strong" over another for it's release, but if not the cases of Thrall and Jaina pretty much take care of that. Thrall came out OP pubstomper like Nova, got rekt and hasn't been heard from again til this patch a bit. Jaina came out with bugs and gimped, but eventually got buffed to where she has been a standard pick in HL and competitive play for months.

Don't think it has anything to do with who the hero is or what their lore was.

but it seems like all heroes that are being released have been 10k. Can't they release heroes they know will be less popular cheaper? Isn't that how this stuff works.

Not really, no. A standard price makes more sense.

If we were going based on popularity then every support should be like 4k cause pretty much no one wants to play most of them or play support in general. Warriors would be 7kish, maybe a few 10k's. Specialists would be 10k cause most people find them cool. Assassins would launch at 15k or more and stay that way because that's what 80% of the player base mains just like in any other class based game.

I don't think there's a ton of correlation on how popular a hero was in lore with how much it's played. I think 75% of that popularity is how strong is this hero right now regardless of who it actually is.

 

[Auteezy]

I just want more 2k gold options man

 

[Strider]

I just want more 2k gold options man

Nothing wrong with that. I feel you.

Wait...what? You play another moba? I didn't know and/or forgot. Which is it mister?
.

Dota 2. My cosmetic game on 10

 

[Alur]

I just want more 2k gold options man

Definitely.

Blizzard needs more price drops after the fact 100%. We get a new hero every 3 weeks but a price drop maybe every 6 and that isn't even necessarily a 10k hero getting dropped. The top end is super inflated now. Would love to see them do a blanket readjustment but that'll never happen I guess.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

How could you underestimate Johanna? I was in love with the character after my first game and had like an 80% winrate the first couple days with her. That was before I even read and saw with my own eyes how good Knight Takes Pawn was.

Leoric I just wasn't interested in at first, so I didn't even tr. It was funny watching dread being right about Leoric from the start though.

They should just make it a fixed price degradation, 15k the first 2 weeks, 10k the next month, 7.5k the rest of the year 2k from then on or something of the sort

 

[Auteezy]

Nothing wrong with that. I feel you.



Dota 2. My cosmetic game on 10

The new gambling for cosmetics stuff valve been doing is awful tbh. The old way was great and probably could work for hots too where you have the option of like buying a chest you open for a chance of cosmetics for 1 of 4-5 heroes, or you could just buy the set you wanted for ~$1 more than the price of the chest.

 

[Alur]

They should just make it a fixed price degradation, 15k the first 2 weeks, 10k the next month, 7.5k the rest of the year 2k from then on or something of the sort

I could dig something like this.

 

[Strider]

The new gambling for cosmetics stuff valve been doing is awful tbh. The old way was great and probably could work for hots too where you have the option of like buying a chest you open for a chance of cosmetics for like 4-5 heroes, or you could just buy the set you wanted for like $1 more than the price of the chest.

I haven't played since 6.84 because new patch looked all kinds of boring and awful as soon as I read the notes.

But yea I read about the new way they were handling the cosmetics and it sounded wack.

I usually just buy whatever I want straight from the marketplace tho

But basically every other Dota patch is good and that's when I play Dota and I play HotS in between those patches. Started playing HotS during 6.83

 

[Milly79]

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Dota 2 |OT|

...wait, am I doing it rite guys?

 

[Auteezy]

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Dota 2 |OT|

...wait, am I doing it rite guys?

next we can compare hots hero pricing model to leagues and complete the trifecta

 

[Alur]

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Dota 2 |OT|

...wait, am I doing it rite guys?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So the perpetrators group up thinking they can lessen their wrong by pointing out another.

Nice try, but we're onto you.

 

[Alur]

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Conspiracy Theories: ITT we find the truth |OT|

 

[brian!]

League does price degradation per champ release and they are all priced by release too

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Conspiracy Theories: ITT we find the truth |OT|

 

[Alur]

lol wat truth?

That some people in this thread like another Blizzard game so there is crossover and for whatever reason a few posts about it rustled your jimmies?

Or that the Alur is a bully meme gets great mileage?

Lol either way, seems silly.

 

[Auteezy]

lol wat truth?

That some people in this thread like another Blizzard game so there is crossover and for whatever reason a few posts about it rustled your jimmies?

Or that the Alur is a bully meme gets great mileage?

Lol either way, seems silly.

the only thing that rustles my jimmies is your late 90's coyotes logo

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| I Stream, You Stream, We All Stream for Ad Revenue

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Where Troll Characters are Top Tier

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| The Play's the Thing

Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Split Push in the Bush

 

[Alur]

the only thing that rustles my jimmies is your late 90's coyotes logo

You don't dig the kachina?

Spoiler

who is your team?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

lol wat truth?

That some people in this thread like another Blizzard game so there is crossover and for whatever reason a few posts about it rustled your jimmies?

Or that the Alur is a bully meme gets great mileage?

Lol either way, seems silly.

I don't really mind crossover, it was a snarky remark(s) to the thread being more about Overwatch than HoTS at the time. Nothing particularly wrong with that. Comes up every 3 to 6 months isn't particularly great mileage either.

Nor was it ever intended to be anything but silly.

 

[Auteezy]

You don't dig the kachina?

Spoiler

who is your team?

Jets

 

[Valus]

lol wat truth?

That some people in this thread like another Blizzard game so there is crossover and for whatever reason a few posts about it rustled your jimmies?

Or that the Alur is a bully meme gets great mileage?

Lol either way, seems silly.

why do you talk about yourself in the third person

 

[Alur]

Comes up every 3 to 6 months isn't particularly great mileage either.

Heh, maybe. It happened before you were posting in here I believe but you have referenced it though eh? That's p gud mileage.

Spoiler

gotta live up to my moniker so it gets mentioned more often

Jets

I guess that would explain it. My apologies. Could happen to Coyotes too though it seems less likely now than in the past. Would that be sweet justice?

why do you talk about yourself in the third person

Alur doesn't normally. Alur did in that sentence though.

 

[k1t4j]

Hey guys, so I recently started playing this game (started Monday last week) and I am enjoying it a lot.

I am currently playing with tychus because for some reason I really enjoy him and his kit . I got him raynor, valla, sonya and cho gall so far.

I am also sitting at 13k gold currently and level 25 and I have no idea what hero I should buy next, even after trying them in the shop.

Anyways I have two question for you guys:

- In every match up where there is an Arthanis and an Illidan they always feed, every single time it's ridiculous. What is up with that?

-Does the matchmaking get any better at higher levels or in ranked games? Sometimes we don't have a tank and 3 healers other times it's 4 assassins and a support it seems a bit fucked up.

I play on EU server btw.

 

[Turdburger]

- In every match up where there is an Arthanis and an Illidan they always feed, every single time it's ridiculous. What is up with that?

Melee assassins are hard to play and are rather team-dependent; this improves at higher skill levels

-Does the matchmaking get any better at higher levels or in ranked games?

nope

 

[Alavard]

-Does the matchmaking get any better at higher levels or in ranked games? Sometimes we don't have a tank and 3 healers other times it's 4 assassins and a support it seems a bit fucked up.

The match-making rules for role compositions are very simple.

No more than 3 Warriors.
No more than 4 Assassins.
No more than 2 Support.
No more than 2 Specialists.
No more than 3 Melee heroes.
And if one team has no support, the other team doesn't have a support.

And of course this is in addition to its attempt to match MMRs. These rules all get thrown out the window after either 6 or 10 min of not finding a group (not sure which it is anymore).

 

[brian!]

Id recommend getting illidan, you might find it more difficult to win consistently and he's harder for ppl starting out, but i think he's the most fun hero in the game and his kit is really unique too plus he's relatively cheap.

It's 10 min for the yoloq now

In general you should try out a hero during their free week before you purchase, there's also a try mode you can use for any hero but it's hard to gauge a hero off of that.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The first hero to get is obviously Jaina imo. She's one of the easiest heroes to learn but also one of the best and blowing up people is always fun. Unless you're planning to buy the starter pack.

Muradin as one of the cheapest warrior and no matter what Yoshi says he's fun. Jumping around throwing motherfucking stuns all day.

You haven't have played hots to its until you take rewind and do a double jump.

Spoiler

not serious but it looks hilarious