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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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A

Alur

Member
You can literally 100-50 (or 100-25 some squishies) a good portion of heroes by just lobbing out your shit and randomly hitting them. That's no ult, nothing.

If one, just one, hero dies in a team fight before your team gets blown out, that almost guarantees a second kill. If the second kill happens, it's just snowball city. It's your bae, I get it, but shit is stupid how easy it is to turn a fight with her once the first body falls compared to any other hero.
 
P

protonium

Member
I don't see anything wrong with Li-Ming wrecking face against TLV. Those fucks already reign supreme. Some heroes have obvious counters like that, or Tychus/Leo vs tanks.
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Yeah TLV are hard counter to PLENTY of heroes. The door needs to swing back sometimes.
 
A

Alur

Member
I was just using TLV as an example that happened just last night in a game we shouldn't have won. Shit happens w/ her constantly in brawl with all the deaths there too, for example. In regular matches it doesn't matter who she faces. One kill can easily lead to a quick snowball, particularly late, if your team is in any semblance still functional when that kill occurs.

I can't count the number of times I've got the first kill against a comp with Li-Ming and nearly secured a second and then the Li-Ming comp finally kills our tank or melee hero and then they just run roughshod over the rest of us.
 
M

Maledict

Member
protonium said:
She's really not. I don't even see her picked or banned often.
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She is the second most popular hero at every level of the game, by a long way - if you aren't seeing her in hero league something is up.

And my point wasn't that she's OP - she isn't, and her win number demonstrates that. It's that she's extremely unfun, and the way she works creates an unfun environment. One person on your team making a mistake means your team gets wiped, and that sucks. No-one else has that carry potential, and it exacerbates the difficulty you face when someone on the team makes positioning mistakes.

She is very much like cancer chromie in that respect - it's not that she's overpowered, it's just that she's uninformed to play against (and her popularity means she is in almost every game). As Alur says, last night what kept happening in every game was that we'd get the first kill, be about to get our second, when 'Li-ming' happened and everyone died. That's what was pissing me off so much and led me to posting here.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
QM and unranked queues are 120-180 seoncds. Same as always for me. Maybe at master and GM it's bad but at low diamond it's fine
 
P

protonium

Member
People might be avoiding QM because of fucking Samuro, like I am. Whoever came up with Shukuchi needs an arrow to the knee and that's not even his biggest problem. Bolt of the Storm on a 12s cooldown at level 13? Sounds legit!
 
Mengy

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Milly79 said:
Queues have gotten a lot worse lately
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I tried yesterday to finish up my two Brawl matches that I have left, but I never could get into a match. Sat in the queue over half a dozen times, for minutes each one, never did get into a game. Went back to Civ 6 in between trying, I'll try again today but that was very odd and super frustrating. :(


I did eventually play a few AI co-op matches just to finish my daily quests, nearly instant queues there, lol.
 
A

Alur

Member
Crazy thing is it's not even the best talent on the tier if you went Illusion Master according to the pros. But in regular play it's ridiculous.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
He's a samurai ninja. He has no sustain, he should be able to blink and be invisible all the time. Having played him up to level 8 solo queue I think his only blatantly OP talents are the Illusion Master ult, the +30% damage out of stealth, and the infinite windwalk at 20. Holy shit at those talents.
 
A

Alur

Member
He'll be an interesting case regarding how they hit him.

People are pretty split on what makes him OP (his insane survivability or his burst), so I wonder which they'll hit. I imagine some talents will get removed. Maybe they hit both.

I wouldn't be shocked if CD's are upped (maybe Wind Walk?) and Illusion damage is nerfed across the board.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
They're going to do small number tuning first, and maybe nerf illusion master is my guess. They have to be careful nerfing samuro because he will be straight up worthless if his damage is bad. I really don't think they'd remove any of the talents, if you look at hotslogs his talent picks are pretty diverse (actually he might be the most diverse new hero I've ever seen). They might tone some down at best. Like I said, the obvious problem talents are the teleport (idk how you'd nerf this thing because the range is already short), the +30% damage out of stealth, and the lvl 20 infinite stealth.
 
A

Alur

Member
scoobs said:
the obvious problem talents are the teleport (idk how you'd nerf this thing because the range is already short), the +30% damage out of stealth, and the lvl 20 infinite stealth.
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You remove it, just like they did Li-Ming's orb pull she had when she was released.

It's a superfluous talent that makes him way better than he should be, but he's already so survivable it's not even necessary. He'll still be plenty good without it or with it completely reworked into something new.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
ehhhhhh, I think a samurai blademaster should probably have some form of blink. Besides, that would leave only 2 talent options at that tier.
 
A

Alur

Member
Why should he have a blink? I don't get what that has to do with anything, though I didn't play Warcraft.

They can easily add something else to the tree, they've done it plenty.

So long as that blink is there it's going to be heavily picked.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Alur said:
Why should he have a blink? I don't get what that has to do with anything, though I didn't play Warcraft.

They can easily add something else to the tree, they've done it plenty.

So long as that blink is there it's going to be heavily picked.
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It is good, but the other windwalk talent at that tier is extremely good too.
 
A

Alur

Member
Oh, no doubt. The AA pros seem to be liking the create a mirror image at your spot talent, since it can be used as another illusion to Illusion Master to. The other one is pretty popular too on ladder but it's the only one I haven't tried.

They are all good, but that blink is pretty insane for uncoordinated play.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Milly79 said:
Hey man. The Paragon thread could use you.
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I didn't even know there was one. i've been relegated to reddit. gross
sick.gif
 
A

Alur

Member
Can't believe you are even associating with the unwashed masses in this thread. To what do we owe the pleasure? Have you tried brawl yet?

EDIT: Also, come play w/ us again. There's only one MOBA we recognize 'round these parts. Also, try out Battlerite.
 
I

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Brawl has saved this game. Insanely fast queues, really good gold rewards with stims.. gold/time return is insane. I've done at least 40 of them..probably more.
 
E

Evolution of Metal

Member
Greymane is no Rengar when it comes to tankyness, but instant-kill potential is there. Have to practice restrain when it comes to jumping on people.

Still not happy about the zerg t-rex not being an optimal choice :(

I have also noticed that q times can hit 5 minutes. What is up with that? Did OW and Legion decimate HotS playerbase?
 
K

kirblar

Member
Evolution of Metal said:
Greymane is no Rengar when it comes to tankyness, but instant-kill potential is there. Have to practice restrain when it comes to jumping on people.

Still not happy about the zerg t-rex not being an optimal choice :(

I have also noticed that q times can hit 5 minutes. What is up with that? Did OW and Legion decimate HotS playerbase?
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Legion. Has a huge time investment right now.
 
K

Kioshen

Member
Well Alarak has made the worst first impression on me when I tried it him out this week-end. Normally I just pick up and go but this one wow I just can't wrap my head around his kit and how it gels together. Been dying left and right during thankfully an AI game but still I think I regret plunking 10k gold on him. I should probably stop trying to force myself to play melee assassins.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Kioshen said:
Well Alarak has made the worst first impression on me when I tried it him out this week-end. Normally I just pick up and go but this one wow I just can't wrap my head around his kit and how it gels together. Been dying left and right during thankfully an AI game but still I think I regret plunking 10k gold on him. I should probably stop trying to force myself to play melee assassins.
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He's about pulling someone slightly out of position WAY out of position. Very difficult to use solo, I think, but amazing in coordinated play where you have the follow up guaranteed.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Kioshen said:
Well Alarak has made the worst first impression on me when I tried it him out this week-end. Normally I just pick up and go but this one wow I just can't wrap my head around his kit and how it gels together. Been dying left and right during thankfully an AI game but still I think I regret plunking 10k gold on him. I should probably stop trying to force myself to play melee assassins.
Click to expand...
Play him like you would play Thrall. Poke with E a lot and in team fights look for big W's to set up kills. Charge in when enemy is retreating or you can start an ambush that will likely end in your favor. Don't charge in unless you're sure of yourself.
 
K

Kioshen

Member
kirblar said:
He's about pulling someone slightly out of position WAY out of position. Very difficult to use solo, I think, but amazing in coordinated play where you have the follow up guaranteed.
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scoobs said:
Play him like you would play Thrall. Poke with E a lot and in team fights look for big W's to set up kills. Charge in when enemy is retreating or you can start an ambush that will likely end in your favor. Don't charge in unless you're sure of yourself.
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This is all stupid hard to do in AI games so that probably explains why I didn't do so well. Didn't his E as a poking tool and more of a I need health thingy but it makes sense. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and try him in QM.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Kioshen said:
This is all stupid hard to do in AI games so that probably explains why I didn't do so well. Didn't his E as a poking tool and more of a I need health thingy but it makes sense. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and try him in QM.
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Oh, yeah, he's not the faceroll type that does well in AI, lol.
 
A

Alavard

Member
I'm hoping Varian Wrynn is indeed the next hero (obviously we know he's coming soon, given the leaker from 4chan and the datamined title screen, just not how soon). I'm really hankering for a new melee warrior.
 
S

Star Falcon

Member
Alavard said:
I'm hoping Varian Wrynn is indeed the next hero (obviously we know he's coming soon, given the leaker from 4chan and the datamined title screen, just not how soon). I'm really hankering for a new melee warrior.
Click to expand...

I think they'll announce a few new characters at Blizzcon so he could be one of them... although i think a Diablo character is definitely on the cards given the 20th anniversary.
 
A

Alur

Member
My queue times have been the same for a while now on multiple accounts. I chalk it up to the continual addition of matchmaking qualifiers/changes more than anything. I don't think the population has been hurt all that much, especially not this far away from Legion's launch.
 
A

Alavard

Member
Star Falcon said:
I think they'll announce a few new characters at Blizzcon so he could be one of them... although i think a Diablo character is definitely on the cards given the 20th anniversary.
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Yeah, I'd say it's a given he'll be announced at Blizzcon. I just specifically meant I hope he's the very next hero released, order-wise.
 
A

Alavard

Member
kirblar said:
Yeah, he's perfect as the Tracer-style pack-in.
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If by 'pack-in' you mean comes free with preorder or purchase of special edition, I'm not sure that would make much sense. If diablo 4 is indeed revealed at Blizzcon, that's an absolute minimum of 2 years away. Knowing Blizzard, potentially much much more. That would be a long time to wait to get a hero announced now, and presumably releasing in a month or two.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Alavard said:
If by 'pack-in' you mean comes free with preorder or purchase of special edition, I'm not sure that would make much sense. If diablo 4 is indeed revealed at Blizzcon, that's an absolute minimum of 2 years away. Knowing Blizzard, potentially much much more. That would be a long time to wait to get a hero announced now, and presumably releasing in a month or two.
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Tracer took nearly a year to come out.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Alavard said:
I'm hoping Varian Wrynn is indeed the next hero (obviously we know he's coming soon, given the leaker from 4chan and the datamined title screen, just not how soon). I'm really hankering for a new melee warrior.
Click to expand...

I really hope not to be honest. We are awash with melee characters currently, having had two melee assassin and another bruiser in the last 6 weeks alone. Right now the meta feels very melee dominated, either by melee assassins or double tank compositions.

Given the abject failure that is chromie, and the nerds to Kael, it really feels like we need some more ranged dps right now.
 
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