Support NeoGAF

[kirblar]

I don't see ANY reason for a limited map pool in quick match/unranked/HL. The selling point of this game is it's maps, why would you want to limit them?

I understand removing some if you want to make changes to them ala haunted mines, but what's the benefit otherwise?

There are way too many goddamn maps in the pool. New players are completely overwhelmed. Even returning players are overwhelmed.

Playing Vs AI you see tons of people that literally don't know where to go now on the maps. Put simply: you learn by repetition. Right now there's 0 repetition.

And the Mines rework didn't work. The map is still bad. 2 Lane maps in general aren't working.

 

[scoobs]

I could buy the argument it's too much for new comers to learn, but if you're a seasoned player and confused by the different maps I'm a little disappointed in you lol

 

[kirblar]

I could buy the argument it's too much for new comers to learn, but if you're a seasoned player and confused by the different maps I'm a little disappointed in you lol

11.

11 is way too many. Players learn through repetition, and this offers zero repetition.

 

[scoobs]

I guess my opinion is that of the minority's, but I am not confused by anything about any map because I've played them all dozens of times each. But I realize most people haven't, so fair enough.

 

[Maledict]

I guess my opinion is that of the minority's, but I am not confused by anything about any map because I've played them all dozens of times each. But I realize most people haven't, so fair enough.

People play the same single map thousands of times in Dota and LoL, and the learning curve of those is insane. I am still learning intricate details on maps that have been in the game for a year already. I'm sorry but dozens of times isn't enough to begin to get to grips with maps in terms of bushes, merc timings, objectives etc - and the number of maps prevents that learning happening in the first place (like I said - less than 20 games on warhead sinceit released, playing every single day).

There's way too many maps, and some of them are just bad maps that need removing. Plus WHY they brought back haunted mines is utterly beyond me.

 

[scoobs]

I love haunted mines, new and old. There's nothing wrong with the idea behind the map, the problem is Sylvanas trait is broken as fuck

 

[brian!]

https://youtu.be/oIIxlgcuQRU

I feel like the maps are pretty alright and there isnt much reason to ban them off a mode that is imbalanced by design

 

[Ketch]

I can understand limiting the map pool in competitive and even maybe in HL on a per season type thing...... like it might be a neat idea if like HGC league or whatever it's called was like 5 specific maps and that HL season was also the same 5 maps, that could be a really cool way to help people really learn the intricacies of maps.


But in QM and unranked the maps are fine, new HM is about 6 million times better then the old one, and none of the maps are very complicated..... go to the flashy icon and do the thing is all new or returning players need to know. There's really nothing sophisticated about them that has significant impact on QM outcome.... like the outcome of QM games is something yo be concerned about anyway. even things like what is the better solo lane is kind of irrelevant outside of draft modes really.

i feel like the biggest learning curve for new players is xp mechanics and of course the heroes. I haven't bothered to check out the new player experience in a very long time, but they don't explain xp anywhere as far as I know.

That being said I wouldn't mind if they removed curse, dk, booty bay, and garden to significantly rework them like they did for haunted mines. Not that they need it as bad, but they just so damn generic at this point that they kind of aren't as much fun to play on as the new diablo and Starcraft maps. They should full commit to make them Warcraft maps and give them an art and mechanics pass.

 

[brian!]

Xp mechanics for sure the most needlessly opaque thing when thinking about the effect it has on the game

 

[Alavard]

I really doubt anything will happen with Curse or Dshire. Competitive players seem to love those two.

 

[KevMan1815]

They could drop Dragonshire and I'd be completely happy. I hate that map.

 

[Milly79]

They should do just a plain ass map where there is no objective. I think I'd enjoy that. Maybe not.

 

[Ketch]

They should do just a plain ass map where there is no objective. I think I'd enjoy that. Maybe not.

think of how long the match would take.


after having played a bunch of other mobas recently, the #1 best thing with a bullet that hots has is 20 min matches. I can play 3 games plus in the time it takes to play one match of dota or league. it so short that losing aint no thing, where as losing in league or dota is just soul crushing by comparison.

i think that after 1 50 minute loss you'd never want to play on that map again.

 

[Dreavus]

think of how long the match would take.


after having played a bunch of other mobas recently, the #1 best thing with a bullet that hots has is 20 min matches. I can play 3 games plus in the time it takes to play one match of dota or league. it so short that losing aint no thing, where as losing in league or dota is just soul crushing by comparison.

i think that after 1 50 minute loss you'd never want to play on that map again.

Yup, short match length is a huge plus for this game.



I do think it would be amusing to see the loading screen for that map though.

"Destroy the enemy core!" "..." "That's it!"

 

[Kioshen]

They should do just a plain ass map where there is no objective. I think I'd enjoy that. Maybe not.

They made that map and it was the original aram map with the spider theme (lost cavern iirc ?). They made another one for the diablo event and it was definitely more enjoyable just because there were merc camps to fight over as a secondary objective. It made the push/pull more complex than just smash your face in until one concedes.

 

[brian!]

Any map w/o an objective would need kind of extensive rebalancing (all pushers would be very valuable, buildings should have less health, etc.), but i mean big firework objectives are kind of the gimmick for this game i doubt theyd ever stray from that

 

[Maledict]

So just looking at the casters for HGC, and Khaldor is the only Euro. that seems odd given how Khalaris and Grubby are usually two of their most popular casters. Given they seem to need to live in the states for 6 months I wonder if the others couldn't make the commitment?

(Does seem slightly odd to have the teams playing in Europe but the casters forced to sit in a studio in the USA).

EDIT: Triksylr had to quit his job to become a caster!

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Grubby is casting the open league and Kaelaris mentioned it was a split from both parties, he's also married and has dogs and everything.

He still wants to cast events far as I can tell. I guess they want to do so some serious production and that's why Trikslyr had to quit and Khaldor has to move.

 

[Alur]

EDIT: Triksylr had to quit his job to become a caster!

To me this is pretty crazy. Thought Trik was pretty good at what he did...and on the flip side, casting is hardly a lucrative career decision. I'm assuming he'll be allowed back if it goes south or someone better comes along? I don't get that TBH from his point of view.

He still wants to cast events far as I can tell. I guess they want to do so some serious production and that's why Trikslyr had to quit and Khaldor has to move.

I'm honestly kind of pleasantly surprised by this news.

I thought we were getting Dread/Kaeyoh casting out of their apartment and Jake/JHow casting out of Jake's house on green screens for NA for the whole series which would've tarnished it quite a bit IMO. The fact that they are doing a real studio cast will make it feel that much more professional IMO.

Jake keeps losing. JHow left out. Dunktrain left out. Grubby probably couldn't due his family. Kaelaris is out for whatever reason. Lots of interesting names left on the cutting room floor.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

We have to look at these like the qualifiers. The number of events seems similar and that's where they'll get gigs again. Jhow and Jake are casting the open division as well, for some reason on jake's channel and not arcane8. Dude really didn't completely plan this through.

Regionals got replaced by HGC essentially and the casters split between open division and league. Region clashes replace world championships.

 

[Alur]

Casting the open division is akin to being put on ESPN 8 or something to that effect, though. The viewership is gonna be nonexistent. They'll still be involved in the bigger events, I'd assume, but it's a blow for sure.

Regardless, having a real professional cast is way better than I expected. In no way did I think they'd shell out for those guys to move to California to provide a cast after all the other money they're gonna spend, but it makes sense and I'm glad they did. May as well go all in and do it right and see what happens.

 

[Kioshen]

This is what happen when you get a bunch of brian!s in a full on team fight over 40 seconds ... nobody dies :/.

 

[brian!]

I feel like having a consistent blizz controllable studio is like a base necesary thing, and i was expecting it to be lan in cali like lcs instead of an online tournament

The recognizable na casters left out of hgc are imo inferior to gilly and dread + khaldor seems like the only eu caster who is all in and also in a situation to uproot, i just dont understand how trikslyr ended up being an eu caster (if i had to guess maybe he was one of the few na ppl who actually kept tabs on the eu scene, but that's not a hard thing to cram before hgc starts)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

IIRC he did the Nexusgames before Blizzcon and has been moving in a caster role for some time. I assume no one prominent from EU was ready for the commitment and that's why they asked him. You have to be ready to cast at odd hours and all that.

 

[Maledict]

IIRC he did the Nexusgames before Blizzcon and has been moving in a caster role for some time. I assume no one prominent from EU was ready for the commitment and that's why they asked him. You have to be ready to cast at odd hours and all that.

I think it's more the fact you have to uproot and move to California for 6 months. Neither Grubby nor Kaelaris are able to do that, so that does leave us a bit thin on the ground (although what about the giant tall german guy who casts?)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

that's what I meant with commitment, oh yeah there's Kendric.

At his age I'm pretty sure he gotta have a serious day job.

 

[brian!]

This is what happen when you get a bunch of brian!s in a full on team fight over 40 seconds ... nobody dies :/.

nobody dies is such a lovely phrase to read

 

[scoobs]

I'm weirdly excited to watch HGC, and I've never been super into heroes esports.

 

[brian!]

hell yeah
really excited for gfe vs. nvt on that sunday
back to watching the game instead of playing it

 

[Milly79]

like u even play brian

 

[brian!]

ive played like 7 games since last week man
that's like 3.5 hours of hardc0re gaming

 

[Alur]

7 games = 3.5 hours? Some long ass games breh.

 

[Dice]

Mages best brawl ever

 

[brian!]

dont forget queue times, that's where i have to focus the most

 

[Orochinagis]

Queue times are like super long, ranked queue too

 

[Milly79]

Mages best brawl ever

Oh boy

 

[brian!]

i liked it, just needs less nazeebo

muh rankings for hgc
1. tempo/nvt (i think nvt is better, tempo has recent intl experience + nvt looked bad during qualifiers)
2. gfe
cuz they are probably working hard after bad recent performance
3. bstep/no tomorrow
i used to rate no tomorrow higher, but bstep picked up mac and dropped glau so
4. superstars, freedom, chu

 

[Ketch]

Mages best brawl ever

it's just QM

 

[Alur]

It really is just QM with multiples. So QM if they applied the OG Overwatch ruleset to it.

 

[scoobs]

They just need to find a way to cut the game lengths down across all brawls (except the Punisher Arena type game modes) and they'd be great. I don't see the point of full 20-25 minute brawls... its totally counter to the idea of them

Played some Tracer for the first time in like 6 months, and totally forgot how cancer she is. Requires like practically no skill to destroy people, good times!

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

muh rankings for hgc

1. gfe
2. nvt
3. tempo
4. no tomorrow, superstars, team 8 (I guess that's chu), bstep
5. freedom

Spoiler

half a wishlist

 

[Milly79]

Jake actually got THH up on iTunes the day after!

It's surprisingly good. Jake still sucks as always. I feel he tries way too damn hard to be edgy, or hipster-ish? Not sure how to describe this. Just saying shit like: get rekt nerd! P R O D U C T I O N! And there was some other stuff he constantly says I'm forgetting.

Kendric is a damn good guest as well as Jhow. The discussions are on point and are much better then when he has pros on.

Kendric and Dunk seem to think ZJ is not very good and requires more to stand out. I don't feel that way in our level of play, but I don't think he's UP or OP. He's a pretty balanced hero.

 

[Ketch]

Jake actually got THH up on iTunes the day after!

It's surprisingly good. Jake still sucks as always. I feel he tries way too damn hard to be edgy, or hipster-ish? Not sure how to describe this. Just saying shit like: get rekt nerd! P R O D U C T I O N! And there was some other stuff he constantly says I'm forgetting.

Kendric is a damn good guest as well as Jhow. The discussions are on point and are much better then when he has pros on.

Kendric and Dunk seem to think ZJ is not very good and requires more to stand out. I don't feel that way in our level of play, but I don't think he's UP or OP. He's a pretty balanced hero.

I haven't watched the show yet, but yea I think ZJ is somewhere between around fine to good, and then becomes great at 20. I don't think you would pick him above valla for AA damage. But maybe you would pick him above everybody else. Even tychus.

 

[Maledict]

I can't see any world where I'd pick ZJ above Tychus right now. I think Tychus is the number one sustained damage ranged assassin in the game, and he impacts on the draft and team comps like no other hero (try running two non-mobile tanks against him and see what fun you have!).

Zul'Jins weakness is his huge lack of mobility. Guillotine is awful, Tazdingo is a lot of fun, but ultimately he's extremely easy to catch out of position and kill. I don't think he's particularly weak, just nothing special and in a crowded field he doesn't stand out much. Only change I would make would be to make regeneration talent at 13 baseline.

 

[scoobs]

He does way more AA damage in bursts than anyone else can, thats for sure. I think it will take some time before he becomes a staple in the meta but it seems inevitable to me with how much damage he pours out. Just going to take some sick korean plays before we see it happen I think.

I could definitely see his Q build become a staple on Battlefield of Eternity for immortal burning purposes. Anyone tried that yet? Its crazy.

 

[Maledict]

Weirdly enough last time I checked battlefield was his worse map, which seems totally counter to how you would think it should be.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Would you pick him over Greymane on Battlefield if that was your intention?

 

[scoobs]

Would you pick him over Greymane on Battlefield if that was your intention?

Tough to say cuz I'm not sure what the armor buffs mean for Greymane yet. ZJ definitely does more DPS

 

[brian!]

Spoiler

half a wishlist

Same

I can't see any world where I'd pick ZJ above Tychus right now. I think Tychus is the number one sustained damage ranged assassin in the game, and he impacts on the draft and team comps like no other hero (try running two non-mobile tanks against him and see what fun you have!).

Zul'Jins weakness is his huge lack of mobility. Guillotine is awful, Tazdingo is a lot of fun, but ultimately he's extremely easy to catch out of position and kill. I don't think he's particularly weak, just nothing special and in a crowded field he doesn't stand out much. Only change I would make would be to make regeneration talent at 13 baseline.

Yeah the heal on move should really be part of the base move. Agree tychus leaps and bounds more valuable than zj

Zj is good at putting dmg on obj., but he sucks on boe because why would anyone race him instead of claiming the free kill

 

[Maledict]

Tough to say cuz I'm not sure what the armor buffs mean for Greymane yet. ZJ definitely does more DPS

My problem with him on battlefield is the lack of escapes. He does insane damage, but he's always at low health and that map is a flanking, ganking nightmare. That might be why he does so poorly on it - because one stray orb from a li-Ming will kill him.