Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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Valla way better she has in the bag nukes, mobility, waveclear, ults that actually help the team, burst, auriel synergy, the list goes on
 
I think ZJ out damages tychus by a lot, in the early game especially... like zj q + 2-3 autos does the same as tychus all in. Odin is far better, and maybe mid/late game tychus is better or maybe tied. ZJ damage is just insane. E just hits so much harder.

The thing that I think puts zj above tychus in my mind is tychus Q and minigun requires so much commitment.
 
He doesn't outdamage him on tanks when Tychus trait is running, and post 13 Tychus becomes a tanking monster with the self heal.

(Tychus has SO MUCH health).
 
Maledict said:
He doesn't outdamage him on tanks when Tychus trait is running, and post 13 Tychus becomes a tanking monster with the self heal.

(Tychus has SO MUCH health).
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I'd guess ZJ still out damages even on tanks. With his Q on someone he's AAing for 500 at like level 10
 
I think I'm heading in a good direction when team chat explodes in cheers when I pull off a max distance Artanis swap amongst traffic to win a team fight. Bruisers are starting to grow on me which is surprising since I don't usually like being in the thick of things. Probably because they are overtuned but Artanis and Dehaka are pretty fun right now.
 
Yeah dehaka is pretty overtuned atm, but I think any nerfs will put him back into the unplayable territory. I mean was he really that bad back then or did people not have him figured out?
 
At the same time he's not always a must pick hero, and his win rate isn't out of control, so nerfs right now would probably really turn people off from playing him.
 
Nah he's map specific + if you want a warrior solo lane, but goddamn he's good in those situations

Doesnt need a nerf, we are in a warrior heavy meta atm
 
scoobs said:
I'd guess ZJ still out damages even on tanks. With his Q on someone he's AAing for 500 at like level 10
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Yea. It is fucking insane. If tychus gets good value on his quest he can be even or maybe ahead, but even if he's ahead he's gotta commit the D and stay on someone, where as ZJ just autos them a couple times.


And yea Tychus probably wins on the health department, especially with Odin up, but ZJ has almost as much health, like it's very comparable except for zj having to use his trait.


I think that we will zj a lot once he hits competitive. Ban valla, pick zj, force the ZJ tychus matchup and I think ZJ is favorable in that match up. Alternatively, I think maybe we will see valla zj match ups and zj will get shit on and people will think he's a bad hero and then Korea will show everyone the way.


Also, I wonder how greymane is now after the armor thing. Does it mean anything? I tried some arthas and his armor thing is actually pretty good combined with block at lvl 1.

Also, I'm pretty sure the dehaka talent is now -10 armor instead of 15.
 
Dehaka was always good I remember BKB mentioning on THH that with OG primal swarm it needed 1 hit on every minion of a wave for a complete clear and advocating that talent way ahead of the curve on that and they used him in a tournament, Team Liquid was just bad.

They only have to tune down his waveclear some more, if the recent nerf to Primal Swarm wasn't enough. The other option is to finally fix Leoric's waveclear to be on par.
 
Well I think I meant it more like he will get picked in competitive because he's new and people will try to make him work, and that he will work better then expected.... except for when he's picked against valla, so maybe he will look bad at first. Because people will be like, well we didn't get valla let's try our ZJ thing and it won't work.


But I think he will be similar to lunara and greymane in the sense of like, well this hero is just not amazing like people think the top meta heroes are, but then he actually just does a shit ton of damage and that's actually very valuable it just needs a slight change in approach to the draft/strategy.
 
My prediction is falstad picks
In hgc, early on at least, comps should mainly be tried and true stuff from scrims so if zj is showing up in scrims i can see him showing up in hgc as a test
 
Ketch said:
Yea. It is fucking insane. If tychus gets good value on his quest he can be even or maybe ahead, but even if he's ahead he's gotta commit the D and stay on someone, where as ZJ just autos them a couple times.


And yea Tychus probably wins on the health department, especially with Odin up, but ZJ has almost as much health, like it's very comparable except for zj having to use his trait.


I think that we will zj a lot once he hits competitive. Ban valla, pick zj, force the ZJ tychus matchup and I think ZJ is favorable in that match up. Alternatively, I think maybe we will see valla zj match ups and zj will get shit on and people will think he's a bad hero and then Korea will show everyone the way.


Also, I wonder how greymane is now after the armor thing. Does it mean anything? I tried some arthas and his armor thing is actually pretty good combined with block at lvl 1.

Also, I'm pretty sure the dehaka talent is now -10 armor instead of 15.
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Um, Tychus has 500 more health than Zul'Jin. At level 1.

Zul'Jin is 1950, Tychus is 2410. Tychus health is *insane* - he has more than most bruisers and even a couple of tanks, and his self healing at 13 is hilarious. He absolutely beats zul'jin in a duel once he hits 13. Plus he has an amazing protection talent at 7, whilst Zul'jin doesn't have anything like that at all - and Zul'jin doesn't have a dodge or manoeuvrability talent either.

I mean, I think Zul'Jin is fun, and not a bad hero - but Tychus is the best ranged assassin in the game. Tychus beats Zul'jin hands down when duelling except between level 10 to 13 (Taz'Dingo, before Tychus has self-heal). Tychus has far more useful heroics, longer damage range with grenade, significant ability damage, and the ability to destroy tanks which Zul'jin doesn't have.

Now, they might all be lying and covering leet strats, but none of the pros I've seen stream thinks he's that amazing, and several have said specifically "why pick him when Tychus is available". Of course, Tychus isn't often available so you will see him.

You're right, Dehaka's talent is -10% now.
 
Ketch said:
Just in general?


I haven't been keeping up with the meta so I guess I really don't know anything.

I know bloodlust is cancer. That's about it.
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Yeah falstad hard counters the majority of meta ults and global keeps you from being drawn into team fights

Zj cant touch tychus in a 1v1 unless the tychus is bad or standing in melee range for the sure slow from zj, but even then one grenade is a free disengage
 
It's far too early to say if ZJ is a good hero or not. It took like 6 months before people found a use for Dehaka. I think the damage potential alone means you can't write him off. It's just absurd.
 
Def too early, we just sharing impressions tho
In terms of design, to me they've created a character who will either be op or whatever, his kit doesnt really have any middle ground.

Dehaka saw success early (erho had some amazing games with him for example), but he wasnt heavily suitable until the meta let him back in, he was used for stunlock at release
 
scoobs said:
It's far too early to say if ZJ is a good hero or not. It took like 6 months before people found a use for Dehaka. I think the damage potential alone means you can't write him off. It's just absurd.
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Don't get me wrong, I do think he'll see Pro play. I just think Tychus is a monster... ;-)
 
scoobs said:
You're not wrong there. I can't believe he hasn't seen nerfs.
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More than anything, it feels like his health is an issue. I get away with shit on him that no other ranged could possibly survive. not only does he have an utterly stupid health pool (500 health more than Zul'Jin at level 1, more health than Valla at level 20 when he's level 10), but he also has 3 really good resistant granting talents, and the option of taking an utterly ludicrous self heal at 13. I've had games where I've been healing more than the damage I'm taking versus various warriors.
 
I had a thought that another thing they could do with Tychus is reduce his base damage, but buff the bonus from his trait. My hopeful outcome would be him doing the same damage to tanks while dealing a bit less to non-tanks, but I'm not sure if that could be done mathematically.
 
He's really good but i dont think he really needs a nerf. Maybe on minigun heal

Like to me his value is skyrocketing because of how many strong warriors and melees are out and etc is less of an in the bag pick, he'll still die out of position and to cc
 
My gold level brain loves the idea of Dehaka, but I have difficulty pulling it off. Obviously, I'm missing something if he's considered overtuned right now. Any tips?
 
I dunno if he is overtuned but the 3 main strengths he currently holds is his ability to play aggressive in the solo lane (because of his passive and his ability to fountain and burrow back), his ability to break formation via flanks, and his waveclear, if you focus on these strengths you will probably be succesful. He's poor at peeling and protection but can be ok at it if the enemy misplays, which is pretty often. Find the middle ground between trades (which he usually wins if they stand and fight) and being too deep. He can be the only warrior on your team but it kind of relies on your team being cognizant of what he can and cant do and adjusting, so in more unorganized play it's not bad to buffer in another warrior lkke arthas

Oh, and this goes for any hero w/ a global/waveclear, strive to aggressively keep your lane pushed in if it's a situation where they cant freeze and deny exp (top lane @ towers for example is not great for mindlessly pushing in), since it gives you time for a free rotation and makes them have to choose between losing the wave and following you
 
I think tychus only real issue is the minigun quest combined with the heal, it can get really out of control. They could adjust the quest to balance him I feel.

I think zj does way too much damage to not see play.
 
It's purely single target tho and he has to all in on precarious positioning to put dmg out...maybe if he retained the low cd tazdingo but there are too many meta things that poop on him currently.

Like in my head if you're asking your team to pick him up you are asking them to give up on picking a ranged with waveclear + asking them to all in on your dmg (when there are far better choices like illidan who can control the engage/disengage of the enemy team for example), and that's what i always come back to w/r/t his design, it will either be worth it or not worth it, and there are a lot of ways right now to make it not worth it

This all my opinion ofc, i dont even own him.
 
More from thh:

Jhow thinks Tomster is going to be the "breakout" star/best player in NA in sense of how Rich was last year. Dunk disagreed.

They all pretty much agreed a sleep/sap would be a great cc to add. NO.

They also questioned if a combo system could be added to the game, but also mentioned the difficulty in doing so.
 
Milly79 said:
More from thh:

Jhow thinks Tomster is going to be the "breakout" star/best player in NA in sense of how Rich was last year. Dunk disagreed.

They all pretty much agreed a sleep/sap would be a great cc to add. NO.

They also questioned if a combo system could be added to the game, but also mentioned the difficulty in doing so.
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Isn't what Void Prison type of effects already do?
 
Maledict said:
No, sleep / sap effects are those which completely disable a hero but instantly break as soon as the target takes any damage.
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Milly79 said:
No? Sleep/sap would be broken on damage. Void prison is a stasis.
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OIC. I guess they like Ana from overwatch.

Orochinagis said:
Got placed on Silver II, is that good?

Why malfurion is getting banned everytime?
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Depends on what you define as good. The big groups goes as follows : Bronze < Silver < Gold < Platinium < Diamond < Master < Grand Master. Most people on the bell curve land in Silver - Gold.

Malfurion is very good at the moment numbers wise compared to other healers and easy to play. He's a safe ban when you don't want/know what to ban on a specific map.
 
Sleep would be really difficult to balance in this game unless they did it like dota, or made it an ult i guess

If the slow was on zuljin's q instead of w he'd be top tier
 
brian! said:
Sleep would be really difficult to balance in this game unless they did it like dota, or made it an ult i guess

If the slow was on zuljin's q instead of w he'd be top tier
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I would imagine sap as one of a rogues ultimates.... what would the other one be? Slice and dice?


Passive as poison or stealth with the other being an ability

Then you need sinister strike and eviscerate, and there's your chance for a watered down combo system with these two abilities.

Head crack, backstab, Sprint and vanish could be talents

I just hope she's not perma invis. It's not very roguey, it's hard to balance, and it's not very fun to play against.
 
i dunno much about rogues but i think an activatable passive that's like samuro's tele windwalk could be good, but I'm thinking the passive will be backstab...can they even code something like that into this engine? if they do i hope they make the animation a bit bloody like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbALVIXKehI

she'll have a sustain skill since she's probably a squishy melee assassin

some sort of poison for sure...like maybe an auto attack reset skill that slows on her q
fan of knives? i think she needs an aoe, but they might save that for maiev

perma invis would be ridiculous for sure, not necessarily for it's power but does blizz really want to do this to themselves

mostly likely one of her skills or ults will be marking a target for extra dmg I think

maybe a blink strike? might save that for maiev also

would not mind if they just stole bloodseeker's ult and gave it to her, dk + valeera plays would be hype
 
I like the Warcraft heroes for the most part. Few SC or Diablo characters left that I'd want to see in over several WC ones. Overwatch, though, I'd like to see more of those.
 
Reila said:
I miss when Blizzard released heroes that weren't from Warcraft for this game.
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it's their most fleshed out franchise. If they stop doing warcraft heroes they'll have their other franchises used up within a year or 2 completely.

Still tho, I want male barbarian already. The Diablo classes have more than 1 hero to offer.
 
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