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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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kirblar

Member
Reddit thread on lane assignments, Excitedronpaul.png

Over/under on laning becoming part of casual meta play? My optimistic guess is by the end of the year cuz of the implementation of bans and the resources for learning good drafting only really existing in pro games.
You mean stuff like 1/4 on DS? Never.
 

Ketch

Member
I honestly think that the designers believe gazlowe to be a good hero.

I don't think they're very good at their own game.

Also, I agree with kirblar. 90% of the time you can't get people that pick well based on the most basic info. No way will anyone understand the need for good lanes when they don't even understand the need for stuns.
 

brian!

Member
I haven't seen anyone try a 1-4 yet in soloqueue.

I see it a bunch but a lot of the time ill force it myself by stacking mid and clearing the wave as soon as possible

I might be more optimistic about it than i should be but i can def see it becoming a thing esp. if pro play gets more supported and ppl get more tryhard when leagues come through
 

brian!

Member
Im thinking more like an environment where ppl become conditioned to do certain things, and where ppl who understand why these things are being done have an advantage, like in league or dota where meta picks and laning are kind of a given except in pre-lvl 30 and bronze games and exist in a really wide mmr range. In leagues case i attribute so much of it to the visibility of streams and higher play, where picks there are so influential on what reg players pick and types of picks too. But yeah as im thinking it out there's no way heroes will look like that by the end of the year lol
 

Milly79

Member
I honestly think that the designers believe gazlowe to be a good hero.

I don't think they're very good at their own game.

Also, I agree with kirblar. 90% of the time you can't get people that pick well based on the most basic info. No way will anyone understand the need for good lanes when they don't even understand the need for stuns.

I mean that's most games. Devs typically don't seem to grasp it.
 

sobaka770

Banned
Man the new draft screen has some weird lighting, red looks purple like if the whole screen is lit by a violet light, the hero models, portraits etc. Anyone else notice this?
 

Alur

Member
I thought Sylv's damage was worse myself. She was in pretty much every game I played on PTR. The MC was OpieOP, but felt like her impact was lessened without the mass spread of Cold Embrace.

EDIT: Based on the pretty dece range of Sylv's MC, isn't she the easiest counter in HL to Morales now? I mean, we always talk about the "focus Morales" debate...which is obviously easier said than done. When you can MC Morales straight into your team, though, seems like an easy team fight win.
 

Ketch

Member
I thought Sylv's damage was worse myself. She was in pretty much every game I played on PTR. The MC was OpieOP, but felt like her impact was lessened without the mass spread of Cold Embrace.

EDIT: Based on the pretty dece range of Sylv's MC, isn't she the easiest counter in HL to Morales now? I mean, we always talk about the "focus Morales" debate...which is obviously easier said than done. When you can MC Morales straight into your team, though, seems like an easy team fight win.

she was already a pretty good counter to her with wailing arrow anyway. If you kill whoever she wants to heal then she's useless anyway.

Yea i'm not sure about her damage. She feels more impactful in the early game vs heroes though. I was going for withering range, windrunner, and remorseless. and it felt pretty strong.... i mean it felt strong vs. illidan, KT, tychus, gazlowe.... so who actually knows.

I think if you want to be a dick you should spam pick Mi Ling on PTR just to still shit on people.
 

Ketch

Member
really? I am surprised. I only played her for two games, but I did good hero damage, over 60k in one game. It's really hard to tell for sure on PTR because it's so fucked, but I think she definitely feels like she hits stronger... or is withering fire just longer base range or something?
 
I honestly think that the designers believe gazlowe to be a good hero.

I don't think they're very good at their own game.

The problem with Gazlowe is Mercenary Lord/Robo-Goblin is part of a meta that doesn't really exist in Heroes of the Storm. Or worse, it's redundant. Robo-Goblin Gazlowe is really only advantageous to have on your team if you're playing with a significant lead in team level and have a lot of map control. If you're playing from behind and the other team has map/camp control, a Robo-Goblin Gazlowe is borderline useless. Turrent/Grav-O-Bomb is great for fixed objective fights but then, again, Gazlowe is sort of useless because he's a squishy melee hero with no mobility that doesn't really have the luxury to waddle in to a melee and right click stuff. It's almost like a non-RG Gazlowe needs a scaling right click that's a melee attack up close and a projectile at maximum distance.

Gazlowe is like a shitty Tinker.
 

Ketch

Member
The problem with Gazlowe is Mercenary Lord/Robo-Goblin is part of a meta that doesn't really exist in Heroes of the Storm. Or worse, it's redundant. Robo-Goblin Gazlowe is really only advantageous to have on your team if you're playing with a significant lead in team level and have a lot of map control. If you're playing from behind and the other team has map/camp control, a Robo-Goblin Gazlowe is borderline useless. Turrent/Grav-O-Bomb is great for fixed objective fights but then, again, Gazlowe is sort of useless because he's a squishy melee hero with no mobility that doesn't really have the luxury to waddle in to a melee and right click stuff. It's almost like a non-RG Gazlowe needs a scaling right click that's a melee attack up close and a projectile at maximum distance.

Gazlowe is like a shitty Tinker.

except he's nothing like tinker at all.

tinker is a burst damage carry.

gazlowe has no damage let alone burst and couldn't carry a sandwich with a forklift.

gazlowe is not sort of useless because he's a squishy melee hero with no mobility, he's completely useless because of those reasons. His ranged damage does nothing and requires the enemy team to either walk into it or let you charge up for 8 seconds.

the miracle gravo bomb is all he's got going for him, but a chance at winning one team fight is not worth losing the rest of the game.
 

Milly79

Member
really? I am surprised. I only played her for two games, but I did good hero damage, over 60k in one game. It's really hard to tell for sure on PTR because it's so fucked, but I think she definitely feels like she hits stronger... or is withering fire just longer base range or something?

Yeah, I'm not sure. I always thought it was easy to poop out damage due to her dot being on a semi-short CD.
 

Alur

Member
I agree with Milly. Felt like damage on her was stupid easy during the Cold Embrace days. You can pretty much just spam damage with her anyway and mana is never really a concern. It never amounted to anything, but she could put it out. Of all the Syl's I saw on PTR I think one cracked 40k.

Whether she does more damage or not, though, that vulnerability nerf is big. She needed it though, cause it was stupid.
 

Milly79

Member
Ehh. I don't think it was that much of an issue, anymore. I say that because she has heavily fallen out of the entire game for the past few months.
 

Alur

Member
You gotta be kidding. Every time you played her in QM it was auto-win at 16 if you had any good damage on your side with her. That's why it was broken. Doesn't have shit all to do with competitive. A cold embrace with a Li-Ming combo is even more riparooni than Li-Ming's already dumb riparooni. Same for any mage, really.

Edit: also praise yeezus no one has to suffer through Sylv AOE vuln in ARAM anymore.

Editx2: THH is up with patch impressions for Dunk, bkb, and Team Blaze's bigempct
 
except he's nothing like tinker at all.

tinker is a burst damage carry.

gazlowe has no damage let alone burst and couldn't carry a sandwich with a forklift.

gazlowe is not sort of useless because he's a squishy melee hero with no mobility, he's completely useless because of those reasons. His ranged damage does nothing and requires the enemy team to either walk into it or let you charge up for 8 seconds.

the miracle gravo bomb is all he's got going for him, but a chance at winning one team fight is not worth losing the rest of the game.

Gazlowe is shitty Tinker.
 

Milly79

Member
You gotta be kidding. Every time you played her in QM it was auto-win at 16 if you had any good damage on your side with her. That's why it was broken. Doesn't have shit all to do with competitive. A cold embrace with a Li-Ming combo is even more riparooni than Li-Ming's already dumb riparooni. Same for any mage, really.

Edit: also praise yeezus no one has to suffer through Sylv AOE vuln in ARAM anymore.

Editx2: THH is up with patch impressions for Dunk, bkb, and Team Blaze's bigempct

I wasn't kidding. It may have been close to an auto win, but I wasn't referencing competitive either. She was basically non-exsistant in QM and HL. That's pretty crazy even with the randomness of QM. My WR against Syl is in the green with 55.9% (438 games against) and I'm sure yours is comparable. I do agree it sucked in ARAM, but it wasn't as OP as you're making it. Of course this is just, IMO.
 

Alur

Member
I wasn't kidding. It may have been close to an auto win, but I wasn't referencing competitive either. She was basically non-exsistant in QM and HL. That's pretty crazy even with the randomness of QM. My WR against Syl is in the green with 55.9% (438 games against) and I'm sure yours is comparable. I do agree it sucked in ARAM, but it wasn't as OP as you're making it. Of course this is just, IMO.

Your winrate against every hero not released in 2016 is above 50%. That doesn't mean a whole lot IMO. We are in the top ~10% of players despite our flaws and win like 55% of our games on average. You'll have that with most heroes, even the ones you think give you trouble.

Cold Embrace was a talent that allowed her to spread vuln to 5 members of the team with little effort while Tyrande's version and Nova's version affected just one target. That doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider the insane value vulnerability provides in a team fight no matter her current viability. She was literally a meta shift or small buff away from us being subjected to that shit in every game, which would have sucked.
 

brian!

Member
Did they discuss quest talents or core health? That's what im most interested to hear about atm

Also apparently you can dance through mind control? Hell yeah
 
Better. I wouldn't say great because the guest, bigempct from blaze, didn't get to talk that much and dunk seemed all everytthing is just great but bkb talked a lot. Weirdly Jake would address bkb when bkb had just ended a pretty lengthy argument.
 

Milly79

Member
Better. I wouldn't say great because the guest, bigempct from blaze, didn't get to talk that much and dunk seemed all everytthing is just great but bkb talked a lot. Weirdly Jake would address bkb when bkb had just ended a pretty lengthy discussion.

Sounds decent then. Basically anything could be better than what it has been.
 

Alur

Member
Weirdly Jake would address bkb when bkb had just ended a pretty lengthy argument.

I only listened to the first 30-45 mins and noticed that a few times. bigempct hardly talked at all, didn't really seem like he wanted to either in the small bit I got to see.

Sounds decent then. Basically anything could be better than what it has been.

Agreed. It was better, for at least one episode anyway.
 

Maledict

Member
I'm going to be honest, I think the pros are misusing Mage Falstad.

Mage Falstad needs to be constantly team fighting to ramp up his damage. It doesn't work if you have Falstad soloing by himself like AA Falstad does. We're seeing games where Falstad doesn't even +100 damage on his hammer, which means its a very weak talent pick overall.

I love mage falstad, but you can't use Falstad as a split soaker in the same way you can AA falstad. If you are going to do that, it feels like you'd be better off with the AA build as you can ramp that up on your own.
 

brian!

Member
I dunno if it's that imperative to maximize the stacks. Like you miss out on so much if you dont play falstad w/ his positives in mind, esp since magestad should be superior at waveclear too.

What does magestad take at 13/16?
 

Maledict

Member
Giant Killer at 13 and either Hammer stun or Aerie gustss at 16 depending upon whether he took flowrider at 4.

(Actually at 13 you can take pretty much anything, but giant killer is the usual choice)
 

brian!

Member
I thought aerie was 16? I also assumed the 4 cd talent was mandatory lol

My magestad knowledge very low

Oh nm i cant read yeah it's 16
 

Maledict

Member
I thought aerie was 16? I also assumed the 4 cd talent was mandatory lol

My magestad knowledge very low

Have edited my post to make it clearer - yes Aerie gusts is at 16, along with the hammer stun.

And no, it's not settled at all whether you take Flow Rider or the range on hammer at 4. The thing with flow Rider is, if they are able to damage you then it won't do anything - and because your hammer range is shorter, they will find it a lot easier to damage you. Especially if they have things like Valla's Multishot. so it's a choice on which talent you take - both have pro's and cons.
 
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