-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
- Status
jaundicejuice
Member
I dunno how viable Kael's gonna be in the long run but he feels like he has a few alternatives at a couple of talent tiers where it previously felt there was no real choice at all. However I think the Chain Bomb change will make him a little less relevant in higher level play where players will simply split up to prevent Chain Bomb from proc'ing. I think losing the free cast and jumping to non-hero units are going to have to get looked at. That said a lot of his new talents are fun, particularly Sunking's Fury.
There is an inherent advantage in forcing players to split up though - his living bomb combined with his flame strike talents make him an incredibly good zoning hero who can punish teams that clump fantastically (or on maps where clumping just happens, e.g. Cursed hollow, Towers of Doom, etc).
It doesn't get away from the Li-Ming issue though - she's just too good. I love playing her, but the sheer damage she does from a very long range combined with her trait makes her incredibly easy mode sometimes. She was supposed to be a high skill cap hero, but taking the glass cannon magic missile build and throwing out your abilities every 12 seconds isn't that hard. If they land then you laser and you just one shot a back liner, congrats!
I still think part of her issue is her talent design. She's like the anti-Jaina - she can take a damage increasing talent at every single tier if she wants. That makes for bad design and makes her abilities ramp up in a way that doesn't feel healthy compared to the other mages.
It doesn't get away from the Li-Ming issue though - she's just too good. I love playing her, but the sheer damage she does from a very long range combined with her trait makes her incredibly easy mode sometimes. She was supposed to be a high skill cap hero, but taking the glass cannon magic missile build and throwing out your abilities every 12 seconds isn't that hard. If they land then you laser and you just one shot a back liner, congrats!
I still think part of her issue is her talent design. She's like the anti-Jaina - she can take a damage increasing talent at every single tier if she wants. That makes for bad design and makes her abilities ramp up in a way that doesn't feel healthy compared to the other mages.
jaundicejuice
Member
Chain Bomb is hilarious on Garden of Terror, especially with Netherwind on the seed golem fight. Catching people clumped up in two stuns and killing them with chain bomb early in the game, it's glorious.
I hope they re-add Flamethrower. Just put it at the same tier as Burned Flesh so you have to choose between range and a multi-hero damage boost. Or if 7 is too early for the nuke range increase, maybe it could be added to 13, again. The new Convection, Flamethrower and sped up Fury of the Sunwell might be an answer to a Li-Ming ulting from relative safety. Pyroblast can be cast from relatively safety on her as well but semi-decent support, Dominance and/or Diamond Skin completely negate the ult. Like virtually everything else in the game. The only real upside is she can't get away from a Pyroblast and, depending on the talents taken, it could chase her away from a fight.
I hope they re-add Flamethrower. Just put it at the same tier as Burned Flesh so you have to choose between range and a multi-hero damage boost. Or if 7 is too early for the nuke range increase, maybe it could be added to 13, again. The new Convection, Flamethrower and sped up Fury of the Sunwell might be an answer to a Li-Ming ulting from relative safety. Pyroblast can be cast from relatively safety on her as well but semi-decent support, Dominance and/or Diamond Skin completely negate the ult. Like virtually everything else in the game. The only real upside is she can't get away from a Pyroblast and, depending on the talents taken, it could chase her away from a fight.
jaundicejuice
Member
Oh, that applies to her as well and it has a stupidly low CD. Great.
In another unreported change, they substantially increased core health and decreased shields a bit. At 20 minutes it now has 11K more health but 3K less shields. Means it takes 24% more damage to kill the core at that point.
Should hurt the base racing and back footing a bit hopefully!
Should hurt the base racing and back footing a bit hopefully!
Seems good to me but not like etc/muradin level, so much of the playmaking power is in q and flanking, he can split soak like bw.
RumblingRosco
Member
I can win an AI game in fewer than 5 minutes on average. If I have a busy week, it's the only way I have time to keep up with the dailies.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm going through the info available for the qualifier tomorrow right now and the first thing I noticed was schwimpi and breez, seems like breez just has a weird name on esl and Schwimpi was listed under team captain, not being listed for fnatic.
Seems like Remmerballer replaced BKB on Virtus Pro. NaVi ain't attending unsurprisingly, Dignitas is but mYi isn't. Also Danatan from NaVi is competing with another team. Team Sandwich Monkeys still haven't disbanded.
Seems like Remmerballer replaced BKB on Virtus Pro. NaVi ain't attending unsurprisingly, Dignitas is but mYi isn't. Also Danatan from NaVi is competing with another team. Team Sandwich Monkeys still haven't disbanded.
He feels much like Diablo (health regen and moving people around the battlefield), but trades in some of Diablo's offense for more defensive options, and mobility with his mount ability. So to me, he occupies almost the exact same role as Diablo.
In fact splitting -> z grouping/going for the flank gank is prob his main thing since hes poor at face to face and against any semblence of positioning, if his waveclear was better (havent played dunno if he has a talent for this?) hed be really good
Kidnap front line -> tyrande d/stun could be good in a face off though
He's pretty good at getting ppl to blow cds on him too
Also in the kael game i was playing, we were on infernal shrines and i was hiding in a bush zoning for our gazlowe to set up at shrine and a wild dehaka appeared like pokemon, he's a pretty good facechecker. Like i wasnt even looking at my hero and woops im dead
Maybe he fits more in 2+ warrior comps, i havent really seen his peel manifest in a meaningful way in my games (have also been playing ranged so im not eating his w or anything, dunno if the dmg on that could keep back a sonya or thrall though). Him coming in w/ the flank with another warrior frontlining could be legit
Kidnap front line -> tyrande d/stun could be good in a face off though
He's pretty good at getting ppl to blow cds on him too
Also in the kael game i was playing, we were on infernal shrines and i was hiding in a bush zoning for our gazlowe to set up at shrine and a wild dehaka appeared like pokemon, he's a pretty good facechecker. Like i wasnt even looking at my hero and woops im dead
Maybe he fits more in 2+ warrior comps, i havent really seen his peel manifest in a meaningful way in my games (have also been playing ranged so im not eating his w or anything, dunno if the dmg on that could keep back a sonya or thrall though). Him coming in w/ the flank with another warrior frontlining could be legit
I played a bunch of ARAM games on the new map this afternoon - was insane fun. Hugely enjoy that mode, they really should just implement a queue for it.
In terms of heroes played with:
Nova was surprisingly good. I haven't played her in a year (and didn't even know I owned her), but the snipe master talent actually does work in an ARAM match. Mana free snipes on a 3 second cooldown doing 900+ damage is a *lot* of damage, and its so easier to hit in an ARAM game.
Lunara - freakishly powerful. even though her first two tiers of talents are absolut trash, her overall kit seems really strong when you can't hearth and only have well cooldowns.
Greymane - my favourite hero in normal matches, but didn't seem that fab in an ARAM match. The lack of self healing really hinders him it felt like.
Gazlowe: Meh. his rework doesn't seem like much of a rework compared to the others, and he didn't feel that great. I went the turret build and wasn't impressed.
On the enemy teams, have to say Li-Ming and Hammer both felt very oppressive due to the range on their abilities. god knows how annoying a marky would be...
In terms of heroes played with:
Nova was surprisingly good. I haven't played her in a year (and didn't even know I owned her), but the snipe master talent actually does work in an ARAM match. Mana free snipes on a 3 second cooldown doing 900+ damage is a *lot* of damage, and its so easier to hit in an ARAM game.
Lunara - freakishly powerful. even though her first two tiers of talents are absolut trash, her overall kit seems really strong when you can't hearth and only have well cooldowns.
Greymane - my favourite hero in normal matches, but didn't seem that fab in an ARAM match. The lack of self healing really hinders him it felt like.
Gazlowe: Meh. his rework doesn't seem like much of a rework compared to the others, and he didn't feel that great. I went the turret build and wasn't impressed.
On the enemy teams, have to say Li-Ming and Hammer both felt very oppressive due to the range on their abilities. god knows how annoying a marky would be...
That would be fun.
Can't say I mind the core life buff that people found. Sounds okay to me.
Has anyone done any QM games on Garden of Terror? I've had two and watched a few on stream. Based on that limited experience, it seems like the change may actually succeed in making the game less whack-a-mole while also not extending it.
Instead of killing every fort on the map with your W cause you can just wander around and do so, people have just been barreling down one lane. They either stick with the Terror and push with the damage bonus, or use the terror as a decoy and split push as a 4-man group. Either way, less forts killed which I know some people don't like...but on the positive side, less/no whack-a-mole.
Can't say I mind the core life buff that people found. Sounds okay to me.
Has anyone done any QM games on Garden of Terror? I've had two and watched a few on stream. Based on that limited experience, it seems like the change may actually succeed in making the game less whack-a-mole while also not extending it.
Instead of killing every fort on the map with your W cause you can just wander around and do so, people have just been barreling down one lane. They either stick with the Terror and push with the damage bonus, or use the terror as a decoy and split push as a 4-man group. Either way, less forts killed which I know some people don't like...but on the positive side, less/no whack-a-mole.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Gotta get on yourself then, only milly is in the channel
Haha, this is true. The yung brian and pro player Ketch def have the craziest log-in times of anyone. Very rare occurrence to see either play more than one or two games in a row. To play NA/EU you'd have to have a preset time and day to get more than like 3 people on at once, but at least you have a whole week.
brian's idea he is the organizer
so like every other melee still eh eh eh
don't feel he's any more support dependent than he ever was. that's kind of part of his thing. do feel like he requires more skill, but think the reward is better too from what I've seen.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I hate tychus and I suck with him, probably related. Getting him on random is pure misery.
More testing is required but on paper illidan loses his shield, first aid, and stoneskin and gains lesser defensive talents (his lvl 4 is pretty miserable now too it seems) + ~200 health, tychus loses first aid, stoneskin, and is expected to be less mobile and gets + 100 health and in terms of defensive talents gets a quicker relentless (really into this, hope it spreads out) and a spellshield + a better e if you talent into it, for me this is a net loss in survivability in both cases. Illidan's tass synergy is up tho w/ the increased lifesteal but again cc is the problem here not his ability to sustain w/ autos, with tychus something like force wall or etc w w/ the 13 talent can help him pump out dmg but he's much more prone to cc w/o the generic talents and cant do shit against something like zera now i think. Ptrs been pretty support-less so it's hard to see the interactions but shields should be better across the board for illi but taking away his staggered survivability hurts the way i like to play him
In general id def characterize both as meaningfully squishier than before
In general id def characterize both as meaningfully squishier than before
hurts the only way there was to play him for like a solid year, you mean lol
In theory, yes, but the damage potential is now much greater. Tychus wasn't missing from the meta cause he couldn't survive. He was missing cause he couldn't do any damage. In theory now he can. Whether the trade-off is worth it or not is up in the air, but for plebs like us I think he will be seen again now based on all I've heard from others.
Yeah it remains to be seen, for me survivability is king where these two are concerned and a decrease in that is a decrease in viability, kinda wish pros were free to sound off on these things atm just for the theory they could provide
I think tychus's dmg suffered from the scaling but he could still like oneshot valla if that case ever occured, for me metawise it was a mixture of being very reliant on overkill cd (because it's the only way to do dmg w/o being a sitting duck), low range, and weak early game w/ very poor power spikes that made him booty
Oh my b i read that wrong
Yeah i guess in the larger scheme of things it's whatever im not trying to raise my mmr or anything and this patch doesnt affect me in real life very much?
But illidan is my fave hero and tychus is probably my 3rd most played behind zera and tass i dunno if that's relevant though
Yeah i guess in the larger scheme of things it's whatever im not trying to raise my mmr or anything and this patch doesnt affect me in real life very much?
But illidan is my fave hero and tychus is probably my 3rd most played behind zera and tass i dunno if that's relevant though
Plenty of pros and scene related people have been commenting on Twitter. Dread, Zoia, Grubby, and a few others all did patch thoughts yesterday on Twitch or played the PTR for impressions.
Bakery, Dread, and co are gonna break down the patch on the 26th with AlextheProG too.
Such shade. Much bait.
He's just busting your balls a bit about your philosoraptor style contemplation of these changes
Yeah im interested in what bakery has to say, i was thinking more about pros at the top. Dread, when it comes to impressions, is uh, emotional? Lol, but i totally am with him about the quest talents which might become really problematic
Illidan is my fave but yeah i rarely play him cuz someone always picks him...
Illidan is my fave but yeah i rarely play him cuz someone always picks him...
after reading this is my summary of brian's thoughts on Tychus:
I dunno bout that. Think you're just basing that off of yesterday's stream. Kind of like that one time you said you thought he was snarky based off the one other stream you'd watched. Think he just rubs you da wronk way breh
I dunno bout that. Think you're just basing that off of yesterday's stream. Kind of like that one time you said you thought he was snarky based off the one other stream you'd watched. Think he just rubs you da wronk way breh
I was thinking about other times too, but i mean anything he says is valuable ofc. What i really want are impressions from like nvt/c9/dig/blz, but they are all pretty entrenched in the current patch tho. I dont dislike dread i think he's great just kinda passive-aggressive, like dude is gonna leave me a note about doing dishes or something with a smiley face at the end
Don't let your dreams be memes brian. There's still time for you to represent GAF as a pro.
Well, Sat we'll get to hear from the Bakerman. That's something I guess.
Pretty glad the patch is going live Tuesday. That draft screen is p good looking and I want to actually be able to use it.
EDIT: I have a theory that NVT probably wish this patch came before Korea. They suck on the one we are on. Anything to change things up is probably good for them since they have no handle on what's going on currently.
Help us brianstorm you're our only hope!
Well, Sat we'll get to hear from the Bakerman. That's something I guess.
Pretty glad the patch is going live Tuesday. That draft screen is p good looking and I want to actually be able to use it.
EDIT: I have a theory that NVT probably wish this patch came before Korea. They suck on the one we are on. Anything to change things up is probably good for them since they have no handle on what's going on currently.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Dread is totally emotional and he gets caught in the moment all the time. Just think back when he was shitting on Glaurung at THH when I've never even seen anyone hype him up particularly.
Or when he gets annoyed at something.
Was anyone at Naventic ever ahead of the curve on anything?
Or when he gets annoyed at something.
Was anyone at Naventic ever ahead of the curve on anything?
He summed up what i thought about the quest stuff really well but i chalk up all the showboaty stuff on his own stream as doing it for da ppl
Glau in general for na...i guess the scene is like the dursleys and hes harry potter, he mainly exists to get shit on. Reddit luvs him tho
@ketch yeah the one time i tested him was w/ quest talents but i wouldnt favor something like 25% reduction on vault or teleport personally, needs testing tho
Also not havig those for odin suuuucks
Glau in general for na...i guess the scene is like the dursleys and hes harry potter, he mainly exists to get shit on. Reddit luvs him tho
@ketch yeah the one time i tested him was w/ quest talents but i wouldnt favor something like 25% reduction on vault or teleport personally, needs testing tho
Also not havig those for odin suuuucks
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Like that one time he popularized vorpal blade Zeratul maybe. But I got into competitive around the time he got cut from Tempo.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll