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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
I really like it.
It guts him which is fine w/ me i guess, it's a qm change to me tho, q is gonna be awful in any skilled play i feel but gotta see how it turns out
Oh wait i misread the q talent, i thought it made the duration go back to 8 lmao, jk tass prob still godlike
The change is actually a lot more graceful than when i misread it, helps solve tass/valla and tass/tracer, and he's kind of getting overly compensated for the nerf, prob the same for ppl who know how to play him and a nerf to ppl that dont know how to shield
Cd reduc after 30 globes is a pretty big hole blizz is digging
Oh wait i misread the q talent, i thought it made the duration go back to 8 lmao, jk tass prob still godlike
The change is actually a lot more graceful than when i misread it, helps solve tass/valla and tass/tracer, and he's kind of getting overly compensated for the nerf, prob the same for ppl who know how to play him and a nerf to ppl that dont know how to shield
Cd reduc after 30 globes is a pretty big hole blizz is digging
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I think the most leo needs is buffs to his q as it improves his waveclear. I'm always iffy on numbers being changed though.
Yeah, this seemed specifically targeted to restore his waveclear to what it used to be.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Those are draft considerations though.
Yeah, that's mainly what I was referring to. Him as a solo tank. But even when he's an off tank he's just such an easy target. Scouting a boss or something seems like one of the few situations you could reliably get value out of that talent. Would be interesting if it was somehow made easier to use.
Really? I feel like it's way better then EQ bloodlust tychus
I just don't like where the meta is. Not a fan of the Tassadar cheese or the Varian cheese, and it's all over the place in unranked and QM. Doesn't feel like much has changed meta wise for some time now beyond Arthas coming into the fold and Artanis fading out.
That combined with the asinine changes to QM matchmaking for sustain heroes that have burnt me/us several times now and it's just frustrating. Abathur is in no way comparable to Tyrande or Tass as sustain. Ditto for Zarya, albeit with certain comps she could at least work. Getting Aba in QM was already bad, getting him against basically a full healer in Tyrande is just demoralizing.
That combined with the asinine changes to QM matchmaking for sustain heroes that have burnt me/us several times now and it's just frustrating. Abathur is in no way comparable to Tyrande or Tass as sustain. Ditto for Zarya, albeit with certain comps she could at least work. Getting Aba in QM was already bad, getting him against basically a full healer in Tyrande is just demoralizing.
scoobs
Member
Ya, it's not perfect. But abathur does have sustain talents, unfortunately that doesn't mean your abathur player will pick them.
It's a tough thing to balance... would you rather they have tassadar matching up against Malfurion like it was before?
Who should abathurs be matched up against? Only mirror matches? The queue times would be epic.
I'd be curious to hear how you'd like them to address this.
It's a tough thing to balance... would you rather they have tassadar matching up against Malfurion like it was before?
Who should abathurs be matched up against? Only mirror matches? The queue times would be epic.
I'd be curious to hear how you'd like them to address this.
The way it was before was fine. That's the best it's been and the best it will get most likely. Abathur is a specialist and should be matched against other specialists. I don't recall anyone being majorly upset about that setup in regards to him. Sustain talents or no they pale in comparison to the other 3 heroes in that pool.
Varian and Sonya are interesting exceptions for the new rules. Not sure anything can be done with them.
Tyrande was fine before. She can heal well enough and output damage to make up for the lack, and now she's completely obnoxious should you face one and have one of the other sustain. Tassadar was and will always be hit or miss as solo support. I've been rolled by some even against Malfurion and had far more others who couldn't out shield a Zarya. I still think both were better classified as supports, or would be better classified as sustain (just those two) with Zarya and Abathur going back into their respective pools.
Who did you feel was unpickable for QM beyond Sonya? The warriors have been in a pretty good spot for a while now. Outside of balance concerns I can't see why you wouldn't be able to take any of them in there.
Varian and Sonya are interesting exceptions for the new rules. Not sure anything can be done with them.
Tyrande was fine before. She can heal well enough and output damage to make up for the lack, and now she's completely obnoxious should you face one and have one of the other sustain. Tassadar was and will always be hit or miss as solo support. I've been rolled by some even against Malfurion and had far more others who couldn't out shield a Zarya. I still think both were better classified as supports, or would be better classified as sustain (just those two) with Zarya and Abathur going back into their respective pools.
Who did you feel was unpickable for QM beyond Sonya? The warriors have been in a pretty good spot for a while now. Outside of balance concerns I can't see why you wouldn't be able to take any of them in there.
TheSadRanger
Banned
tfw you realize butcher and chromie might be perfect for each other 
I think I found my guy to climb out of silver with finally
I think I found my guy to climb out of silver with finally
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's so infuriating when people just stand still tanking all the butcher damage letting him heal to full.
Basically any who are labeled as bruisers now, besides maybe Chen cus he's a QM god.
Sonya, Rex, Artanis pre rework, Zarya, Leo (although not as painful as the others)
Any of those solo up against a main tank was unfair.
QM rules suck, but they're better then they were.
Abathur should be matched as a spec not a support.
Zaria should be matched as a bruiser
How are they better, though?
Any of those heroes you listed except Sonya were fine in QM bar balance worries. Perhaps Rexxar had issues going against a tank, but his thing isn't even really tanking to begin with. He, like Sonya (and Tass and Tyrande for supports) are kind of in no man's land. Against a real tank, they aren't great, but against some of the heroes classified as a bruiser they are a roflstomp win. Zarya has always been fine in QM, it's just a crapshoot on if you get someone else you can enable on your team to get free energy. Artanis has been good for a while now. Leo is (IMO) worse than any of them in QM cause he just gets chunked so easy, but again that's more balance than anything actually unfair in the matchmaking.
Now, though, you can end up with Zarya versus Abathur and the Abathur team also could have no tank. You can end up with Abathur vs Tass or Tyrande or both, as has happened to me twice. Those scenarios are dumber than anything we had before. If you luck into Tyrande vs Tass or Tass vs Tass or Tyrande vs Tyrande yeah, that's an improvement, but putting them in a pool with Zarya and Abathur is pretty WTF.
Having Sonya vs Ragnaros shouldn't happen. Having Abathur vs Tass and/or Tyrande shouldn't happen. Those matchups are heavily weighted to one side or the other, and the Abathur one doubly so because it's already a higher percent chance you were losing with Aba on your team to begin with due to the randomness of QM comps/maps. Rag shouldn't be in the bruiser pool and Zarya should, and Tyrande and Tass should be in their own pool of sustain/damage supports. Abathur should be delet-...er, queued as a specialist.
Any of those heroes you listed except Sonya were fine in QM bar balance worries. Perhaps Rexxar had issues going against a tank, but his thing isn't even really tanking to begin with. He, like Sonya (and Tass and Tyrande for supports) are kind of in no man's land. Against a real tank, they aren't great, but against some of the heroes classified as a bruiser they are a roflstomp win. Zarya has always been fine in QM, it's just a crapshoot on if you get someone else you can enable on your team to get free energy. Artanis has been good for a while now. Leo is (IMO) worse than any of them in QM cause he just gets chunked so easy, but again that's more balance than anything actually unfair in the matchmaking.
Now, though, you can end up with Zarya versus Abathur and the Abathur team also could have no tank. You can end up with Abathur vs Tass or Tyrande or both, as has happened to me twice. Those scenarios are dumber than anything we had before. If you luck into Tyrande vs Tass or Tass vs Tass or Tyrande vs Tyrande yeah, that's an improvement, but putting them in a pool with Zarya and Abathur is pretty WTF.
Having Sonya vs Ragnaros shouldn't happen. Having Abathur vs Tass and/or Tyrande shouldn't happen. Those matchups are heavily weighted to one side or the other, and the Abathur one doubly so because it's already a higher percent chance you were losing with Aba on your team to begin with due to the randomness of QM comps/maps. Rag shouldn't be in the bruiser pool and Zarya should, and Tyrande and Tass should be in their own pool of sustain/damage supports. Abathur should be delet-...er, queued as a specialist.
jaundicejuice
Member
It probably makes more sense to do away with Quick Match and make Unranked Draft the main mode for pleb play mode than to try and continually balance QM match-making. The more heroes and variations of each role gets added, the worse QM match-making seems to get.
yea i put in my post that zarya and abathur matching is fucked.
I'm fine with tyrande, medivh, and tass all in the same pool.
Bruiser category is fine imo. sonya vs rag is 1000x better then sonya vs muradin. getting a bruiser in the tank spot vs an actual tank is unfair. getting a bruiser in the bruiser slot against a melee assassin is still damage vs damage.
quick match just needs to go. it's time. blind pick please.
You can't get rid of Quick Match because it destroys their core business model of selling individual heroes.
If you don't have a mode where you can just go in and lock the new hero or the new hero you just unlocked, you're not really enticing anyone to buy anything but whatever is in the meta. I'm not sure if blind pick solves it because people would still inevitably enforce a meta like 3a/1h/1t or whatever and you'd have to pick around that just like you do in unranked. Maybe being able to lock a role or two heading into a draft like League would help somewhat, but I don't really have any good ideas for how to solve their business model with not having Quick Match.
EDIT: Also, what scoobs said. It's the most popular mode. Certainly my preferred one as well because I just want to play what I want and not be last pick/second to last pick every game.
re: QM matchmaking; there wasn't a bunch of complaining about it prior to these recent changes, at least not any more than the usual complaining you see in any moba about matchmaking. It was when they changed it and made it so blatant disadvantages could easily crop up or be exploited that it shifted back to how it was in the past with issues regarding certain heroes and roles.
If you don't have a mode where you can just go in and lock the new hero or the new hero you just unlocked, you're not really enticing anyone to buy anything but whatever is in the meta. I'm not sure if blind pick solves it because people would still inevitably enforce a meta like 3a/1h/1t or whatever and you'd have to pick around that just like you do in unranked. Maybe being able to lock a role or two heading into a draft like League would help somewhat, but I don't really have any good ideas for how to solve their business model with not having Quick Match.
EDIT: Also, what scoobs said. It's the most popular mode. Certainly my preferred one as well because I just want to play what I want and not be last pick/second to last pick every game.
re: QM matchmaking; there wasn't a bunch of complaining about it prior to these recent changes, at least not any more than the usual complaining you see in any moba about matchmaking. It was when they changed it and made it so blatant disadvantages could easily crop up or be exploited that it shifted back to how it was in the past with issues regarding certain heroes and roles.
My suggestion from like 2 years back; get rid of qm and make it blind pick...basically instead of starting immediately give 30 seconds for ppl to choose w/e hero they want (with the enemy picks being obscured. With this all the shittiness from qm dissapears, you get a casual mode, and you get a mode that actually lets you complement picks if you feel like it
I don't think blind pick will work as well in HotS. Heroes are pigeon holed into a very specific role and talents don't offer that much flexibility compared to a full blown item shop. You could arguably run Earthshaker for example in all roles if needed be but good luck with that in Lucio. People play quick match because they want to play a specific hero and renounce their agency to blame the matchmaker if needed be.
I think the ideal solution is half way between the two. You select the hero you want to play before starting, but get a short window to change your pick once you have a team where you can see what else is on your team.
Quick match being a broken model of gameplay that doesn't work for MOBAs is something I've been complaining about for over two years though, it's not going away. Can't get over the fact that blizzard originally thought that was the only mode they needed for the game... ;-)
Quick match being a broken model of gameplay that doesn't work for MOBAs is something I've been complaining about for over two years though, it's not going away. Can't get over the fact that blizzard originally thought that was the only mode they needed for the game... ;-)
I base it off my league blind pick experience. It was the hyper casual mode (w/ unranked draft being the actual casual mode), it allowed you to obstinately pick what you wanted, and ppl kind of expected you to, while giving the option to look around u and pick accordingly, if you felt like it. The thing here would be that your match isn't pre-boned by the system, itd be player controlled, and if you wanted actual pick you could play unranked. Maledict's thing kinda makes sense, but i dont think an algorithm that builds comps with should be involved in the game in any capacity
Agreed. Every classification system they put in place is just a band aid on a fundamentally impossible to solve problem that only restricts their character design options.
Switch over to my system and remove all the classification restrictions. Your choice whether you want a tank or not in your team.
I've always said one of the main reasons the matchmaker gets such critiscm compared to other MOBAs is because quick match allows people to blame the system rather than other players. When I get a shitty team in LoL or Dota comp wise I know it's the players fault. Whereas in hots, I blame the game because it thinks abathur and tyrande are the same type of hero.
Switch over to my system and remove all the classification restrictions. Your choice whether you want a tank or not in your team.
I've always said one of the main reasons the matchmaker gets such critiscm compared to other MOBAs is because quick match allows people to blame the system rather than other players. When I get a shitty team in LoL or Dota comp wise I know it's the players fault. Whereas in hots, I blame the game because it thinks abathur and tyrande are the same type of hero.
Actually yeah, if your thing was purely mmr based itd be pretty perfect
Im a little iffy on preselecting heroes tho
Ive always held on to the theory that hots enjoys a low skill average due in part to qm being the first hots exposure for a player, by taking a lot of the thinking and trial by fire ("wtf bro dont pick x, pick y because this reason") out, but i mean the lack of that is also a positive to me
Im a little iffy on preselecting heroes tho
Ive always held on to the theory that hots enjoys a low skill average due in part to qm being the first hots exposure for a player, by taking a lot of the thinking and trial by fire ("wtf bro dont pick x, pick y because this reason") out, but i mean the lack of that is also a positive to me