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[Ignatz Mouse]

Here's my response to the one-console/one-format comparison:

I've lived through an essentially one-console era-- the NES era. It sucked. It was too exploitable by the platform holder, a single monolithic entity.

I've lived through a one-format era (VHS, then DVD). It's great. Becuase the formats are not controlled by a single monolithic entity but by a board of competing manufacturers, there's no abuse of the single-format. Consumers win.

Aside: DVD quality didn't really pick up until after DiVX was dead. Prices really dropped after DiVX was dead, too. Another flawed analogy.

Last: Petrarca and Crayon are more abrasive than most of the people in this thread that support one format, and assume that to be BluRay. Do not generalize. Petrarca and Crayon, you could be more civil and less instulting.

 

[mrklaw]

two formats simply because Toshiba want to keep some royalties and Universal are being a PITA? That makes sense :/


Two formats makes no sense. Retailers don't want to double stock items just in case, studios don't want to produce two sets of titles just in case.

One format, decided soon is the best way for HD on a disc to take off.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

PROGRESS!!!

Progress? It's basically the core of my point, albeit with less hyperbole.

Ultimately, the HD-DVD buyer will be inconvenienced by the choice they've made to join HD-DVD now.

The HD-DVDs you buy now aren't going to explode into a flaming fireball when Universal decides to go neutral. But you are going to be either inconvenienced by using one player for some movies and another for another, or you won't be able to play some of your movies on all your devices or what not.

The real progress is that you've implicited accepted that HD-DVD is a doomed format. Bravo!

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Last: Petrarca and Crayon are more abrasive than most of the people in this thread that support one format, and assume that to be BluRay. Do not generalize. Petrarca and Crayon, you could be more civil and less instulting.

Coming from the guy that made a jab at another man's earning power and related it to his format choice, that's pretty rich.

 

[VanMardigan]

Progress? It's basically the core of my point, albeit with less hyperbole.

Ultimately, the HD-DVD buyer will be inconvenienced by the choice they've made to join HD-DVD now.

The HD-DVDs you buy now aren't going to explode into a flaming fireball when Universal decides to go neutral. But you are going to be either inconvenienced by using one player for some movies and another for another, or you won't be able to play some of your movies on all your devices or what not.

The real progress is that you've implicited accepted that HD-DVD is a doomed format. Bravo!

REGRESSION!!!

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

REGRESSION!!!

LACK OF COMPREHENSION!!!

No. I've basically restated more explicitly my POV.

 

[kaching]

Coming from the guy that made a jab at another man's earning power and related it to his format choice, that's pretty rich.

Someone sounds like they're angling for my tag... /sing-song voice

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Coming from the guy that made a jab at another man's earning power and related it to his format choice, that's pretty rich.

After about three attempts to say that I agreed with his reasoning. Read the whole bit again, all of my replies to him before that. I didn't flame anybody that wasn't actively begging for it.

 

[fortified_concept]

Well I did put a after my comment

I find it absurd that people who enjoy and buy both formats are labeled hd dvd fanboys :lol

People like Manabyte have given you a bad name. Anyway, two formats future just can't happen and everyone agreed to that a few months ago. One of the two will eventually die and everything points to HDDVD.

 

[djkimothy]

A two format future would be ridiculous. Imagine a PS3 with either a DVD drive or a Blu-ray drive for purchase. One would be cheaper, the other higher capacity. No one would stand for that.

 

[Matrix]

People like Manabyte have given you a bad name. Anyway, two formats future just can't happen and everyone agreed to that a few months ago. One of the two will eventually die and everything points to HDDVD.

Oh I know that,it doesnt matter to me who wins in the end and all signs point to blu ray and I have no issue with that.

I'm just enjoying all hd/blu ray movies right now and it's my money to burn.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Anyway. The real point I was trying to make that, anyone still with HD-DVD at this point could react to Bill Hunt's support for BD over HD-DVD with nothing but feigned indignation.

It's just not humanly possible to not be a fanboy, while still ignoring logic and rationality to such an extent, or worst yet, not seeing the dripping irony or hypocrisy of your own statement in lambasting Bill.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Oh I know that,it doesnt matter to me who wins in the end and all signs point to blu ray and I have no issue with that.

I'm just enjoying all hd/blu ray movies right now and it's my money to burn.

Absolutely fine. I mean; it's an unfortunate thing, but if you want those HD-DVD exclusives, you're going to have to wait a minimum of a few months while BDA gets their shit sorted on java. But sorted they will... some people just can't wait that long! I totally understand. I'm getting kinda pissed off waiting for my copy of Kingdom of Heaven Director's cut too.

 

[Warm Machine]

Spinning for neutrality; even though your posting history indicates bias?

I'm not spinning for anything. I'm pretty matter of fact about it and Sony's start to their format was bloody awful. So awful that Samsung effectively had to start it for them with thier own buggy non updateable player. They deserve the hammering that they got and continue to get.

Toshiba's was far smoother (not perfect) and the feature set and quality of transfers was up and running nearly immediately. I try to support those who I feel are delivering more to the customer. I think that they deserve a whole lot of credit for their technology and introduction of hardware and software and I think it is pretty hard to deny how they handled themselves.

I have no issue switching to Blu-Ray (especially now the PS3 scaling issue is resolved) and I've personally been buying few HD-DVD movies anyway so I don't get in too deep with the format. Out of sheer interest I want to see where this war is headed and whether there are still tricks up the sleeve of either player.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

I'm not spinning for anything. I'm pretty matter of fact about it and Sony's start to their format was bloody awful. So awful that Samsung effectively had to start it for them with thier own buggy non updateable player. They deserve the hammering that they got and continue to get.

Toshiba's was far smoother (not perfect) and the feature set and quality of transfers was up and running nearly immediately. I try to support those who I feel are delivering more to the customer. I think that they deserve a whole lot of credit for their technology and introduction of hardware and software and I think it is pretty hard to deny how they handled themselves.

I have no issue switching to Blu-Ray (especially now the PS3 scaling issue is resolved) and I've personally been buying few HD-DVD movies anyway so I don't get in too deep with the format. Out of sheer interest I want to see where this war is headed and whether there are still tricks up the sleeve of either player.

Spinning like a top.
If you're neutral; you'll be supporting Bluray... sounds counterintuitive? If you're truly neutral, your only concern is movies and features. You'll see that BD has the best chance of making that unified market a realization. With unified market, you get less confusion and less ambivalence in the market place. You get a single format that has it all.

Where else can this war really head? It'll either stagnate; with both players unable to eke each other out and viewed as a niche format like SACD/DVDA, Laserdisc and what not.

Or combo discs and players become standard (while still not clearing up consumer confusion in an already very confused marketplace).

Or BD proceeds to maintain momentum and takes the cake sometime in the next year.

 

[VanMardigan]

Anyway, two formats future just can't happen and everyone agreed to that a few months ago.

o rly?

And my goodness, crayon, you're effing annoying. Seriously, dude, you're stinking up the thread.

 

[kaching]

Enough, Crayon. Anyone that is "truly neutral" isn't buying a damn thing yet and is waiting for either format to reach higher volumes of sales success to ensure one or the other truly will survive.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

o rly?

And my goodness, crayon, you're effing annoying. Seriously, dude, you're stinking up the thread.

I'm stinking up the thread? That's H-i-l-a-r-i-o-u-s. Have you even read this behemoth? Half of the 5000 odd posts are of idiotic back and forths of BD vs HD-DVD.

This *is* the thread. Another day, another chance to point out how foolish HD-DVD fanboys are.

Enough, Crayon. Anyone that is "truly neutral" isn't buying a damn thing yet and is waiting for either format to reach higher volumes of sales success to ensure one or the other truly will survive.

It's not unlike an election; you can determine the result even if all the votes aren't in yet; as long as critical mass is reached.

We have enough information at this point to make an informed opinion as to what will happen. Been neutral is about standing back until you have enough information in order to make a determination; not giving into biases based on attributes other than what matters.

Blu-ray has hit critical momentum; it's got the sales in software and players. It's got the blockbuster thing happening, it's got those cheap funan players which will help negate the issue of cheap HD-DVD players. It's got BDJava coming a long shortly.

And not too far from now, we'll get Universal's press release stating that they're going neutral. But not a word before then; because it'll always be in their interest to milk the hell out of the HD-DVD fanbase until the very last moment. If they let even rumours fly now... what do you think people would do? Stop buying HD-DVD and Universal movies until they released on BD.

What does HD-DVD have left that could do anything but stagnate the market? Is that even an 'at best' situation?

 

[Bebpo]

When even the Blu-ray fans think you're annoying Crayon...I dunno, time to chill out or leave the thread.

To be honest, I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet as you're consistently attacking HD-DVD fans.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

When even the Blu-ray fans think you're annoying Crayon...I dunno, time to chill out or leave the thread.

To be honest, I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet as you're consistently attacking HD-DVD fans.

If you or anyone can address the issues in my last post (in such a way as to leave me doubting its conclusion), then I'll cease posting in this thread entirely.

Even I'm starting to annoy myself; because I am sounding like a broken record. But you know, they're not addressing the points; they're just attacking my character.

 

[Flo_Evans]

super blu-ray best friends, do not worry about the HD-DVD fans! They are infact, your allies against the mouth breathing DVD supporting factions! Any HD-DVD bought is a DVD not bought! That is the true enemy! SD.

 

[djkimothy]

super blu-ray best friends, do not worry about the HD-DVD fans! They are infact, your allies against the mouth breathing DVD supporting factions! Any HD-DVD bought is a DVD not bought! That is the true enemy! SD.

But what of the combo discs?

 

[fortified_concept]

o rly?

Oh c'mon don't tell me HD DVD fans didn't wholeheartedly agree a few months ago that only one format can survive. The "two format future" is just their last stand now they realized HD DVD is gonna lose.

 

[Flo_Evans]

But what of the combo discs?

hmm got me there. I have wished I could lend out some of my blu-rays without also lending my PS3 :lol

I think we should look at people that want to support a HD disc format as on the same side. We have enough of a fight against the embeded DVD and the looming digital distribustion whackos. Eventualy one HD disc will fade out, so why give the loyal HD-DVD people and excuse to revert to DVD or look ahead to the fools dream of DD? We need everyone we can get!

 

[VanMardigan]

Oh c'mon don't tell me HD DVD fans didn't wholeheartedly agree a few months ago that only one format can survive. The "two format future" is just their last stand now they realized HD DVD is gonna lose.

Nope, I don't know what you're talking about. This consensus you speak about totally eluded me. And I love these mental pictures I get with like 2-3 HD DVD fans yelling "two format future" into the face of an unrelenting wave of Blu faced warriors ready to break their equipment and force them to buy $600 BR players. :lol

That's hilarious the way some of you view this HD disc situation.

 

[fortified_concept]

Nope, I don't know what you're talking about. This consensus you speak about totally eluded me. And I love these mental pictures I get with like 2-3 HD DVD fans yelling "two format future" into the face of an unrelenting wave of Blu faced warriors ready to break their equipment and force them to buy $600 BR players. :lol

That's hilarious the way some of you view this HD disc situation.

Oh you can't be serious. You're trying to change history now? Everyone agreed that there can't be two formats which, afterall, is perfectly logical. We've agreed to that loooong ago so I'm not gonna waste my time with your new desperate talking point. Anyone sane enough will tell you that two format future can't and won't exist.

 

[kaching]

It's not unlike an election; you can determine the result even if all the votes aren't in yet; as long as critical mass is reached.

Except an election doesn't take place over several years. All your data about critical mass in an election comes in over a much shorter time period and that's why you can evaluate so quickly. Even being as bullish as to give BD the chances of succeeding as quickly as DVD did, we still wouldn't be seeing critical mass for another 3-4 yrs.

Been neutral is about standing back until you have enough information in order to make a determination; not giving into biases based on attributes other than what matters.

People are neutral because they could care less. Being neutral happens until such time that you see something about one or the other that appeals to you enough to invest. Regardless of whether BD beats out HD-DVD in the near term, some facts will remain the same for awhile: significantly higher prices than DVD, pitifully small libraries in comparison to DVD, uncertain future about fair use, etc. There's plenty of reasons for people to remain neutral even if Toshiba and Universal conceded to BD tomorrow.

What does HD-DVD have left that could do anything but stagnate the market? Is that even an 'at best' situation?

Even if that's all it does, that by itself speaks to how far we are from a truly stable HD disc market.

 

[djkimothy]

hmm got me there. I have wished I could lend out some of my blu-rays without also lending my PS3 :lol

I think we should look at people that want to support a HD disc format as on the same side. We have enough of a fight against the embeded DVD and the looming digital distribustion whackos. Eventualy one HD disc will fade out, so why give the loyal HD-DVD people and excuse to revert to DVD or look ahead to the fools dream of DD? We need everyone we can get!

Very true, we need everyone on the HD wagon so prices will go down fast for when the time I move out, a 40" 1080p tv is nothing to be concerned by.

 

[AstroLad]

It's kind of a bummer how few titles there are currently available on either format. I've got my PS3 coming in Wed. and my new TV as well and I'm already at that "can't go back" stage but for now it seems that only the blockbuster titles are out. The one good thing is that I rarely watch blockbusters (e.g., PoTC) so now I have an excuse to.

 

[Petrarca]

When even the Blu-ray fans think you're annoying Crayon...I dunno, time to chill out or leave the thread.

To be honest, I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet as you're consistently attacking HD-DVD fans.

This is blu-ray thread actually, so HD-DVD fans the ones been shitting on the thread

 

[VanMardigan]

Oh you can't be serious. You're trying to change history now? Everyone agreed that there can't be two formats which, afterall, is perfectly logical. We've agreed to that loooong ago so I'm not gonna waste my time with your new desperate talking point.

I think you seriously have me confused with someone else. changing history? desperate talking point? What are you talking about? What's this desperation you speak of?

Anyone sane enough will tell you that two format future can't and won't exist.

Did you read the article I posted one page back? Are all those people insane too?

This is blu-ray thread actually, so HD-DVD fans the ones been shitting on the thread

This thread is now the de facto one for both Blu Ray and HD DVD discussion. Try again.

 

[fortified_concept]

Except an election doesn't take place over several years. All your data about critical mass in an election comes in over a much shorter time period and that's why you can evaluate so quickly. Even being as bullish as to give BD the chances of succeeding as quickly as DVD did, we still wouldn't be seeing critical mass for another 3-4 yrs.

People are neutral because they could care less. Being neutral happens until such time that you see something about one or the other that appeals to you enough to invest. Regardless of whether BD beats out HD-DVD in the near term, some facts will remain the same for awhile: significantly higher prices than DVD, pitifully small libraries in comparison to DVD, uncertain future about fair use, etc. There's plenty of reasons for people to remain neutral even if Toshiba and Universal conceded to BD tomorrow.

Even if that's all it does, that by itself speaks to how far we are from a truly stable HD disc market.

I agree. Crayon's argument is fundamentally flawed because he doesn't take into consideration people who don't have preferences or grudges against a certain company or have enough money to buy everything, and thus the don't care which format will win. Having said that, people like Manabyte and The Main Event who pretend to be neutral have made everyone suspicious about people who claim to be neutral, especially now that HD DVD is losing badly.

 

[jjasper]

It's kind of a bummer how few titles there are currently available on either format. I've got my PS3 coming in Wed. and my new TV as well and I'm already at that "can't go back" stage but for now it seems that only the blockbuster titles are out. The one good thing is that I rarely watch blockbusters (e.g., PoTC) so now I have an excuse to.

Unforunately that is how it has to be at this stage. The big money makes must come out to force adoption to create a market for all titles.

There are quite a few of the "blockbuster" type movies as well as some smaller ones that are well worth owning on both formats.

 

[fortified_concept]

I think you seriously have me confused with someone else. changing history? desperate talking point? What are you talking about? What's this desperation you speak of?

You're VanMardigan the very very loyal HD DVD fan that has spent hours in this thread defending HD DVD.

 

[VanMardigan]

You're VanMardigan the very very loyal HD DVD fan that has spent hours in this thread defending HD DVD.

And who hasn't joined any consensus on how many formats can survive or had "talking points" about anything and has never ever disputed Blu Ray's lead this year or even questioned the Ps3's appeal as a Blu Ray player.

That's the one.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Except an election doesn't take place over several years. All your data about critical mass in an election comes in over a much shorter time period and that's why you can evaluate so quickly. Even being as bullish as to give BD the chances of succeeding as quickly as DVD did, we still wouldn't be seeing critical mass for another 3-4 yrs.

People are neutral because they could care less. Being neutral happens until such time that you see something about one or the other that appeals to you enough to invest. Regardless of whether BD beats out HD-DVD in the near term, some facts will remain the same for awhile: significantly higher prices than DVD, pitifully small libraries in comparison to DVD, uncertain future about fair use, etc. There's plenty of reasons for people to remain neutral even if Toshiba and Universal conceded to BD tomorrow.

Even if that's all it does, that by itself speaks to how far we are from a truly stable HD disc market.

Critical momentum (in this HD format war).

And HD been neutral on HD format doesn't mean been ambivalent on them.

You're going to get people that stand back and see what's going on, because they don't know enough/don't care enough to avail themselves of what's out there. Far enough; you'll get those people.

My concerns are more limited to the people that do give a damn and care to find out what's happening. To those people; the position of both BD and HD-DVD are obvious.

BD will be the reigning HD standard, while HD-DVD is a dying format.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Van, I swear you are being obtuse because you like to tweak the BluRay fans, and you feel justified becuase of the people (Crayon, Petrarca) who go over the line. Cut it out.

You may never personally have bought the one-format-future idea, but to act like it wasn't the prevailing thought for the bulk of HD-DVD's existence and certainly here on GAF threads is willful ignorance.

 

[Petrarca]

This thread is now the de facto one for both Blu Ray and HD DVD discussion. Try again.

let me re-phrase that, this is the de facto thread of how Blu-ray beating the shit out of your favorite format, and you just can't accept that the fact that you spent thousands of dollars on a dying format

 

[fortified_concept]

And who hasn't joined any consensus on how many formats can survive or had "talking points" about anything and has never ever disputed Blu Ray's lead this year or even questioned the Ps3's appeal as a Blu Ray player.

That's the one.

Oh I know what you're doing. You quote a lame article with lame arguments about a two format future, you argue with anyone who says that the new "two format future" talking point is bullshit and when you're cornered you act like you're not implying anything about a viable two format future.

gg bye bye I'm not wasting my time with you.

 

[Days like these...]

Ok anyone else here think crayon is really zaptruder? Petrarca now you're making blu ray fans look bad. Ignatz you're no longer douchey I apologie.

 

[wasting]

let me re-phrase that, this is the de facto thread of how Blu-ray beating the shit out of your favorite format, and you just can't accept that the fact that you spent thousands of dollars on a dying format

:lol :lol :lol

 

[fortified_concept]

Critical momentum (in this HD format war).

And HD been neutral on HD format doesn't mean been ambivalent on them.

You're going to get people that stand back and see what's going on, because they don't know enough/don't care enough to avail themselves of what's out there. Far enough; you'll get those people.

My concerns are more limited to the people that do give a damn and care to find out what's happening. To those people; the position of both BD and HD-DVD are obvious.

BD will be the reigning HD standard, while HD-DVD is a dying format.

People who pretend to be neutral 99% of the time are transparent as hell

Spoiler

Manabyte, The Main Event

. Matrix for example doesn't seem one of these people and most probably isn't. He just doesn't care. As simple as that.

 

[VanMardigan]

Van, I swear you are being obtuse because you like to tweak the BluRay fans, and you feel justified becuase of the people (Crayon, Petrarca) who go over the line. Cut it out.

You may never personally have bought the one-format-future idea, but to act like it wasn't the prevailing thought for the bulk of HD-DVD's existence and certainly here on GAF threads is willful ignorance.

I'm not being obtuse, I wasn't even here then. I bought my HD DVD add-on in MARCH for $163. That's when I began posting about the format wars, first in the old HD DVD thread, and then in this thread after that one faded. Whether that was the "prevailing thought" or not eludes me, because I've not been involved as long as most of you in this so called war. And maybe that's where the confusion sets in. People talk about "desperation" and all that other crap, and I'm genuinely amused, because aside from the fact that I've spent less than most everyone else here on HD media, I'm very satisfied with HD DVD and none of the recent events have changed my perception of the format. I've stated before in this thread that Universal going Blu Ray would be the tipping point for me, if it ever happens. Otherwise, I'll be HD DVD until Ps3 drops in price enough for me to warrant a purchase. I know I've posted a ton in this thread since I got my HD DVD drive, but I just haven't really been here all that long.

edit: let me re-phrase that, this is the de facto thread of how Blu-ray beating the shit out of your favorite format, and you just can't accept that the fact that you spent thousands of dollars on a dying format

except I've spent less money on HD DVD than you have on your Blu Ray player, whichever one it is. A LOT LESS.

edit: fc, how is the article "lame" now? Because it doesn't support your views? I don't get it, and I don't understand how crayon and petrarca get away with so much crap in their posts without being banned.

 

[kaching]

My concerns are more limited to the people that do give a damn and care to find out what's happening. To those people; the position of both BD and HD-DVD are obvious.

BD will be the reigning HD standard, while HD-DVD is a dying format.

The declarations you've made aimed at the limited group of enthusiasts won't make much of a difference while the mass market remains unconvinced/neutral/ambivalent/whatever.

If you truly felt the positions of both BD and HD-DVD are as obviously lopsided as you claim, I doubt that you'd actually spend as much time as you have on convincing HD-DVD fans to give up on their format.

 

[Matrix]

Anyone use custom covers here?

I just tried this Casino Royale one out and like it better than the original one it came with.

 

[jjasper]

:lol :lol :lol

I think the lols are less effective when you don't try to fake hide them behind spoiler tags

Anyone use custom covers here?

I just tried this Casino Royale one out and like it better than the original one it came with.

I have thought about it because of the horrible Disney/Universal metalic swoop but was worried that it would look cheap because of the paper used.

 

[Matrix]

I have thought about it because of the horrible Disney/Universal metalic swoop but was worried that it would look cheap because of the paper used.

Aslong as you use some nice glossy paper and download a high res version,doesnt look cheap at all

Some of the covers on HD discs are awful.

edit- yea Van it is

 

[VanMardigan]

I like that cover better as well, Matrix. Isn't that the one used for the movie poster?

 

[AstroLad]

I just want The Office in HD. D'oh!

 

[Meier]

I simply cant fathom a future with those hideous blue cases on my shelves. That's the worst part about it.