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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
- Thread starter HyperionX
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Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
StoOgE said:
so I don't check your post history before making a post, sue me!Point is, Bill is been painted as Blu-ray biased by fans of HD-DVD, despite strong and careful reasoning. It's simply the results are overwhelmingly in favour of Blu-ray, so anyone that's at base neutral, but with a decent understanding of the industry is left with little or no choice but to make the determination that he and his team has; that is, it's simply a matter of time before HD-DVD concede, because Blu-ray has already won.
It's disingenious to attack the guy for been biased when the facts and figures are what are causing the skew.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Check out Disney's new ad. A jab at "Look and Sound of Perfect"
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Where is that ad from? Oh, and I'm glad you guys have called the format war over. Hopefully Toshiba/MS/Universal are reading this thread.
Oh, and I agree that the weekly numbers are hugely disappointing for HD DVD. I was expecting at least 60/40 BD.
Oh, and I agree that the weekly numbers are hugely disappointing for HD DVD. I was expecting at least 60/40 BD.
Crayon Shinchan said:
The reason I dont like Bill Hunt is simple.
Back when DIVX/DVD were at war and Disney and Fox were exclusive to DIVX because of its draconian DRM restrictions, Bill Hunt would attack them. Bill Hunt made his name as an advocate for consumer rights when it came to movie ownership.
Now, he backs BRD, which is fine.. but now that Disney and Fox are exclusive to BRD because of BR+ and its very restrictive DRM not only does he not have a problem with BR+.. he uses Disney and Fox's exclusivity as a good reason to back BRD.
Either he was being disingenious about caring about consumer rights back then (i.e. he prefered DVD and just used that as a reason to bash DIVX) or he is being disingenious now by ignoring everything he used to stand for because his format of choice has the restirctive DRM.
He can back BRD and argue against BR+ at the same time.. and my gut tells me he doesnt like it.. but he doesnt want to hurt the perception of BRD so he keeps his mouth shut. My big fear is studios know consumers dont want BR+.. so they wont use it until they have defeated HDDVD and there is no choice.. then they will roll it out and we'll be stuck.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
distantmantra said:
Why? I don't get it. Yes I know about aspect ratios and all, but many of those same movies have full screen versions on DVD right now. What's the problem with doing the samething with Blu-ray disc?
I have a 50" 720p DLP HDTV and I want to see 50" worth of HD in my movies. Not some stupid 35" worth.
Then to make it worse they kick you in the nuts by showing you the Extras in HD in it's full screen holyness.
StoOgE said:
What? Are you seriously arguing this? They're, like, completely different situations. DIVX was about controlling when and how a person could watch the purchased movie in the main playback device for said movies. DRM concerning Blu-ray and HD-DVD is all about using the enclosed content in ways beyond the main and primary means of playback.
mckmas8808 said:
This basically proves that no, you DON'T know about aspect ratios. Or, at least, you know about them, but don't at all understand them.
dynamitejim
Member
StoOgE said:
The only disingenious one is you. The were a multitude of problems with DIVX. No one who works so closely covering the industry would argue against these companies having a right to try and protect their content from being copied. That's not even what DIVX was about either. DIVX was a rental format. And it was horribly, horribly thought out.
The problems with DIVX were that you needed a phone line and didn't actually "own" the movie once you paid for it, you were really renting it. The disc would be useless in 24 hours. Later discs included the option to actually own it, but you had to register the disc over a phone line. And if the company that ran this operation went out of business or the format died, you'd be screwed. The fact you try to compare this to a stronger form of copy protection is ludicrous. And DVD supporters railed against Fox and Disney's exclusive support of DIVX because their DIVX releases were pan and scan and had no special features. There was no incentive to get them, you might as well just have rented the VHS version instead of buying into a stupid format.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Petrarca said:why? you gotta problem with black?
would it make you happier, if it was white bars?!?
:lol
I love GAF. No it wouldn't. But I didn't now the Full screen versions on DVD were 4:3. If that's the case then screw it. I don't want to see no bloated looking people on my Blurays.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
StoOgE said:
Except BD+ is much of a none-issue right now. It's an optional layer of protection, that can be draconian, not unlike the HDCP requirements, but isn't been implemented as yet. What's disingenious is making it out like some sort of format breaking feature and equating it with a system that had you paying per view.
dynamitejim said:
1) Look up the word disingenious.
2) There may have been a multitude of problems with DIVX, but one of the ones Bill Hunt used a TON was the DRM... and he attacked the studios that backed it exclusively.
3) I know what DIVX was, I actually still have an old player laying around somewhere.
I never said that the DRM in BR+ is as bad for consumers as DIVX was.. but its extremely restrictive especially in regards to hardware modification. It might do alot to prevent people from pirating the movies.. but it also hurts consumers that actually BOUGHT the product.
I dont even have that big of an issue with BR+. I dont like it, but Im willing to buy a BRD player regardless of it. My issue is with Bill Hunt who was consumer advocate guy 10 years ago not even batting an eye at BR+.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I'm with you there. I'd just like to have an option to have some movies fill the whole widescreen, especially because on 720p TVs that way you see the full vertical resolution and near 1:1 pixel mapping, picture is otherwise shrunk.mckmas8808 said:
We can do that on PS3 with downloadable videos, but can't do that with DVDs and BRs. For example, I like watching the same trailer in both zoomed and unzoomed format, they both look interesting in a different way. Another thing is, with Plasma screens, it's better avoided to have any black bars for prolonged periods. Of course, duration of one, or even few movies won't be enough to do any permanent damage, but still.
I think that rumored 2.0 update list had the zoom function for DVD/BR playback, btw.
Yeah, but he's talking about widescreen (16:9) Pan & Scan, which is really nowhere near as bad as 4:3 Pan & Scan.Killthee said:
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Petrarca said:oh Disney you bad boy!!
Can't wait to see Holiday 2007 massacre
Spidey 3
Pirates 3
Fantastic Four 2
Ratatoulie
Die Hard 4
vs
Evan Almighty
Knocked UP
And
Bourne Ultimatum
I now pronounce you Chuck & Larry
and possibly The Kingdom
BR still has the bigger titles, for sure.
Crayon Shinchan said:
I never said it was a format breaking feature. Ive even said I'll put up with it if I have to.
My issue isnt with BR+ per se. Its Bill Hunt pretending like it isnt an issue when he used to be so big into DRM rights for consumers.
Edit: I like how I started out by simply saying "Take what he says with a grain of salt".. then Crayon shoved words in my mouth about how I hate BRD (when I dont) and that I backed Amir blindly (which I dont).. then I simply state why I dont like Bill Hunt for having double standards... then Im attacked for all other kinds of stuff I never said.
Lets make this very clear for everyone:
1) I own an HDDVD player because I like HDi and wanted an HD format.
2) I am looking into a BRD player in the next 4-5 months because I watch movies not formats... I want some movies that arent on HDDVD
3) I really want BRJ to take off in a big way. HDi is my primary reason for supporting HDDVD at this point.
4) Im not crazy about BR+, but will put up with it.
5) Amir, Bill Hunt and any other fanboys should be listened to and taken with a grain of salt.
6) I dont like Bill Hunt because he applies double standards like mad.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
The Ps3 is BR's main driving force (and rightfully so), but I don't see the Ps3 making a dent at $499 this year with the way MS is totally dominating them right now. That's why this holiday season is so important for HD DVD.
If they don't make a dent, meaning that they don't improve their 70/30 standing (so far this year), there won't be much left for them to do. The Ps3 will likely to continue rapidly dropping in price so by the first quarter of next year, it may already be $399. That's a very attractive price for me.
If they don't make a dent, meaning that they don't improve their 70/30 standing (so far this year), there won't be much left for them to do. The Ps3 will likely to continue rapidly dropping in price so by the first quarter of next year, it may already be $399. That's a very attractive price for me.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
SRG01 said:No, the main driving force behind BD is content.
So, if you keep the releases the same, but take away Ps3...........we still have a 70/30 Blu Ray lead???
You've got to be kidding me.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Killthee said:Here's a GIF to give you an idea of how Pan and Scan is used to create a fullscreen image out of a widescreen movie. The people aren't bloated, but you lose a huge chunk of the movie.
OH SNAP! That's what Pan and Scan? Nice technology. Hmmm...now I'm not sure what I want for Blu-ray.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I hate black bars as well, but I don't want 4:3 content, and I don't want pan and scan. I just wish more directors shot in 16:9.
mckmass: doesn't your tv allow you to zoom in?
I know mine doesn't, but my friend's tv (lcd) allows him to zoom in and eliminate the black bars. It's not a huge zoom, the difference isn't very noticeable for me.
mckmass: doesn't your tv allow you to zoom in?
I know mine doesn't, but my friend's tv (lcd) allows him to zoom in and eliminate the black bars. It's not a huge zoom, the difference isn't very noticeable for me.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
StoOgE said:
I think if you're criticizing Bill for his positions, you've misunderstood his motivations and the contexts in which those opinions have been made.
It has been around or over 10 years since DivX; much has changed since... and Bill doesn't seem to have stopped advocating for the consumer.
To be honest... I have no idea what parts of the DRM of DivX bill was arguing against, and what parts of the BD+ DRM that makes it so much more intrusive than AACS, but I think even without knowing the specifics, there can probably be a case made for the differences between the DivX stuff and the BD+ stuff.
And I apologize for unfairly grouping you with the rest of the HD-DVD fanboys, but to be honest, the sly argumentative techniques that are been used have become quite grating, and as a result anyone that even hints at that sort of disingineuty recieves my ire.
Attacking a relatively neutral, but consumer interest driven advocate, while quoting verbatim a representative that has obvious vested interests of the other side, is about par the course for people still sitting in the losing camp. Along with desperate attempts to FORCE publishers to publish for their format, it sets a pretty clear tone for the predicament that the HD-DVD camp is in.
mckmas8808 said:
...what? The orange box is showing what you get in pan and scan. For EVERY single frame of film you see during pan & scan, you're missing half of the originally filmed scene. How is that "nice technology"?
I have to say, I've never, ever understood people who had such a problem with "the black bars" that they were willing to sacrifice part of the film in order to get rid of them.
The Main Event
Member
Petrarca said:
1408 will be only on HD DVD.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
So Bill Hunt's well-reasoned take shoudl be dismissed becuase he does not assess BD+ as you do, equating it with a DRM scheme which required dial-up verification over a phone line?
"DRM" is a blanket term, and equating the very concrete, restrictive and annoying DRM in DIVX (which was designed to make the consumer pay over and over again) with the DRM that BD+ offers (making it hard, *possibly*, to mod your own hardware, if you're into that) is.... disingenous.
So no, I wouldn't call that "applying double standards like mad." I'd call that a rational distinction.
"DRM" is a blanket term, and equating the very concrete, restrictive and annoying DRM in DIVX (which was designed to make the consumer pay over and over again) with the DRM that BD+ offers (making it hard, *possibly*, to mod your own hardware, if you're into that) is.... disingenous.
So no, I wouldn't call that "applying double standards like mad." I'd call that a rational distinction.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
shidoshi said:
Part of it is mental (just seeing the damn black bars is annoying), and part of it has to do with not wanting any wasted real estate on your expensive HDTV. You don't know how many people I know that are pissed when they buy a widescreen tv and still get black bars. They could care less about OAR.
Personally, I have on occasion just rented the full frame version of a film to avoid the black bars. Most of the time, what you're missing isn't anywhere near as dramatic as that gif.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
ManaByte said:
If you can find exactly where he says "I'm a 100% Blu-ray fanboy", then I will leave this thread permanently.
But, like I said; support != fanboy.
It's shit like this, where you idiots label the guy as a fanboy, because he's put his support behind Bluray that needs to stop.
The guy and his team have made lengthy and objective considerations on the state of affair of the industry as is and have come to the conclusion that; a single format is best for the industry, and it seems at this point, there's no longer anything that HD-DVD can do to turn the tide.
The only thing we're waiting on is their official concession; when Universal (and Weinstein following suit shortly thereafter) turns neutral.
If this is accurate... then I'm going to have to retract any sort of apology against stooge. He really is, a stooge.
Petrarca said:oh Disney you bad boy!!
Can't wait to see Holiday 2007 massacre
Spidey 3
Pirates 3
Fantastic Four 2
Ratatoulie
Die Hard 4
vs
Evan Almighty
Knocked UP
and thats the reason i dont support BluRay yet. i hate all those movies except Die Hard and Fantastic Four. The other three are a joke, overhyped bad movies. Well Ratatoulie i dont even know anything about cause i dont watch cartoons, so that counts that out along with every Disney movie.
shidoshi said:
Who the hell are studios to decide what is and isn't part of the intended use of a product you buy? Honestly, if you like getting ****ed up the ass, good for you. Some people don't.
When I buy something, I expect to be able to use it however I want. That goes as much for backup copies, loading every DVD I own onto a hard drive to use as a digital jukebox, or sticking it in a microwave and putting on a good light show.
None of those things are copyright violations. In fact, traditionally, they've all been protected by copyright law. They have no business deciding for me what I can and can not do.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
ManaByte said:
Relatively unbiased, is what I think he meant to say. An unbiased person weighing the evidence to date is going to pick BluRay.
Calling him a fanboy is pretty immature, since he's shown no fanboyishness.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
gkrykewy said:
Yeah, but HD material still looks great like that, unlike dvd.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
VanMardigan said:
The PS3 is only the driving force until the players drop below the PS3 price (as they just have) and continue to drop (as they will). I'll be a month's ban that you can find street-priced BluRay players that aren't discontinued models for <$300 by Christmas. I wasn't sure a month ago, but the $500 MSRP on the new Sony player makes me confident.
One of the most confusing things to me is how pro HD-DVD people are so certain that HD-DVD player prices will drop and that BluRay player prices won't. How do people reconcile that to themselves?
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