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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
- Thread starter HyperionX
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Honestly, the only thing really confusing anymore is how pro HD DVD people are still pretending that HD DVD has any chance whatsoever.Ignatz Mouse said:
I've seen all the Blu-ray guys pussyfooting around the HD DVD guys for the last few weeks, and outside of a few snide comments, I've pretty much done the same. But at this point, it is ten-thousand-circus-clowns-speeding-down-the-streets-on-god-damned-lollerskates levels of ridiculous to even think that HD DVD will survive very far into 2008, let alone have an actual chance to win or co-exist. This format war is over, whether Toshiba has thrown in the towel or not.
Sharp Readies First Blu-ray Player for Fall Release
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/new...ies_First_Blu-ray_Player_for_Fall_Release/749
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/new...ies_First_Blu-ray_Player_for_Fall_Release/749
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
Wrong. You think a $300 BRD player (if indeed one comes out this year at that price point) is going to outsell Ps3? Ps3 will continue to be the driving force behind Blu Ray until mainstream adoption of the format happens. I think $199 or below is probably the magic number, but if you think that a $300 dedicated Blu Ray player is going to somehow carry the format, you are mistaken.
Ignatz Mouse said:
no, its that the HD DVD player prices will drop to reasonable levels for most consumers.
i for one had a hard time buying the xbox 360 add on for 200 dollars cause i thought it was too much. so average consumers wont be willing to spend upwards of 200 dollars on an hd player.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
methane47 said:
and yet again, you manage to add nothing to the discussion.
I'll edit the other stuff out, I'm done with you.
Show me some evidence. The new sales report is all I need to point at for argument. Blu-ray, 2:1, in a week where there were only two Blu-ray releases that also came out for HD DVD in addition to a load of Universal exclusives. You can look back in the last five, ten, twenty pages of this thread. The evidence says No Effing Way is HD DVD going to gain any more ground.maharg said:
And please, don't make me out to be some kind of Sony-hugging fanboy by pretending to know what I want. I *want* HD DVD to have no chance? What I *want* is a one-format future. Which is exactly what is happening. If it were an HD DVD future I'd be rocking the hell out of a Toshiba player, watching the living shit out of Batman Begins and The 40-Year Old Virgin. There is no HD DVD future, though, so I will wait until Universal jumps on board and finally -- officially -- ends this ridiculous war that is being dragged out solely because they want to milk every penny out of the hopeful HD DVD crowd before they drop the betrayalton bomb on their faithful supporters and jump ship over to greener (Blu-er?) pastures.
(Please don't use a Nintendo argument, either. Anyone who knew anything about Nintendo last generation knew that Nintendo profited on everything, and in addition to making pretty decent money in the console space by just catering to their existing fanbase, they also had a MEGA-lucrative handheld monopoly. No one with any sense thought Nintendo was on the way out last generation.)
There is no way that you can't read the writing on the wall, whether you want to fence-sit and take the high road or not. Your stance though, really just makes it seem like you want HD DVD to have a chance. That, of course, is not the same thing as HD DVD *having* a chance.
methane47
Member
Zombie James
Banned
Thar be a lot of exclusives...
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
I just hope that a lot of music labels start releasing concerts on Blu-Ray/HD-DVD in larger quantities than they are now.
I'll be picking up Alice Cooper Live next week on Blu-Ray (if I can find it) but I would love to see some Metal bands release on the format.
I'll be picking up Alice Cooper Live next week on Blu-Ray (if I can find it) but I would love to see some Metal bands release on the format.
Chemo said:
Since you don't see any difference, the two are the same. I don't give two shits about your motivation and I never said I did. The fact is, it's still pretty early in the game, and people in this thread are getting caught up in a massive circle jerk that has little to no relevance to reality. Universal has been predicted by this thread to go neutral *any day now* for over half a year now. It's like the crazy guy on the street corner talking about the end being neigh. If this thread were in touch with reality, it would have noticed this.
I'm not saying anything about what I want here at all. I don't give two shits. I think they're both flops and I *always have*. If it's my turn to be preemptively righteous, I'll suggest that you not assume this is some "omg last ditch effort." You could look at my posts going back two years saying I think they're both disasters in their own special way.
What I'm saying is, it ain't over until the fat lady sings. The tech market is fickle, and especially so on premium products. Things can change very fast. If you can't see that, you're as delusional as the people who think HD-DVD is going to win based on what they see right now.
This thread is, frankly, just full of the blind spitting in the eyes of the blind.
maharg said:
Other than some major fanboys ... most have been predicting Universal to go neutral in early 2008.
You are saying this thread needs a touch of reality, and at the same time stating they are both flops. While they aren't lighting the world afire, they are hardly considered flops based on sales versus format-release.
The tech market is fickle, but format-establishment is a bit of a different beast. I can't think of a historical example of a competing format coming back from 'trending' the way HD DVD SW sales have for as long as they have. In general, things don't usually change very fast in this situation. Something very significant would need to occur.
I don't entirely disagree.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
maharg said:
That post is all hyperbole, all bile, and no substance.
Tech market may be fickle; but it's not without logic. Playstation brand doesn't just fall to last place because gamers are fickle; it does so because it's priced far beyond the threshold of the price elasticity that most of the market is willing to accept.
There simply aren't all that many cards left to play out in this game; Blu-ray has BDJava+ and Universal neutrality to play out, and HD-DVD has combo players?
Unless you have a reason to believe that there's merit to Toshiba and MS's pending lawsuit in the EU (which if has merit would make the war 'interesting', albeit to the great chargrin of Bluray fans AND those after a single unified format), then there's nothing that's reasonably foreseeable, other than how long Universal can hold onto exclusiveness, that HD-DVD proponents can do to affect the market in their favour.
Crayon Shinchan said:
:lol okay, Zaptru... I mean, Crayon.
This thread is practically unreadable due to the bickering and fanboy monkey crap thrown from both camps. It would be better suited for AVS or the like.
maharg hit the nail on the head. There have been many articles stating this, but Katzenberg sums it up well:
Jeffrey Katzenberg said:
I, for one, welcome our Laserdisc successor(s).
Well thanks for correcting all of us idiots /eyeroll.maharg said:
Universal doesnt have a chance to come back.
And frankly I couldnt care less if HD optical discs are Niche, as long as we keep getting new releases like we are now with a sprinkle of catalogue titles I will be perfectly happy. However, Blu-ray outpacing DVD in comparable points in their life certainly does not qualify as a "flop."
And no maharg didnt hit any nail on the head, he came in by his own admission being arrogant know-it-all, to try and "correct" the "fanboys" and bring the "thread back to reality" despite the fact that the thread is fairly well based in reality, outside of a few "zomg universal is dead" or "hd doa" comments after the sales numbers come out.
If you dont want an HD optical disc fine, but personally i dont want to watch shitty dvds ever again.
Except for, despite your best efforts, almost nothing you said is actually based in reality. You said *that you think they are both flops,* yet are mad or angry/whatever that a couple of fanboys like to gloat and call for the neutrality of Universal. Awfully hypocritical if you ask me.maharg said:
So you dont like fanboys, we get it, big deal. This thread is piddly when compared to half the crap that AVS has.
As for actual reality, the reality of the situation is, while neither format does squat when compared to DVD, HD DVD does leagues worse than Blu-ray as evidenced by this weeks sales numbers, when Blu-ray had 2 titles which were also available on HD DVD, which had 12 other titles to go along with those two. Honestly thats just sad, and yes it does mean that HD DVD is on its way out if it cant even match the sales of blu-ray when it has 14 titles to 2 titles released the same week.
And yes i too would like neutrality from Universal, it would go a long ways to ending this stupid format war that we should have never had. And it would go a long ways to actually establishing one HD format that may, *may* stand a chance against DVD, or at the very least creating a strong niche format.
I never said you gave a shit about my motivation. You made a statement about what I want that was inaccurate, and I cleared it up. I disagree with basically everything you've said in this thread, and it sucks that you decided to be borderline insulting to me and then not even have the decency to legitimately back up your "points."maharg said:
- "Tech market is fickle" -- this is a personal observation, and while it may be true, if you're going to make an argument against sales data/install base/studio support/momentum, you should probably have something more concrete.
- "Universal has been predicted by this thread to go neutral *any day now* for over half a year now" -- outside of a false-alarm news story that implied that they were going neutral in the spring, practically everyone has expected Universal to stay HD DVD exclusive at least until the end of the 2007 holiday season, since that's where they intend to make their biggest salvo.
- Calling me delusional, saying you don't give a shit (or two), saying we're caught up in a massive circle jerk, insinuating loss of touch with reality -- not quite as effective as sales data or market trends.
The numbers don't lie. Blu-ray is beating the shit out of HD DVD (and tracking faster than DVD at this stage in DVD's life), yet you are adamant in insinuating that this could just stop on a dime and somehow transform into an HD DVD juggernaut? (Regardless of whether or not you think they're both flops -- you have insinuated that HD DVD has a chance.) This is true momentum, not a neck-and-neck horse race. I guess maybe they could discontinue the PS3 next month? Or perhaps all Wiis will start coming with HD DVD playback capabilities? Or maybe Sony will lose the rights to all three Spider-Man films and Buena Vista's exclusivity deal to Toshiba in a poker game. Because at this point, that's what it's going to take to turn the tide of this war. Content? Blu-ray. Software sales? Blu-ray. Hardware install base? Blu-ray. Momentum? Blu-ray. I shouldn't even have to spell that out for you. I'm using logic and you're using "I really just don't give a **** and think these formats are both bombs, so neither one could possibly win + you guys are idiots and people are fickle" as your argument.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
weehomer said:
Ah, so if HD-DVD loses, you would rather both lose... Why am I not surprised?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4325600#post4325600
Not to mention you expressed disapointment over not preordering a HD-DVD addon for 360
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
VanMardigan said:
I think a $300 player will carry the format. It may not outsell PS3, but it will drive a huge amount of software in addition to the PS3.
Suikoguy said:
LOL. Read into that whatever you want. I have no problem with buying HD-DVD or Blu-ray (I have both, as I've prevously said), but you partisan zealots are crazy with your rants.
Please, quote me a year from now when neither format is making a dent in DVD sales. It should be fun.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
weehomer said:
It took DVD years to put a dent in VHS. What will matter is how well a format is supported by software.
DarkJediKnight
Member
weehomer said:
I wish people would stop throwing the "I own both formats" line when their neutrality is concerned. It sounds like the "I don't hate black people; I have black friends" line.
I own both formats as well. 32 Blu-rays and 11 HD DVDs. I don't think anyone here will confuse me for being neutral. I support Blu-ray but I also don't hate HD DVD. IMO, TRUE neutral people (there are very few of these) are those who don't get into pissing matches - and since I'm not one of those, I do get my zipper wet.
ohhmygawww. it's retarded to be a fanboy and it's also retarded to be "netural" at this point in time. :lol since we now see a clear winner... and most "neutral" and blu-ray supporters want "one format to rule them all" then stop buying the other one and let things happen sooner rather than later. of course hd-dvd has some movies blu-ray doesn't... but in the future blu-ray will have them... duh.. have fun buying them again. and what does it matter if the hd format dents dvd sales or not. one is hd, one is sd. they can and will coexist for quite a while. hd tv's wont take over sd tv's anytime soon. it's nothing like dvd vs. vhs. so thats irrelevant to bring up. anyways. as far as i go... i don't own either format. i'm waiting for a winner and a cheap player. and since blu-ray is and has been in the lead... let's end this please. oh and i like the blue casing better. ::waits patiently to start watching hd movies on my 50 inch"
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
If digital distribution was a major factor, it would have already killed off CD sales entirely.
But while CD purchases have decreased a considerable amount since music downloads entered the arena, in the realm of legitimate purchases, it still holds onto majority share.
I don't think there's much doubt that music piracy is a major factor in how the market place is working out right now...
And when you consider piracy to be a major force in how the market place works; then it's already a massive issue for traditional SD media; and yet, that still seems to still be trucking along quite well.
So... HD media, even with downloadable piracy, and with online distribution competition, will still create a far market share of its own, just perfectly fine.
But while CD purchases have decreased a considerable amount since music downloads entered the arena, in the realm of legitimate purchases, it still holds onto majority share.
I don't think there's much doubt that music piracy is a major factor in how the market place is working out right now...
And when you consider piracy to be a major force in how the market place works; then it's already a massive issue for traditional SD media; and yet, that still seems to still be trucking along quite well.
So... HD media, even with downloadable piracy, and with online distribution competition, will still create a far market share of its own, just perfectly fine.
i can understand peoples' desire for cheaper players from a surely personal point of view (you want one and don't want to pay a lot for it).
But stop mixing that up with overall format adoption. At this stage in its life you don't need 100 dollar supermarket players. It seems to be the only mantra hd-dvd proponents have. Its not like toshiba want to spunk away all their margin.
But stop mixing that up with overall format adoption. At this stage in its life you don't need 100 dollar supermarket players. It seems to be the only mantra hd-dvd proponents have. Its not like toshiba want to spunk away all their margin.
maharg said:
It's not actually. There's really not much else that HD DVD can do to spur sales except to keep lowering the system price and we all know how great that is doing for software sales. The game is already over. The cards have been layed on the table and the chips are down. The only thing left to do is to sweep the floor, turn off the lights and call it a night.
I hate this pissing match. The only thing this war does is stop people from buying into the HD format and the longer it takes the less likely it will hold.
Forsete said:
Indeed my friend. Serious rape indeed.
14 HD-DVD releases vs 2 BD releases and BD still took the week 65% vs 35%
Oni Jazar said:Here are the titles that came out last week:
HD DVD
* American Me (Universal)
* Army of Darkness (Re-issue) (Universal)
* Being John Malkovich (Universal)
* The Big Lebowski (Universal)
* Black Snake Moan (Paramount)
* Bulletproof (Universal)
* Dead Silence (Universal)
* Freedom: 1 (Bandai Visual)
* Hustle & Flow (Paramount)
* Mallrats (Universal)
* Meet Joe Black (Universal)
* Mystery Men (Universal)
* Unleashed (Re-issue) (Universal)
* The Watcher (Universal)
Blu-ray
* Black Snake Moan (Paramount)
* Hustle & Flow (Paramount)
I thought HD DVD would have gotten a lot closer to BD this week instead of only 35% sales.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
This is the worst topic in current circulation on the board... 
HD-DVD has no chance, even if I personally wish it did. Blu-Ray has Fox, Sony, and Disney exclusive. How the hell WOULD Hd-DVD have a chance?
That said, I enjoy quite a bit of the Universal back catalog, but back-catalog releases will hardly ever drive hardware nor software sales.
People who thought that HD-DVD had a chance this week were deluding themselves. No releases that warranted any sort of mas market appeal vs Blu-Ray's superior prior releases... hmmmm.
HD-DVD has no chance, even if I personally wish it did. Blu-Ray has Fox, Sony, and Disney exclusive. How the hell WOULD Hd-DVD have a chance?
That said, I enjoy quite a bit of the Universal back catalog, but back-catalog releases will hardly ever drive hardware nor software sales.
People who thought that HD-DVD had a chance this week were deluding themselves. No releases that warranted any sort of mas market appeal vs Blu-Ray's superior prior releases... hmmmm.
Rabid Wolverine
Member
M3wThr33 said:
They hardly put any extra's on their movies. Not even the Standard Def material.
Crayon Shinchan said:
More importantly, considering total music sales, the numbers aren't bleak at all.
In fact, the reasons behind the relative dip in music sales isn't due to digital distribution but to the lack of good musical talent. For the past two to three years, music companies put too much money into short-term acts (ie. American Idol) or into the currently-declining hip-hop scene. They failed to diversify their portfolios and they're paying for that now.
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