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[Wulfer]

Thanks to the internet connection built into all HD DVD players, Toshiba machines allow users to do all sorts of nifty things—like re-edit films, participate in online polls and download trailers. Increasingly, it’s beginning to look as though, after the initial attraction of high-definition’s much sharper picture, interactivity is going to be the deciding factor that determines the outcome of the current format war.

DreamWorks, Paramount and Universal are betting that HD DVD’s powerful tools for interactivity will let them make a tonne of money out of selling all manner of online services to customers who buy their discs. That’s why, ultimately, Toshiba’s David could yet topple Sony’s Goliath in the current video wars.

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9689600


WOW this is a excellent article on the whole HD war and it stays pretty level headed for both sides.

 

[BoboBrazil]

"DreamWorks, Paramount and Universal are betting that HD DVD’s powerful tools for interactivity will let them make a tonne of money out of selling all manner of online services to customers who buy their discs. That’s why, ultimately, Toshiba’s David could yet topple Sony’s Goliath in the current video wars."

Oh I think Dreamworks and Paramount already made a ton of money....

 

[ManaByte]

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9689600


WOW this is a excellent article on the whole HD war and it stays pretty level headed for both sides.

Yes, lots of good details there that will sadly be ignored and spun to hell here.

For a start, HD DVD is a cheaper system all around. Unlike Blu-ray, which has a much shallower (and therefore a more delicate) data layer, an HD DVD has its digital information etched deeper beneath the surface just like a conventional DVD—and can therefore be stamped out on much the same sort of equipment as a DVD. That translates into a larger profit margin for the studios.

Why, then, have Blu-ray discs lately been outselling HD DVD versions by two to one? Because Sony cannily included a Blu-ray player in its latest video-game console, PlayStation 3. And while PS3 has not met expectations of selling 6m consoles in America, some 1.4m have nevertheless been snapped up since their launch last November. Market researchers reckon that most—90% by some reckoning—of Blu-ray discs are played on PS3 consoles. But Hollywood’s studios now realise they can’t pin the future of their precious video sales (today one of their main sources of revenue) on a game console that has failed to ignite widespread interest outside a dedicated circle of hard-core gamers.

That’s not all. Engineers who’ve worked with both formats say Blu-ray is a pig to program. While extremely flexible, its programming language, BD-Java, requires lots of low-level code for even the simplest of instructions. The highly skilled programmers needed to do the job don’t exactly grow on trees. And because of the program’s complexity, even the best produce their share of bug-ridden software.

By comparison, writing software for HD DVD using Microsoft’s HDi interactive technology is a doddle—with one simple command doing the task of scores of lines of BD-Java. More importantly, HDi is the key to HD DVD’s better navigation around menus, and its instinctive ability to interact with the outside world.

 

[ManaByte]

FUCK YOU FOX AND YOUR $40 MSRP!

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Brave_to_Make_Blu-ray_Debut_this_October/890

Fox Home Entertainment is planning to bring the war drama 'Home of the Brave' to Blu-ray this October, day-and-date with the standard-def DVD version.

Despite the marquee names of Samuel L. Jackson, Jessica Biel and rap superstar 50 Cent, 'Home of the Brave' registered barely a blip on the box office radar in its limited theatrical run in late 2006, barely eking out a total domestic gross of -- no joke -- approximately $43,753.

he film will essentially become a direct-to-video premiere when Fox debuts it on Blu-ray day-and-date with the DVD on October 23.

As Fox has so far only issued the date to retail, we've yet to find out what -- if any -- supplementary materials will be included, but early tech specs include the studio's standard 1080p widescreen video and DTS-HD Lossless Master Audio in 5.1 surround.

Retail will list for $39.98.

Fox needs to learn that $39.98 is fucking bullshit; especially since most of their releases are FUCKING BARE BONES (Kingdom of Heaven, anyone?)

 

[jjasper]

More than 400,000 American households are expected to have HD DVD players by the end of the year, compared with less than 300,000 with Blu-ray players.

If there is one thing stand alone players for both formats have almost trippled (if not more) it seems over the last 4 months. I actually think we will see $199 vs. $299 this holiday.

But Hollywood’s studios now realise they can’t pin the future of their precious video sales (today one of their main sources of revenue) on a game console that has failed to ignite widespread interest outside a dedicated circle of hard-core gamers.

I am sure that the BDA has discovered this too. i also wouldn't call it a circle, more like a simicircle

 

[StoOgE]

So I just saw Superbad and I was wondering what format would it be releasing on?

Yeah, thats going to hurt.

There are more apatow movies on HDDVD than BRD, but I want them all.

 

[thaivo]

Yes, lots of good details there that will sadly be ignored and spun to hell here.

Definitely a very well thought out article. The Economist is one of the few magazines the C.E.O. of the company I work for reads. It is definitely influential to the executives in a number of industries.

 

[Oni Jazar]

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9689600


WOW this is a excellent article on the whole HD war and it stays pretty level headed for both sides.

:lol how is that in any way a levelheaded article when it just hits the HD DVD talking points.

It's no secret that these are the pros for each format:

HD DVD: Cheaper devices, Cheaper to manufacture, easier to implement features, includes more interactive features at the moment.

Blu-ray: More studio support, more bandwidth/disc space, Playstation 3 incldues BD, BD-J eventually will be more robust.

Now what points did the article linked make, what points did it ignore or dismiss?

 

[StoOgE]

If there is one thing stand alone players for both formats have almost trippled (if not more) it seems over the last 4 months. I actually think we will see $199 vs. $299 this holiday.

I think HDDVD will be below 199. They can allready be had for 240 dollars with 5 free movies on Amazon. once the HDA3 comes out with a $300 MSRP (street for 250 or so), I would imagine the HDA2 will be dropped to 150 to try and move units.

 

[thaivo]

If there is one thing stand alone players for both formats have almost trippled (if not more) it seems over the last 4 months. I actually think we will see $199 vs. $299 this holiday.

I am sure that the BDA has discovered this too. i also wouldn't call it a circle, more like a simicircle

BD players to be $299 this holiday? Perhaps for Black Friday, but I'm not too sure they can reduce the costs that much within the next few months. Lower prices though are good for everyone, and can only speed up the adoption rate.

 

[jjasper]

I think HDDVD will be below 199. They can allready be had for 240 dollars with 5 free movies. once the HDA3 comes out with a $300 MSRP (street for 250 or so), I would imagine the HDA2 will be dropped to 150 to try and move units.

Oh you will probably be able to find the A2 for that price, but I do think the A3 will be $199 come this holiday.

BD players to be $299 this holiday? Perhaps for Black Friday, but I'm not too sure they can reduce the costs that much within the next few months. Lower prices though are good for everyone, and can only speed up the adoption rate.

It would be a $200 drop. I think it will happen (maybe no free movies though)

 

[thaivo]

:lol how is that in any way a levelheaded article when it just hits the HD DVD talking points.

It's no secret that these are the pros for each format:

Blu-ray: More studio support, more bandwidth/disc space, Playstation 3 incldues BD, BD-J eventually will be more robust.

Now what points did the article linked made, what points did it ignore or dismiss?

Didn't the article mention that BD previously had more studio support. It also mentioned the huge impact of the PS3, but also highlighted the "game system" stigma placed upon the PS3. BD-J was discussed as well, but in a negative light.

 

[StoOgE]

Oh you will probably be able to find the A2 for that price, but I do think the A3 will be $199 come this holiday.

I think the A3 will be 250 normally, with sales pushing to 200 dollars, stores probably buy them at around 200 bucks from Toshiba.. and they may be willing to sell them at cost to motivate disc sales in the future.. There are alot of A2s out there though.. and A1s could be found well after its release, so I would imagine there will be many to be had at 150 (if not lower).

 

[BoboBrazil]

Sony could release the bdps300 right now for $300 if they wanted too. The cost to make these are not that great. I work in a retail store and I see the margin on them. At $300 they might be losing a few dollars per machine or be right at cost to make...

 

[Laurent]

Interesting read indeed (although biais as shit), but I don't know if interactivity is such a big deal. If people wants to get on the internet, they will use their computers. Seing actual theatrical trailers online or old ones on a disc won't change my experience to a point where I'll choose HD-DVD over Blu-ray. I chose BR because I bought a PS3 and incidently, it plays them. I'm surprised that the fact that BRD is beating HD-DVD sales almost 3:1 is not mentionned in the article, and no one seems to take it into consideration. I know those sales are WAAAAAAAY smaller than regular DVD sales, but still...

 

[Raistlin]

"DreamWorks, Paramount and Universal are betting that HD DVD’s powerful tools for interactivity will let them make a tonne of money out of selling all manner of online services to customers who buy their discs. That’s why, ultimately, Toshiba’s David could yet topple Sony’s Goliath in the current video wars."

Oh I think Dreamworks and Paramount already made a ton of money....

Since basically all of those services will be available come October for BD ... I question this.

Granted, not all current players will support it ... but if PS3 ends up getting an upgrade, that means a majority of BD owners will have it.

 

[jjasper]

I think the A3 will be 250 normally, with sales pushing to 200 dollars, stores probably buy them at around 200 bucks from Toshiba.. and they may be willing to sell them at cost to motivate disc sales in the future.. There are alot of A2s out there though.. and A1s could be found well after its release, so I would imagine there will be many to be had at 150 (if not lower).

Good points so maybe $250 and $350, I do think we will only see a $100 difference this holiday being the main point.

 

[Laurent]

Since basically all of those services will be available come October for BD ... I question this.

Granted, not all current players will support it ... but if PS3 ends up getting an upgrade, that means a majority of BD owners will have it.

Upgrade?

Update... (as in Software Update)

 

[Oni Jazar]

Didn't the article mention that BD previously had more studio support. It also mentioned the huge impact of the PS3, but also highlighted the "game system" stigma placed upon the PS3. BD-J was discussed as well, but in a negative light.

All those issues were placed in a 'negative light'. BD lost studios (but still has a larger share compared to HD DVD), PS3 not selling as predicted (but still causing BD sales to be 2x greater then HD DVD), BD-J a 'pig' (while interactive titles in BD can be more flexible then HDi in experienced hands).

 

[Raistlin]

Upgrade?

Update... (as in Software Update)

Feature upgrade ... so yeah, firmware update.

 

[Laurent]

Feature upgrade ... so yeah, firmware update.

Because the last thing I wanna see is an upgraded PS3 with something else than a larger hard drive for sale...

 

[StoOgE]

Because the last thing I wanna see is an upgraded PS3 with something else than a larger hard drive for sale...

no, they will need to update the PS3 hardware to handle the BDJ interactive layer once that launches in Octoberish. Im sure Sony has it ready to roll out allready.

 

[StoOgE]

Since basically all of those services will be available come October for BD ... I question this.

I think the ease with which HDi can be used is a big motivator as well though. BDJ will probably end up being more customizable but harder (and costlier) to impliment.

 

[Laurent]

no, they will need to update the PS3 hardware to handle the BDJ interactive layer once that launches in Octoberish. Im sure Sony has it ready to roll out allready.

Other Blu-ray players could be updated in similar fasion, or using an auto-update application that could be bundled in future BDR releases, à la PSP games?

 

[ManaByte]

Since basically all of those services will be available come October for BD ... I question this.

Ever think that studios may know more about that than we do? They're already planning and announcing their October-December BD releases and there isn't a single one that uses any of those promised features before next summer. If it IS going to be ready to be patched out to players in October; you'd think someone would be taking advantage of it this year instead of mid-to-late 2008.

Other Blu-ray players could be updated in similar fasion, or using an auto-update application that could be bundled in future BDR releases, à la PSP games?

If one of the features uses any sort of internet connectivity and you don't have a PS3; you'll have to buy a new BD player with an ethernet port.

 

[DSWii60]

Blu-ray, which has a much shallower (and therefore a more delicate) data layer.

This quote got me a bit confused. I've always thought of Blu-Ray as having that extra tough scratch-resistant layer so the data would be protected better even though there is less of the layer. Does this mean that HD-DVDs are less prone to scratches than Blu-Ray?

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

no, they will need to update the PS3 hardware to handle the BDJ interactive layer once that launches in Octoberish. Im sure Sony has it ready to roll out allready.

When you say this... what exactly do you mean?

Hardware update = only new PS3s compatible, as they need new hardware.

That's not the impression I've gotten about 1.1 update at all.

 

[thaivo]

Ever think that studios may know more about that than we do? They're already planning and announcing their October-December BD releases and there isn't a single one that uses any of those promised features before next summer. If it IS going to be ready to be patched out to players in October; you'd think someone would be taking advantage of it this year instead of mid-to-late 2008.



If one of the features uses any sort of internet connectivity and you don't have a PS3; you'll have to buy a new BD player with an ethernet port.

A delay in the implementation of such functionality is understandable. I mean Toshiba players had most of the functionality "possible" near launch, but the implementation by Studios didn't take effect until much later.

BD releases with added functionality also would need for BD players with 1.1 spec to take a foothold. Most likely the PS3 will allow this to happen, if it is completely compatible (can't see why not). Perhaps they also want to wait out the initial negativity due to older BD players not being able to run the features.

 

[ManaByte]

A delay in the implementation of such functionality is understandable. I mean Toshiba players had most of the functionality "possible" near launch, but the implementation by Studios didn't take effect until much later.

What? No.

The first HD-DVD player was released in the US in April 2006. The first major HDi release was the Bourne Supremacy in May 2006. That was Universal and Warner had the HDi Constantine out two weeks later in early June 2006. So they had HDi discs ready right around launch. Which means it's entirely possible for a studio to have a BD 1.1 compliant disc on store shelves in November or December of 2007 (NOT 2008 as currently announced) if the update IS really going to be ready in October.

 

[StoOgE]

When you say this... what exactly do you mean?

Hardware update = only new PS3s compatible, as they need new hardware.

That's not the impression I've gotten about 1.1 update at all.

software update.

Also, LOL at thread title edit. I thought WB went HDDVD when I first saw it :lol

 

[ManaByte]

Title edit :lol :lol :lol

 

[djkimothy]

OMG title edit.

 

[thaivo]

What? No.

The first HD-DVD player was released in the US in April 2006. The first major HDi release was the Bourne Supremacy in May 2006. That was Universal and Warner had the HDi Constantine out two weeks later in early June 2006. So they had HDi discs ready right around launch. Which means it's entirely possible for a studio to have a BD 1.1 compliant disc on store shelves in November or December of 2007 (NOT 2008 as currently announced) if the update IS really going to be ready in October.

Well I wasn't actually referring to only PiP and stuff. I mean things like web access, movie editing, stuff like that. I remember it took a few firmware upgrades until this was available.

What I'm curious about is how all the early adopters (people who spent +$1000 for their BD stand-a-lone) will feel. It's got to be a sinking feeling, because it's not a very good reward to early adopters by the BDA..

 

[djkimothy]

Well I wasn't actually referring to only PiP and stuff. I mean things like web access, movie editing, stuff like that. I remember it took a few firmware upgrades until this was available.

What I'm curious about is how all the early adopters (people who spent +$1000 for their BD stand-a-lone) will feel. It's got to be a sinking feeling, because it's not a very good reward to early adopters by the BDA..

Will those $1000 players stop playing movies? I missed the memo.

 

[Luckyman]

As far as stand-alone players are concerned, the price advantage has allowed Toshiba to outsell the Sony camp by a wide margin.

Is this even true anymore?

 

[jjasper]

:lol Who changed the title. People are going to come in here expecting big news.

 

[thaivo]

Will those $1000 players stop playing movies? I missed the memo.

I never said they'd stop playing movies, but if you invest such a significant sum of money, then I would assume that you would be disappointed that your player can't take advantage of all the functionality of that format. Perhaps I am wrong, but that is how I think most rational people would think.

 

[StoOgE]

Is this even true anymore?

yes, HDDVD standalone players outsell BRD standalone players by alot.

Of course, the fact that PS3 isnt a standalone, is the cheapest BRD player on the market (or tied for it) and also plays games means most people who want a BRD player will most likely grab a PS3 (unless they like throwing money away and not getting value for the purchase).

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

software update.

Also, LOL at thread title edit. I thought WB went HDDVD when I first saw it :lol

Then say firmware update

title edit is pretty harsh. BD is still doing alright. At least much better then when Alcibiades was championing HD-DVD.

 

[djkimothy]

I never said they'd stop playing movies, but if you invest such a significant sum of money, then I would assume that you would be disappointed that your player can't take advantage of all the functionality of that format. Perhaps I am wrong, but that is how I think most rational people would think.

The price of early adoption.

I'm sure the people who bought $1000 player can buy another cheaper one.

 

[StoOgE]

:lol Who changed the title. People are going to come in here expecting big news.

I know I did. I saw the thread title and thought "Oh Snapplecakes, WB must have taken the red pill and Petraca snapped" :lol

 

[jjasper]

I know I did. I saw the thread title and thought "Oh Snapplecakes, WB must have taken the red pill and Petraca snapped" :lol

I was actually expecting a meltdown, disapointed by that too.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I think you'd have to be a fool not to consider that one of the MAIN reasons why HD DVD player standalone sales haven't been 3:1 or more to Blu-ray standalones is the fact that there was never much confidence in HD DVD to begin with. There were people who wanted one but didn't want to waste money on a dead format. With the Paramount announcement, we'll see what happens. That was a staggering announcement. September Standalone player sales will be an important number to watch.

 

[thaivo]

The price of early adoption.

I'm sure the people who bought $1000 player can buy another cheaper one.

:lol I suppose so.

That should be the BDA's official response: "Thank you for buying a BD player early... Please buy another..."

 

[djkimothy]

:lol I suppose so.

That should be the BDA's response: "Thank you for buying a BD player early... Please buy another..."

I didn't say they are forced to buy another. If PiP was important to them then maybe they should consider getting one. Else. All the movies released still work. So who cares.

 

[dankir]

Petrarca don't do it!

 

[Dot50Cal]

1. 300 BD 100.00
2. Wild Hogs BD 77.63
3. 300 HD 45.18
4. Vacancy BD 21.34
5. Disturbia 16.96
6. PE BD 15.22
7. The Lookout BD 12.29
8. TMNT BD 11.89
9. PE HD 10.95
10. Doctor Strange BD 10.77

xx Disturbia HD 7.88
xx TMNT HD 5.17
xx Hot Fuzz HD 5.10
xx Bourne Identity HD 4.51

What the hell happened to the Bourne Supremacy??? Wasnt that top out of the gate on its release just a little while ago? Now its nowhere?

 

[Xater]

I think you'd have to be a fool not to consider that one of the MAIN reasons why HD DVD player standalone sales haven't been 3:1 or more to Blu-ray standalones is the fact that there was never much confidence in HD DVD to begin with. There were people who wanted one but didn't want to waste money on a dead format. With the Paramount announcement, we'll see what happens. That was a staggering announcement. September Standalone player sales will be an important number to watch.

I think the real important numbers will be from October to the end of the year. A spike in September could also only mean that some panicking Blu-ray owners bought a player. :lol

 

[thaivo]

I didn't say they are forced to buy another. If PiP was important to them then maybe they should consider getting one. Else. All the movies released still work. So who cares.

I think you are forgetting that early adopters are exactly the kind of people that do care. :lol

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Thread title was changed in response to this:

thread title is misleading, should be changed to 'Blu-ray/HD-DVD: Blu-ray is still dominating'

see I told you so :lol

Week ended 8/19:
Blu-Ray: 71%
HD-DVD: 29%

now can we have the thread title changed?

You ok pet? We had notified the police in jakarta to be on suicide watch. LOL and wtf did you suddenly turn into isamu?