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[Doc Evils]

New Weekly numbers:

68:32 Week
67:33 Year
61:39 SI



Awesome awesome.

Next week will be the telling figures tho. If HD-DVD cant outsell Blu-Ray with 5 exclusives, 1 of which is one of their biggest exclusives of the year and after the Paramount announcement, then Blu-Ray is unbeatable. 8)

Personally I expect HD-DVD to take next week slightly, but Blu-Ray will continue to dominate the weeks after. It'll just be a blip on th radar...

So HD-DVD is getting rapped.

Better watch out for the Spiderman megaton.

 

[Mrbob]

Man that software attach rate for stand alone Blu Ray players is awesome.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Wow and here I thought Sony's and Microsoft's PR were masters at spinning news and here comes Toshiba and takes the whole fucking cake. :lol

Haven't we gone over how the HD-DVD spin their numbers with/without including PS3 for like over a month now?

 

[StoOgE]

I don't really foresee HD DVD taking the week. The week it has the best chance would be the week Transformers comes out, or even perhaps the Bourne Ultimatum.

he knows that too... but if he sets a high expectation for hddvd and it doesnt meet it, he can then claim victory.

the truth is, if this time next year hddvd is still selling 70-30 to 60-40 of what brd is (and overall hdm sales increase) it means hddvd will continue to exist and have studio support.

 

[KZObsessed]

I don't really foresee HD DVD taking the week. The week it has the best chance would be the week Transformers comes out, or even perhaps the Bourne Ultimatum.

You may very well be correct, depends what releases on Blu-Ray those weeks. Which leads to a very important question, do they have an official release date yet?

 

[StoOgE]

we wont get a transformers release date until paramount is positive there is nothing more to make in theaters.

 

[Doc Evils]

he knows that too... but if he sets a high expectation for hddvd and it doesnt meet it, he can then claim victory.

the truth is, if this time next year hddvd is still selling 70-30 to 60-40 of what brd is (and overall hdm sales increase) it means hddvd will continue to exist and have studio support.

That's not taking in a PS3 price drop & MGS4,GT5,KZ2 etc, to help increase the PS3 userbase.

 

[KZObsessed]

he knows that too... but if he sets a high expectation for hddvd and it doesnt meet it, he can then claim victory.

You think expecting HD-DVD to win one week by a few % when they have 5 exclusives (Heroes being one of the biggest exclusives they have this year) and after the Paramount announcement, and when Blu-Ray has no releases, is having high expectations for HD-DVD?

Interesting insight into your own expectations for the HD-DVD format right there...

we wont get a transformers release date until paramount is positive there is nothing more to make in theaters.

ahh I see, thank you.

I assume its the same with the Bourne movie... ok, well it'll be interesting to see what these titles go up against on the Blu-Ray side.

If they're smart, they'll release it on a week Blu-Ray has no releases or at least no big releases.

 

[KZObsessed]

.

 

[R0GX]

Truthfully I don't think any of these numbers matter until Blu-ray can start selling some standalone players at a decent rate. That means of course they have to stop screwing around and get their prices down. The PS3 just isn't a mass market Blu-Ray player. Most people don't want to buy a video system to watch movies on. In most stores the PS3 is kept in the video game section, not the home theater section.

HD-DVD? They have one X-mas to prove the can sell enough players to the public to make up for the huge gap between the number of HD-DVD players and Blu-ray players (mostly PS3). Otherwise I think studios support may finally falter. The attach ratio is pretty good, but thats not too surprising with early adopters. The more players they sell to J6P the lower those numbers will go. Interestingly enough, we may see the same trend with PS3 as it's install base goes up.

Can HD-DVD outsell PS3 this X-mas? I seriously doubt it. Can it sell enough to make the Blu-ray to HD-DVD media numbers closer? Its possible. IF that happens what does it mean? It means this format war is not going to end until we have affordable duel players!

So depressing... :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

You think expecting HD-DVD to win one week by a few % when they have 5 exclusives (Heroes being one of the biggest exclusives they have this year) and after the Paramount announcement, and when Blu-Ray has no releases, is having high expectations for HD-DVD?

I agree with Stooge. Despite those software releases, Ps3 sales will still double and triple the combined HD DVD/Blu Ray standalone sales, and even though most Ps3's aren't used for movies, the brute sales will outweigh whatever positive effect Paramount could have.

You have to understand how small the actual sales are in the overall scheme, so until HD DVD hardware sales can reach elevated levels (750k-1 million units or more), the Ps3's sales will outweigh HD DVD's relatively small ownership group.

I'd love to see HD DVD outsell BR software at this point, and it should do a lot better next week, but the Ps3 effect is still too large, and the standalone sales are still too low (relative to Ps3). We'll see what happens.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Truthfully I don't think any of these numbers matter until Blu-ray can start selling some standalone players at a decent rate. That means of course they have to stop screwing around and get their prices down. The PS3 just isn't a mass market Blu-Ray player. Most people don't want to buy a video system to watch movies on. In most stores the PS3 is kept in the video game section, not the home theater section.

The thing is, I resorted to buying a Sony BDP-300, not because I wasn't satisfied with the PS3's video and audio, but because Home Theater Psychos like me WILL NOT tollerate the noise the PS3 males - especially in dialog heavy movies. The 360 is even worse, which is why I don't have the add-on. The casuals gamers don't care, but I can tell you hardcore HT enthusiasts do.

 

[R0GX]

The thing is, I resorted to buying a Sony BDP-300, not because I wasn't satisfied with the PS3's video and audio, but because Home Theater Psychos like me WILL NOT tollerate the noise the PS3 males - especially in dialog heavy movies. The 360 is even worse, which is why I don't have the add-on. The casuals gamers don't care, but I can tell you hardcore HT enthusiasts do.

I agree with you... thats why I don't have the 360 add-on as well. If I bought it I know I'd have to return it.

Once Blu-ray players (sans PS3) starts outselling HD-DVD players this war is over... until that happens studios like Paramount do have a legitimate reason to support HD-DVD.

So where are my low cost Blu-Ray players Sony!?

I've also read that Blu-Ray doesn't want the format to take off too quickly because they don't have the disc manufacturing capacity to handle demand, nor can Sony afford to subsidize huge numbers of Blu-ray discs if yields don't improve. Take that with a grain of salt because its so called insider info from AVS Forums, but if that is true war is a bigger mess than I thought.

 

[Frankfurter]

High five @ the five free movies offer (finally) coming to Europe! That'll definitely help my decision.

 

[sakuragi]

Haven't we gone over how the HD-DVD spin their numbers with/without including PS3 for like over a month now?

I wasn't paying attention to the blu-ray/HD-DVD PR or the whole scene for that matter so this is news to me.

 

[p_xavier]

I agree with you... thats why I don't have the 360 add-on as well. If I bought it I know I'd have to return it.

Once Blu-ray players (sans PS3) starts outselling HD-DVD players this war is over... until that happens studios like Paramount do have a legitimate reason to support HD-DVD.

So where are my low cost Blu-Ray players Sony!?

I thought they were already outselling them since the since inception ratio is 60-40 for players?

 

[R0GX]

I thought they were already outselling them since the since inception ratio is 60-40 for players?

I believe that was including PS3. But if we are just talking about standalone players its the other way around.

Here we go.. this is from Jan, 2007:

According to Adams Media Research, roughly 425,000 of the 695,000 next-gen players sold recently are Blu-ray players—about 61 percent of units in the wild. Comparatively, HD DVD accounts for 270,000 units, or roughly 39 percent. Presented this way, Blu-ray looks to have a significant lead.

Yet only 25,000 of those Blu-ray players were purchased as standalone units (that is, dedicated Blu-ray players), with the other 400,000 coming in the form of the Sony PS3. The big question here is whether or not PS3 purchases are signs of consumer interest in Blu-ray, per se. Compare this situation to HD DVD: 120,000 units were purchased as standalone players, with another 150,000 units coming in the form of HD DVD upgrade kits on Xbox 360s.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070115-8625.html

Now the PS3 has widened the gap considerably since then, but to my knowledge standalone Blu-ray has not outsold standalone HD-DVD.

 

[Costanza]

HOLY SHIT

from AVS:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=898162&page=5

http://m1.freeshare.us/172fs377359.jpg

 

[AlteredBeast]

Haha. I thought some copies would eventually get out. We had a spot for it on our shelves at work, I thought it was quite amusing walking by it today.

 

[thaivo]

HOLY SHIT

from AVS:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=898162&page=5

That thing is going to be worth thousands! :lol

 

[DarkJediKnight]

HOLY SHIT

from AVS:

In the words of John McLaine from Live Free or die hard: "OHHHHH NNNNOOOO...."

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

But is the movie any good?

 

[Costanza]

But is the movie any good?

I thought it was pretty funny and was planning on buying it this week, now it'll have to wait till I go neutral again (soon).

 

[thaivo]

Nice article from HighDefDigest, the author also he explains that he has issues with HD DVD as well, and that his next article will address the problems with HD DVD combo discs.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...ar_of_Hype,_and_Paramounts_Big_Bombshell_/921
. . .Paramount Home Entertainment announced that effective immediately the studio would be dropping support for Blu-ray and releasing High Definition titles exclusively on the HD DVD format.

The impact of this cannot be overstated, and goes far beyond a couple of hit movies. In fact, it may just be the single biggest and most shocking development to happen in the format war to date. ....By kicking Blu-ray to the curb, as it were, a major studio with a huge catalog of desirable titles … has effectively issued a vote of no confidence for the future prospects of the format.
. . .
Paramount has cited "manufacturability, the reliability of players, the cost, [and] the infrastructure that's developed to support our creation of titles" as the primary factors behind their decision. …Could these factors really outweigh the widely acknowledged sales advantage that Blu-ray software currently holds over HD DVD?

For months now, we've been inundated with press releases trumpeting the 2:1 sales gap between Blu-ray and HD DVD, . . .The sales lead only sounds impressive when taken out of context. . . .Bragging that Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD 2:1 at these volumes is like boasting that an ant is larger than a flea,…. A year into their lives, both are still in their infancy. . . .

the Blu-ray format has based a large part of its sales plan around the Playstation 3, which is by far the best selling and most popular Blu-ray playback device on the market. Unfortunately, the PS3 hasn't met expectations in the video game arena…. While there are enough PS3 consoles in active use right now to lead to the 2:1 disc sales advantage over HD DVD as discussed above, perhaps Paramount doesn't feel that this is a sustainable business model. . .

The BDA has been using all the muscle of their promotional machine to maintain the perception of winning the format war, expecting that hype will eventually become reality. . . .

All I hope is to present an alternate viewpoint to the widely held presumption that prior to Paramount's announcement, Blu-ray had all but locked up their victory in this format war, a notion I don't believe is supported by the facts. . . .Personally, I foresee both HD DVD and Blu-ray coexisting for a long time, and potentially both thriving. . .

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Paramount failed to cite hundreds of millions of dollars, however.

I don't care that they were paid, but their "reasoning" is just justification once you look at the money.

 

[rc213]

If the video game market can survive with multiple formats, each offering their own exclusive releases, how is the High Definition market any different?

:lol GTFO!

 

[thaivo]

Paramount failed to cite hundreds of millions of dollars, however.

I don't care that they were paid, but their "reasoning" is just justification once you look at the money.

As long as the "justification" is from valid logical reasons, I'm not sure I see your point.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

As long as the "justification" is from valid logical reasons, I'm not sure I see your point.

My point is, they didn't abandon BluRay for any of those reasons. They abandoned it for money. If The BD camp had bought them instead, they'd have a different set of justifications that would be equally "valid" and "logical."

 

[KachoMakura]

My point is, they didn't abandon BluRay for any of those reasons. They abandoned it for money. If The BD camp had bought them instead, they'd have a different set of justifications that would be equally "valid" and "logical."

I'm sure it was a combination of reasons.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm sure it was a combination of reasons.

Yes... several million of them! :lol

 

[thaivo]

My point is, they didn't abandon BluRay for any of those reasons. They abandoned it for money. If The BD camp had bought them instead, they'd have a different set of justifications that would be equally "valid" and "logical."

Although I don't dispute that financial incentives had a significant role in the change. To say that "they didn't abandon BluRay for any of those reasons" is pure speculation, and influenced by your BD tunnel vision.

Yes... several million of them! :lol

[Sarcasm on]I didn't think the reasons were in the millions, but I'm glad you think there are that many.. :lol [sarcasm off]

 

[OokieSpookie]

Off topic, but does anyone have this tv or an opinion on it?

Sharp 42" Aquos

 

[Killthee]

Off topic, but does anyone have this tv or an opinion on it?

Sharp 42" Aquos

If you end up wanting to buy that LCD and you have a Amex card, wait till My Wishlist comes back in Nov. They were offering around 100 of those sets for $800 each a couple of months ago when they were doing My Wishlist.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Although I don't dispute that financial incentives had a significant role in the change. To say that "they didn't abandon BluRay for any of those reasons" is pure speculation, and influenced by your BD tunnel vision.


[Sarcasm on]I didn't think the reasons were in the millions, but I'm glad you think there are that many.. :lol [sarcasm off]

Add the word "primarily" to the initial sentence, hair-splitter. yes, some of those may have been contributing reasons, although they don't make much sense without a lot of money to help with the convincing.

If anybody wants to pay me mere thousands of dollars, I'll tell you some reasons why I prefer one format over the other.

 

[VanMardigan]

Put me on the ignore list because I was supposedly the only one who still cared about the Paramount pay off (and conversely, the flip side with Disney/Fox)........yet can't keep his damn mouth shut about it :lol :lol

 

[thaivo]

Put me on the ignore list because I was supposedly the only one who still cared about the Paramount pay off (and conversely, the flip side with Disney/Fox)........yet can't keep his damn mouth shut about it :lol :lol

Well, I kind of understand why he, and other BD supporters are so insistent about the money being the only reason. I mean if it wasn't the only reason for the switch, and what Paramount is saying is true, then BD has some serious serious problems.

Some how I don't think someone of the stature of Jeffry Katzenberg would lightly issue lies for publication throughout the internet. A reputation is something that business professionals value highly, and do not risk lightly.

 

[VanMardigan]

Well, I kind of understand why he, and other BD supporters are so insistent about the money being the only reason.

They have every right to discuss it, but mention Fox/Disney and what incentives THEY might be getting and watch mousey turn into a whiny poster and get all emotional and confrontational. Pathetic and hypocritical.

Unlike some supposedly objective editorialists covering the format war, I have never received any financial compensation or lucrative gifts from any party on either side of the issue. If offered such, I would reject it to avoid the conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety. I am currently on my second disc player for each format, all of which were purchased immediately upon release and paid for out of my own pocket. I have not attended any lavish Las Vegas parties thrown in my honor by the backers of one format or the other, nor do I write articles (paid or otherwise) for the official promotional web sites on either side. I have no ties to any corporation that would in any way influence my writing on the topic. My opinions are strictly my own, based on my own observations and experience.

Did he just take a shot at Blu Ray Bill??

 

[thaivo]

They have every right to discuss it, but mention Fox/Disney and what incentives THEY might be getting and watch mousey turn into a whiny poster and get all emotional and confrontational. Pathetic and hypocritical.

Dare I say it... dare I....

I'll let this man say it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11488537#post11488537

Upon considering the whole HD format war, I watched rather passively until about a month ago. I began to see the prices dropping to what I consider buyable levels, and started looking around at the different websites. Upon coming to blu-ray.com, I was rather shocked to see the type of language I saw there. And I don't mean foul language, though there was certainly a lot of that. But mostly, a type of hysteria almost. Everyone was all "I'm tru-blu 4 life!!!" and "F#%$ HD DVD". And then, the Paramount decision came. Everyone was blaming Microsoft for this!!! I mean, I know they sell an add-on and did some programming work for them, but that's hardly enough to shell out $150m for (which I was never able to find a confirmation of btw, the farthest back I was able to trace the source of that was a NY times article that did not state any clear sources). In fact, I went on that site rather soon after the big announcement, and would you believe that people were actually asking if their website had been hacked, so firmly implanted in their beliefs that blu-ray had "won". They did not believe the press release was real. It was at this point that I turned away from blu-ray.

Then I started looking at some of the HD DVD forums more closely, and what do I find? People talking amongst themselves about firmware updates, various technical problems, conjecture on the war, press releases, a clear list of reasons on why they thought HD DVD was superior, and no foul language. Holy cow! Rather normal hardware discussion! So I began to lurk for a few days, and the Amazon deal hit, and that is when I made my purchase of the HD-A2 So that is my story.

Although not true of all BD supporters, in general I think this guy has the different format supporters pegged.

 

[lupin23rd]

You are posting a link from Amir's Virtual Space about a guy badmouthing BD fans and putting HDDVD fans on a pedestal? The guy obviously knows if he says anything out of line he gets the banstick. Please.

 

[thaivo]

You are posting a link from Amir's Virtual Space about a guy badmouthing BD fans and putting HDDVD fans on a pedestal? The guy obviously knows if he says anything out of line he gets the banstick. Please.

You kind of just proved his point with your post.. :lol Amir's Virtual Space :lol It's a clever acronym.

 

[XMonkey]

Although not true of all BD supporters, in general I think this guy has the different format supporters pegged.

No.

Just, no.

Take your damn blinders off.

 

[lupin23rd]

Just stating a simple fact sir.

But hey, if you guys are all peaceful and civil over there, why don't you just give up, and we can end this war

Spoiler

of course we would demand human sacrifices and signatures in a virgin's blood as acceptance of your surrender

 

[heavy liquid]

Cool promo video for the HD DVD set of Star Trek Remastered Season One HD DVD set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi1Tj-GwjAU

Almost makes me want to buy it, but the $138.95 price (ON SALE -- $200 MSRP) makes me want to vomit (see my earlier rant on Blu ray and HD DVD TV pricing). Still, it looks like it has some very cool features and extras. Too bad they won't sell many because of the obnoxious price.

 

[VanMardigan]

My dad is a HUGE trekkie. He already has the first season on dvd. If he foots the bill, I'll let him watch it on my 1080p set.

Otherwise, I'm hoping there will be some holiday specials or maybe by next Father's Day.

 

[thaivo]

But hey, if you guys are all peaceful and civil over there, why don't you just give up, and we can end this war

I'd be willing to buy a dual format player some day when they are reasonably priced, just to have Pixar films on HD. I hope to god I can get Miyazaki films through other means than Disney BD... Princess Mononoke in HD would be heaven.

Just stating a simple fact sir.

Which were the facts again? Were the simple "facts":

1)AVS = Amir's Virtual Space :lol
2)The guy obviously knows if he says anything out of line he gets the banstick :lol

 

[KachoMakura]

Dare I say it... dare I....

I'll let this man say it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11488537#post11488537


Although not true of all BD supporters, in general I think this guy has the different format supporters pegged.

Well one is made up mainly of your average Playstation fan and the other made up of movie enthusiasts. Go visit Xbox.com forums to see what I mean. That's probably where the difference comes from.

 

[heavy liquid]

My dad is a HUGE trekkie. He already has the first season on dvd. If he foots the bill, I'll let him watch it on my 1080p set.

Otherwise, I'm hoping there will be some holiday specials or maybe by next Father's Day.

Lucky you! I've been watching and loving the remastered episodes every week (well, almost.. ). They're fantastic in HD on my OTA HD tuner.

 

[thaivo]

Well one is made up mainly of your average Playstation fan and the other made up of movie enthusiasts. Go visit Xbox.com forums to see what I mean. That's probably where the difference comes from.

I think you're right. That probably explains the different sensibilities. Although a large majority of BD player owners are PS3 owners, so I'm not sure BD forums can ever be mainly movie enthusiasts.

 

[KachoMakura]

Looks like Walmart won't be stocking those cheap HD-DVD players after all:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6473655.html?nid=2705


I still expect BestBuy, Circuit City and other major electronics stores to stock it though. They'd be stupid not to.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Sony BDP-S300 can be had for 388 at sears right now. They are clearancing it out for the new models...Great player and great price, although I still recommend PS3 as the player of choice. People keep coming in saying ps3 numbers shouldn't count, but how many people bought one JUST to play movies? I know I did, with a few games here and there, but mostly movies...