Cosmic Bus
pristine morning snow
irfan said:Just imagine Transformers' numbers if it was released on both formats.
And just imagine, none of those b1g1 sales would've happened.
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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
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And just imagine, none of those b1g1 sales would've happened.
Derived unit numbers thanks to MrXpress & Grubert on AVS.
"Going with MrXpress' numbers, which seem okay to me:
POTC: DMC 10980
POTC:COTBP 10488
Apocalypto 5773
Deja Vu 4266
Prestige 4140
Wild Hogs 4059
That's just about 40,000 units from six BOGO titles. There were 24 other, with sales under 4,000. If (WAG) those sold 2,500 per title, you have 60,000 BOGO sales outside the chart, so about 100,000 BOGO sales.
And:
- Blu-ray sold 45,000 non-BOGO discs
- HD DVD sold 25,000 non-Transformers discs"
"Which, incidentally, is a 64:36 ratio. So in other words, it was a normal week if you discount the BOGO and Transformers deals, heh.
<cue "the more things change, the more they stay the same" quote>"
"Going with MrXpress' numbers, which seem okay to me:
POTC: DMC 10980
POTC:COTBP 10488
Apocalypto 5773
Deja Vu 4266
Prestige 4140
Wild Hogs 4059
That's just about 40,000 units from six BOGO titles. There were 24 other, with sales under 4,000. If (WAG) those sold 2,500 per title, you have 60,000 BOGO sales outside the chart, so about 100,000 BOGO sales.
And:
- Blu-ray sold 45,000 non-BOGO discs
- HD DVD sold 25,000 non-Transformers discs"
"Which, incidentally, is a 64:36 ratio. So in other words, it was a normal week if you discount the BOGO and Transformers deals, heh.
<cue "the more things change, the more they stay the same" quote>"
It's been pretty evident that HD DVD was going to lose all year. HD DVD has gotten repeated stays of execution and the Paramount exclusivity was the final one.The Main Event said:
The Weinstein Company will no longer be HD DVD exclusive by the end of the year, Paramount will come back after its contract expires, and this thread can get back to wondering when Universal will go multiplatform so we can finally get past this stupid format war.
And Transformers BRD would have sold 2-3 times as many copies as the HD DVD one thanks to the target demographic for the film overlapping perfectly with the target demographic for the PlayStation 3, which would cause the week to be a lot more skewed in BRD's favor than it is now. Meaning either way, BRD would win. Meaning HD DVD is redundant, unnecessary and actually an obstacle on the road to a one-format future rather than a solution.Cosmic Bus said:
So, anyone want to spin the data Oni Jazar posted? I'm bracing myself for gale force winds here.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Oni Jazar said:
Thanks for the analysis. It's been a fun week in HD format war land
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
shidoshi said:
I wasn't arguing at all. I was just asking why he made the statement that Blu-Ray was clearly the superior format, when really it isn't superior aside from the capacity.
We've already talked about all those points and pretty much moved on in the discussion. As I stated earlier, I wasn't trying to troll, I just wanted to find out what memo I missed on BDR being "superior", because other than capacity, I can't see that it is.
I will say that you mentioning bandwidth is the first I've ever heard of that. Obviously that's not being taken advantage of yet if true, as reviews I've read have generally had the image quality on par with one another, with some specific titles being better on one format or the other.
I did mention studio support in my follow up posts. That is not a technical reason for BDR to be superior however, as it can easily be over come were HD-DVD to become the dominant platform.
For the record, I don't like anyone on either side of the format war saying that their format of choice is "superior", because as I've already stated, there doesn't really appear to be a major difference between either of them at this point.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I'm not sure how we can say it was a normal week "if we discount BOGO and Transformers". How are those two related when you try to consider a "normal" sales week? Are we going to discount every Paramount/Dreamworks movie from this point forward in a similar manner? What's the point of lumping Transformers in with a promotional sale, other than the obvious fact that the BOGO sales was in response to Transformers.
A "normal" sales week this week would've included Transformers, and NOT the BOGO deal.
Also, fc, the Heroes deal was not part of this sales reporting.
A "normal" sales week this week would've included Transformers, and NOT the BOGO deal.
Also, fc, the Heroes deal was not part of this sales reporting.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
VanMardigan said:
He's not saying we *should* discount it, just that outside of that release, nothing has changed.
You need to live up to the tag a bit more.
Taking a step back...
This is a marathon, not a sprint. Transformers is a big release, but it's *one* release. b1g1 deals a great for the consumer, but they can't be sustained.
So what filtering them out shows is that the baseline hasn't moved.
Now, if Paramount and Universal had a raft of big titles throughout the remainded of the year (and they do have some) then perhaps the baseline will move. But so far, it hasn't. What will be telling is how the whole of Q4 averages out, with Transformers in the mix, the Bournes, Shrek, against all the BD exclusive content, and also seeing where the dual-format stuff sells.
What this week has told us is that the biggest HD-DVD release of the year could not compete with a 50% sale. Neitehr is indicative of the big picure.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
If it's rung up at the counter as a separate SKU, how would the Heroes set *not* be counted? Or when you say "deal" do you mean the whole shebang with the mail-away movies?
Edit: n/m, that'll be next week.
Edit: n/m, that'll be next week.
Christoff Yurievich
Member
yeah, I think the Best Buy thing with the HD-DVD player is going to help Team Red next week something fierce, especially with that error w/ the box sets.VanMardigan said:
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Jedi, we've covered the bitrate superiority issue to death in the other thread.
FWIW, I agree with you that the technolgy differences of the formats are not really a determiner of anything, but you seem to be pimping hard for HD-DVD when you say studio support doesn't matter. Studio support is probably what's accounted for BluRay outselling HD-DVD 2:1 all year despite higher player prices. Heck, people are buying the higher-priced BluRay players at about the same rate as HD-DVD players (and that's not counting the PS3) and the only reason to do that would be the movie selection or the technology-- and I don't think it's the technology.
FWIW, I agree with you that the technolgy differences of the formats are not really a determiner of anything, but you seem to be pimping hard for HD-DVD when you say studio support doesn't matter. Studio support is probably what's accounted for BluRay outselling HD-DVD 2:1 all year despite higher player prices. Heck, people are buying the higher-priced BluRay players at about the same rate as HD-DVD players (and that's not counting the PS3) and the only reason to do that would be the movie selection or the technology-- and I don't think it's the technology.
what do you guys think of the hdd report that Weinstein hasn't released a new hd-dvd in months and won't comment on the status of their HD support?
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...er_Weinstein_Goes_MIA_Speculation_Mounts/1105
They have to know if they put Grindhouse on Blu-Ray in the CORRECT package (both movies + trailers + bonus content), it would be a megaton with the PS3-owning crowd.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...er_Weinstein_Goes_MIA_Speculation_Mounts/1105
They have to know if they put Grindhouse on Blu-Ray in the CORRECT package (both movies + trailers + bonus content), it would be a megaton with the PS3-owning crowd.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Can anyone comment on the quality of the A2 in terms of upconversion to 1080p for normal DVDs? Does it even have this feature?
GamePnoy74
Member
Anyone know what's the cheapest place to the get the Spider-Man BD Trilogy? Best price I can find for it right now is $65 at Amazon...
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
Apologies if I sounded like studio support didn't matter. Not at all what I meant to imply, as I do think it's hugely in favor of Blu-Ray at this point, and I do think it matters. All I was trying to say was that if HD-DVD were to become the format of choice, the studios will fall in line. Likeway, Paramount and the few other HD-DVD exclusives will cave if Blu-Ray "wins" as well.
I was just trying to say technology wise there appears to be little difference between the two formats, besides capacity. I don't lump studio support as a technical difference between them.
Edit: Also! I really wasn't trying to start an argument. I was just curious about the orginal statement. I couldn't care less who "wins" the format war. I just wish someone would so I could buy in without fear of getting burned down the line.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
What I don't understand is why Transformers is not now a part of the "baseline", why are we discounting it? Did we take that same approach with Casino Royale, Matrix, the PoTC movies, etc?
Why is it that we have to look "outside" of that, when its obvious that Transformers, with its huge sales, obviously impacted the HD DVD owner's spending. Meaning, how can you discount Transformers and assume folks who bought that movie wouldn't' have bought something else? You can't just take that movie out and think that everything else would be equal otherwise. That's absurd.
Phobophile
A scientist and gentleman in the manner of Batman.
So if we see BRD "winning," would a price drop on media be imminent? I'd hop on the wagon, but I can't see myself paying double retail of DVD prices for new releases. It seems like Planet Earth is the only comparatively priced release.
Zombie James
Banned
So with basically the biggest high-def release ever, they still couldn't top Blu-ray for the week?
theBishop said:
I think it's been known for months that something is up with Weinstein. Maybe they're going Blu. Maybe they're taking a wait-and-see approach to this holiday to see how hardware sales shake out. I'd heard they weren't getting fantastic returns on their HD-media investment, in which case it's best to sit back and jump in again when the market makes it worthwhile. I understand they're a pretty small studio, so that makes sense.
Be interesting to see which side they jump back in on.
fortified_concept
Banned
VanMardigan said:
Because Transformers like the BR deal was a PR stunt which Toshiba payed cash for. We still don't know if Paramount is truely exclusive to HDDVD not to mention that this was HDDVD biggest chance this year to outsell BR. Seriously if you think that after this HDDVD has a chance in hell to win this war you're kidding yourself. Toshiba spent 150 million and still didn't manage to outsell BR for one single week. PS3 is having a huge price cut, BR's biggest releases are yet to come and HDDVD has nothing bigger to offer this year (or the next to tell you the truth). It's over.
StoOgE said:
Well, perhaps a bit higher, but not drastically so. Early DVD releases (Blade Runner, The Matrix) had a MSRP of $25, or roughly $30 today adjusted for inflation. Blu-ray's pricing of $35 is a tad higher than that and would obviously go down were it to become the widely accepted format. As for the HD-DVD combo disc price of $40, yeah, that's just plain greed and isn't helping their cause any.
FnordChan
BotoxAgent
Member
Wow, I expected Blu Ray to loose at least this week to HDDVD
BluRay has barely launched its good titles. With Pirates, Spiderman 3, Ratatouille, Die Hard, etc., HDDVD is going to have trouble catching up. Transformers was probably their best shot.
BluRay has barely launched its good titles. With Pirates, Spiderman 3, Ratatouille, Die Hard, etc., HDDVD is going to have trouble catching up. Transformers was probably their best shot.
Well this was HD-DVD's chance to shine this year and they still lost. I don't think this is good for them.
Next week a certain title called Spiderman 3 is coming (BTW it's already out here in europe and it looks stunning, better than Casino Royale) so which numbers should we expect? BR has a strong content advantage from now until the end of the holyday season and November will probably see the price of standalone readers being cut (as hinted by Panasonic and Disney) if PS3 at 399 wasn't enough. So in my opinion a clear winner will be decided by the public this holyday season, then all the companies involved will have to realize it and put an end to this stupid format war. Prolonging it any longer is not just a damage for customers but for the long term growth opportunities of all the companies involved, so I think next year is the deadline for final decisions.
Next week a certain title called Spiderman 3 is coming (BTW it's already out here in europe and it looks stunning, better than Casino Royale) so which numbers should we expect? BR has a strong content advantage from now until the end of the holyday season and November will probably see the price of standalone readers being cut (as hinted by Panasonic and Disney) if PS3 at 399 wasn't enough. So in my opinion a clear winner will be decided by the public this holyday season, then all the companies involved will have to realize it and put an end to this stupid format war. Prolonging it any longer is not just a damage for customers but for the long term growth opportunities of all the companies involved, so I think next year is the deadline for final decisions.
Alcibiades
Member
Well, I saw in fatwallet & slickdeals that people were still getting it to work this morning, so I went ahead and got another add-on drive, this time with Heroes, Planet Earth, and Smallville Season 6 free (instead of Planet Earth & Transformers)
Wasn't sure what to go for, but I'm hoping I could sell everything enough to break even and make it so that I end up getting Planet Earth, Smallville, and Transformers free.
Another thing is to decide whether to keep an add-on for use with a PC later on... I'll probably try to sell both, but I doubt they are going to go for much after this deal... seems like a lot of fatwallet/slickdeals people got wind of it...
I don't feel too bad though, cause there were still TONS of add-on drives left, and I think at least 1 or 2 more Heroes, so it seems nobody in my town (College Station, TX), is even partaking in this deal...
Wasn't sure what to go for, but I'm hoping I could sell everything enough to break even and make it so that I end up getting Planet Earth, Smallville, and Transformers free.
Another thing is to decide whether to keep an add-on for use with a PC later on... I'll probably try to sell both, but I doubt they are going to go for much after this deal... seems like a lot of fatwallet/slickdeals people got wind of it...
I don't feel too bad though, cause there were still TONS of add-on drives left, and I think at least 1 or 2 more Heroes, so it seems nobody in my town (College Station, TX), is even partaking in this deal...
sixteen-bit
Member
Shinobi said:
SACD too.
KZObsessed
Member
theBishop said:
A while ago a BD Insider over at Blu-ray.com said Grindhouse was planned for a BD release, and recently said that Weinstein's main concern is the cost of release versus the potential sales and said "they would see what they can do to help..."
Seems very likely Weinstein are going to announce Blu-Ray support.
Add another one to the January 8th hi-def-a-thon.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...n_Fire_to_Ignite_on_Blu-ray_this_January/1108
Man on Fire Jan 8th.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...n_Fire_to_Ignite_on_Blu-ray_this_January/1108
Man on Fire Jan 8th.
Shinobi said:
MiniDisc was a great format that actually lasted for quite a while. Hi-MiniDisc was something that needed to come along, because standard MD just couldn't cut it anymore.
UMD, though... I do think it would have made perfect sense from a consumer standpoint for Sony to have used some sort of "next-gen" MD format for the PSP, and allow the PSP to play back MD and H-MD discs. I'm sure, though, that the decision to go with UMD was made due to concerns for game piracy being easy via H-MD (even if things had to be cut from the game, like GD > CD piracy went for Dreamcast titles), and Sony's initial decision to almost completely lock the PSP down when it came to user-generated video content.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Van, you should be able to discount any *single* title and see the same picture. Transfromers just happens to be the only thing propping up the HD DVD tent right now.
If you discount Casino Royale's sales, or the pair of POTC movies, BluRay still dominates.
Even if we dicount Spider-Man upon its release, BluRay is still going to show dominant numbers.
As I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. HD-DVD even lost ther sprint, though, beat by a bunch of discs at 50% off.
Anyway, the point wasn't to say Transformers didn't count-- just that the rest of the marketplace didn't move, and now that Transformers is past, it's pretty predictable for the rest of the year.
If you discount Casino Royale's sales, or the pair of POTC movies, BluRay still dominates.
Even if we dicount Spider-Man upon its release, BluRay is still going to show dominant numbers.
As I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. HD-DVD even lost ther sprint, though, beat by a bunch of discs at 50% off.
Anyway, the point wasn't to say Transformers didn't count-- just that the rest of the marketplace didn't move, and now that Transformers is past, it's pretty predictable for the rest of the year.
That "normal week if you discount Transformers and BOGO sales" wasn't to be taken so seriously.
Don't be so sure. There are three weeks that HD DVD has a chance:
1) This week. Residual Transformer sales, Best Buy HD DVD packins, & no big BOGO BD sales. Van made a good point about the number of new titles but it could still go either way.
2) Shrek week. Shrek is the #2 highest grossing film of the the year. It made more then Transformers. Now the demand probably won't be as hight but it could still sell big. No major BD day and date releases that week however there will still be residual sales from Pixar films (week before) and Spiderman (2 weeks before).
3) The big one IMO: Star Trek week. There is no DVD only SKU for this only HD DVD combo format. Any hardcore Trekkie that wants to own a remastered version of season one of TOS will buy this. The implications on the ratio could be huge and long lasting. I'm not even sure how the HDM research companies will account for this.
I don't think Borune will win that week because honest I think Pirates and Superbad will own that week even though they will be out one week before.
fortified_concept said:
Don't be so sure. There are three weeks that HD DVD has a chance:
1) This week. Residual Transformer sales, Best Buy HD DVD packins, & no big BOGO BD sales. Van made a good point about the number of new titles but it could still go either way.
2) Shrek week. Shrek is the #2 highest grossing film of the the year. It made more then Transformers. Now the demand probably won't be as hight but it could still sell big. No major BD day and date releases that week however there will still be residual sales from Pixar films (week before) and Spiderman (2 weeks before).
3) The big one IMO: Star Trek week. There is no DVD only SKU for this only HD DVD combo format. Any hardcore Trekkie that wants to own a remastered version of season one of TOS will buy this. The implications on the ratio could be huge and long lasting. I'm not even sure how the HDM research companies will account for this.
I don't think Borune will win that week because honest I think Pirates and Superbad will own that week even though they will be out one week before.
user friendly
Member
Even with the $198 1080i A2, HD DVD is going to have a rough holiday. BD is like a snowball affect, every PS3 bought potentially sells BD movies as well.
Some people seem pretty upset about the bogo deal trumping the transformers week and yet forget about the rather tard move by Toshiba to pay 150 million for something they already had. They should have just put the money towards a bogo or marketing or dropping a lot of their players. Having a flawless year for BD is huge for the BDA's PR.
Some people seem pretty upset about the bogo deal trumping the transformers week and yet forget about the rather tard move by Toshiba to pay 150 million for something they already had. They should have just put the money towards a bogo or marketing or dropping a lot of their players. Having a flawless year for BD is huge for the BDA's PR.
user friendly
Member
Honestly, Meet The Robinsons will probably break any legs that Transformers had left. Also, look how Knocked up fell off, Tranformers will probably follow suite.Oni Jazar said:
~ Close Encounters 3rd KindOni Jazar said:
~ I Robot
There's a few more BD exclusives but those will probably be the top two for BD. There's quite a few releases for that week.
No chance, not against the Die Hard BD's anyway.Oni Jazar said:
Oni Jazar said:
I doubt HD DVD will have a chance at taking a single week for the rest of this year.
user friendly said:
Hope you're right but I think you are being overly optimistic. 1) No way does Meet the Robinsons compare to Transformers week 2. 2) No way does I Robot even merit any discussion about sales. 3) DVD sales make HD DVD and Blu-ray fight look like a pimple on ass of a flea - if ST Season 1 pulls any kind of numbers it will be a tidal wave.
Dabookerman
Member
Ok i need to know.
Pirates of the Caribbean Trilogy boxset and
LOTR
Blu ray
When, please.
Pirates of the Caribbean Trilogy boxset and
LOTR
Blu ray
When, please.
Oni Jazar said:
ST is a very interesting possibility. I'm not sure what the demand is going to be for a rerelease.. but trekkies are huge followers... and I think there might be some backlash about "remastering" the series (similar to Start Wars fans).
To be honest, Im not sure how "fair" that is going to be. HDDVD could "win" the week, but really it would be DVD doing the dirty work.
Im still torn about buying it myself... i want it, but not 120 dollars want this. Hopefully BB has a similar computer error when it comes out :lol
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
StoOgE said:
No complaining about tactics. All's fair in love, war and business.
It's wasn't "fair" that BD Group sponsored a bunch of sales the week of Transformers
It wasn't "fair" that HD-DVD Group bought out Paramount to get Transformers exclusive in the first place
It wasn't "fair" for Sony to include a BluRay Player at subsidized cost in the form of the PS3
None of the exclusives on either side are "fair"
None of this has been fair from the beginning. It's just a war, there're winners and losers, but nothing about fairness.
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