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[Snah]

Sorry to butt in, but does anyone know HOW they're selling an HD-DVD player at hundreds less than the cheapest blu-ray? Are they losing money on each unit or is there really that great a processing discrepancy between the two formats?

Toshiba is taking a loss on these units, and a considerable one at that. As for a discrepancy between the hardware units; there really isn't one in terms of cost as far as I know. The DSPs required for both are the same since they basically need to be able to process 1080p video. I also don't think blu-ray diodes are much more expensive than the ones in HD-DVD players.

 

[Warm Machine]

Toshiba is bleeding money in hopes that their precious format takes off and they can get royalties...

What is Sony doing then?

 

[BoboBrazil]

Sony is putting out money to push the blu-ray format, but nowhere near to the level Toshiba is doing. Plus blu-ray has much more industry support. That is why you can find players from pretty much any hardware manufacturer besides toshiba, whereas what is your choice for a hd-dvd player??

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Toshiba is taking a loss on these units, and a considerable one at that. As for a discrepancy between the hardware units; there really isn't one in terms of cost as far as I know. The DSPs required for both are the same since they basically need to be able to process 1080p video. I also don't think blu-ray diodes are much more expensive than the ones in HD-DVD players.

Thanks snah, that was the impression I was under as well, but since sometimes things aren't as obvious as they seem, I thought it best to ask those more up to date.

 

[Snah]

You run around saying that is a fact that BD is going to win. Let me tell you, my fact that combo players will be plentiful is far more factful than your nonsense.

Sorry if you interpreted my statement as one of fact. I should have reworded as a prediction, and I feel very strongly about it otherwise I wouldn't have invested in blu-ray to begin with.

Combo players right now are incredibly expensive and there's no indicator that they will be very plentiful and cheap anytime soon.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Sorry to butt in, but does anyone know HOW they're selling an HD-DVD player at hundreds less than the cheapest blu-ray? Are they losing money on each unit or is there really that great a processing discrepancy between the two formats?

Fair question.
The player being sold for 98 even just last week sold for 299 most places, so there is not that huge of a gap.
I think most also agree that they are most likely taking a rather large loss at $98 but it could be a good trade off in growing their software sales which would make it worth it in the long run.
Right now each side knows the importance of winning for their format and trying to win soon.
Right now bluray is winning week after week in software sales, and this is Toshiba's way of trying to land a critical shot.

As far as your main question also, yes there are some feature variations.
The A2 is 720p/1080i though that does not matter to a good chunk of HDTV owners since they have 1080i max tvs and it had a decent but not top range upscaler.
I think one mistake Toshiba is making is confusing sku units.
A2-A20-Ax2-A3-A30-Ax3 and so on.

Do not get me wrong though, if you say hd-dvd start winning week after week you better believe that you would see Sony and LG throwing down some modified budget units also.
I think that Sony may be hurting themselves and BD a bit by not wanting to put BD players out for cheaper than the PS3 because it could hurt PS3 sales.
While I agree that is a true possibility, they really are playing a dangerous game with the format as a whole if it doesn't pan out.

 

[SSGMUN10000]

So does anyone know what time in the am is WM allowed to sell these?

 

[Days like these...]

Working 3rd shift sucks. I'm gonna swing by my local Walmart after in the morning and see if I can get in on the hd dvd deal. Has anyone been to their local Walmart? Are people lining up already?

 

[Warm Machine]

Sony is putting out money to push the blu-ray format, but nowhere near to the level Toshiba is doing. Plus blu-ray has much more industry support. That is why you can find players from pretty much any hardware manufacturer besides toshiba, whereas what is your choice for a hd-dvd player??

End of the day industry support doesn't matter. Toshiba and the HD-DVD camp want to create the defacto standard, that is what this is all about. Both sides are doing whatever they can to get that prize. Toshiba themselves are just being incredibly aggressive at the moment. Don't fool yourself into thinking Sony is taking any kind of high road. Their non stop marketing FUD since october 2006 has led to all kinds of real fear uncertainty and doubt. How many times did Universal is about to go neutral stories did we have to hear over the last 12 months? Don't think too that Sony isn't going to counter this with their own tactics shorty. 7 weeks till xmas is a long time in a CE war.

Personally I couldn't care less if Toshiba was the only company making an HD-DVD player. Just like I don't care that the only company that manufactures a 360 is MS or a PS3 Sony.

 

[OokieSpookie]

So does anyone know what time in the am is WM allowed to sell these?

8am I believe

 

[aktham]

OK guys you didn't hear this from me, but it sounds like WM will be having 4 more "secret sales" this year. WM is NOT leaning towards HDDVD, they will support both formats until a winner is announced. It is simply a big sale to give WM a head start on the Xmas shopping rush. One of the "secret" shopping days is supposed to push bluray in a similar manner.

On a different topic: People calling WM were asking if the "DVD player that makes DVDs HD quality" was on sale yet. :lol

 

[BoboBrazil]

Working in retail you have no idea how clueless the general public is regarding hd...I get people every day that think an hd tv automatically makes everything hd. I get people that think blu-ray discs can be played in regular dvd players. I get people that don't know regular tv will be stretched unless they want bars...Joe Schmoe is really very clueless in regards to hd.

 

[Ponn]

End of the day industry support doesn't matter.

Eh?

Personally I couldn't care less if Toshiba was the only company making an HD-DVD player. Just like I don't care that the only company that manufactures a 360 is MS or a PS3 Sony.

Home video is quite different then the videogame industry.

 

[laceystorm]

"Warner Lets Their Bluray License Expire?!

Reports are circulating that Warner Brothers' Bluray license expired last night, October 31st, and that they have not renewed it! This would be a very clear signal that they may not continue support of Bluray releases. No confirmation is yet forthcoming, but speculation is rife that an official decision may be forthcoming from Warner before the end of the year. It is said that Warner is very interested in seeing the sales of HD DVD players at their new price points starting at $198 at various retailers such as Circuit City, Walmart, Best Buy and many more. Tomorrow, Walmart also runs a half-day sale on Toshiba A2 players at an incredible $99!"

 

[Snah]

"Warner Lets Their Bluray License Expire?!

Reports are circulating that Warner Brothers' Bluray license expired last night, October 31st, and that they have not renewed it! This would be a very clear signal that they may not continue support of Bluray releases. No confirmation is yet forthcoming, but speculation is rife that an official decision may be forthcoming from Warner before the end of the year. It is said that Warner is very interested in seeing the sales of HD DVD players at their new price points starting at $198 at various retailers such as Circuit City, Walmart, Best Buy and many more. Tomorrow, Walmart also runs a half-day sale on Toshiba A2 players at an incredible $99!"

let me guess, an hd-dvd insider on avs leaked this amazing news?

 

[lupin23rd]

WTF is a Blu-ray "license".

 

[Diatribe1974]

let me guess, an hd-dvd insider on avs leaked this amazing news?

Only problem with dismissing the 'news' of this, is the fact that in this day and age, the Blu-Ray camp would've made an announcement of the "Continuing support from Warner Bros and their steadfast belief in the Blu-Ray format....." <---- Or something at least to that degree.

But there's been nothing. If things had been locked down, in the bag, 100% a sure thing.....their Press Release would've been prepared weeks (if not months) ago.

But there's been nothing.

Makes you wonder what's going on, eh?

Perhaps Warner Bros is just sitting out this Xmas. They're going to give Wal-Mart it's chance to sell a bajillion HD-DVD players (or it's attempts at least)...... then make their decision on which camp to pitch their tent in: Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

The fact the Warner is now even giving this a chance to happen speaks volumes.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Personally I think WM are about to go HD-DVD all the way

You try explaining to Jo6p what a blu ray player is...

HD-DVD requires no explanation so its half the battle done

 

[lupin23rd]

Personally I think WM are about to go HD-DVD all the way

You try explaining to Jo6p what a blu ray player is...

HD-DVD requires no explanation so its half the battle done

On a different topic: People calling WM were asking if the "DVD player that makes DVDs HD quality" was on sale yet. :lol

I think J6P has a ways to go yet, in either case.

 

[Barnolde]

Personally I think WM are about to go HD-DVD all the way

You try explaining to Jo6p what a blu ray player is...

HD-DVD requires no explanation so its half the battle done

Customer: "What's that blue Spiderman disc that comes with the PS3?"
Employee: "Oh, it's nothing, here, buy this thing, it's called HD DVD, it's hi def dvd!"

 

[OokieSpookie]

"Warner Lets Their Bluray License Expire?!

Reports are circulating that Warner Brothers' Bluray license expired last night, October 31st, and that they have not renewed it! This would be a very clear signal that they may not continue support of Bluray releases. No confirmation is yet forthcoming, but speculation is rife that an official decision may be forthcoming from Warner before the end of the year. It is said that Warner is very interested in seeing the sales of HD DVD players at their new price points starting at $198 at various retailers such as Circuit City, Walmart, Best Buy and many more. Tomorrow, Walmart also runs a half-day sale on Toshiba A2 players at an incredible $99!"

You people seriously need to stop with this shit.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/warner-bros-has-no-plans-to-drop-hd-neutrality/4876

Quote:
Speculation started when Warner Bros.' VP of HD Media, Dan Silverberg, hinted that the studio was evaluating its stand on being HD neutral in the format war. It led many to believe that the studio would choose sides.

However, WB spokesman Jim Noogan talked with Video Business Online yesterday and confirmed that they would stay neutral.

He said that the company always evaluated its business models and also did this with HD support, and that he believed the fourth quarter would be important for both sides. The result will be another piece of information on where things are going, but for now the studio will support both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Personally I think WM are about to go HD-DVD all the way

You try explaining to Jo6p what a blu ray player is...

HD-DVD requires no explanation so its half the battle done

Actually has has been discussed many times in this thread, the HD-DVD name can be seen as more of a hindering affect then helpful because people see "dvd" and think "dvd" and they see Blu Ray and think it is something new and different.

 

[Aaron]

The problem is people see Blu-ray and go 'wtf?' Neither name works particularly well. My father is rather tech savvy, and I still had to explain the blu, while hd-dvd was clear as a bell to him. He's going blu ray btw, because he's had good luck with Sony electronics. Too good. He wants his current TV to die so he can get something in hi def. The thing is almost ten years old and still works without a single fault.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Actually has has been discussed many times in this thread, the HD-DVD name can be seen as more of a hindering affect then helpful because people see "dvd" and think "dvd" and they see Blu Ray and think it is something new and different.

People dont like something new and different, they like things they can understand

I'll say it again

HD

DVD

Its a sensible iteration of what they already understand, if you then say to them,

"there is also blu ray to consider"

you then make things a million times more complicated and have to start talking about, manufacturers and studios

Keep it simple

 

[OokieSpookie]

The problem is people see Blu-ray and go 'wtf?' Neither name works particularly well. My father is rather tech savvy, and I still had to explain the blu, while hd-dvd was clear as a bell to him.

I agree that both can lead to confusion, but fixing hat is why marketing execs make the money that they do.
This thread could easily go twenty pages just on everyone chiming in anecdotal evidence going either way honestly.
Obviously with the sales figures, while neither are doing a bang up job blu is doing the better job...

 

[OokieSpookie]

People dont like something new and different, they like things they can understand

I'll say it again

HD

DVD

Its a sensible iteration of what they already understand, if you then say to them,

"there is also blu ray to consider"

you then make things a million times more complicated and have to start talking about, manufacturers and studios

Keep it simple

As in my previous response all I have to say is that with a sales lead week after week blu seems to be doing pretty good for itself out of the two choices anyway.
Both could use a nice boost though.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

As in my previous response all I have to say is that with a sales lead week after week blu seems to be doing pretty good for itself out of the two choices anyway.
Both could use a nice boost though.

Blu ray may have a lead at the moment but that is largely due to the PS3 and people picking up a disc to check it out. However there will be a law of diminishing returns as the PS3 gets more mainstream, the early adopter crowd are more likely to be aware and more likely to have an HD TV.

If Wall mart make the switch, (heavily advertising HD DVD would seem to suggest so) then it could be game over

 

[lupin23rd]

I dunno if this is true everywhere, but more often than not when I see HD DVD advertised, it's an upconverting DVD player, not a real HD-DVD player.

I saw a Samsung DLP with a free HD DVD player advertised, and then had to do a double-take and then I realized Samsung didn't make HD DVD players, and sure enough it was upconverting.

Where was that quote about Warner not renewing from? I didn't see anything on either the BD or HD sections of AVS, and I'm sure that it would get attention over there.

 

[OokieSpookie]

I dunno if this is true everywhere, but more often than not when I see HD DVD advertised, it's an upconverting DVD player, not a real HD-DVD player.

I saw a Samsung DLP with a free HD DVD player advertised, and then had to do a double-take and then I realized Samsung didn't make HD DVD players, and sure enough it was upconverting.

Where was that quote about Warner not renewing from? I didn't see anything on either the BD or HD sections of AVS, and I'm sure that it would get attention over there.

The not renewing is just fud.
The quote that themainevent posted earlier and i reposted on this page was made yesterday with then reaffirming neutrality.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

I dunno if this is true everywhere, but more often than not when I see HD DVD advertised, it's an upconverting DVD player, not a real HD-DVD player.

I saw a Samsung DLP with a free HD DVD player advertised, and then had to do a double-take and then I realized Samsung didn't make HD DVD players, and sure enough it was upconverting.

Where was that quote about Warner not renewing from? I didn't see anything on either the BD or HD sections of AVS, and I'm sure that it would get attention over there.

just a crappy rumour

 

[OokieSpookie]

Blu ray may have a lead at the moment but that is largely due to the PS3 and people picking up a disc to check it out. However there will be a law of diminishing returns as the PS3 gets more mainstream, the early adopter crowd are more likely to be aware and more likely to have an HD TV.

If Wall mart make the switch, (heavily advertising HD DVD would seem to suggest so) then it could be game over

I agree the first part is always a possibility.
The second not so much, especially with the tv ads not pushing the price and it is even mislabeled as just a dvd drive on the website.
It will sell tons of course, but I wouldn't read more into the ads than is there.
I mean I do not see Acer laptop fans jumping to conclusions...

 

[mr_bishiuk]

I agree the first part is always a possibility.
The second not so much, especially with the tv ads not pushing the price and it is even mislabeled as just a dvd drive on the website.
It will sell tons of course, but I wouldn't read more into the ads than is there.
I mean I do not see Acer laptop fans jumping to conclusions...

I'm not so sure, by actually pushing one format when they are fully aware of the huge battle going on, they are making a statement of intent, well in my eyes at least,

That advert is very clever "HD-DVD is a desirable gift this Christmas", they cant then go and fail to support it afterwards

 

[Alcibiades]

Looks like Dreamworks Animation is working VERY closely with Toshiba for this Christmas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYxYxn3iTA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuJDgxIpR8

Those moneyhats will at least serve some purpose....

I loved the first 2 Shrek movies, but didn't watch the 3rd one cause it got bad reviews, so I'm probably not going to pick it up in HD...

 

[OokieSpookie]

Looks like Dreamworks Animation is working VERY closely with Toshiba for this Christmas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYxYxn3iTA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuJDgxIpR8

Those moneyhats will at least serve some purpose....

I loved the first 2 Shrek movies, but didn't watch the 3rd one cause it got bad reviews, so I'm probably not going to pick it up in HD...

Like the movie or not, it will be a definite show piece and will look amazing I am sure.
(Same reason I ended up grabbing Spidey 3 even though I hated it)

 

[mr_bishiuk]

Looks like Dreamworks Animation is working VERY closely with Toshiba for this Christmas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYxYxn3iTA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuJDgxIpR8

Those moneyhats will at least serve some purpose....

I loved the first 2 Shrek movies, but didn't watch the 3rd one cause it got bad reviews, so I'm probably not going to pick it up in HD...

Impressive ads

 

[Forsete]

just a crappy rumour

Posted in the HD-DVD section no less. :lol

 

[Diatribe1974]

As in my previous response all I have to say is that with a sales lead week after week blu seems to be doing pretty good for itself out of the two choices anyway.
Both could use a nice boost though.

60 million "Mom's and Dad's" styled folks out there. They see Blu-Ray. They see HD-DVD. To them, being the extremely uneducated tech-saavy-less people they are, seeing the HD-DVD logo is easier to put 2+2 together and go "Ah, so that's the one that's the High Definition one!" (picture the Wil E Coyote styled lightbulb going off over their heads). With Blu-Ray, for them, it's a harder transitional leap to figure that one out.

And it's that very same 60 million people at Wal-Mart that'll decide the winner of this format war. Not the studios: Wal-Mart.

 

[lupin23rd]

Posted in the HD-DVD section no less. :lol

In the HD-DVD PLAYER section to boot. And only one response in the last half an hour? I'd expect a pack of fuckin pirahnas on a post like that.

 

[OokieSpookie]

60 million "Mom's and Dad's" styled folks out there. They see Blu-Ray. They see HD-DVD. To them, being the extremely uneducated tech-saavy-less people they are, seeing the HD-DVD logo is easier to put 2+2 together and go "Ah, so that's the one that's the High Definition one!" (picture the Wil E Coyote styled lightbulb going off over their heads). With Blu-Ray, for them, it's a harder transitional leap to figure that one out.

And it's that very same 60 million people at Wal-Mart that'll decide the winner of this format war. Not the studios: Wal-Mart.

Wow...as much as I would love to take some time on that, I am tired and going to bed.
I will leave it by just saying that we will see...

 

[justjohn]

that avs forum is incredible. holy shit i seriously expect some suicide attempts from some of them if one of those formats actually dies off. its one thing being passionate, but those guys are just fucking insane.:lol

 

[M3wThr33]

60 million "Mom's and Dad's" styled folks out there. They see Blu-Ray. They see HD-DVD. To them, being the extremely uneducated tech-saavy-less people they are, seeing the HD-DVD logo is easier to put 2+2 together and go "Ah, so that's the one that's the High Definition one!" (picture the Wil E Coyote styled lightbulb going off over their heads). With Blu-Ray, for them, it's a harder transitional leap to figure that one out.

And it's that very same 60 million people at Wal-Mart that'll decide the winner of this format war. Not the studios: Wal-Mart.

Then they buy it. Take it home. See the black bars. Return it and spend the refunded $30 on 6 regular fullscreen DVDs and bad mouth it to all their friends.

 

[Diatribe1974]

Wow...as much as I would love to take some time on that, I am tired and going to bed.
I will leave it by just saying that we will see...

I've long since stated (and you can check over on TXB) that the only way a "winner" would be decided in the High Definition DVD format war would be that of "Who can get a low cost High Def DVD player into Wal-Mart 1st and get America's attention....." The company that does that, wins. If HD-DVD did it 1st, then they win. If Blu-Ray did it 1st, then they win. Other than that, nothing else will decide the "winner" of the war. Not Circuit City. Not Best Buy. Not K-Mart lol), not anyone, other than Wal-Mart. No amount of hype from Toshiba, Microsoft, Sony, Disney, ect could do anything to change the hearts and minds of america faster than an impulse purchase at 3am at Wal-Mart.

 

[Diatribe1974]

Then they buy it. Take it home. See the black bars. Return it and spend the refunded $30 on 6 regular fullscreen DVDs and bad mouth it to all their friends.

Boy, you sure are a little defensive when someone offers up a little common sense and realism, eh? Am I sensing a little blu-autodefensive-mechanism kicking in here?

 

[Forsete]

that avs forum is incredible. holy shit i seriously expect some suicide attempts from some of them if one of those formats actually dies off. its one thing being passionate, but those guys are just fucking insane.:lol

If some of the signatures are to be trusted, some of the guys there buy almost ALL the movies that are out on respective format... wow, considering how much junk each format has.

 

[M3wThr33]

No. I just don't expect either format to pickup as long as DVD is still a choice.

Hell, the sheer existence of fullscreen movies just scares me. It's not like the Wal-Mart crowd ever buys the higher-end of ANYTHING.

Prove me wrong, get this whole stupid format war done with and we can see the real studio releases.

 

[Diatribe1974]

Oh, I don't see *any* format being dominant any time soon. Right now, DVD players are the VCRs that Tape Decks were in yester-year. At least in america, the cycle *is* improving faster than it ever has been.

Now, if they can sell High Def 1080p TV's faster than they are now, *then* we'd see a faster in-home penetration of whichever High Def DVD format that's going to win.

 

[mrklaw]

Then they buy it. Take it home. See the black bars. Return it and spend the refunded $30 on 6 regular fullscreen DVDs and bad mouth it to all their friends.

about right. I love how $100 players will sell loads of software. Not at $29.99 a disc it won't. You'll just sell lots of players, a few discs at the offer prices, then not very many afterwards.

This isn't a hardware war, its a format war. Needs sales of software to reflect increases in hardware sales, otherwise its a pointless exercise

 

[Aika'svyse]

Toshiba taking big hit to sell players under 100 and Sony taking a big hit on PS3

I really think the Name will have some impact on the mainstream public when/IF the big rollover from dvd happens, It's just to easy to walk in a store and ask for HDdvd. Bluray is a horrid name, and really i know they put alot into marketing it but they need to rename it now.

In the meantime i dont see name being a factor, because i'd think the people mostly buying these players are pretty tech savvy anyway.

 

[titiklabingapat]

that avs forum is incredible. holy shit i seriously expect some suicide attempts from some of them if one of those formats actually dies off. its one thing being passionate, but those guys are just fucking insane.:lol

I see you participating in system wars sometimes(or some item ago), you should have emphatized better

 

[justjohn]

I see you participating in system wars sometimes(or some item ago), you should have emphatized better

my system war participation is pretty lame compared to those guys. they've taken it to a whole new level.