Support NeoGAF

[OokieSpookie]

I see a lot of college chicks in the Wal-Mart near me, because it's so close to the university. They may very well be retarded by varying degrees, but they sure are hot.

And I think bargain hunters are probably already savvy to lower prices on Amazon, etc. No one has to spend $25-30 on a new release HD DVD or Blu Ray, if they know enough to shop around. I doubt the typical Wal-mart bunch even casts a glance at the HD DVD or Blu Ray rack as they pass.

We will find out soon enough.

 

[Beer Monkey]

People seem to act like this is day one for the format.
From day one HD-DVD has been the cheaper alternative, it has always had a good difference of $200 or more from the closest BluRay player.
Yet BD wins WEEK after WEEK.

Yet both were priced out of the mainstream. If HD-DVD stays at $199 and under for entry, and BD stays at $399, only one is priced for the mainstream.

 

[thaivo]

I do not think it will make a difference.

While that's what you think. For the people that I talked to this morning at Walmart, it made a difference to them.

 

[Eel O'Brian]

People seem to act like this is day one for the format.
From day one HD-DVD has been the cheaper alternative, it has always had a good difference of $200 or more from the closest BluRay player.
Yet BD wins WEEK after WEEK.
It has survived combo disks, it has survived "superior versions", it has survived Sony hate, it has survived studio defecting, it has survived the biggest release ever on HD, it has survived the Heroes +2 movies of your choice and not just survived it has led.

HD has had over a year of being the cheaper alternative and it has made no difference.
While I believe that this is the best move for Toshiba, and I believe it is good for consumers I do not think it will make a difference.

This thread deals with the influx of people who jump in every time there is some press for one side or another, people who come in and then leave when it does not go their way until the next big rumor.

When this doesn't give hd a winning week or two then what?

I won't care, that's what. You're wasting your arguments on me. I don't have a side in this, as I own both an HD DVD player and a PS3. I'm a fan of movies, not formats. I hope this idiotic "war" lasts another year if it's going to get me a few more BOGO deals.

However, earlier in this thread when some were complaining about HD Media prices, there were those who were saying things along the lines of HD media being priced accordingly for what you're getting - and now some of those same people are saying the price is too high for most consumers. There's more flip-flopping going on in this thread than there is at the beach on July 4th.

 

[OokieSpookie]

While that's what you think. For the people that I talked to this morning at Walmart, it made a difference to them.

Well gosh golly that makes it all different than doesn't it.

 

[Kolgar]

Yet both were priced out of the mainstream. If HD-DVD stays at $199 and under for entry, and BD stays at $399, only one is priced for the mainstream.

Priced for the mass market.

Fully spec'd (i.e., the format's features are all complete in every player).

Ready for primetime.

 

[OokieSpookie]

I won't care, that's what. You're wasting your arguments on me. I don't have a side in this, as I own both an HD DVD player and a PS3. I'm a fan of movies, not formats. I hope this idiotic "war" lasts another year if it's going to get me a few more BOGO deals.

However, earlier in this thread when some were complaining about HD Media prices, there were those who were saying things along the lines of HD media being priced accordingly for what you're getting - and now some of those same people are saying the price is too high for most consumers. There's more flip-flopping going on in this thread than there is at the beach on July 4th.

We are not talking about most consumers here honestly, we are talking about people who would wait in line for hours to pick up a $98 1080i hd-dvd player.
But I can see where you are coming from.

 

[VanMardigan]

People seem to act like this is day one for the format.
From day one HD-DVD has been the cheaper alternative, it has always had a good difference of $200 or more from the closest BluRay player.
Yet BD wins WEEK after WEEK.
It has survived combo disks, it has survived "superior versions", it has survived Sony hate, it has survived studio defecting, it has survived the biggest release ever on HD, it has survived the Heroes +2 movies of your choice and not just survived it has led.

HD has had over a year of being the cheaper alternative and it has made no difference.
While I believe that this is the best move for Toshiba, and I believe it is good for consumers I do not think it will make a difference.

This thread deals with the influx of people who jump in every time there is some press for one side or another, people who come in and then leave when it does not go their way until the next big rumor.

When this doesn't give hd a winning week or two then what?

Actually, HD DVD outsold BD last year until Sony launched their Ps3.. The Ps3 changed the landscape, obviously, but we may very well be at another crossroads here. The Ps3 itself proved that you can take momentum and shove it out the door provided you can move enough units and get enough players into people's hands.

To assume that this won't have an impact because HD DVD has had the lower prices isn't taking into effect the Ps3 factor. It's not like we're comparing apples to apples here. You've got affordability on one side, but the Blu Ray team has the successor to the most successful console of all time playing its discs. That produced 2-1 sales results. Now, HD DVD hits mainstream prices, which NEITHER side had previously achieved. So don't pretend like we can use current trends to figure out what will happen. There were a lot of HD DVD folks who didn't think the Ps3 would have much of an impact, either. If nothing else, Toshiba has found a way to drive an HD DVD player into ordinary people's homes, something the Ps3 has afforded Sony since it launched.

 

[Chemo]

Priced for the mass market.

Fully spec'd (i.e., the format's features are all complete in every player).

Ready for primetime.

Yeah, and now the PS3 is at the same price that the main 360 SKU was at when it sold most of its millions of units. So I guess the PS3 is ready for prime time too, eh?

 

[Barnolde]

Are you honestly doubting the power Wal-Mart and other similar shops to alter the competitive landscape in the US, or are you just being trite?

A small allotment of cheap players is going to turn the tide that's been against HD DVD every single week for the entire year? I'll believe it when I see it.

And besides, this was the real stupid part of your post:

s there anything preventing a firmware change allowing PS3s to accept HD-DVDs? It'd be good to have an escape route for Sony.

I mean seriously, wtf?

 

[Eel O'Brian]

Is anyone else interested in the That's Entertaiment! boxed set besides me? I have it on DVD, but if it's significantly upgraded PQ-wise I might have to bite my lip and buy it again. Talk about a bunch of great movies!

Also, I hope the Die Hards get good transfers. I'm really looking forward to that set.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Actually, HD DVD outsold BD last year until Sony launched their Ps3.. The Ps3 changed the landscape, obviously, but we may very well be at another crossroads here. The Ps3 itself proved that you can take momentum and shove it out the door provided you can move enough units and get enough players into people's hands.

To assume that this won't have an impact because HD DVD has had the lower prices isn't taking into effect the Ps3 factor. It's not like we're comparing apples to apples here. You've got affordability on one side, but the Blu Ray team has the successor to the most successful console of all time playing its discs. That produced 2-1 sales results. Now, HD DVD hits mainstream prices, which NEITHER side had previously achieved. So don't pretend like we can use current trends to figure out what will happen. There were a lot of HD DVD folks who didn't think the Ps3 would have much of an impact, either. If nothing else, Toshiba has found a way to drive an HD DVD player into ordinary people's homes, something the Ps3 has afforded Sony since it launched.

Well said.

 

[VanMardigan]

A small allotment of cheap players is going to turn the tide that's been against HD DVD every single week for the entire year??

The low prices $199 and under will be in effect for the rest of the year, you don't think that will make a difference?

 

[dynamitejim]

Yet both were priced out of the mainstream. If HD-DVD stays at $199 and under for entry, and BD stays at $399, only one is priced for the mainstream.

Except both HD-DVD and Blu-ray rely on a technology (HDTV) that's not really mainstream itself yet. There's gonna be a ceiling on both formats for atleast another year or two.

 

[keiichi]

What about it confuses you?

Can't wrap my head around how a firmware fix will allow the ps3 to play hddvds

 

[OokieSpookie]

Is anyone else interested in the That's Entertaiment! boxed set besides me? I have it on DVD, but if it's significantly upgraded PQ-wise I might have to bite my lip and buy it again. Talk about a bunch of great movies!

Also, I hope the Die Hards get good transfers. I'm really looking forward to that set.

I am hoping someone on here picks it up so as to get a general idea how the transfer is, definitely on my radar.

 

[Walshicus]

And besides, this was the real stupid part of your post:

I mean seriously, wtf?

It was a genuine question; they both use the same laser from what I gather. And as someone quoted above me Amir from HD-DVD did indicate that it might be possible.

As much as I might prefer one format to the other I think it's better for everyone that there are... options available should either fail.



Also, isnt' that small allotment supposed to be in the region of 100,000 players? And aren't Wal-Mart supposed to be buying 2m units at $50 cost?

 

[avaya]

Why is Die Hard 4.0 being released in the US on November 20th? I already got my UK copy this week. Is it due to different distribution agreements? I see no Die Hard 3 listed for Europe.

 

[M3wThr33]

I see a lot of college chicks in the Wal-Mart near me, because it's so close to the university. They may very well be retarded by varying degrees, but they sure are hot.

And I think bargain hunters are probably already savvy to lower prices on Amazon, etc. No one has to spend $25-30 on a new release HD DVD or Blu Ray, if they know enough to shop around. I doubt the typical Wal-mart bunch even casts a glance at the HD DVD or Blu Ray rack as they pass.

People who shop at Wal-Mart don't know what the Internet is.

 

[Eel O'Brian]

Recently MS started offering HD transfers of the Looney Tunes catalog on Xbox Live. I watched and compared one in SD and HD, and while there wasn't a WOW factor difference, it was noticeably crisper and cleaner along the edges of the artwork. I wonder if in the near-future we'll be seeing those Golden Collections on HD DVD or Blu Ray, or at least a "best of" collection of some sort?

 

[chubigans]

Except both HD-DVD and Blu-ray rely on a technology (HDTV) that's not really mainstream itself yet. There's gonna be a ceiling on both formats for atleast another year or two.

Unfortunately true...there was an article the other day on how limited HDTV sales were (farily disappointing this year).

There is not a "mainstream" market for HD-DVD players under $200, because there's already a limited market of HDTV owners (who have to break a $1,000+ price barrier to enter).

It's growing fast by each year, but its still small enough to definitely not be considered "mainstream".

 

[rubso]

The low prices $199 and under will be in effect for the rest of the year, you don't think that will make a difference?

put him in your Ignore list, Van. you'll thank me later.

 

[dallow_bg]

Is anyone else interested in the That's Entertaiment! boxed set besides me? I have it on DVD, but if it's significantly upgraded PQ-wise I might have to bite my lip and buy it again. Talk about a bunch of great movies!

Also, I hope the Die Hards get good transfers. I'm really looking forward to that set.

I am actually very curious to see how those transfers turn out. Would love to see it.

 

[BocoDragon]

I realize this is.... potentially inflammatory... but I am genuinely curious:

why would anyone be a fanboy of HD-DVD?

Attracted to the "official DVD successor"? Really hate Sony? Transformers fan? Just picked an HD horse some time ago, and now you're sticking with it?

I see all sorts of reasons why people would just find themselves in the blu ray camp accidentally... PS3 fans and general owners who find themselves with a blu player. Technology buffs who just see more GB and get all horny. Movie fans who see that blu has more support and just want the remaining studios to give in...

I really am just curious.... no offense intended to anyone (and no need to explain "format neutral". I get that one. All the movies, rite?)

 

[OokieSpookie]

I realize this is.... potentially inflammatory... but I am genuinely curious:

why would anyone be a fanboy of HD-DVD?

Attracted to the "official DVD successor"? Really hate Sony? Transformers fan? Just picked an HD horse some time ago, and now you're sticking with it?

I see all sorts of reasons why people would just find themselves in the blu ray camp accidentally... PS3 fans and general owners who find themselves with a blu player. Technology buffs who just see more GB and get all horny. Movie fans who see that blu has more support and just want the remaining studios to give in...

I really am just curious.... no offense intended to anyone (and no need to explain "format neutral". I get that one. All the movies, rite?)

In the beginning honestly there was good reason to be.
Blu movies had some shitty transfers and encodes, poor choices all around and the HD of the same movies looked better.
Price is also a motivating factor which is understandable.
Alot of it also is Sony hate, many many on here and on the AVD and Highdef forums will all readily admit it.
For some it is also catalog choice.

 

[Snah]

Unfortunately true...there was an article the other day on how limited HDTV sales were (farily disappointing this year).

There is not a "mainstream" market for HD-DVD players under $200, because there's already a limited market of HDTV owners (who have to break a $1,000+ price barrier to enter).

It's growing fast by each year, but its still small enough to definitely not be considered "mainstream".

good point, and i was going to bring this one up myself.

even at 99 - 199, this is not a 'mainstream price'. there still exists that barrier to entry which is an HDTV set. Moreover, I think it will take a significant drop in prices between both HD players AND HDTVs to truly become mainstream.

I'm talking blu-ray/hd-dvd players priced around $50....which will also have to coincide with higher adoption of HDTVs

 

[Chemo]

I realize this is.... potentially inflammatory... but I am genuinely curious:

why would anyone be a fanboy of HD-DVD?

Attracted to the "official DVD successor"? Really hate Sony? Transformers fan? Just picked an HD horse some time ago, and now you're sticking with it?

I see all sorts of reasons why people would just find themselves in the blu ray camp accidentally... PS3 fans and general owners who find themselves with a blu player. Technology buffs who just see more GB and get all horny. Movie fans who see that blu has more support and just want the remaining studios to give in...

I really am just curious.... no offense intended to anyone (and no need to explain "format neutral". I get that one. All the movies, rite?)

"Really hate Sony" is the answer. And I think some of the people in this thread hate Sony because of console wars "transgressions" like dethroning Nintendo and killing the Dreamcast.

 

[chubigans]

In the beginning honestly there was good reason to be.
Blu movies had some shitty transfers and encodes, poor choices all around and the HD of the same movies looked better.
Price is also a motivating factor which is understandable.
Alot of it also is Sony hate, many many on here and on the AVD and Highdef forums will all readily admit it.
For some it is also catalog choice.

That's really it. I'm also in the "accidental Blu-Ray" camp with my PS3, but I own more than a dozen movies and I want the format to succeed. BD had an absolutely disastrous launch, and it got many early adopters to HD-DVD (with good reason, as the interactivity and such has been there from day 1).

Who would have thought we would end up with how the HD markets are today from that point last year.

 

[Snah]

"Really hate Sony" is the answer. And I think some of the people in this thread hate Sony because of console wars "transgressions" like dethroning Nintendo and killing the Dreamcast.

yeah it is pretty sad, to an extent. Some people are such hardcore Microsoft fans that they want the PS3 to die in all ways possible.

 

[Walshicus]

In the beginning honestly there was good reason to be.

And you say that as if there isn't good reason to be now?

Blu movies had some shitty transfers and encodes, poor choices all around and the HD of the same movies looked better.
Price is also a motivating factor which is understandable.
Alot of it also is Sony hate, many many on here and on the AVD and Highdef forums will all readily admit it.
For some it is also catalog choice.

A lot of people think HD-DVD's future is rosier; and many of the arguments for why have been presented. Sony hate is probably a healthy part of it [it's certainly a minor factor for me, though cost was far higher]. For many the catalogue is just better; I bought it for Galactica and Star Trek.

EDIT: Meh, I'm sure the immediate few posters above me believe in their choice. I doubt us bickering online will change the outcome of this though; certainly not one thousandth as much as price will.

 

[fse]

Maybe people like HDDVD cause it came out first...?

 

[thaivo]

Well gosh golly that makes it all different than doesn't it.

Well actually it does. These were people that were somewhat knowledgeable, and were swayed by the price. Seeing as the A2 appears to be available at significant discounts at a number of venues, it is making some difference.

 

[OokieSpookie]

That's really it. I'm also in the "accidental Blu-Ray" camp with my PS3, but I own more than a dozen movies and I want the format to succeed. BD had an absolutely disastrous launch, and it got many early adopters to HD-DVD (with good reason, as the interactivity and such has been there from day 1).

Who would have thought we would end up with how the HD markets are today from that point last year.

Yeah I was one of the people who planned the PS3 release months in advance and BluRay was a huge factor in it.
It pushed me to pick up an HDTV alot sooner than I had intended and found myself to be more into movies lately than gaming as a whole.

 

[gkryhewy]

yeah it is pretty sad, to an extent. Some people are such hardcore Microsoft fans that they want the PS3 to die in all ways possible.

 

[dallow_bg]

Guy on my other forum just picked up Cars from Best Buy.

 

[BocoDragon]

In the beginning honestly there was good reason to be.
Blu movies had some shitty transfers and encodes, poor choices all around and the HD of the same movies looked better.
Price is also a motivating factor which is understandable.
Alot of it also is Sony hate, many many on here and on the AVD and Highdef forums will all readily admit it.
For some it is also catalog choice.

thanks

I do remember when the formats were neck and neck not too long ago, so I can see how some would have picked "their horse" back then.

"Really hate Sony" is the answer. And I think some of the people in this thread hate Sony because of console wars "transgressions" like dethroning Nintendo and killing the Dreamcast.

I do know a lot of people (geeks and otherwise) who have a hate on for Sony.... and of course there was the pessimism around them because walkman, PSP, PS3 etc are not doing as well as they should... and things like the CD rootkit, PS2 DRE failures etc.

Sony generates very personal feelings.

EDIT: just so my biases are on the table: I want the best tech (ie most space). I want the format I got for free with a game system I bought for the purposes of games. I want the format that is selling the most... and I want it to have the most movies from the studios I care about. That's blu right now.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Just a note...
There is a rumor that people who ordered the A2 on Bestbuy.com for 99 whatever are having their order replaced with the A3 for the same price.
No real confirmation but something to look into.

 

[dallow_bg]

Just a note...
There is a rumor that people who ordered the A2 on Bestbuy.com for 99 whatever are having their order replaced with the A3 for the same price.
No real confirmation but something to look into.

A2 is superior if you use optical for sound.

 

[DoubleTap]

Just a note...
There is a rumor that people who ordered the A2 on Bestbuy.com for 99 whatever are having their order replaced with the A3 for the same price.
No real confirmation but something to look into.

Great if true. Last e-mail I received from them was that it would be backordered 1-2 weeks. I'll check again when I get home. Work doesn't allow web based e-mails. Or if someone else can confirm?

 

[OokieSpookie]

A2 is superior if you use optical for sound.

If I was going to go for a stand alone I would probably go with one of the AX models honestly.

 

[Snah]

:lol

 

[Snah]

thanks

I do remember when the formats were neck and neck not too long ago, so I can see how some would have picked "their horse" back then.



I do know a lot of people (geeks and otherwise) who have a hate on for Sony.... and of course there was the pessimism around them because walkman, PSP, PS3 etc are not doing as well as they should... and things like the CD rootkit, PS2 DRE failures etc.

Sony generates very personal feelings.

EDIT: just so my biases are on the table: I want the best tech (ie most space). I want the format I got for free with a game system I bought for the purposes of games. I want the format that is selling the most... and I want it to have the most movies from the studios I care about. That's blu right now.

oh, i absolutely 100% agree with you. to me, the choice was obvious. that's why i'm not backing hd-dvd.

but some people need the hd-dvd catalog...i'm just not one of those people. i can wait.

 

[dallow_bg]

If I was going to go for a stand alone I would probably go with one of the AX models honestly.

Well yeah, of course.

 

[Battlezone]

Dear Valued Best Buy Customer,
You are receiving this email because you recently ordered a Toshiba HD DVD Player (model # HD-A2) from www.bestbuy.com and your order was placed in a backorder status while we awaited additional inventory. Unfortunately, the manufacturer has discontinued this item and we are not anticipating receiving any more inventory.

Because we value your business, we will be fulfilling your order with the next generation Toshiba HD DVD Player (model # HD-A3) that is replacing the HD-A2 in Toshiba's lineup of HD DVD Players. There is no need for you to do anything to receive this upgraded model. We will simply fulfill your original order and your packing slip will be updated to show you received the HD-A3 and serve as your order receipt.

If you are not interested in receiving the Toshiba HD-A3 as a replacement for the discontinued HD-A2, you may return the unopened item to your nearest Best Buy store or simply contact one of our Customer Service Representatives at (888)-BestBuy for more information about how to return the product for a complete refund.

Please accept our apology for any inconvenience. We look forward to your next visit to Best Buy.

Sincerely,
Best Buy Customer Care

Okay, so what are the differences between the A2 and the A3?

 

[Arsenal]

So unless you can offer a tangible and compelling reason why Walmart would be willing to take such losses, which can account for thousands of dollars at each store, just so they can get traffic in a store that already is well known and gets tons of traffic anyway, I'm going to believe this is mostly a result of Toshiba. ESPECIALLY given the timing of the price cut, i.e. right during Spiderman/Ratatouille/40GB PS3 week.

Loose $10 on a player, make the profit on cables and TVs. Toss in some movies, replacement plans and god knows what else.

I have no idea what the margins are on any of these things, but Wal-Mart uses loss leaders just like everyone else does when they figure they can make it work to their advantage.

I do agree though that it was no mistake to have a $100 HD DVD player out at the same time the 40GB PS3s went on sale.

The big question for me remains though - is this $100 player a one-day stunt to clear out a small amount of inventory, or is it the start of a flood?

 

[LM4sure]

Hd-dvd player sales are going to skyrocket!! This is not looking good for the blu ray market. Someone better offer a cheap (less than $200) blu ray player FAST, or hd-dvd is going to gain all of the momentum going into the holiday season.

Anyway, I'm happy to see the prices on hd-dvd players dropping. The tide has turned!

 

[OokieSpookie]

Hd-dvd player sales are going to skyrocket!! This is not looking good for the blu ray market. Someone better offer a cheap (less than $200) blu ray player FAST, or hd-dvd is going to gain all of the momentum going into the holiday season.

Anyway, I'm happy to see the prices on hd-dvd players dropping. The tide has turned!

Didn't we hear this before Transformers?
I would ask if you want to bet...but we remember how that went.

 

[DoubleTap]

Okay, so what are the differences between the A2 and the A3?

Did you order through the regular BB site or BB Business?

Thanks,

 

[OokieSpookie]

Loose $10 on a player, make the profit on cables and TVs. Toss in some movies, replacement plans and god knows what else.

I have no idea what the margins are on any of these things, but Wal-Mart uses loss leaders just like everyone else does when they figure they can make it work to their advantage.

I do agree though that it was no mistake to have a $100 HD DVD player out at the same time the 40GB PS3s went on sale.

The big question for me remains though - is this $100 player a one-day stunt to clear out a small amount of inventory, or is it the start of a flood?

From what stores are saying the A2 is discontinued.
This is a clearance move no matter what people want to call it.
BUT the A3 will be moving to a $199 price point which is a good deal all around.

 

[Battlezone]

Did you order through the regular BB site or BB Business?

Thanks,

I ordered through the regular Best Buy site. It was showing up as backordered as of this morning. A quick search shows most of the stores in Seattle showing the A3 as being sold out, too.