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[VanMardigan]

It would have killed on blu-ray.

Yeah, so why don't you consider that when you think about how the Paramount move was good or bad for Toshiba? I mean, it took away BR sales as well as added HD DVD sales, no? And it's hilarious that you guys only want to mention Shrek and Transformers. Easily the biggest guns yeah, but we're getting Paramount movies beside that, whether they move the software charts or not, that we can enjoy on the format.

And while we were getting those movies anyway, those are lost sales for Blu.

Heck, even Paramount thought so, for them to rub those numbers up to 190k before being called out on it.

First week numbers are nice, but Transformers will continue to sell. It will easily pass 190k, and like I said, become the best selling HD DVD and top 3 HD disc for the year period. Consider the lost BR sales, Shrek 3, and the rest of the Paramount/Dreamworks catalog to be released for the next 18 months (including next summer's blockbusters) I'd say it was a good deal.

 

[Kintaro]

Is Shrek 3 even coming out on HD-DVD? All the TV ads for it just mention DVD. Why was it even brought up?

 

[captive]

Yeah, so why don't you consider that when you think about how the Paramount move was good or bad for Toshiba? I mean, it took away BR sales as well as added HD DVD sales, no? And it's hilarious that you guys only want to mention Shrek and Transformers. Easily the biggest guns yeah, but we're getting Paramount movies beside that, whether they move the software charts or not, that we can enjoy on the format.

And while we were getting those movies anyway, those are lost sales for Blu.

More money for us "blu boys" to spend on the wealth of exclusive titles coming out on blu-ray. Which cant entirely be said for that other format this christmas. As has been said many times just imagine if paramount hadnt gone exclusive, this christmas would be a slaughter.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Jesus, such an eruption over a minor point, which was: If Transformers didn't alter the landscape, the otehr Dreamworks releases sure aren't going to.

 

[VanMardigan]

Is Shrek 3 even coming out on HD-DVD? All the TV ads for it just mention DVD. Why was it even brought up?

Serious question?

Jesus, such an eruption over a minor point, which was: If Transformers didn't alter the landscape, the otehr Dreamworks releases sure aren't going to.

chubs thought Transformers didn't perform very well. I disagreed. You could've stayed out of it, you know.

 

[Kintaro]

Serious question?

I haven't really paid attention to it. I've seen a shit ton of commercials for Shrek 3, but all of which mention DVD only.

 

[chubigans]

Is Shrek 3 even coming out on HD-DVD? All the TV ads for it just mention DVD. Why was it even brought up?

They were supposed to do a whole separate ad-campaign for Shrek HD, but heck if I've seen them. Why they're not doing the dual tag at the end like so many other commercials, I have no idea.

 

[djkimothy]

Yeah, so why don't you consider that when you think about how the Paramount move was good or bad for Toshiba? I mean, it took away BR sales as well as added HD DVD sales, no? And it's hilarious that you guys only want to mention Shrek and Transformers. Easily the biggest guns yeah, but we're getting Paramount movies beside that, whether they move the software charts or not, that we can enjoy on the format.

And while we were getting those movies anyway, those are lost sales for Blu.

You're just proving that instead of moving towards a 1 format future, we're just postponing it.

The Paramount deal took thunder away from the BD format, but it hasn't killed it. Instead, it's just making the choice for consumers harder. Do you not want a 1 format future?

 

[VanMardigan]

They were supposed to do a whole separate ad-campaign for Shrek HD, but heck if I've seen them. Why they're not doing the dual tag at the end like so many other commercials, I have no idea.

That's a problem for both sides, though, isn't it? Plenty of movie advertisements don't list either one or just include the tiny logo at the bottom. They can do better than that, but it shows how niche this market still is.

The Paramount deal took thunder away from the BD format, but it hasn't killed it. Instead, it's just making the choice for consumers harder. Do you not want a 1 format future?

I sure do. But I can't decide that, and neither can you. So what's the point of bringing that up? And the BDA isn't exactly bending over backwards to get me a low cost player either.

Did you want Toshiba to make consumer's choice easier by dumping HD DVD? You sure did, didn't you? Too effing bad. Let Sony give in. Oh, you don't want that. They trojan horsed it into their console so now it's do or die for them too. If they hadn't done that, we'd be at one format already, so both stupid corporations are to blame.

 

[Kintaro]

That's a problem for both sides, though, isn't it? Plenty of movie advertisements don't list either one or just include the tiny logo at the bottom. They can do better than that, but it shows how niche this market still is.

Uh, most of the ads I see, if the movie is coming out on the HD format, it's listed with it. In fact, I've gotten used to it. I didn't see it with Shrek at all, hence, I asked the question.

 

[yacobod]

More money for us "blu boys" to spend on the wealth of exclusive titles coming out on blu-ray. Which cant entirely be said for that other format this christmas. As has been said many times just imagine if paramount hadnt gone exclusive, this christmas would be a slaughter.

i've brought this up once before but after Ratatouille today, what exclusive is better than Bourne Ultimatum?

BU slaughters any blu exclusive imo, best movie of the summer

Pirates will sell better no doubt, but it was a pretty weak ass finale to the series

 

[VanMardigan]

By the way, did the Blockbusters exclusivity end, or did they just make an exception for Transformers? The HD DVD version was at Blockbusters, so that was very surprising to me. I asked, and that's the only HD DVD they had. Did the BB agreement have as many holes as the Paramount/Spielberg one? :lol

 

[djkimothy]

That's a problem for both sides, though, isn't it? Plenty of movie advertisements don't list either one or just include the tiny logo at the bottom. They can do better than that, but it shows how niche this market still is.



I sure do. But I can't decide that, and neither can you. So what's the point of bringing that up? And the BDA isn't exactly bending over backwards to get me a low cost player either.

With regards to the ads, Disney has gon all out and made commercials advertising ONLY the blu-ray version of Cars. No DVD, but promoting the advantages of high de blu-ray.

A 1 format future can easily be decided by the studios. But instead they're intent on dragging this out.

The BDA has lowered its prices on players. You're just looking for an excuse for it to be expensive. You can get a $400 PS3 now!

 

[chubigans]

The BDA has lowered its prices on players. You're just looking for an excuse for it to be expensive. You can get a $400 PS3 now!

Uh...you really don't want to go there with Van. Trust me.

 

[mollipen]

i've brought this up once before but after Ratatouille today, what exclusive is better than Bourne Ultimatum?

As we talking about brand new day & date stuff, or just upcoming Blu-ray exclusives in general? Also, when you say "better," do you mean what could do better sales wise, or simply movie quality wise? (Which, of course, is all subjective.)

 

[VanMardigan]

With regards to the ads, Disney has gon all out and made commercials advertising ONLY the blu-ray version of Cars. No DVD, but promoting the advantages of high de blu-ray.

A 1 format future can easily be decided by the studios. But instead they're intent on dragging this out.

The BDA has lowered its prices on players. You're just looking for an excuse for it to be expensive. You can get a $400 PS3 now!

There are two separate Shrek 3 commercials that are about the HD DVD version only, as well. They were posted in this thread a ton of times. Not surprised kintaro missed them, but oh well.

$400 is not "bending over backwards" to get me a low cost player. Sorry. And you're being a damn jerk by making that statement anyway, considering what I'm going through.

Also, if you're blaming the studios, why ask me if I want a one format future? I don't blame them, by the way, this is obviously greed on the part of Toshiba/Sony, which is ironic, cause they're both losing a ton of money whereas they could've gone with one format and shared all the costs. Idiot companies, but I want HD content.

 

[djkimothy]

Uh...you really don't want to go there with Van. Trust me.

OK, well then my other reply would be... "Cause BD companies want to make money."

$400 is not "bending over backwards" to get me a low cost player. Sorry

So how much money is Toshiba making off each player sold? :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

So how much money is Toshiba making off each player sold? :lol

What the hell does that matter to me? You getting a cut of Ps3 sales?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

That's a problem for both sides, though, isn't it? Plenty of movie advertisements don't list either one or just include the tiny logo at the bottom. They can do better than that, but it shows how niche this market still is.



I sure do. But I can't decide that, and neither can you. So what's the point of bringing that up? And the BDA isn't exactly bending over backwards to get me a low cost player either.

Did you want Toshiba to make consumer's choice easier by dumping HD DVD? You sure did, didn't you? Too effing bad. Let Sony give in. Oh, you don't want that. They trojan horsed it into their console so now it's do or die for them too. If they hadn't done that, we'd be at one format already, so both stupid corporations are to blame.

I'd be ecstatic if SOny gave in. Especially since that's the only way I see Fox or Disney going HD-DVD, not to mention Sony themselves.

In regard to your last comment to me, take chubs initial comment re: Transformers in context. It's not as offensive as you make it out to be, in fact, not offensive at all.

 

[captive]

i've brought this up once before but after Ratatouille today, what exclusive is better than Bourne Ultimatum?

BU slaughters any blu exclusive imo, best movie of the summer

Pirates will sell better no doubt, but it was a pretty weak ass finale to the series

Im sure your talking personal preference, but the rest of us are talking sales. So,
Pirates, All 3 die hards + die hard 4, Close encounters of the third kind, Ratatouille, Cars, all three Spidermans, The Simpsons, Superbad. And thats what im buying + prison break.

*Bold = all top ten grossing films this year.

Vs Transformers, Shrek and Bourne.
Have you seen that .pdf i hosted of the releases broken down? Its so slanted in favor of blu-ray, its not even fair with paramount releasing on HD DVD only.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

With regards to the ads, Disney has gon all out and made commercials advertising ONLY the blu-ray version of Cars.

The Blu-Ray is the one being released this week... what else would they be advertising?

The BDA has lowered its prices on players. You're just looking for an excuse for it to be expensive. You can get a $400 PS3 now!

:lol They're the ones holding player prices at least $200 too high at this point. There is no excuse for the standalone players to still be $400. None.

 

[Falch]

I know this has been asked a thousand times already, but what online stores offer the best prices for importing blu-ray movies to Europe? Prices here are still ridiculous, and the cheap dollar is making it even more worth it to just import from the states. I've seen this region code list which is very useful. Is that the entire library of available blu-ray titles so far?

Btw, any word on big guns like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars Trilogies and Jurassic Park movies (or other Spielberg movies for that matter) coming to blu-ray?

 

[Kintaro]

There are two separate Shrek 3 commercials that are about the HD DVD version only, as well. They were posted in this thread a ton of times. Not surprised kintaro missed them, but oh well.

I've been watching movies. Sorry. :lol

I haven't seen either of the commercials on TV either, besides the DVD one. Oh well. w/e, can't buy it anyways.

 

[captive]

The Blu-Ray is the one being released this week... what else would they be advertising?



:lol They're the ones holding player prices at least $200 too high at this point. There is no excuse for the standalone players to still be $400. None.

Why do so many people not understand this. One of the major points of these next gen formats was a new cash cow for the CE companies. So why is it in samsun or Sony or any other one of the many CE companies on blu-ray side to subsidize players instead of making profits on them? Theres a reason HD DVD only has one brand of stand alone players. Think about it.

 

[djkimothy]

What the hell does that matter to me? You getting a cut of Ps3 sales?

I'm saying, are the "low prices" a sustainable strategy for companies that produce the players? Oh yah, there's only 2 in the market.

 

[Kolgar]

Is Shrek 3 even coming out on HD-DVD? All the TV ads for it just mention DVD. Why was it even brought up?

Yes, there's a entire HD DVD television campaign on the way, with two separate spots focusing on two different movie characters (Cookie and Donkey).

(Also, if you're watching the screen instead of just listening, I think they zoom the HD DVD logo onto the screen below the DVD logo at the end of the spot.)

On a separate note, I see this thread has veered into the shitter once again.

edit: Here's a bunch of links. Thanks to Kosty at AVS.

1. This new Sports and Transformers Toshiba Campaign
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/new-hd-d...m-toshiba/4890
http://www.tacp.com/hddvd/ better pop up version of the spot

2. "I love HD DVD -Movie Machine" with Michael Imperioli (Toshiba & HD DVD PRG)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB3KA2GVgis

3. Shrek HD DVD spots (Paramount)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuJDgxIpR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYxYxn3iTA

4. HD DVD Football team with Marty Schottenheimer (Universal HD DVD PRG)
http://www.hddvdnbc.com/

5. Wal-Mart has value - featuring Toshiba HD DVD player as perfect gift for Christmas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcfpJDcmq5M

 

[Kintaro]

:lol They're the ones holding player prices at least $200 too high at this point. There is no excuse for the standalone players to still be $400. None.

Uh, I would wager that this has more to do with trying to make a profit on the BR players instead of making it out to look like a fire sale.

 

[djkimothy]

The Blu-Ray is the one being released this week... what else would they be advertising?



:lol They're the ones holding player prices at least $200 too high at this point. There is no excuse for the standalone players to still be $400. None.

The DVD version since that is what the mainstream consumers have?

And again, I reiterate. BD CE companies don't want to take a huge hit in margins just to "push" a format. They do want to make money.

 

[Kintaro]

Yes, there's a entire HD DVD television campaign on the way, with two separate spots focusing on two different movie characters (Cookie and Donkey).

Sounds good. It's still weird that they wouldn't mention the HD-DVD at all in the DVD version commercial. Not even a mention of "also on HD-DVD!"

 

[VanMardigan]

I'm saying, are the "low prices" a sustainable strategy for companies that produce the players? Oh yah, there's only 2 in the market.

There's plenty of room for high end players, same as with dvd. Samsung will likely jump in there soon, and probably LG as well. And I don't mean with dual format players. No way to know if that's viable until they try. In the same vein, there seems to be a huge gaping hole for a 1080i Blu Ray player at $199-$249. Considering I lost $400 trying to get a Ps3, that's something I'd jump on. Provided, of course, that it's profile 1.1 or whatever it is I need to get the equivalent functionality to HD DVD's HDi and web enabled features.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Yes, there's a entire HD DVD television campaign on the way, with two separate spots focusing on two different movie characters (Cookie and Donkey).

I'll hunt for links to the commercials and edit them into this post later if I find them.

On a separate note, I see this thread has veered into the shitter once again.

We need to get it up to 20,000 posts, and civil talk only goes so fast.

 

[yacobod]

As we talking about brand new day & date stuff, or just upcoming Blu-ray exclusives in general? Also, when you say "better," do you mean what could do better sales wise, or simply movie quality wise? (Which, of course, is all subjective.)

im speakin from personal preference, as to what i'm looking forward to most for the end of the year, but in my same post i did mention that pirates would sell better, so w/e

i don't really care i have both formats and will have the best of both worlds

here is the top 10 box office for the year

1 Spider-Man 3
2 Shrek the Third
3 Transformers
4 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
5 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
6 The Bourne Ultimatum
7 300
8 Ratatouille
9 The Simpsons Movie
10 Wild Hogs

so out of the top 10 we have, 5 blu ray exclusives, 3 hd dvd exclusives, and 2 format neutrals

man i cant believe a POS like Wild Hogs is at number 10, who actually saw that

 

[Cosmic Bus]

Considering I lost $400 trying to get a Ps3, that's something I'd jump on.

Have you made any efforts to get your money back?

 

[maharg]

Why do so many people not understand this. One of the major points of these next gen formats was a new cash cow for the CE companies. So why is it in samsun or Sony or any other one of the many CE companies on blu-ray side to subsidize players instead of making profits on them? Theres a reason HD DVD only has one brand of stand alone players. Think about it.

I love when people bring up points like this as if they're good for the consumer. Yay they get a new excuse to overcharge! Frankly, HD-DVD at this point is making the strategy of using it as a cash cow untenable, and that's a good thing imo even if it eventually fails.

 

[Raistlin]

:lol They're the ones holding player prices at least $200 too high at this point. There is no excuse for the standalone players to still be $400. None.

Actually there is. At this point in DVD's life ... BD is probably cheaper. Get a little context.


HD-DVD is just absurdly cheap, and has no real historical precedent. It’s a pretty big gamble Toshiba is taking, as they are now basically going it alone with HW. Their price cutting has scared the CE’s away, so they are pretty much proprietary (a much delayed Onkyo unit is supposedly coming at some point – though it hasn’t been confirmed whether it’s a new design, or a Tosh rebadge iirc).

The biggest difference between this and DVD however (and basically every other non-gaming format/CE device historically), is that Tosh is ‘dumping’ HW. There is not precedent I’m aware of to use the razor/razorblade model on a CE device.

 

[djkimothy]

There's plenty of room for high end players, same as with dvd. Samsung will likely jump in there soon, and probably LG as well. And I don't mean with dual format players. No way to know if that's viable until they try. In the same vein, there seems to be a huge gaping hole for a 1080i Blu Ray player at $199-$249. Considering I lost $400 trying to get a Ps3, that's something I'd jump on. Provided, of course, that it's profile 1.1 or whatever it is I need to get the equivalent functionality to HD DVD's HDi and web enabled features.

The philosophy of the BD CE companies seem to follow the mantra that all players should be 1080p capable. So I'm not sure if there will ever be a low cost 1080i player.

And if you're willing to spend $400 on a PS3, you can get one at retail. Unless you want BC.

 

[Kolgar]

Albeit nearly $200.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5723662

Still, looks like Tosh squirreled some of these babies away for more Wal-mart action this holiday.

Also, I updated my post with links to the HD DVD television commercials, Shrek and otherwise:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8507807&postcount=19326

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I love when people bring up points like this as if they're good for the consumer. Yay they get a new excuse to overcharge! Frankly, HD-DVD at this point is making the strategy of using it as a cash cow untenable, and that's a good thing imo even if it eventually fails.

Not if it means we don't get some sort of HD media.

For a healthy market, seller and buyer both get something out of the deal. Right now, Toshiba (and to a lesser extent, Sony) is banking on the future royalties to offset losses. That does nothing for the other hardware manufacturers, which is why they isn't much outside of Toshiba on the player front.

 

[Kintaro]

Also, I updated my post with links to the HD DVD television commercials, Shrek and otherwise:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8507807&postcount=19326

Not bad. Not great, but not bad either.

 

[yacobod]

Im sure your talking personal preference, but the rest of us are talking sales. So,
Pirates, All 3 die hards + die hard 4, Close encounters of the third kind, Ratatouille, Cars, all three Spidermans, The Simpsons, Superbad. And thats what im buying + prison break.

*Bold = all top ten grossing films this year.

Vs Transformers, Shrek and Bourne.
Have you seen that .pdf i hosted of the releases broken down? Its so slanted in favor of blu-ray, its not even fair with paramount releasing on HD DVD only.

fixed to reflect the truth

but i agree that bluray should dominate sales in Q4, the last 2 hd dvds i've bought were Heroes, Transformers, and i have a preorder on Bourne Ultimatum

since then i've bought FF4:ROTSS, 2001, Spiderman box, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Ratatouille all on blu ray, and have Blade Runner on preorder for blu

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Actually there is. At this point in DVD's life ... BD is probably cheaper. Get a little context.

It's about the same (but inflation makes you correct, technically). BD is following a pretty well-established path. HD-DVD is trailblazing. I just don't think they can make it without more studio support.

 

[maharg]

Not if it means we don't get some sort of HD media.

For a healthy market, seller and buyer both get something out of the deal. Right now, Toshiba (and to a lesser extent, Sony) is banking on the future royalties to offset losses. That does nothing for the other hardware manufacturers, which is why they isn't much outside of Toshiba on the player front.

I'm sorry, but there's no way the entire market will die at this point. Worst case scenario it maintains VideoDisc-style niche. It would take a catastrophic event to destroy both formats completely.

 

[yacobod]

and i finally got around to watching 2001 and Bram Stoker's Dracula on blu last night

quick impressions

2001 is aces, really nice disc overall

Dracula is pretty disappointing tho, the reviews were pretty accurate, the PQ leaves a lot to be desired, but i wanted to the movie, so oh well

looking forward to watching Rat tonite

 

[Raistlin]

There's plenty of room for high end players, same as with dvd.

The problem is the Toshiba’s prices are actually screwing up the usual R&D model used by many CE companies.

Typically, a company brings out a high-end player with the expectation they will trickle-down technology into lower-end players later. Even with the larger margins high-end units receive, they usually do not generate enough cash to justify birthing said model as an ‘only child’. Since the low-end market is non-existent from a CE company point-of-view, it’s hard for them to justify jumping in at this point.

More troubling however, is the effect this could have on long-term tech. As stated, the above model tends to lead to advances in player quality/features/etc. Can we really expect Toshiba to spend even more cash on R&Ding advances if they have little expectation of making the cash back? The Gen 3 models show that they are simply in a ‘reduce costs’ mode.

Another way tech stagnation occurs is simply due to a lack of competition. So basically, there is a double whammy at work here.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm sorry, but there's no way the entire market will die at this point. Worst case scenario it maintains VideoDisc-style niche. It would take a catastrophic event to destroy both formats completely.

Then modify my original comment to say that it's not a good idea if it causes the market to remain this much of a niche.

 

[VanMardigan]

We need to get it up to 20,000 posts, and civil talk only goes so fast.

This IS civil. Totally timid compared to some other debates here.

Have you made any efforts to get your money back?

Yes, the user has until Thursday to respond, and I know he won't, so Paypal will rule in my favor then. No idea what that means in terms of what I will be getting back, and I'm sure it'll take some time to reimburse me if that's the route they take, which I'm pretty sure is what they'll do. Or at least what I'm hoping they'll do.

There is not precedent I’m aware of to use the razor/razorblade model on a CE device.

But what CE company outside of Toshiba has razors to sell? Sony, and they're using that model as best they can on the Ps3s they sell below cost.

And if you're willing to spend $400 on a PS3, you can get one at retail. Unless you want BC.

I do. It seems like the 60GB Ps3's are going for about $400 on Ebay anyway, so I'll try again if Paypal gives me all my money back.

Right now, Toshiba (and to a lesser extent, Sony) is banking on the future royalties to offset losses.

How is Sony doing it to a lesser extent? What are they making a profit on that's Blu Ray related? The movie royalties, same as Toshiba. Even on that front, they have to subsidize yields, so they may not be coming out even there either. I don't see how Tosh is sacrificing more.

 

[djkimothy]

I do. It seems like the 60GB Ps3's are going for about $400 on Ebay anyway, so I'll try again if Paypal gives me all my money back.
.

Pursue any avenues you can man. $400 is something worth fighting for.

 

[Raistlin]

But what CE company outside of Toshiba has razors to sell? Sony, and they're using that model as best they can on the Ps3s they sell below cost.

That is a different situation, since the PS3 is a gaming console (ie. it is meant to be proprietary). Yes it does play BD movies, but the PS3 will not clash with the BD low-end players long-term since they will fall in price at a faster rate.


What makes Toshiba's situation fucked up is that its meant to be a media format with CE support. However, they are basically killing off support from them.

 

[OokieSpookie]

wouldnt u guys say that shrek this holiday on HD DVD will have a bigger impact than any of the disney stuff?

:lol No?

Shrek 3 was horrid even to alot of Shrek fans

 

[yacobod]

:lol No?

Shrek 3 was horrid even to alot of Shrek fans

it was the summer of horrible 3rd movies

look at the top 4 domestic box office and you will find
1. spiderman 3
2. shrek the third
4. pirates 3

but its still suprising that shrek grossed 300+ million