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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Onix said:
What makes Toshiba's situation fucked up is that its meant to be a media format with CE support. However, they are basically killing off support from them.
Click to expand...

Where was the CE support last year when HD DVD launched and the player prices were high also? Again, Samsung and LG will be making dual format machines, and I expect both to have HD DVD only players as well. We're not the only ones realizing that this war isn't going to end.

it was the summer of horrible 3rd movies

look at the top 4 domestic box office and you will find
1. spiderman 3
2. shrek the third
4. pirates 3

but its still suprising that shrek grossed 300+ million
Click to expand...

PoTC was the "best" of that bunch. Spiderman and Shrek were about equally terrible, considering how much I liked their predecessors. I had high hopes for all three. This was supposed to be the best summer movie season ever. :(
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
maharg said:
I love when people bring up points like this as if they're good for the consumer. Yay they get a new excuse to overcharge! Frankly, HD-DVD at this point is making the strategy of using it as a cash cow untenable, and that's a good thing imo even if it eventually fails.
Click to expand...
What the hell do i give a shit about the consumer? I already have my player and the price of said player has done nothing except for come down since i bought it. Format adoption is slow, its not a sprint. What do you think would happen if somehow everyone went HD DVD, well HD DVD players are already sub 200 and 98 on crazy ass fire sales. So its still going to be Toshiba by themselves. The other CEs would probably cut their losses and either start looking at a new format, or digital distribution hardware or cut their losses all together and focus on their TV departments among other electronics. They arent going to subsidize players so movie studios can have their profits on movies once again. Except possibly Sony since they own such a huge catalog, but i dont think anyone here is crazy enough to think they will be HD DVD.
And lastly as others have mentioned why would the blu-ray CE companies submarine their prices when the format they are backing is winning anyway?

yacobod said:
fixed to reflect the truth

but i agree that bluray should dominate sales in Q4, the last 2 hd dvds i've bought were Heroes, Transformers, and i have a preorder on Bourne Ultimatum

since then i've bought FF4:ROTSS, 2001, Spiderman box, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Ratatouille all on blu ray, and have Blade Runner on preorder for blu
Click to expand...
Yea my bad i got bold happy and bolded Superbad, but im still buying it anyway. And thats what i mean if Warner wasnt releasing anything at all on either format HD DVD would have very few releases this christmas season.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Cue the Elmo "one of these things, is not like the other things" song. :lol

So is the exclusivity over?

Transformers1.jpg
 
C

Cosmic Bus

pristine morning snow
Trevelyan said:
Ughh, I wish Hi-def digest would review OldBoy already. I'd like to pick it up at work during lunch, but I wanna know if the transfer is good enough to warrant it. blarg.
Click to expand...

Far from a definitive review, but there's one up at DVD Beaver:

The wild swings from adeptly contrasted and detailed visuals to an intensely grainy appearance with intentional blurriness are all exemplified by the blu-ray MPEG 4 AVC compression. Everything tends to look more so - colors are brighter, detail is superior but not extravagantly so and the grainy sequences look like they have been projected on a thick carpet (it reminded me of Eyes Wide Shut on hi-def in that regard). I can't be positive, but I did note what seemed to be a flaw when the titles credits were shown - there was a bluish sheen infiltrating the image on the right hand side of the screen. This doesn't appear again throughout the film. Again, it may have been intentional and not picked up fully on SD. Digital noise is far less on the BRD than the SD(s) and although noticeable at times is unusual if not distracting upon the narrative. Overall, the image has some consistently strong moments but never reproduces the 3D depth that we come to associate with exceptional high-definition.
Click to expand...
 
O

OokieSpookie

Banned
yacobod said:
it was the summer of horrible 3rd movies

look at the top 4 domestic box office and you will find
1. spiderman 3
2. shrek the third
4. pirates 3

but its still suprising that shrek grossed 300+ million
Click to expand...

:lol I have to be the only person that loved Pirates 3
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
VanMardigan said:
How is Sony doing it to a lesser extent? What are they making a profit on that's Blu Ray related? The movie royalties, same as Toshiba. Even on that front, they have to subsidize yields, so they may not be coming out even there either. I don't see how Tosh is sacrificing more.
Click to expand...

You missed my point, which is that other BluRay player manufacturers *aren't* doing that, they're selling to make profits outright. But as long as you want to split hairs over the "lesser extent" comment, that'd be
1) The other Sony players not sold at a loss
2) The subsidation of the PS3 from other revenue sources, ie, games.
3) The unwillingness (apparently) of Sony to go as far as Toshiba with the hardware markdown at retail
4) The big one-- The unwillingness (apparently) of Sony to go as far as Toshiba with the Paramount buyout. Not saying they aren't moneyhatting, but they got outbid.

So yeah, to a lesser extent.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
My Blockbuster has 7 shelf cases for Blu-Ray and only half a case for HDDVD.


Anyway, just got Ratatouille and Cars....and OMG...these two movies absolutely crush everything else in terms of PQ.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
You missed my point, which is that other BluRay player manufacturers *aren't* doing that, they're selling to make profits outright. But as long as you want to split hairs over the "lesser extent" comment, that'd be
1) The other Sony players not sold at a loss
2) The subsidation of the PS3 from other revenue sources, ie, games.
3) The unwillingness (apparently) of Sony to go as far as Toshiba with the hardware markdown at retail
4) The big one-- The unwillingness (apparently) of Sony to go as far as Toshiba with the Paramount buyout. Not saying they aren't moneyhatting, but they got outbid.

So yeah, to a lesser extent.
Click to expand...

Good points, I'd say:

1. They don't want to piss off the other CE companies, perhaps.
2. The ONLY reason it sells for as much as it does is Blu Ray. Look at their financials, games aren't pulling that unit anywhere near profitability.
3. I'd say that's more a function of actual hardware costs vs. HD DVD and point 1 above.
4. Both have two exclusive studios on their side (now counting Sony's own studio Sony/MGM/Columbia). Also, WB would be HD DVD exclusive by now if only Toshiba were throwing cash at them, no? They were already HD DVD exclusive before and have de facto exclusives on that format.


Also, disc subsidization and replication expenses (virtually non-existent on the HD DVD side) are only going to rise in costs as BD sells more discs. Both companies have spilled more on this than they'd like, which is why I feel they would've been better off joining forces and saving us all the hassle.
 
D

djkimothy

Member
VanMardigan said:
Cue the Elmo "one of these things, is not like the other things" song. :lol

So is the exclusivity over?
Click to expand...

The agreement IIRC was that the original stores that piloted the rental of High def movies would continue renting out HDDVDs while the other 2000 stores Blu-ray only. Can someone confirm? It would be odd if that was the only HDDVD availble to rent. Again, supply and demand.

Anyways, sucks that Shrek 3 was that bad. But TBH, I hated Shrek 1 and didn't like Shrek 2 so I doubt I'd like the third.
 
O

OokieSpookie

Banned
djkimothy said:
The agreement IIRC was that the original stores that piloted the rental of High def movies would continue renting out HDDVDs while the other 2000 stores Blu-ray only. Can someone confirm? It would be odd if that was the only HDDVD availble to rent. Again, supply and demand.

Anyways, sucks that Shrek 3 was that bad. But TBH, I hated Shrek 1 and didn't like Shrek 2 so I doubt I'd like the third.
Click to expand...

Shrek to me was like the Scary Movie or Not another teen movie of cg films.
The first one was neat but then you pretty much got the joke.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
djkimothy said:
The agreement IIRC was that the original stores that piloted the rental of High def movies would continue renting out HDDVDs while the other 2000 stores Blu-ray only. Can someone confirm? It would be odd if that was the only HDDVD availble to rent. Again, supply and demand.
Click to expand...

That is the agreement as I understand it as well. My BB was NOT a pilot store, however, which is why I ask.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
VanMardigan said:
Good points, I'd say:

1. They don't want to piss off the other CE companies, perhaps.
2. The ONLY reason it sells for as much as it does is Blu Ray. Look at their financials, games aren't pulling that unit anywhere near profitability.
3. I'd say that's more a function of actual hardware costs vs. HD DVD and point 1 above.
4. Both have two exclusive studios on their side (now counting Sony's own studio Sony/MGM/Columbia). Also, WB would be HD DVD exclusive by now if only Toshiba were throwing cash at them, no? They were already HD DVD exclusive before and have de facto exclusives on that format.


Also, disc subsidization and replication expenses (virtually non-existent on the HD DVD side) are only going to rise in costs as BD sells more discs. Both companies have spilled more on this than they'd like, which is why I feel they would've been better off joining forces and saving us all the hassle.
Click to expand...

Well, I agree with that last point, 100%. I don't really feel the need to get into the others, becuase as I said, that wasn't my point. #1 just reinforces it.

I don't think disc subsidation amounts to a hill of beans, btw. The early news about low yields was followed with some moderate progress, and I assume it follows a pattern similar to chip manufacture, where early yields are low but they improve quickly. Justy more FUD for the mill, that one.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
VanMardigan said:
Where was the CE support last year when HD DVD launched and the player prices were high also?
Click to expand...

Obviously at launch, there isn't some sort of CE parade. They'd like at least get some feedback of how/if the format is selling. Instead what you see, if anything, are rebadges from the original HW producer ... and that actually did happen (RCA, can't recall if anyone else did this?).

However, by the time HD DVD started selling some decent HW numbers, Toshiba had already begun cutting prices. What happened then? Even the rebadges dried up. They just couldn't compete.

Again, Samsung and LG will be making dual format machines, and I expect both to have HD DVD only players as well. We're not the only ones realizing that this war isn't going to end.
Click to expand...

I don’t think they can cost-effectively leverage from their universals though. They aren’t using rebadged parts for them … it is of their own design. How can they compete at the low end using that tech? No one is offering them a discount (assuming Toshiba ever will subsidize rebadges)

While it’s possible they may bring out an HD DVD only, it will probably be more financially logical to continue with the combo’s … since the HD DVD-only players they would make wouldn’t be all that much cheaper.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Y'know, we Blu Guys don't have anybody posting links to every bit of PR that comes down the pipe. I just read on www.engadgethd.com that Spider-Man is the best-selling BluRay title to date. EngadgetHD suggests that the numbers may not be too hot, since Sony didn't announce them and since Transformers apparently blew away Spider-Man in DVD sales.

Without any concrete numbers, I'm reserving judgement. Many variables at play, including two SKUs for SM3. SOunds like it won the week though, although that's hardly news.
 
Y

YYZ

Junior Member
I just checked the giant HMV in Toronto today and Oldboy isn't even in their system. I will have to order this from Amazon, hopefully it's not sold out. I think it's because of the distributor. Actually I should ask again because I didn't tell them it was one word (I thought it was two words myself).
 
O

Oni Jazar

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
Y'know, we Blu Guys don't have anybody posting links to every bit of PR that comes down the pipe. I just read on www.engadgethd.com that Spider-Man is the best-selling BluRay title to date. EngadgetHD suggests that the numbers may not be too hot, since Sony didn't announce them and since Transformers apparently blew away Spider-Man in DVD sales.

Without any concrete numbers, I'm reserving judgement. Many variables at play, including two SKUs for SM3. SOunds like it won the week though, although that's hardly news.
Click to expand...

I believe that Engadget's title is incorrect. Sony said that Spiderman 3 was their best selling Blu-ray title, not that it is the top selling BD title. It sounds like WB's 300 may still hold that spot.
 
B

Big-E

Member
Oni Jazar said:
I believe that Engadget's title is incorrect. Sony said that Spiderman 3 was their best selling Blu-ray title, not that it is the top selling BD title. It sounds like WB's 300 may still hold that spot.
Click to expand...

That would mean that it sold more than Casino Royale though right?
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
So is chubs going to be "underwhelmed" with Spiderman 3 now? It's still EASILY going to take the week, just like Transformers did, and likely have legs as well, though I think PoTC 3 will likely do better, judging by how well the first two did on BR.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Ah, that explains the somewhat downbeat tone of the article. I was wondering how being the best-selling BD could be a bad thing.

Still, outselling Casino Royale is not shabby. Kinda underperforming its box-office, but then again, word-of-mouth was pretty bad.

I just ordered mine today, along with the Pixar discs.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Van, get off chubs dick. It's clear what he was getting at in context of the post *and* the overall format war.

You're defensive as hell about Transformers. Nobody said it did badly, just that it wasn't a world-changer and that it wold have sold a ton more on BluRay, most likely.
 
J

jjasper

Member
I really think the only way Spiderman 3 could outsell Transformers is if Sony counts the number of copies sold + the number of Spiderman packs (and maybe the PS3 bundle too)
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I assume they would add the two SKUs-- SM3 and SM Trilogy. I think adding the PS3 SKU is disingenous, since there's going to be more buyers of that who aren't interested in SM at all.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
Van, get off chubs dick. It's clear what he was getting at in context of the post *and* the overall format war.

You're defensive as hell about Transformers. Nobody said it did badly, just that it wasn't a world-changer and that it wold have sold a ton more on BluRay, most likely.
Click to expand...

Why don't YOU "get off my dick"? What's it to you? He posted a Digital Bits piece surmising that Spiderman 3 would outdo Transfomers, went on to make fun of the 190k number, then posted that Transformers didn't do as well as he expected.

Now it seems neither did SM3. Plus, you complain more than chubs does, so you're far too defensive as well on a subject you have no business in anyway but keep butting in and then complaining about it.

If we're going to make broad statements about how Toshiba wasted their money (as has been done by a few folks) then realize that MAYBE 1 or 2 titles will outsell it this year, EVEN THOUGH Blu has a huge edge in players, I think that's significant. And I think Toshiba made a wise investment. It's their 150 million, after all. I'd be pissed if a movie I was supposed to be getting got yanked.
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
VanMardigan said:
Cue the Elmo "one of these things, is not like the other things" song. :lol

So is the exclusivity over?

Transformers1.jpg
Click to expand...
Maybe you didn't read the original info on the Blockbuster deal.

All stores at that time that carried HD-DVD and BD would continue to carry HD-DVD and BD.

New stores would become BD-only as they came about.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
dallow_bg said:
Maybe you didn't read the original info on the Blockbuster deal.

All stores at that time that carried HD-DVD and BD would continue to carry HD-DVD and BD.

New stores would become BD-only as they came about.
Click to expand...

And if you read anything past that post, you'd realize that I already pointed out (repeatedly) that my store was not one of those pilot stores that carried both formats.

Van:

Read your tag
Know your tag
Live your tag
Click to expand...

So why talk about getting on people's dicks? Seriously, you have no problems with everyone who sounded off about Transformers not doing as well as they expected, but when YOU post a story that seems to suggest Spiderman 3 did even worse, it's taboo for me to make that connection?
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
VanMardigan said:
And if you read anything past that post, you'd realize that I already pointed out (repeatedly) that my store was not one of those pilot stores that carried both formats.
Click to expand...
That's what I get for not reading further.

Are you sure it wasn't?

There were 3 pilot stores here in Dallas/Fort Forth. A pretty big area.
I've yet to see any NEW stores get HD movies.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
It's that you were overreacting to him in the first place. It was a side comment after somebody suggested that the Dreamworks titles would out-do Disney on the HD platforms, which does not seem very likely. And then the second you get an opening, you bring the argument up again.

If you really want to go there, consider that Spider-Man 3 will likely outsell Transformers on an HD platform *despite* being outsold 3:1 on the neutral battlefield of DVD, and you can see why studios would want to go Blu. I'm sure Warner will notice that.

Otherwise, you can crow about SM3 (presumably) not selling up to expectations. Don't be so upset when people talk down Transformers, then. Can't have it both ways.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Without getting personal, let me respond to that:
1. Why would you assume that SM3 will outsell Transformers despite an (apparently) slower first week and the bad "word of mouth" you mentioned earlier?
2. You got the argument backwards. Somebody ELSE crowed about Transformers not selling up to expectations, I made a connection with a movie THEY (and you) pointed out.
 
S

SUPREME1

Banned
PARDON THE INTERUPTION:


What is the best deal out at the moment for HD DVD hardware?

Are there any deals going on right now or in the very near future where I could get a package tha twould include several free movies?

I went into BB to get the A2 for $99 but they were sold out.. I went after work in the evening.

Anyway, I was trying to get my In-Laws a nice little HD player for cheap and I misse dout. I remember reading about a bunch of free movies and I am hoping there is still such a deal going on somewhere.

They have a 720P Toshi.. so the whole 1080 thing doesn't matter much.


Any help would be appreciated.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I think you missed all the good deals. BB's 3 free movie offer has expired, apparently. Wait for the next round of deals, I guess. It's the holiday season, those prices WILL be back.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
VanMardigan said:
Without getting personal, let me respond to that:
1. Why would you assume that SM3 will outsell Transformers despite an (apparently) slower first week and the bad "word of mouth" you mentioned earlier?
2. You got the argument backwards. Somebody ELSE crowed about Transformers not selling up to expectations, I made a connection with a movie THEY (and you) pointed out.
Click to expand...

1. I could be wrong. It's only marginally slower, and there's a bigger base out there. In any case, my argument would stand even if it undersold and was close, which is the worst-case projection of the first week.
2. That wasn't crowing, it was saying it didn't have as big an impact as somebody was assuming Dreamworks titles would have. Slightly poor choice of words on his part that you jumped all over.

In fact, that seems to be the pattern for today-- jump on one small detail and miss the overall picture. Point number one is the same thing, as was getting rilled about my "lesser extent" comment re: Sony and losses whent he point was that there were BluRay players being sold by CE companies looking to make money on those sales, not on software sales. Three times today you've blown up one small detail and ignored the larger point.
 
Y

yacobod

Banned
i mean lets go back to about a month or two ago when it was announced that transformers was hd dvd exclusive

the amount of bitter tears and QQ coming from the bluray grp was legendary, lets not go back digging up old threads

now they find solace in the fact that it underperformed at 190k or w/e :lol
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
yacobod said:
i mean lets go back to about a month or two ago when it was announced that transformers was hd dvd exclusive

the amount of bitter tears and QQ coming from the bluray grp was legendary, lets not go back digging up old threads

now they find solace in the fact that it underperformed at 190k or w/e :lol
Click to expand...
At 115K.

Which still makes 300 on BD the best selling HD title first week.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
yacobod said:
i mean lets go back to about a month or two ago when it was announced that transformers was hd dvd exclusive

the amount of bitter tears and QQ coming from the bluray grp was legendary, lets not go back digging up old threads

now they find solace in the fact that it underperformed at 190k or w/e :lol
Click to expand...
1 or 2 months? Try AUGUST. Feel free to dig, as i recall there were more red kool aid drinkers that absolutly came out of the woodwork to troll after that.
And it didnt do 190k, that was PR speak by Paramount/Dreamworks.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but now that the movie has come out and HD DVD still isnt winning anything there isnt much to be "bitter" over.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
??

Bitter tears still in effect, this isn't the gaming forum, where we root for our titles to obliterate the other side's titles. Most were pissed that the format war was guaranteed to be extended anouter year or so. No change there.

Transformers selling less well was a forgone conclusion, otherwise it wouldn't have taken $150 to bring Paramount and Dreamworks exclusive.
 
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