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[mollipen]

So, what effect will this have on the ratios? A lot, little, none at all? I want to hear what people think. Like I said earlier, HD DVD was already doing well considering the player gap, and moving 90k in a week can only help to close that gap, I would think.

I think that - and I could be totally off base here - we have to wait and see what kind of consumer it was that purchased these players. At the previous price points, consumers were typically people who were serious about buying a high-def media player, and who were ready to also put at least a decent level of money into also buying high-def discs. (You know, early adopter and all of that.)

At $99, it's possible that a decent amount of those people were the type of person who wanted to try HD-DVD, but didn't want to make a serious commitment. At $99, though, that's low enough to give it a shot. That kind of consumer may either (a) not buy a lot of HD-DVDs period during ownership (aka be a casual customer), or (b) may be slow to get into the world of HD-DVD, so they won't greatly affect numbers right away.

Of course, it could also have been a lot of the "pent up demand" consumers (as people are calling those gamers waiting for the $399 PS3), and we could see a huge spike in HD-DVD sales now that the player is at a point where they feel comfortable jumping in.

 

[HyperionX]

I think that - and I could be totally off base here - we have to wait and see what kind of consumer it was that purchased these players. At the previous price points, consumers were typically people who were serious about buying a high-def media player, and who were ready to also put at least a decent level of money into also buying high-def discs. (You know, early adopter and all of that.)

At $99, it's possible that a decent amount of those people were the type of person who wanted to try HD-DVD, but didn't want to make a serious commitment. At $99, though, that's low enough to give it a shot. That kind of consumer may either (a) not buy a lot of HD-DVDs period during ownership (aka be a casual customer), or (b) may be slow to get into the world of HD-DVD, so they won't greatly affect numbers right away.

Of course, it could also have been a lot of the "pent up demand" consumers (as people are calling those gamers waiting for the $399 PS3), and we could see a huge spike in HD-DVD sales now that the player is at a point where they feel comfortable jumping in.

I agree. HD-DVD has reached a price point that it doesn't even affect you one way or the other if you get it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Blu-ray owners went "neutral" at that point just for some cheap missing movies in their libraries. The problem then becomes similar to the PS3, where most of the buyers probably aren't going to be buying very many movies.

 

[OokieSpookie]

The problem then becomes similar to the PS3, where most of the buyers probably aren't going to be buying very many movies.

Oh jesus fucking christ.
Yeah tell that to the 34 movies in my collection...

"PS3 is the only reason Blu is winning"
"Bu bu bu PS3 owners don't buy movies"
Which the fuck is it.

And I can guarantee that no matter how many A2 and A3s are sold this entire month that there will easily be more PS3s sold not even including Blu stand alones.

 

[mollipen]

It could also be a case of people picking up an HD-DVD player now because its cheap, not exactly because they want to use it now. I got my 60GB PS3 when there was a decent deal on it, and when I knew that a fully back-compat PS3 wasn't going to be around for much longer. I picked it up in September, and I've still yet to get a game for it.

If I was going to support HD-DVD, I probably would have jumped at the $99 player, even though I don't even have an HDTV yet.

Again, it'll be interesting to see if we get an idea of what kind mind-set of consumer it was that went for the model. (Or how many of those people might be current HD-DVD owners who were getting a cheap second model, as was mentioned.)

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

We won't know the effect for a little while, even if it has one. The free initial movies and the fact that some are likely presents is going to slow any swing they bring. This is neither meant to undermine nor make excuses for HD-DVD performance.

 

[B-Ri]

the typical consumer is a skeptic IMO.

If i were to go to someone and say

"hey this is a BRAND NEW technology, HD-DVD player, and im gonna give you 2 movies FREE packed in, and while im at it give you a whole season of this popular TV show super expensife for FREE, AND this coupon for even MORE free movies"

i would expect someone to say

"why? whats wrong with it"

its a fire sale to me. It took a fire sale for HD-DVD to make the game interesting again, but it only did worse for everyone when it was finally really leaning to one side. I almost broke down with it, but id rather just support the format that got into my home first.

Wait it out peoples, dont go neutral. The movies you need NOW in HD are only goign to be dirt cheap once a clear winner is hailed. The Video/audiophiles are as much to blame for the extension of this format war.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Can we cut the talk of fire sales? It's lame. This isn't a fire sale, don't be so naive. It's called positioning before the holidays.

If this sale was happening in February and it wasn't temporary, then yeah, it might raise more eyebrows than just the those of the Blu veined army.

Can't we just be happy that prices are coming down, people are getting good deals, and HD adoption is happening at a faster rate?

 

[OokieSpookie]

Can we cut the talk of fire sales? It's lame. This isn't a fire sale, don't be so naive. It's called positioning before the holidays.

If this sale was happening in February and it wasn't temporary, then yeah, it might raise more eyebrows than just the those of the Blu veined army.

Can't we just be happy that prices are coming down, people are getting good deals, and HD adoption is happening at a faster rate?

I agree that fire sale is a bit harsh, but there is that whole bit with that model being no more.
(Well at least I think we are past the bit where people are trying to refute that the A2 is no more)

So I would say it is more of a 33% move to pad install base numbers for gratuitous back self back patting and fud purposes, 33% get rid of the players that are sitting on the shelf to make way for new models, 33% strategic pre holiday strike and 1% hail mary pass.

 

[HyperionX]

Oh jesus fucking christ.
Yeah tell that to the 34 movies in my collection...

"PS3 is the only reason Blu is winning"
"Bu bu bu PS3 owners don't buy movies"
Which the fuck is it.

And I can guarantee that no matter how many A2 and A3s are sold this entire month that there will easily be more PS3s sold not even including Blu stand alones.

Uhhh, I'm not discounting the fact that PS3 > 10 * All HD-DVD players put together. PS3 makes it up with sheer volume. Nearly free HD-DVD players don't however.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Uhhh, I'm not discounting the fact that PS3 > 10 * All HD-DVD players put together. PS3 makes it up with sheer volume. Nearly free HD-DVD players don't however.

Fair enough then, my apologies.
I ran out of Guinness and I am out of rum and chartreuse so I am a bit tender at the moment.
Hold me?

 

[B-Ri]

its not the price of the player that makes me scream fire sale, its the fact they give you software thats just about double the damn players selling for.

 

[mr stroke]

even with the "fire sale" of HD DVD going on at the moment HD DVD still has one major issue-You cant rent these damn movies other than online or very very limited Blockbusters....
Not many people I know buy a ton of movies, they mostly rent and for me to buy an HD DVD player for my parents would be useless at this point because they like alot of people only rent movies and could never find a BB or HV that would rent them...if Toshiba were smart they would be pushing rentals a really hard through BB. BR still has a big upper hand here with a lot of BB's stocking BR

 

[B-Ri]

even with the "fire sale" of HD DVD going on at the moment HD DVD still has one major issue-You cant rent these damn movies other than online or very very limited Blockbusters....
Not many people I know buy a ton of movies, they mostly rent and for me to buy an HD DVD player for my parents would be useless at this point because they like alot of people only rent movies and could never find a BB or HV that would rent them...if Toshiba were smart they would be pushing rentals a really hard through BB. BR still has a big upper hand here with a lot of BB's stocking BR

the industry wants us to buy more, DVD sales dropping = they are sad pandas.

It can be spinned in either direction (not to say your spinning)

 

[Marty Chinn]

It seemed like to me that a significant number of those units sold went to people who already were HD-DVD owners. I wonder what percentage were buying secondary players.

 

[YYZ]

even with the "fire sale" of HD DVD going on at the moment HD DVD still has one major issue-You cant rent these damn movies other than online or very very limited Blockbusters....
Not many people I know buy a ton of movies, they mostly rent and for me to buy an HD DVD player for my parents would be useless at this point because they like alot of people only rent movies and could never find a BB or HV that would rent them...if Toshiba were smart they would be pushing rentals a really hard through BB. BR still has a big upper hand here with a lot of BB's stocking BR

I think there's more to have on BD, especially with the children's market cornered with Disney/Pixar. I'm curious to what kind of crowd is picking up on the Wal-Mart deal, I'm guessing it's mostly families.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

It seemed like to me that a significant number of those units sold went to people who already were HD-DVD owners. I wonder what percentage were buying secondary players.

Is that mostly anecdotal?

I'd like to know too though. My dad got his first player, my buddy his first, and my brother his first. I nearly picked up a second, but held off. 10 free movies though...maybe I should have.

 

[Raistlin]

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg

 

[Marty Chinn]

Is that mostly anecdotal?

I'd like to know too though. My dad got his first player, my buddy his first, and my brother his first. I nearly picked up a second, but held off. 10 free movies though...maybe I should have.

Oh ya, completely from just observation. I know I got a second player and it just seems like the general excitement from AVS with people buying them were a lot of people who already had players.

 

[retardboy]

But... You're reading AVS forum... Of course many of them were buying second players. It's... AVS forum... If you were reading the fatwallet thread though, seemed like lots of them were getting them for the first time.

 

[C4Lukins]

It seemed like to me that a significant number of those units sold went to people who already were HD-DVD owners. I wonder what percentage were buying secondary players.

Well it will become quite obvious when next week software sales increase for BR significantly. We can only pretend right

 

[Snah]

Ratatouille Blu-Ray is #3 on Amazon's best sellers list. 0_o

It also seems Pixar's films are definitely selling more than Spiderman, though I'm not sure how we can take from that given that Spiderman is split between 3 and the trilogy.

Still, impressive outing so far for the Pixar films and well deserved.

 

[Kintaro]

Can't we just be happy that prices are coming down, people are getting good deals, and HD adoption is happening at a faster rate?

I'd be happier if the war was over at a faster rate, either way.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Speaking of Shrek 3, why is it that one out of every five commercials I see for it even makes passing brief mention of "on dvd and hd"
You would think that with the new influx of new players in homes that you would blitz them to put the product in their minds.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Ratatouille Blu-Ray is #3 on Amazon's best sellers list. 0_o

It also seems Pixar's films are definitely selling more than Spiderman, though I'm not sure how we can take from that given that Spiderman is split between 3 and the trilogy.

Still, impressive outing so far for the Pixar films and well deserved.

I agree that it is great, but seriously no amazon rankings please.

 

[Snah]

I agree that it is great, but seriously no amazon rankings please.

Why?

I thought it was good news as that's the highest I've ever seen an HD movie.

 

[mrklaw]

how will the software offers for the HDDVDs affect sales?

i.e will the 3 free movies + 7 discs + free massage actually show up as sales?

Because if not, there could be some significant delay before we see those 90k purchasers going out and buying any new discs. Thats assuming they are active users.

At $99 its possible Toshiba will be picking up quite a few less active HDDVD purchasers. so I don't think you can take the previous software ratio and simply extrapolate from that.

 

[Snah]

how will the software offers for the HDDVDs affect sales?

i.e will the 3 free movies + 7 discs + free massage actually show up as sales?

Because if not, there could be some significant delay before we see those 90k purchasers going out and buying any new discs. Thats assuming they are active users.

At $99 its possible Toshiba will be picking up quite a few less active HDDVD purchasers. so I don't think you can take the previous software ratio and simply extrapolate from that.

It would be really disingenuous to report those as 'sales', imho.

 

[Evlar]

God is this a beautiful film. Holy shit.

I have no idea what you people are doing in here talking about players and sales when you could be watching Ratatouille. Speaking of... see ya!

 

[mr stroke]

how will the software offers for the HDDVDs affect sales?

i.e will the 3 free movies + 7 discs + free massage actually show up as sales?

Because if not, there could be some significant delay before we see those 90k purchasers going out and buying any new discs. Thats assuming they are active users.

At $99 its possible Toshiba will be picking up quite a few less active HDDVD purchasers. so I don't think you can take the previous software ratio and simply extrapolate from that.

well considering most of those 5 free movies are 3 months in the mail later and that you can't rent HD DVD other than online I would think there should be a pretty good attach rate for discs, considering the releases coming out in the next 2 months(shrek+bourne)

 

[OokieSpookie]

how will the software offers for the HDDVDs affect sales?

i.e will the 3 free movies + 7 discs + free massage actually show up as sales?

Because if not, there could be some significant delay before we see those 90k purchasers going out and buying any new discs. Thats assuming they are active users.

At $99 its possible Toshiba will be picking up quite a few less active HDDVD purchasers. so I don't think you can take the previous software ratio and simply extrapolate from that.

The Best Buy movies (two of your choice three of your choice whatever) do count toward sales, they are rang up and then essentially hit with an instant rebate.

 

[YYZ]

everyone shut up and watch Ratatouille, the movie and the features are a good 4 hours, 4 hours of potential peace in this thread.

 

[Argyle]

how will the software offers for the HDDVDs affect sales?

i.e will the 3 free movies + 7 discs + free massage actually show up as sales?

Because if not, there could be some significant delay before we see those 90k purchasers going out and buying any new discs. Thats assuming they are active users.

At $99 its possible Toshiba will be picking up quite a few less active HDDVD purchasers. so I don't think you can take the previous software ratio and simply extrapolate from that.

I am all about bleeding Toshiba out. After I get my free HD DVDs, no more red discs for me, I'm just gonna rent 'em from Netflix.

I haven't even put an HD DVD in my A2 yet...although Knocked Up should be in the mail tomorrow...

everyone shut up and watch Ratatouille, the movie and the features are a good 4 hours, 4 hours of potential peace in this thread.

I just ordered it today so it'll be a while before I get my copy

But I did finally get around to watching the copy of Black Book I rented from Netflix - great movie, and the transfer is stunning IMHO.

 

[mr stroke]

anyone picked up OLDBOY yet?? I orderd from BB but from the reviews(not so good) I can't decide on what to do...
I am a huge fan of the film and have waited for the BR release to buy it, but now it seems like an average disc in terms of PQ
It doesnt say online if the content on the BR and SDDVD are the same???
both the BR and SD DVD collectors edition are the same price...hmmmm
wich one?-

or 3 disc limited edition DVD

 

[XMonkey]

I picked up Oldboy at Frys today. I'm not the best source when it comes to PQ reviews as my projector is SD only (although HD content does look noticeably better), but it does seem softer in some parts than other BDs I have. The bitrate is sufficient, but it seems like they could have used a better master for the transfer.

The extras on the BD are basically commentary (well, the trailer too), while all the other extras are on a normal DVD.

I would buy it on Bluray because you're unlikely to see a new release, and Tartan is looking at how sales of the Bluray do in deciding whether or not to release more movies.

 

[Marty Chinn]

God is this a beautiful film. Holy shit.

I have no idea what you people are doing in here talking about players and sales when you could be watching Ratatouille. Speaking of... see ya!

My Ratatouille hasn't arrived yet, but holy shit at Cars. I'm amazed at how well this looks. Easily the best demo disc I have now. It looks better than when I saw it in the theater. I can only imagine how much better Ratatouille looks.

 

[pickwick]

It seemed like to me that a significant number of those units sold went to people who already were HD-DVD owners. I wonder what percentage were buying secondary players.

Are you kidding ? What is the interest for an HD-DVD owner for buying an (already) old HD-DVD player that even don't play movies in 1080p ????

Maybe you could ask : "I wonder what percentage of Bluray owners were buying this HD-DVD player" ...

 

[Solo]

Last night was my second dip into the HD DVD Kubricks, this time it was The Shining. Call me crazy, because pretty much every review has said the opposite, but I wasn't nearly as impressed with The Shining's IQ as I was with A Clockwork Orange's. Maybe it has something to do with the existing TS DVD looking pretty decent, whereas older versions of ACO looked awful. Either way, I enjoyed revisiting The Shining immensely, but I still feel its a lesser Kubrick work.

 

[Dot50Cal]

post them here?

Well they wont serve much use here. Xylon already posted his shots and I was curious how accurate his method of getting shots was compared to an HD capture card. Turns out its pretty accurate, with some slight color differences. Though they can probably be blamed on the capture card.

 

[Naked Snake]

So what's the best deal currently out there on an HD-DVD player? I always thought I'd get bluray first, but PS3 is not tempting enough for me yet.

 

[gkryhewy]

So what's the best deal currently out there on an HD-DVD player? I always thought I'd get bluray first, but PS3 is not tempting enough for me yet.

All the good deals are gone at the moment. The best deal, I suppose, is the HD-A3 for $299 with 10 movies, but it was $199 over the weekend. I'd suggest waiting for another deal like that, which will be posted in this thread or here: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=26

Should be good deals again later this month.

 

[VanMardigan]

I am all about bleeding Toshiba out. After I get my free HD DVDs, no more red discs for me, I'm just gonna rent 'em from Netflix.

I haven't even put an HD DVD in my A2 yet...although Knocked Up should be in the mail tomorrow...

Toshiba is doing great financially. I'm sorry, you won't be able to "bleed them out". Also, even if ALL the regulars here got together and purchased a specific HD DVD, it wouldn't change the top ten or the software ratios. Consider then, how insignificant it would be for you to purchase one.

I read on HDD about some guy that bought a Ps3 and was only renting Blu Rays as well. That idiot also thought he was "bleeding out" Sony. Once you realize that you can't change the outcome here, you free yourself of such ignorant thinking and just enjoy the movies. You're not bleeding out anything, and your refusal to buy movies for a device you willingly bought is not only retarded, it's also useless.

I envy the fact that you can own both formats right now, but I certainly don't envy your misguided thinking that you somehow have a personal responsibility to a competing format that prevents you from buying software for a device you just recently bought.

And you know, someone mentioned that the stuff on AVS is getting personal and they had to close down the forum. As much as I argue here, I can't see it going beyond an internet discussion (essentially meaningless). But I'm watching an HD DVD last night with my wife, and I get a trolling message on Xbox Live in the middle of the movie. That, I think, is taking this a bit too far, and makes me question whether I should back away from these discussions in general. I think people are taking this format war far too personally. I post here, mostly from work. I hear about great deals first, I find out about upcoming releases from both sides, and have discussions about format preferences and which one (if any) is likely to prevail.

I'm asking folks here to NOT take this personally, and PLEASE don't contact me on XBL or anywhere outside of these boards to troll me about HD DVD. I'm not the man in charge of HD DVD, I'm not responsible for either format. If I'm watching a movie with my family, please leave me alone.

 

[Kolgar]

This 90,000 is an important number but it won't have an immediate impact on software sales.

1) Lots of folks unwrapping gifted players on Christmas means less software sold until then.
2) Some folks bought the player in preparation for going HD--i.e., it was a great deal and it'll be great to have once they buy that new HDTV.
3) Many likely sold to current HD DVD owners wanting a second (or third) player. (Esp. upgrading from the 360 add-on or putting one on another TV in the house--so they don't need to buy those dern Combo Discs
4) Wal-Mart had a shitty selection of movies and that undoubtedly hurt software sales last weekend
5) And on and on.

What this does do is give HD DVD a huge PR boost, rally existing supporters, and send a message to retailers and consumers that the format is very much alive. It also builds hype and gets people who missed out on the first sale excited for future ones.

The format is now positioned to make inroads into the mass market.

As for the A2 being discontinued, I know that's a logical assumption yet both Amazon and Wal-Mart continue to replenish their supplies online. I think it's possible there is truth to the rumor that Toshiba produced a good (great) supply of these players for Wal-Mart for the holidays, enabling them to use their retail might to push these into the marketplace with big promotions while allowing other retailers, such as Best Buy, to happily sell the newer, ostensibly "better" A3 at a higher price, while still appearing to be a good deal.

edit:

I'm asking folks here to NOT take this personally, and PLEASE don't contact me on XBL or anywhere outside of these boards to troll me about HD DVD. I'm not the man in charge of HD DVD, I'm not responsible for either format. If I'm watching a movie with my family, please leave me alone.

Holy shit, that's sad. Sorry, Van. Yes, I think this stupid format war has brought out some real crazies.

 

[Cheebs]

So I took the plunge and got a HD-DVD player with Transformers the other day.

What are the best looking HD-DVD titles out there to get?

 

[Brakara]

If I'm watching a movie with my family, please leave me alone.

That guy sending you a message must have been a fucking retard. In better news, you do know that you can turn off message notifications while watching movies? Not only can you do it, but I heartily recommend it.

What are the best looking HD-DVD titles out there to get?

Get Planet Earth, it's stunning.

 

[VanMardigan]

So I took the plunge and got a HD-DVD player with Transformers the other day.

What are the best looking HD-DVD titles out there to get?

From the ones I've own/seen:
Batman Begins
King Kong
Matrix
Hot Fuzz
MI3
Planet Earth
Letters from Iwo Jima
Happy Feet
Children of Men
Departed
Shooter

 

[plagiarize]

Oh jesus fucking christ.
Yeah tell that to the 34 movies in my collection...

"PS3 is the only reason Blu is winning"
"Bu bu bu PS3 owners don't buy movies"
Which the fuck is it.

And I can guarantee that no matter how many A2 and A3s are sold this entire month that there will easily be more PS3s sold not even including Blu stand alones.

obviously some PS3 owners get as heavily into blu-ray as people that bought stand alones. my collection just reached the double digits and it'll continue to catch up in size with my hd-dvd collection i'd imagine, so long as Anchor Bay/Starz keep pumping out must own horror movies for me... but that's by the by.

obviously the average PS3 owner buys a lot less movies than the average stand alone user, however, due to the sheer number of PS3 owners compared to stand alone owners, it has a huge impact on sales.

you can see it in the software sales. blu to red software sales are about 2:1, where blu to red players are probably more like 10:1 (i don't have the figure so if someone does, please parachute it in) counting the PS3.

if it's still true that there are more standalone hd-dvd players out there than standalone blu-ray players, it's obvious that the PS3 is making a big difference.

now whining about that like it isn't fair somehow... is just annoying, and i wish people wouldn't do it too... but hopefully that sheds a little light on the issue for you.

Van... really sorry to see people being like that to you. you're definately one of the posters in this forum that has a side, but is polite about it and goes to effort to form arguments.

it gets heated in here a lot... s'one of the reasons i follow the thread (that and news on the latest disks).

 

[Kolgar]

So I took the plunge and got a HD-DVD player with Transformers the other day.

What are the best looking HD-DVD titles out there to get?

Corpse Bride is simply beautiful, very 3D looking.

Cute movie, too.

 

[Captain N]

Any word on the Ocean's gift set? Will the HD DVD have any features the BluRay won't?

 

[Wulfer]

This better scare the BDA into dropping entry level price down to $299 like right now. They're on the verge of losing the war, if something like this goes unapposed, and Warner sees HD-DVD comfortably in the mass market and back HD-DVD. Granted it was a 1 time thing (the 99 dollar players) but all the same, Bluray needs dominance to keep it's peices, HD DVD just needs to chip away at one notable supporter and the rest would start to fall.

Smartest quote yet and exactly what Toshiba and HD-DVD have been doing! Pure Genius!

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

God is this a beautiful film. Holy shit.

I have no idea what you people are doing in here talking about players and sales when you could be watching Ratatouille. Speaking of... see ya!

Not yet I can't!

My wife and I really, really loved this movie, and it's kind of up our friends' alley as well-- our friends tend to love Brad Bird, eat out a lot at nice places, and generally like clever movies. We're having a movie night at our place Friday and inviting everybody over.

Having a projector is awesome.