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[plagiarize]

kumbaya my lord...

all together now!

 

[captive]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8546314&postcount=20000

 

[user friendly]

Picked up Rat last night, still have yet to watch it though. Had to finish SM3 (rented), bleh. Glad I didn't buy the trilogy.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Van: although Bluray was losing, at the time of the PS3 launch, the general belief was that BluRay hadn't reallt started, and that the PS3 was the first decently-priced player to come out. The notion that it was losing was offset by the fact that it hadn't really gotten going yet, and that the PS3 was a wildcard that would likely change things. So instead of the short-sighted look at what was on the shelves, I looked at who was backing what. And there were all these Blu-exclusive studios, and only one HD-DVD exclusive.

And you know what? I was right. Blu *still* has the best chances. So I'm not sure what your criticising me for-- foresight and research?

Congrats Captive!

 

[thaivo]

Right, so why did just about every Ps3 Blu fan here (you included?) buy the Ps3 and Blu Ray movies at a time when they were losing?? Where was the one format club then?

Van, to be fair, the great majority of BD people came through PS3, and the day they bought their PS3's (PS3's launch date), the format immediately became the frontrunner.

 

[VanMardigan]

So who got the 20k post? It was one of the three c's I have on ignore, unfortunately.

edit:

Van, to be fair, the great majority of BD people came through PS3, and the day they bought their PS3's (PS3's launch date), the format immediately became the frontrunner.

That is precisely my point, but now they talk one format future crap when it didn't matter to them when they got their new PlayStation.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Van, to be fair, the great majority of BD people came through PS3, and the day they bought their PS3's (PS3's launch date), the format immediately became the frontrunner.

It's bascally a herd mentality. Only in this case, there's a distinct advantage to running with the herd. Anybody who says otherwise is too fond of underdogs for their own sake.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

So who got the 20k post? It was one of the three c's I have on ignore, unfortunately.

When you have posts on ignore, it give you a little button to click to view the post anyway.

That is precisely my point, but now they talk one format future crap when it didn't matter to them when they got their new PlayStation.

Can you not read? :lol

 

[thaivo]

No Thaivo im not insane, im tired of this attitude that some people have of "well if i cant have my format win i would rather both lose." What the fuck is that shit? This is about the movies not which company gets fucking royalties, let them fight over it.
You almost sounded like this for a minute there.

Captive. I'm not sure anyone, at least anyone with a HD DVD player or BD player, has ever said (or even impliedly said) that they would like HDM to die altogether rather than have the other format win. That would be a rather useless mindset.

20K posts?!? Jesus. :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

Can you not read? :lol

What, your FUD after the fact explanation?

Spoiler

sucks, don't it? I'll stop now but the next time you dismiss a post of mine as fud, we're done, which would suck, us being the top two posters and all

edit: so captive got the 20k.

It was a flamefest, wasn't it? I was flamed hard, wasn't I?

 

[OokieSpookie]

Right, so why did just about every Ps3 Blu fan here (you included?) buy the Ps3 and Blu Ray movies at a time when they were losing?? Where was the one format club then?

Because from reading around and looking around it just looked like the one that had a future.
Disk Space, studio support, everything else.
That is why I backed Blu from the start.

You would be amazed the freedom that not being clouded by Sony hate gives.
(Not that I am saying YOU have that bias but you get my point)

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Last fall:

Hmm,

$500 for HD-DVD player... more movies out right now

$600 for a PS3, not as many movies, but more studios pledging support, and it'll sell millions, and I get a media center/game player as a bonus, looks to be the ultimate winner....


Beleive me, the appeal of those movies on the shelf had me pondering a long while. You've seen my posts here, know know I still want Uni's back catalog and WB's as-of-yet unreleased titles on BD. But I wasn't going to buy two formats, and I did the research to know the BluRay had a brighter future.

 

[captive]

What, your FUD after the fact explanation?

Spoiler

sucks, don't it? I'll stop now but the next time you dismiss a post of mine as fud, we're done, which would suck, us being the top two posters and all

edit: so captive got the 20k.

It was a flamefest, wasn't it? I was flamed hard, wasn't I?

Honestly im surprised you havent put him on ignore yet, you seem to do it with anyone who disagrees with you.

Yes cause every post i make in response to you is a total flamefest.

 

[thaivo]

So who got the 20k post? It was one of the three c's I have on ignore, unfortunately.

It was Captive.

That is precisely my point, but now they talk one format future crap when it didn't matter to them when they got their new PlayStation.

Well fanatics will jump onto whatever argument seems most strong for their side at the time, that's true. I guess what I should have said is that some may have been ardent Playstation fans, and although some of them likely also wanted BD, a good majority bought the PS3 primarily as a game system. Then moved over to the BD fanaticism subsequent to that... when the PS3 turned out to perform less than gangbusters as a gamesystem.

It's bascally a herd mentality. Only in this case, there's a distinct advantage to running with the herd. Anybody who says otherwise is too fond of underdogs for their own sake.

Who doesn't like an uderdog? Not saying that Toshiba's like a small company or anything.

True there's always an advantage to running with the herd... but not for those that bought $1,200 profile 1.0 players. :lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

What, your FUD after the fact explanation?

Spoiler

sucks, don't it? I'll stop now but the next time you dismiss a post of mine as fud, we're done, which would suck, us being the top two posters and all

edit: so captive got the 20k.

It was a flamefest, wasn't it? I was flamed hard, wasn't I?

I'll dismiss whatever FUD you post as FUD. Two long paragraphs trying to dismiss the strengths of BluRay's market position with dodgy logic equals FUD.

You say standalone players have to outsell PS3's for the market to be viable, but don't really say why. They do, because for the format to be viable, players have to be about $200. And the point of the PS3 is to get BluRay players out there before that's possible. And it's working. And $200 BluRay players aren't far off. So trumpeting the PS3 advantage as a point of worry is FUD.

Please, go cry some more that your post that you worked so hard on was seen through so easily.

 

[VanMardigan]

I'll dismiss whatever FUD you post as FUD. Two long paragraphs trying to dismiss the strengths of BluRay's market position with dodgy logic equals FUD.

Please, go cry some more that your post that you worked so hard on was seen through so easily.

Ok

Because from reading around and looking around it just looked like the one that had a future.
Disk Space, studio support, everything else.
That is why I backed Blu from the start.

You would be amazed the freedom that not being clouded by Sony hate gives.
(Not that I am saying YOU have that bias but you get my point)

So, theoretically, someone who also reads around and feels like HD DVD will win is ok with you, right? Also, who's to say your judgment wasn't clouded by Sony love? Just saying, that stuff was always a toss up, and I'd say most industry folks still believe it is. It just doesn't make sense to pretend like you're part of an elite one format future club when nobody here would NOT buy a winning format.

 

[plagiarize]

Because from reading around and looking around it just looked like the one that had a future.
Disk Space, studio support, everything else.
That is why I backed Blu from the start.

You would be amazed the freedom that not being clouded by Sony hate gives.
(Not that I am saying YOU have that bias but you get my point)

studio support has always been the biggest thing to me... well, indirectly i guess. i buy films... i picked up HD-DVD first because at the time there were many more films out on HD-DVD that i wanted and hardly any on blu-ray (in some cases due to the transfers... i'm still praying for a remastered Silent Hill). as the Blu-Ray studios started putting out more and more films i've bought more and more blu-rays.

disk space for me, at least from a movie watching perspective, has never been an issue. obviously blu-ray has a brighter future as a general purpose optical storage format, but 30 gigs is ample for movies.

i feel the same about max bitrate too to be honest. i don't really care what's going on behind the scenes, disk space or bitrate wise, i just care about how my films look. again, if a film looks shitty, i don't care if it's because it's a terrible transfer or a bad codec... or whatever.

i couldn't be happier with my blu-rays and i couldn't be happier with my hd-dvds... but if things carry on as they are, my blu-ray library will soon pass my hd-dvd library... and this is coming from someone who (unless they're combos) will pick a warner movie up on hd-dvd rather than blu-ray (because of my harmony and because i love that the add on will max out optical bitrate... which is the best i can use on my current set up).

the thing is, studio support is still blu-ray favoured (for me actually more so than it was at the start of the year because i value Starz/Anchor Bay a LOT more than I value Paramount as a horror fan) but it's still something that could change. at this point, if any major studio makes a move, it tips the balance in the favor of the format they make a move to.

that isn't to say both can't have futures. look, so long as one survives and the studios that were backing the other switch over to it, i'm happy. i don't want to see both fail, and i certainly won't shed any more tears over the death of HD-DVD than i would Blu-Ray.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I guess what I should have said is that some may have been ardent Playstation fans

I *was* an ardent Playstation fan until 2003 or so. Or until March of 2006, depending on what measure you take.

True there's always an advantage to running with the herd... but not for those that bought $1,200 profile 1.0 players. :lol

You gotta wait for the herd to assemble....

Spoiler

really, that's about the weakest poke you can make... how many people actually bought those players at that price who wouldn't be upgrading their equipment every year anyway? Early early adopters aren't ordinary people. You don't exactly see those people all over the internet complaining about how they were robbed-- more likely they brag that they got there first.

 

[thaivo]

You would be amazed the freedom that not being clouded by Sony hate gives.
(Not that I am saying YOU have that bias but you get my point)

I hate Sony, and I feel very free. :lol

 

[thaivo]

Spoiler

really, that's about the weakest poke you can make... how many people actually bought those players at that price who wouldn't be upgrading their equipment every year anyway? Early early adopters aren't ordinary people. You don't exactly see those people all over the internet complaining about how they were robbed-- more likely they brag that they got there first.

Weak? Yes. True? Yes. You can't say it was an advantage to buy a spec 1.0 player for over a thousand dollars.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Weak? Yes. True? Yes. You can't say it was an advantage to buy a spec 1.0 player for over a thousand dollars.

No, I sure can't. Did I? No.

 

[FIREBABY]

Well fanatics will jump onto whatever argument seems most strong for their side at the time, that's true. I guess what I should have said is that some may have been ardent Playstation fans, and although some of them likely also wanted BD, a good majority bought the PS3 primarily as a game system. Then moved over to the BD fanaticism subsequent to that... when the PS3 turned out to perform less than gangbusters as a gamesystem.

Thats exactly what I see in most threads concerning HDM. I own a stand alone Blu Ray player and 2 HD dvd players(thanks Walmart). And really, who cares who wins this HD battle? Whether its HD or Blu, they still have to top DVD. Which I might add, ain't going away no time soon. As far as we know both could turn into the next UMD. Hell, if they do die I still will have 3 very nice upconverting DVD players. People just calm down. Its alot of people getting all emotional over greedy ass companys who just want more of your money.

 

[Shepherd]

:lol at those saying Walmart HD-DVD software sales are insignificant. They sold tens of thousands of HD players and had the HD-DVD movies on sale for $14.99.

 

[VanMardigan]

:lol at those saying Walmart HD-DVD software sales are insignificant. They sold tens of thousands of HD players and had the HD-DVD movies on sale for $14.99.

Why would you say they failed to make a dent in the software ratio? When do you expect the impact to be felt, in terms of disc sales? And I'm not being a smartass, I really do want to hear your take.

 

[captive]

Well i guess no one read the 20k post, or just dont care and would rather attack each other and argue.

 

[thaivo]

No, I sure can't. Did I? No.

Ok. So then you ultimately agree with me.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Ok. So then you ultimately agree with me.

That it's foolish to buy a $1200 movie player that isn't upgradable? Yeah. I don't think the people who actually bought one feel that way, though.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Ok



So, theoretically, someone who also reads around and feels like HD DVD will win is ok with you, right? Also, who's to say your judgment wasn't clouded by Sony love? Just saying, that stuff was always a toss up, and I'd say most industry folks still believe it is. It just doesn't make sense to pretend like you're part of an elite one format future club when nobody here would NOT buy a winning format.

Gaming yes, I am all Sony.
Movies I go with the movies I like, I do not care if it is Sony or if it in Sorny making the machines.

As far as the "elite one future club" and buying into the winning format, you miss the point a little...it is about trying to make sure the format you are invested in and have chosen wins not about switching after one wins.
I am dual format because I tend to not like to put something down unless I at least try it myself so I took the bite and did.
I own Heroes, Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead, and Batman Begins. I have borrowed 300 and Transformers and it did not change my mind.

All in all it is all pointless to really go in circles about.
I want blu to win and will do what I can to make that happen, others feel differently and do their thing.
I still find it sad though that people let their gaming bias affect this situation though.

 

[VanMardigan]

Oh, crap, so I read the 20k post. I'm sorry I did. Starts out as an appeal to stop flaming, then turns into a flamefest on HD DVD folks. I guess it's an apt reflection of the garbage in this thread on a daily basis.

As far as the "elite one future club" and buying into the winning format, you miss the point a little...it is about trying to make sure the format you are invested in and have chosen wins not about switching after one wins.
I am dual format because I tend to not like to put something down unless I at least try it myself so I took the bite and did.
I own Heroes, Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead, and Batman Begins. I have borrowed 300 and Transformers and it did not change my mind.

How can I try "to make sure the format you are invested in and have chosen wins not about switching after one wins"? I can't. And what did not change your mind about HD DVD? Did those movies not rock? Did they not look and sound great? Do you not now see how redundant and meaningless this format war really is?

 

[captive]

Oh, crap, so I read the 20k post. I'm sorry I did. Starts out as an appeal to stop flaming, then turns into a flamefest on HD DVD folks. I guess it's an apt reflection of the garbage in this thread on a daily basis.

Oh please tool, no where in that post did i flame anyone.

 

[Shepherd]

Why would you say they failed to make a dent in the software ratio? When do you expect the impact to be felt, in terms of disc sales? And I'm not being a smartass, I really do want to hear your take.

If what I am reading is correct then Walmart sales are not included in those figures.

 

[FIREBABY]

Gaming yes, I am all Sony.
Movies I go with the movies I like, I do not care if it is Sony or if it in Sorny making the machines.

As far as the "elite one future club" and buying into the winning format, you miss the point a little...it is about trying to make sure the format you are invested in and have chosen wins not about switching after one wins.
I am dual format because I tend to not like to put something down unless I at least try it myself so I took the bite and did.
I own Heroes, Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead, and Batman Begins. I have borrowed 300 and Transformers and it did not change my mind.

All in all it is all pointless to really go in circles about.
I want blu to win and will do what I can to make that happen, others feel differently and do their thing.
I still find it sad though that people let their gaming bias affect this situation though.

Huh?

 

[plagiarize]

Oh please tool, no where in that post did i flame anyone.

i'd have been able to take it a lot more seriously without this:

No Thaivo im not insane, im tired of this attitude that some people have of "well if i cant have my format win i would rather both lose." What the fuck is that shit? This is about the movies not which company gets fucking royalties, let them fight over it.
You almost sounded like this for a minute there.

Van I couldnt care less if you can read my posts, but often you post so much bullshit its insane. I love how it is only blu-ray fans that would rather have 1 format even if it isnt their own. I rarely if ever see HD DVD fans saying they would rather have Blu-ray win than have both lose. Anytime you want to pull your head out of your ass the rest of us would appreciate it.

you may feel those are justified statements, but to put them in a 'why can't we all just get along' post... i can't figure out what the hell you thought they'd achieve.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Ok



So, theoretically, someone who also reads around and feels like HD DVD will win is ok with you, right? Also, who's to say your judgment wasn't clouded by Sony love? Just saying, that stuff was always a toss up, and I'd say most industry folks still believe it is. It just doesn't make sense to pretend like you're part of an elite one format future club when nobody here would NOT buy a winning format.

An HD-DVD backer is OK with me. For that matter, those who want a dual-formt future are OK. I'll argue about why I think Blu is winning and why single-format is far preferable, but I won't hang anyone for their choices.

Gaming-wise, I'e been pretty pissed at Sony since the PS3 price announcement, and if games mattered more to me, I'd have a 360. I recommend the 360 for gaming over the PS3 although my friends who don't have one want a PS3 after seeing mine anyway.

The One Format Club isn't about buying, it's about discussion here. Of course everybody will buy the winning format if one wins. It's about what you advocate and wish for. Are you telling me you wouldn't prefer HD-DVD win outright so you didn't have to go without some movies, or buy a second player?


Edit: captive, plag makes the same point I would. Not exactly peacemaking words.

 

[captive]

i'd have been able to take it a lot more seriously without this:



you may feel those are justified statements, but to put them in a 'why can't we all just get along' post... i can't figure out what the hell you thought they'd achieve.

You disagree that vans head isnt up his ass? Thats fine.
And i dont understand what you have a problem with, you saying dont see from both sides exactly what you bolded?

 

[VanMardigan]

Oh please tool, no where in that post did i flame anyone.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

C'mon, plagiarize, stop quoting him already. It's hilarious self ownage.

As for the numbers, what does next week look like? Another 70/30?

 

[thaivo]

That it's foolish to buy a $1200 movie player that isn't upgradable? Yeah. I don't think the people who actually bought one feel that way, though.

Those two sentences, when equated together either mean early BD adopters were absolute fools, or so rich that they can be foolish with their money.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Those two sentences, when equated together either mean early BD adopters were absolute fools, or so rich that they can be foolish with their money.

Second one. I believe Morphix bought a BluRay player day one (HD-DVD as well).

 

[Arsenal]

No one has mentioned the Stringer article yet?!?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iSSf4xA77eWwRXXF8SovYH6kRhRAD8SPU1BG0

NEW YORK (AP) — The head of Sony Corp., Howard Stringer, said Thursday that the Blu-ray disc format the company has developed as the successor to the DVD is in a "stalemate" with the competing HD DVD format, chiefly backed by Toshiba Corp. and Microsoft Corp.

"It's a difficult fight," said Stringer, speaking at the 92nd Street Y cultural center in Manhattan.

"We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while, until Paramount changed sides," Stringer said.

At the same time, he played down the importance of the battle, saying it was mostly a matter of prestige whose format wins out in the end.

"It doesn't mean as much as all that," Stringer said. He added that he believed there was an opportunity of uniting the two camps under one format before he became CEO, and he wishes he could travel back in time to make that happen.

 

[captive]

No one has mentioned the Stringer article yet?!?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iSSf4xA77eWwRXXF8SovYH6kRhRAD8SPU1BG0

Look back a few pages.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

We move fast. That was pages ago now.

 

[OokieSpookie]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

C'mon, plagiarize, stop quoting him already. It's hilarious self ownage.

As for the numbers, what does next week look like? Another 70/30?

With Cars and Rat and Spidey week 2 I would say that is a safe bet.

 

[thaivo]

No one has mentioned the Stringer article yet?!?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iSSf4xA77eWwRXXF8SovYH6kRhRAD8SPU1BG0

It's been mentioned, and actually, sort of started some of the recent strife.

 

[RaidenZR]

Well i guess no one read the 20k post, or just dont care and would rather attack each other and argue.

That's all that goes on here. There's no 'discussion' to be had. And if you dare try to chime in anything non-sensational you're quickly labeled and shoved to the side. Some people just keep perpetually posting to antagonize the other side, and it's growing tired. I graduated from that on the playground after the Mario and Sonic days.

Back to the topic, you can't discredit the fact that HD-DVD increased their userbase very significantly in a very short period of time (1 weekend). I use the word "significantly" because they posted good hardware numbers when keeping the relative scope of the HD market in mind. Also surprising is those Spidey numbers, especially after the somewhat poor aftertaste its theatrical run left in relation to the rest of the franchise. I don't think anyone doubted it would sell well, but to sell incredibly well alongside a more expensive bundle version and in the face of crazy HD-DVD deals is the surprising part. At least to me.

 

[VanMardigan]

The article was being discussed before the numbers came in. Stringer's just saying what most every other analyst has been saying for a while. I appreciate his honesty.

With Cars and Rat and Spidey week 2 I would say that is a safe bet.

I'm not sure the Pixar movies will be huge sellers, or that they'll top the charts. Spidey having legs is more of a sure bet to me, I think it has a better chance to be on top again. I don't think Chuck & Larry will sell either.

 

[FIREBABY]

Those two sentences, when equated together either mean early BD adopters were absolute fools, or so rich that they can be foolish with their money.

I missed that. So I must be fool? Or did I choose to buy what the fuck I wanted? I think it might be the second. So basicaly this thread is PS3 owners vs. HD Dvd stand alone owners? And this thread is supposed to be better than AVS? Right?

 

[OokieSpookie]

No one has mentioned the Stringer article yet?!?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iSSf4xA77eWwRXXF8SovYH6kRhRAD8SPU1BG0

It has been discussed and moved past.
It is not a surrender, it is not a show of weakness from Blu, it is nothing but a civil honest view of the format war.
Make sure you take a peek at this weeks numbers too...

 

[djkimothy]

This is the most livliest Friday I've seen in this thread. :lol

 

[OokieSpookie]

The article was being discussed before the numbers came in. Stringer's just saying what most every other analyst has been saying for a while. I appreciate his honesty.

Quite agreed, and I respect you for that.

 

[captive]

This is the most livliest Friday I've seen in this thread. :lol

Its also one of the saddest.