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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
avaya said:
Yep. Nothing till Q2.
Click to expand...
Uhhh what?

The Samsung BD1400 (FW update) and one of the Panny's already does. (the 1.1 player)
And so do two of the Toshibas. (with FW update)

They bitstream DTS-HD MA.
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
Battersea Power Station said:
OK, that's enough. Someone has to take a time out and explain to me the point of a DVD collection.

How many times can you watch Aeon Flux before shooting yourself? I couldn't make it 20 minutes into the movie.
The Hulk? Four Brothers?

Consumer dollars are our votes. Unless you really, REALLY love a movie and can watch it 50 times, don't vote for it. And no matter how different your tastes are from mine, there's no way you absolutely love every movie in that stack.
Click to expand...

Is awesome, but speaking of collections. I see buying a lot of movies good for the following reason, sure I'll never watch a movie 50 times and some movies might not get watched at all in a year but I want that option that if on some random day that I get in the mood to watch say The Shining I will be able to with only the biggest hassle of actually finding it.
 
S

sonycowboy

Member
sh4mike said:
I wonder if HD-DVD could limp along for a few years if Toshiba started putting out exclusively dual-format players @ $300 while managing to keep Universal exclusive.
Click to expand...

There's a whole pipeline to consider here.

1) Product: There's a trivial amount of movies out at this point and the inventory is 1/50th of the DVD inventory for those titles. Who are you really helping by continuing to put product out there? Once Universal and Paramount join Blu, why would anyone continue to buy HD-DVD titles from those two studios? And why would they continue to produce them?

2) Retailers: They don't like extra inventory when it's not necessary. I don't see them supporting HD-DVD when the two other movie studios join Blu. Even if that doesn't happen, the retail space will start to be skewed 90/10 in Blu-Ray's favor.

3) Players: Toshiba is pricing HD-DVD players with no or negative margin. And if the format is relegated to 10% (or less) of the market, why would they dedicate production factilities, promotional activity, or moneyhats to this format? They would be unable to produce any scale of economy that would support continued production.

If Paramount moves back, the war is absolutely over within 30 days IMO. Retailers, studios, media, CE are going to absolutely abandon HD-DVD.
 
A

avaya

Member
dallow_bg said:
Uhhh what?

The Samsung BD1400 (FW update) and one of the Panny's already does. (the 1.1 player)
And so do two of the Toshibas. (with FW update)

They bitstream DTS-HD MA.
Click to expand...

waaaa? shit i thought the current panasonic didn't :lol
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
btf1980 said:
You guessed wrong and are insinuating things that aren't even true. I get all my hifi gear from the premier shop on the East Coast. Stereo Exchange in Soho, Manhattan. It doesn't get more hi end than that. And i've auditioned everything from pro-ject turntables to everything in between, on high end speakers (B&W, Dali, Monitor, Sonus Faber, Gallo etc) and a good portion of the people I know have the same passion I share, music and have gear that is far more expensive than mine. I currently own Rotel (RSP 1069, RMB-1075 and CDP-1072) and B&W(Pair of CM7's, Pair of CM1's, CMC and a PV1 sub) gear, and prior to that I owned a seperate Classe CDP and Amps with B&W 805s. So, no...i'm not exactly listening to a boombox nor am I an uninformed, you're very mistaken. It's not a billionaires set-up, but it's still 20K worth of gear in 2 set-ups, and that counts for something, so I think i've earned to right to talk here.

IMG_0214.jpg

IMG_0223.jpg

IMG_0308.jpg


Let me be clear, I never said Vinyl was bad or inferior. You're the one making statements about superiority and inferiority here. If you said. "I think Vinyl is superior to SACD, DVD-A and CD." That would be one thing. No, you compared it to Beta losing to VHS...i.e. an inferior format beating a superior format. You even said it, there is nothing inferior from a technical standpoint. That is a fact. If you want to talk about sound preference, there is no arugement there, some people prefer Vinyl. My contention was that there is no factual data of it being superior, it's just a preference for some.

Telling me what "masses upon masses" of audiophiles do is irrelevant. Many of them are clearly insane. I don't care what "masses upon masses" think or do. I've seen many of the masses of audiophiles drop thousands on Nordost cables and interconnects, and they swear by it. I'm a member of an audio club (Bernardsville), and we've done AB testing with Nordost, Kimber and Canare 4s11 cables, of course most of the "experts" went on and on about this cable sounding "warm" that one being "rigid" etc....lol. We never told them that we all used Canare 4s11 cables for everything. We just let them believe what they wanted. Some people buy cable lifts because of the interference it will make if it touches the floor, whatever the fuck that means. I know people that wrap tin foil on their equipment. Just because masses upon masses do something or believe something doesn't make it factual. It makes it either their preference, or sadly in some cases, group think.

If you gave me a choice between a pro-ject-turntable or a CDP. I would take the pro-ject turntable, sell it on Audiogon and purchase a quality CDP with phenominal DAC's (Classe, Rotel, Musical Fidelity)
Click to expand...

Awsome setup. How much is that platform you have your amp on? I'm thinking about getting something like that to isolate my Sub off the floor.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Ashhong said:
correct me if im wrong, but isnt Universal a main part of HD-DVD? I thought i remember reading that someone from Universal is the copresident of the HD-DVD...thing. if thats true, universal probably wont leave until HD-DVD is ready to completely give up, no?
Click to expand...

They are high up in the food change ... but that doesn't mean they won't go. They are also a board member of the BDA, so it really isn't an issue.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
You know, if you told me last month that the HD war had the possibility of ending in January...you probably would have been laughed out the thread.

I can't believe all this is happening so quickly.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
btf1980 said:
Short answer....thanks.

You said SACD, DVD-A and CD were inferior formats to Vinyl as if it was factual, and not an opinion. I said it wasn't. I asked you how so and if you could prove it with factual data, not subjective posturing and useless verbiage. Your response? It sounds "natural and organic" and has that extra "something". Basically gibberish, and nothing factual. If you're going to throw out opinions like facts, back them up with facts, not "adjectives".
Click to expand...

The answer isn't quite that easy ... even from a factual standpoint.

There are a some things vinyl does better, so it then becomes a question of what specs are the most important. IMO, that actually depends on the type of music.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
jmdajr said:
WOW I didn't know that. It's technically impossible?
Click to expand...

I haven't kept up over at AVS ... so I'm not sure if it has been confirmed. Supposedly, the original HDMI 1.3 Tx board design (which is in the PS3) did not support this. It seems weird to me that it would even be a HW issue though, I would think it was firmware.


If it is true, I wonder if new PS3's will receive the HDMI output that does support it?
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
Maxpower just confirmed that Paramount's release clause has in fact been activated and they're considering buying themselves out of it.

I hope it comes true quickly and they do come back to Blu, Paramount have rights to UK distribution of a couple of upcoming films I want. :(
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
chubigans said:
You know, if you told me last month that the HD war had the possibility of ending in January...you probably would have been laughed out the thread.

I can't believe all this is happening so quickly.
Click to expand...

Ditto. Once Paramount swung Red, I figured this would all be happening a year form now. Until WB started making noises, anyway, and even then I figured it would be a while.
 
S

SRG01

Member
FFObsessed said:
Maxpower just confirmed that Paramount's release clause has in fact been activated and they're considering buying themselves out of it.

I hope it comes true quickly and they do come back to Blu, Paramount have rights to UK distribution of a couple of upcoming films I want. :(
Click to expand...

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
R

Rabid Wolverine

Member
FFObsessed said:
Maxpower just confirmed that Paramount's release clause has in fact been activated and they're considering buying themselves out of it.

I hope it comes true quickly and they do come back to Blu, Paramount have rights to UK distribution of a couple of upcoming films I want. :(
Click to expand...

Transformers here we come :D

And Dexter Season 1 and 2 ..... make it happen!
 
X

Xater

Member
FFObsessed said:
Maxpower just confirmed that Paramount's release clause has in fact been activated and they're considering buying themselves out of it.

I hope it comes true quickly and they do come back to Blu, Paramount have rights to UK distribution of a couple of upcoming films I want. :(
Click to expand...

Maxpower? Do you have a link or something?

This would be awesome because I want my "No country for old men" this year.
 
R

Rabid Wolverine

Member
Onix said:
If it is true, I wonder if new PS3's will receive the HDMI output that does support it?
Click to expand...

Someone over at AVS cracked open a recent 40GB PS3 to find the same chip still applies.

If Sony put the new version of the chip thats currently being used by Samsung and Panasonic in the current players it will be the best player bar none.

The PS2 recieved many hardware revisions adding new features, how long till the PS3 gets this? Maybe when the RSX goes 65nm which should have happened last month.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
So what he's really saying is...Uni is going Blu too?

Woo!

I can already smell the No country for Old Men BD
Click to expand...

That's a Disney release, and was already announced for Blu-Ray in some trade papers.
 
X

Xater

Member
chubigans said:
That's a Disney release, and was already announced for Blu-Ray in some trade papers.
Click to expand...

Not in Europe dude. Here it's a Paramount release and Disney's new movies are always region locked.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
Headed out to TRU to take advantage of the TRU BOGO.

I plan on getting:
Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Ratatouille
Cars
Meet the Robinsons

I want Bridge to Terabithia too, but I already have Casino Royale and Open Season and anyone who buys High School Musical 2 needs to be tossed into a gas chamber.

Then I'll swing by BB to grab 3:10 to Yuma.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
FFObsessed said:
Maxpower just confirmed that Paramount's release clause has in fact been activated and they're considering buying themselves out of it.

I hope it comes true quickly and they do come back to Blu, Paramount have rights to UK distribution of a couple of upcoming films I want. :(
Click to expand...

Link?

The one posted ... the wording's a bit ... weird.



He hasn't posted this at the AVS insiders thread yet. That seems weird.
 
A

avaya

Member
Maxpower confirmed at AVS that the release clause that has been activated for Paramount followed these failures by Toshiba

1) Bring Warner exclusive by Q1 2008
2) Bring another major CE on board

Amir confirmed the existence of a "shmuck clause" in the contract, an always available get-out.

We are just talking Paramount at the moment. Dreamworks Animation couldn't give two shits apparently.

Bill Hunt adds:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Well... we've had SOME confirmation this morning of the details of the Financial Times story from last night. While the studio isn't yet commenting, reliable industry sources are telling us that Paramount is indeed preparing to end their HD-DVD support and announce a return to the Blu-ray fold. Details are currently being finalized, and an announcement is expected as soon as they're complete. Paramount's first new Blu-rays will almost certainly include many of those titles that were cancelled last year, but that were already packaged and ready for shipping, so you could see them in stores very quickly once the studio announces.

Meanwhile, sources are telling us that Universal has also been talking with the BDA, and is looking to follow Paramount and Warner's lead as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
toshiba must have thought they had WB when they signed that. That also explains Bill Hunts sky is falling remarks after Paramount deal.

I wonder how close the WB/Fox thing really was to happening.
 
A

avaya

Member
StoOgE said:
toshiba must have thought they had WB when they signed that. That also explains Bill Hunts sky is falling remarks after Paramount deal.

I wonder how close the WB/Fox thing really was to happening.
Click to expand...

Quite close I'd imagine. Toshiba were TOTALLY blind-sided by this and it is readily apparent a lot of Microsoft's CES conference was total filler with the over-exposure on facebook-like web 2.0 technology.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
StoOgE said:
toshiba must have thought they had WB when they signed that. That also explains Bill Hunts sky is falling remarks after Paramount deal.

I wonder how close the WB/Fox thing really was to happening.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure some book is going to be written about just how close we were to having Warner/Fox go HD DVD exclusive in December. I can't even fathom the parallel universe we'd be living in at that point.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
avaya said:
Quite close I'd imagine. Toshiba were TOTALLY blind-sided by this and it is readily apparent a lot of Microsoft's CES conference was total filler with the over-exposure on facebook-like web 2.0 technology.
Click to expand...

I concur, it also explains the scheduled 2 hour press conference by the HDDVD group.

I wonder how much bigger this threads blowup would have been had that happened. Interesting to speculate.. I wonder if we would be hearing similar stories about Disney trying to get out of its BDA commitment.

This does also confirm, Fox was never under contract, which probably explains why they stopped releasing movies at one point.. were they being paid, they probably would have quotas to hit. They just love BD+

VanMardigan said:
I'm pretty sure some book is going to be written about just how close we were to having Warner/Fox go HD DVD exclusive in December. I can't even fathom the parallel universe we'd be living in at that point.
Click to expand...

Very likely. I'd certainly read it.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Posted?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article3153038.ece


Up to 20 firms backing HD-DVD consider defection after Warner opted for Blu-Ray and Paramount is poised to follow
Click to expand...

As many as 20 companies currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group could be preparing to remove their names from the alliance’s 130-strong membership list, The Times has learned.

Paramount yesterday emerged as the latest major Hollywood studio poised to switch allegiances.
Click to expand...

But Paramount, like other members of the HD-DVD group such as Fujitsu, Lenovo and Kenwood, has hedged its bets. It offered exclusivity in August on the basis that it could reverse the decision should Warner Bros switch to Blu-Ray.
Click to expand...

Pony Canyon, a major Japanese music, animation and film studio and part of the giant Fuji Television media empire, said that although it was currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group, the decisions of US studios meant it would “choose Blu-Ray in the end”.

Several other Japanese firms – including content producers and electronics component makers – said that their support of HD DVD was “under review” and that they knew of many others in the same position. Others, who admitted that they had previously been waiting for “clear market momentum”, said that it had now probably arrived.
Click to expand...
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
avaya said:
Yep earlier in the thread.

Interesting about Pony-Canon. I think their initial HD-DVD support stems from belonging to the same Keiretsu as Toshiba (Fuji is).
Click to expand...

Soz, missed that.
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
EDIT: Oh HELLO!

Well... we've had SOME confirmation this morning of the details of the Financial Times story from last night. While the studio isn't yet commenting, reliable industry sources are telling us that Paramount is indeed preparing to end their HD-DVD support and announce a return to the Blu-ray fold. Details are currently being finalized, and an announcement is expected as soon as they're complete. Paramount's first new Blu-rays will almost certainly include many of those titles that were cancelled last year, but that were already packaged and ready for shipping, so you could see them in stores very quickly once the studio announces.

Meanwhile, sources are telling us that Universal has also been talking with the BDA, and is looking to follow Paramount and Warner's lead as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

What's more, word is starting to circulate at CES that major big box retailers will begin winding down in-store support for HD-DVD as soon as these studios go public with their decisions. We're told that the industry's major retail partners are already pressuring Paramount, DreamWorks and Universal to go Blu following Warner's decision.
Click to expand...

Maybe Michael Bay was right about Walmart! :D

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
 
Xisiqomelir

Xisiqomelir

Member
gofreak said:
Posted?
Click to expand...

Bolded some picks. This is a fun game!

Chair Company Toshiba Corporation
Vice-Chair Company Memory-Tech Corporation, NEC Corporation
Auditor SANYO Electric Co., Ltd.
Secretary Toshiba Corporation

Managing member
Memory-Tech Corporation
NEC Corporation
SANYO Electric Co., Ltd.
Toshiba Corporation

General member : 61companies
ALMEDIO INC. Moser Baer India Ltd
ALPINE ELECTRONICS, INC. NEC Corporation
BANDAI VISUAL CO., LTD. NEC Electronics Corporation
Broadcom Corporation NIHONVTR INC.
CANON INC. Oerlikon Japan Co., Ltd.
CMC Magnetics Corporation ONKYO CORPORATION
Corel Corporation Paramount Home Entertainment
D&M Holdings Inc. PONY CANYON INC.
DTS, Inc. PonyCanyon Enterprise INC.
EXPERT MAGNETICS Corp. Prodisc Technology Inc.
FUJI PHOTO FILM CO., LTD. Protron Digital Inc.
Fujitsu Limited. PULSTEC INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD
FUNAI ELECTRIC CO., LTD. Q-TEC,INC.
Gibson Musical Instruments RICOH COMPANY LTD.
GM Records RITEK CORPORATION
Hewlett-Packard Company SANYO Electric Co., Ltd.
Hitachi Maxell, Ltd. Sonopress GmbH
Imation Corp TAIYO YUDEN CO.,LTD.
Intel Corporation TEAC CORPORATION
ITRI TEIJIN CHEMICALS LTD.
Justsystem Corporation Toemi Media Solutions Limited
KADOKAWA HOLDINGS,INC. TOPPAN PRINTING CO., LTD.
Kenwood Corporation TOSHIBA CORPORATION
kinyosha printing co.,ltd. TOSHIBA DIGITAL FRONTIERS INC.
Konica Minolta Opto, Inc. Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology Corporation
Lenovo Japan TOSHIBA-EMI LIMITED
McRAY Corporation TRENDY Corporation
Memory-Tech Corporation Ulead Systems, Inc.
Microsoft Corporation Universal Pictures
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co., Ltd. / Verbatim Warner Home Video Inc.
Mitsui Chemicals, Inc.

Associate member : 73 companies
Acer Inc. JP Co., Ltd
ACSES Co.,Ltd. Kaleidescape, Inc.
Ad Seeds Co.,Ltd Megan Media Holdings Bhd
Allion Test Labs, Inc. MITOMO CO., LTD
ALTECH ADS CO., LTD. MPO INTERNATIONAL
AudioDev AB Nero AG
ArcSoft, Inc NHK Technical Services, INC.
B.H.A Corporation NICHIA CORPORATION
BEKO Elektronik NIKKATSU CORPORATION
CDN Corporation, LTD. nixbu Entertainment GmbH & Co. KG
Clariant Japan OMNIBUS JAPAN
CyberLink Corp Onken Corporation
DAIKIN INDUSTRIES, Ltd. Online Media Technologies Ltd.
Daiko.co,ltd. Origin ELECTRIC CO.,LTD.
Daxon Technology Inc. OUTPOST FX (AB) International
Dedicated Devices, Inc. Pegasys, Inc.
DigiOn, Inc. PICO HOUSE Co.,LTD
Digital Site Corporation PIXELA CORPORATION
DISC LABO CORP. Plasmon OMS Sarl
Dolby Laboratories International Services Inc. Japan Branch PROBOXX.inc
dr. schwab Inspection Technology GmbH PRYAID RECORDS INC.
DT JAPAN INC. Query inc
EBISTRADE,INC. Sanken Media Product Co., Ltd.
Entertainment Network Inc. Shibaura Mechatronics Corporation
EXA INTERNATIONAL Sonic Solutions
Finepack . Co.,LTD SUMITOMO HEAVY INDUSTRIES. LTD
Flag,Inc. SUPER VISION, INC.
FUJI PLASTIC CO LTD TOEI VIDEO CO., LTD.
FUJI SEIKI CO., LTD. TOHO COMPANY, LIMITED.
GEAR Software, Inc tokyo laboratory ltd.
Hamamatsu Metrix co.,ltd. TOPTICA Photonics AG
Hitachi High-Technologies Corporation TOYO RECORDING CO., LTD.
HOEI SANGYO CO., LTD. TRANSMIX Co., Ltd.
IDE-AVA U-Tech Media Corp.
IMAGICA Corp. VAP inc.
Info Source Multi Media Korea Ltd. Visionare Corporation
INFODISC Technology Co., Ltd.
 
O

Opus Angelorum

Member
Unlike previous format wars, particularly the notorious Betamax v VHS skirmish in the 1980s, the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD has effectively been decided in boardrooms, rather than electronics showrooms. The decisions of the major studios have come well before those of customers, who have generally held back from picking one format for fear of backing a loser.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was arguing a few pages ago.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
FFObsessed said:
Dreamworks can stay where they are for all I care, Paramount are the ones that have some very exciting movies coming up, as well as catalogue.
Click to expand...

Dreamworks has in their catalog:

Gladiator
Saving Private Ryan (Spielberg)
Amistad (Spielberg)
The Prince of Egypt
Road to Perdition
A.I. Artificial Intelligence (Spielberg)
Minority Report (Spielberg)
Catch Me if You Can (Spielberg)
The Terminal (Spielberg)
War of the Worlds (Spielberg)
Munich (Spielberg)

So dismissing Dreamworks in HD is just stupid. I want all of those in HD, especially the Spielbergs.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
The Bookerman said:
Check SSX(solid snakeX)'s post
Click to expand...

That's the post I'm referring to.


The wording seems odd. Others in the thread feel the same way ... and are requesting confirmation.




His Universal NDA slip-up earlier was great though :p
 
A

avaya

Member
FFObsessed said:
The clause has been activated but remember that doesn't mean they will actually take advantage of it, they would still have to pay a fee of some fraction of the $50 million the received from Toshiba.

Depends whether they could make that money back by releasing their movies on Blu-Ray.

Dreamworks can stay where they are for all I care, Paramount are the ones that have some very exciting movies coming up, as well as catalogue.
Click to expand...

This year HDM market was worth some $170mn on BD, with HD-DVD I think total size was ~$260mn. DVD is ~$42bn in comparison.

The BDA said in their press conference they expect to hit $1bn this year. ~4.0x growth. Could happen, especially given developments, (I think at max 3.0x). This could be the year that money in the market actually becomes relevant.

BD SAL magic pricepoint is $299, apparently the Sony and Samsung SAL sales increased substantially when they reached that price. Funai will street at $199.

Do or die now.
 
R

Ryu1999

Member
ManaByte said:
Dreamworks has in their catalog:

Gladiator
Saving Private Ryan (Spielberg)
Amistad (Spielberg)
The Prince of Egypt
Road to Perdition
A.I. Artificial Intelligence (Spielberg)
Minority Report (Spielberg)
Catch Me if You Can (Spielberg)
The Terminal (Spielberg)
War of the Worlds (Spielberg)
Munich (Spielberg)

So dismissing Dreamworks in HD is just stupid. I want all of those in HD, especially the Spielbergs.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Speilberg have autonomous decision where his films go? I remember reading quotes about that a lot of pages back
 
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