KZObsessed
Member
ManaByte said:
Dreamworks Animation and DreamWorks SKG are two different studios. I think Max was talking about Dreamworks Animation when he said they didnt really care about HD.
Or I'm just very confused....
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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
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Dreamworks Animation and DreamWorks SKG are two different studios. I think Max was talking about Dreamworks Animation when he said they didnt really care about HD.
Or I'm just very confused....
polyh3dron
Banned
FFObsessed said:Maybe Michael Bay was right about Walmart!
Michael Bay: The Prophet of our Times
...wtf
KZObsessed
Member
polyh3dron
Banned
Fixed.Onix said:
Some HD DVD fans seem to lack the bolded however, so they can.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Onix said:
I'm not, and realistically I can't.
I'm suggesting...never mind, my logic is obscured by the recent outcome.
Opus Angelorum
Member
polyh3dron said:
The ever trite polyhedron.
That Maxpower guy apparently got himself in hot water with his employer for posting a little too much (what we now know to be true) info previously, so him suddenly being so open about this new stuff must mean something IMO. That stealth NDA edit also...
And I would find it a little strange for a Financial Times article to be completely off base, especially as seeing they deal with the markets and could always have an ever so slight influence on trading in some way.
Universal and Paramount's silence in announcing new titles, and the non-confirmation of continued "exclusive HD-DVD support" in the canned PR response is deafening.
It's weird.. it's like we're watching this whole process occur in real time. God bless the internet
And I would find it a little strange for a Financial Times article to be completely off base, especially as seeing they deal with the markets and could always have an ever so slight influence on trading in some way.
Universal and Paramount's silence in announcing new titles, and the non-confirmation of continued "exclusive HD-DVD support" in the canned PR response is deafening.
It's weird.. it's like we're watching this whole process occur in real time. God bless the internet
I think your logic is just a little overwrought for it's own good. You're trying to make a explicit distinction between "decided in a boardroom" and "decided by consumers" when no such distinction really exists, not when products are allowed to go to market and decisions are made only after the products have been on sale for a year or more. Yes, a final decision about product future will be made in the boardroom, but if you think that decision is not significantly influenced by consumer reception up to that point, then it's no wonder your logic is coming across as "obscured".Opus Angelorum said:
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Content drives sales.
Studios determine content.
So yeah, the studios decided this. Which is what I was saying over a year ago.
A lot of people thought low prices and features would drive sales, and that would turn studios' attention away from Blu-ray, but that didn't happen.
Studios determine content.
So yeah, the studios decided this. Which is what I was saying over a year ago.
A lot of people thought low prices and features would drive sales, and that would turn studios' attention away from Blu-ray, but that didn't happen.
Whipped Spartan
Member
So, I am getting out with style! I went nuts on Ebay last night sold all of 19 movies save for 3 and my HD DVD 360 add on so far. Only waiting on Payment on one (the HD DVD add on).
Since all my movies were bought on BOGO or free I've made back all my money but 40 so far and I still have 3 movies left to sell. SELL THEM ALL NOW EBAYES LOVE THE HD DVD's!
I also bought a PS3 with that sony card $100 credit promo off sony. I am offically a sell out thanks GAF.
Since all my movies were bought on BOGO or free I've made back all my money but 40 so far and I still have 3 movies left to sell. SELL THEM ALL NOW EBAYES LOVE THE HD DVD's!
I also bought a PS3 with that sony card $100 credit promo off sony. I am offically a sell out thanks GAF.
Opus Angelorum
Member
kaching said:
Ignatz Mouse said:
That is exactly my argument. If all studios had been neutral from day one then it would have been down to the consumer, based on perceived value and features.
Azrael said:
BTW - Though he didn't directly correlate them ...
... he seems to be implying that two broken promises may have been the out.
1) Toshiba getting a Tier 1 CE to fab dedicated players. This never materialized due to Tosh's crazy subsidizing of their own units. They drove everyone away.
2) Toshiba getting another major studio HD DVD-only. It is assumed the hope was Warner. Obviously that backfired.
Eel O'Brian
Member
Someone sell me The Thing cheap. NEED MORE PANIC
Digital Playground is now Blu-ray exclusive...again
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/0...orn-digital-playground-steps-up-to-the-plate/
They were exclusive then went HD-DVD when replicators (Sony, Cinram, MEI) wouldn't give them a spot to make discs.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/0...orn-digital-playground-steps-up-to-the-plate/
They were exclusive then went HD-DVD when replicators (Sony, Cinram, MEI) wouldn't give them a spot to make discs.
plagiarize
Banned
i hope that an impending HD-DVD collapse opens the floodgates for Blu-Ray releases. Fox have a vast library that they haven't scratched. New Line ditto. The Weinstein Company stopped releasing anything of note months back too. I hope that consumers benefit by a renewed interest in HD releases from the studios, and that smaller companies that were holding out to see which format triumped jump in.
people can say it isn't over all they like, but it really is. Warner were the biggest studio in this. it was pretty obvious that they WANTED HD-DVD to succeed. they'd favoured the format. their support of it, was bigger than Universal's... even though they weren't exclusive.
the Paramount move was huge. it kept HD-DVD alive... but the biggest single blow that could have been dealt to HD-DVD has happened. i'll keep my HD-DVDs. i'll continue to enjoy my HD-DVDs... but if this opens the floodgates of releases it's hard to argue that this isn't pro consumer. we'll see of course, but i've been purple for a long time and the reason was so that i didn't have to care about the war.
doesn't mean that i won't be glad to see it end.
people can say it isn't over all they like, but it really is. Warner were the biggest studio in this. it was pretty obvious that they WANTED HD-DVD to succeed. they'd favoured the format. their support of it, was bigger than Universal's... even though they weren't exclusive.
the Paramount move was huge. it kept HD-DVD alive... but the biggest single blow that could have been dealt to HD-DVD has happened. i'll keep my HD-DVDs. i'll continue to enjoy my HD-DVDs... but if this opens the floodgates of releases it's hard to argue that this isn't pro consumer. we'll see of course, but i've been purple for a long time and the reason was so that i didn't have to care about the war.
doesn't mean that i won't be glad to see it end.
Things seem to be going pretty fast, if the format war is over by the end of the month with Universal and Paramount jumping on BR it will be really incredible.
BTW it's not like things can go differently, people are discussing about how Paramount can escape from their contract but at this point I believe that Toshiba has no interest in prolonging the agony, it's better if they all focus on the transition from DVD to Blu Ray instead of wasting money and time. They can let Universal and Paramount go, find a good deal with the BDA to manufacture combo players and prepare to make money with their BR products by the end of this year.
BTW it's not like things can go differently, people are discussing about how Paramount can escape from their contract but at this point I believe that Toshiba has no interest in prolonging the agony, it's better if they all focus on the transition from DVD to Blu Ray instead of wasting money and time. They can let Universal and Paramount go, find a good deal with the BDA to manufacture combo players and prepare to make money with their BR products by the end of this year.
Whipped Spartan said:
Seriously though, grats on unloading your stuff. Might want to hit up your local toys-r-us as they've got an in-store-only BOGO on select Blu-Ray discs this week. All the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, Cars, Ratatouille, Casino Royale.. and some others.
Opus Angelorum said:
Yeah but that's a pipe dream and I've never seen every single content provider in the world line up for one unified format upon its creation, at least not in my lifetime. Any time there's a new major media format introduced, the players all choose their respective sides and may the biggest wallet and PR machine win.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Home and Digital Playground?
Sony will have their work cut out!
Indeed, I understand quite well why Blu-Ray has been declared the victor, but you see my point concerning who was the declarer.
Sony will have their work cut out!
bill0527 said:
Indeed, I understand quite well why Blu-Ray has been declared the victor, but you see my point concerning who was the declarer.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Loudninja said:
Pun intended?
So content drives sales, studios determine content, therefore studios determine sales. Implied in there is that basically studios determine consumer will - is that what you really want to be saying? I'm surprised enough to see it from Ignatz.Opus Angelorum said:
bill0527, I was about to thank you for your post the other day about the BOGO at TRU.
I just picked up Ratatouille and Cars for $26 and change (including tax). Circuit City's getting their copy of Rat back, even though they'd price-matched BB for $20.
I didn't even know TRU sold BDs, much less was running a 2-for-1 sale.
Good times, great BOGOs.
I just picked up Ratatouille and Cars for $26 and change (including tax). Circuit City's getting their copy of Rat back, even though they'd price-matched BB for $20.
I didn't even know TRU sold BDs, much less was running a 2-for-1 sale.
Good times, great BOGOs.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
bill0527 said:
Yup.
I think Opus has the fact right, but not the meaning behind it.
As I said, Content drives sales, studios provide content. But the studios' initial decision is based on yet more (complex) factors and Blu-ray was better at putting them together.
The moneyhatting came relatively late in the game, apart from some to-be-expected subsidation to get things going. Sony (obviously) chose their parent, Fox and Disney for content control, WB was theoretically neutral based on their focus on advanced features pushing catalog titles (and when BDj or whatever stalled, they released a lot more HD-DVD_, Paramount was neutral, and I'm still not sure why Universal backed HD-DVD. Onec WB and Fox titles started flowing, and prices dropped, there was a semi-deadlock. Moneyhatting was the dynamite to try to break the deadlock. Blu apparently needed less dynamite to shift things their way, since the deadlock started with them having the advantage. In a way, all that studio confusion helped BD-- if more studios were neutral to start, HD-DVD may have gotten momentum enough from lower player prices to pull too far ahead from Blu. But the stalemate worked in Blu's favor, because over time, HD-DVD's major advantage-- price-- has withered away.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Loudninja said:
:lol
There's only so much you can do in porn.
Opus Angelorum
Member
kaching said:
I wouldn't quite word it as such.
When a studio determines that Transformers for example can only be purchased on HD-DVD, what choice does that give to a Blu-Ray owner? The only decision he can make is to buy an HD-DVD player.
If however it was available on both formats, and the Blu-Ray version outsold the HD-DVD version 2:1, that is a consumer decision.
Mr. Banana Grabber
Banned
Has there been any talk of Blu-Ray Audio like DVD-Audio? That would be sweet.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
kaching said:
People want HD movies, not HD players. Studios control the content that drive the purchase. I've been saying that since this war started-- that studio support will decide it. A lot of Reds thought that lower prices would drive enough sales that studios would reconsider. What we saw was that people were willing to pay more for a player to get more content.
We're going to hear a lot about how WB threw this thing Blu-ray's way in the form of sour grapes. If you take the value judgements out of it, it's a true statement. Heck, I picked Blu-ray (and by extention PS3 over 360) based on studio support. WHat the sour-grapers miss is that the studio support wasn't arbitrary and it wasn't based on who paid the most money-- it was based on what the studios thought they could make the most money *with*. They clearly thougut that was Blu-ray. Even Paramount, who's exclusivity was limited and highly conditional.
polyh3dron
Banned
The consumer DID decide. The sales figures for the whole year of 2007 show as much. The reason there was a big deal about the Paramount thing was because they went AGAINST the market. The spinning from the HD DVD side became so crazy in these forums and it seemed as though the HD DVD PRG was actually getting their spin ideas from these very forums. Standalone sales, attach rates, fuzzy math, obfuscation and what have you.
Now WB makes a decision CLEARLY based on sales data not only comparing sales of their own releases between the formats, but looking at the fact that the more expensive standalone BD players outsold their cheaper HD DVD adversaries in December even with some of the more discerning BD enthusiasts buying PS3s instead due to their largely superior playback capabilities.
How did the consumers, through buying more BD stuff NOT influence this decision?
Now WB makes a decision CLEARLY based on sales data not only comparing sales of their own releases between the formats, but looking at the fact that the more expensive standalone BD players outsold their cheaper HD DVD adversaries in December even with some of the more discerning BD enthusiasts buying PS3s instead due to their largely superior playback capabilities.
How did the consumers, through buying more BD stuff NOT influence this decision?
polyh3dron
Banned
Check out the Dave Matthews Band BD. 24-bit/96khz lossless audio awesomeness.Mr. Banana Grabber said:
plagiarize
Banned
^ agreed.Ignatz Mouse said:
people can whine about which studios chose which platform all they like. Disney and Fox chose blu-ray because of the tighter copy protection more than anything else... figuring they'd lose less money to piracy.
it's all economics.
Universal didn't decide to be HD-DVD exclusive out of the good of their hearts. they thought that was the best thing for their company even though it's turned out to have likely been a mistake.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Is my logic really that flawed? Help me out here someone!
Just thinking about it, it makes even more sense for HD-DVD to run away from CES if rumours about these clauses are true.
If there were no such clauses, I think they would have stood their ground, and you'd hear more forceful defense from the two remaining major studios.
But with Toshiba privately knowing what Warner's departure would mean for the commitment of their other partners, as enshrined in contracts, I'm not at all surprised everyone basically shut up shop on it at CES.
If there were no such clauses, I think they would have stood their ground, and you'd hear more forceful defense from the two remaining major studios.
But with Toshiba privately knowing what Warner's departure would mean for the commitment of their other partners, as enshrined in contracts, I'm not at all surprised everyone basically shut up shop on it at CES.
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