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[Opus Angelorum]

thanks opus.

btw, lovely avatar. mandy = goddess

No problem and indeed

 

[StoOgE]

If universal and paramount switched to blu-ray exclusivity... how soon would they announce hd-dvd death an stop player/media production?

thats what firesales are for. Cheap HDDVDs for me. Probably grab a backup HDXA2 in case this one ever bites the dust.

 

[avaya]

thats what firesales are for. Cheap HDDVDs for me. Probably grab a backup HDXA2 in case this one ever bites the dust.

technically it's a closeout sale

 

[Flo_Evans]

My only worry is universal flipping everyone the bird and just going back to DVD. Not an entirely logical fear but fuck, stranger things have happened.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

thats what firesales are for. Cheap HDDVDs for me. Probably grab a backup HDXA2 in case this one ever bites the dust.

i got a $180 player the other day with 10 free hd dvd's because i needed an upscalling dvd player, so it's a great deal. i plan to use netflix and buy no library cause i support blu-ray(and have no blu-ray player :lol). i started thinking about hddvd dying sooner than later and not being offered in netflix anymore. i anticipated at least a year or two with the war.

 

[captive]

Got 3:10 To Yuma today, my first blu-ray of the new year. I was going to get shoot em up but bastards at best buy didnt have it.
Only went to best buy because i had 90 bucks in reward zone cards. Got a bunch of SACD's too.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Dave Vaughn (the leaker of the Nielsen #s lately), and usually staunch HD-DVD supporter is sorta corroborating the Bill Hunt - Digital Bits stuff. Those 2 are usually like arch-enemies.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973121
(edit: and then the thread was deleted. hah)

The insider forum on avs has been very interesting with Maxpower, Vaughn, & Amir all sounding off. I thought this was particularly interesting regarding triple layer 51Gb HD DVDs:

People here have been questioning the viability of BD50 replication, well I've got news for you, TL51 is a complete and utter failure if you think BD50 bad.

So much so that any company pursuing this avenue is doing so, not for real gain, but for a few headlines in the media.

If you don't believe me, where are the TL45 discs and prototype players we were promised in 2006, and where are the TL51 discs and players that were promised this CES?

TL51 is far from viable and anyone who thinks it is needs their head checked...

Edit: I will happily make a full retraction if I see a TL51 disc make it to the market...

Max and I can agree 100% on this. Even from my inside contacts with the HD DVD group have admitted that the chances that TL51 discs ever saw the light of day was very slim. The studios saw no need for the extra space. Also, the yields would have been VERY poor. I know Amir has stated that they would have been better than BD50's, but I don't think that would have been the case at all.

As for the rumor that Disney was testing it out etc..., that is plain BS as far as I have been able to find out.

 

[polyh3dron]

So basically, TL51 is science fiction. :lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

TL51 has always been as much of a non-issue as HDi. Had it been necessary, movies could come on two discs to fit the extras. Less convenient, but who cares.

 

[chubigans]

Check your PMs captive.

 

[surazal]

My only worry is universal flipping everyone the bird and just going back to DVD. Not an entirely logical fear but fuck, stranger things have happened.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/t...d-sales-drop-can-hollywood-make-a-profit.aspx

There were many reports that DVD sales started dropping in 2007. Warner Bros also mentioned this as one of the reasons for their switch to exclusivity. It is highly unlikely that Universal will let their competitors steal the high def market and stick to DVD.

 

[StoOgE]

So, I've decided to start a charity..

"Gaffers for team red" you give me money, I get a BRD player. Everyone wins!

 

[Snah]

So content drives sales, studios determine content, therefore studios determine sales. Implied in there is that basically studios determine consumer will - is that what you really want to be saying? I'm surprised enough to see it from Ignatz.

I would say that after the Paramount deal, the studio releases this fall were pretty even. So, it's not correct to say that content was what decided the war, since it was practically a stalemate. Universal and Warner going all out for HD-DVD, and then Paramount switched and released the biggest movie of the year.

The Playstation 3 is the only reason Blu-Ray won this entire thing. Without the Playstation 3, 300 wouldn't have outsold the HD-DVD version 2:1. Without the Playstation 3, Blu-Ray would have never recovered from their initial and terrible entry into the market, where HD-DVD had an advantage from the start. HD-DVD already had a pretty good pricing advantage, and the average consumer doesn't care about tech specs. So, ironically, it wasn't software that won it this time, it was hardware. The PS3 was a trojan horse and it worked.

And given all that Sony's invested into the machine, they damn well deserve to win.

 

[chubigans]

And given all that Sony's invested into the machine, they damn well deserve to win.

Indeed.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

All of this talk about sales is really simplistic (including my own "content drifves sales" comment). There's a lot of cause-and-effect cycle going back to before these formats were released. What sales *did* show was that Blu-ray was viable despite a higher price point, and the lower player prices for HD-DVD could not make up for lack of content.

 

[Lord Error]

but you have to admit, losing both WB and Fox would have probably been enough to make Disney think about at least going neutral. Sony would have probably held out longer (which is why BRD was allways the likely candidate for a 1 format future, and HDDVD surviving was a dual format answer)

Most likely yeah, that's what would happen, and that situation would be really bad for BRD, and probably much worse for Sony (because of PS3) than this situation right now is for Toshiba.

 

[Laurent]

In other news... Fox DVDs To Include iTunes Compatible Digital Copies?

Screenshot could be fake, but that fits well with Sony's plan on including a PSP version of certain movies with BRD releases...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

And given all that Sony's invested into the machine, they damn well deserve to win.

Yup. Look at the gaming side, and the talk of whether or not the PS3 will go all Dreamcasty or instead stay at Gamecube levels, and then think about the PS2's sales-- and you'll see what Sony traded for Blu-ray success.

As far as the machine itself-- I love it. I'm a more casual gamer for 3-4 years now, but it's other media functions make it an awesome value, even at the $600 I spent on it.

 

[plagiarize]

I would say that after the Paramount deal, the studio releases this fall were pretty even. So, it's not correct to say that content was what decided the war, since it was practically a stalemate. Universal and Warner going all out for HD-DVD, and then Paramount switched and released the biggest movie of the year.

The Playstation 3 is the only reason Blu-Ray won this entire thing. Without the Playstation 3, 300 wouldn't have outsold the HD-DVD version 2:1. Without the Playstation 3, Blu-Ray would have never recovered from their initial and terrible entry into the market, where HD-DVD had an advantage from the start. HD-DVD already had a pretty good pricing advantage, and the average consumer doesn't care about tech specs. So, ironically, it wasn't software that won it this time, it was hardware. The PS3 was a trojan horse and it worked.

agreed.

And given all that Sony's invested into the machine, they damn well deserve to win.

not agreed. i'm sure Toshiba invested a lot of money into HD-DVD too. i don't care how much money a multi national makes or loses. investment budgets really shouldn't come into it when we talk about 'deserving' to win. that's just going to drag the fanboy arguments back.

 

[Mr. Banana Grabber]

Indeed.

They really do deserve more praise for their tech stuff. The PS3 and the PSP are both together and separately some of the most impressive pieces of hardware and not just among video game consoles.

 

[Xater]

Guys is a 3:10 to Yuma Review out there somewhere? I am really thinking of importing it.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Not to get all tautological, but the company that wins is the company that deserves to win, generally. Sony played it very smart. They used the PS3 trojan horse strategy, and they got more support into their coalition on the hardware, software, and retail fronts.

I don't really care who makes or loses money, but I can appreciate a winning strategy well played.

 

[bill0527]

I still prefer my 360 for gaming, but I really think PS3 will catch up in '08. They have got to shift some concentration to the gaming side.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

This was going to be my new avatar if HD-DVD succeeded:

;_;

 

[Lord Error]

The Playstation 3 is the only reason Blu-Ray won this entire thing. Without the Playstation 3, 300 wouldn't have outsold the HD-DVD version 2:1. Without the Playstation 3, Blu-Ray would have never recovered from their initial and terrible entry into the market, where HD-DVD had an advantage from the start. HD-DVD already had a pretty good pricing advantage, and the average consumer doesn't care about tech specs. So, ironically, it wasn't software that won it this time, it was hardware. The PS3 was a trojan horse and it worked.

Seriously, SEL and Stringer should be kissing Kutaragi's feet after all is said and done. Guy basically had to sabotage his own company for the 'greated good'. Not to mention hardware and software engineers at SCE who did much better job at building hardware and especially software for BD playback than any stand alone player manufacturer at the time did (that includes SEL themselves)

 

[maharg]

The reality is that both sides tried to bring the casual market in as fast as possible, they just took different approaches. Sony used the PS3 to get a guaranteed initial market and Toshiba used low price.

And Sony clearly wanted it more. If Toshiba had wanted to win, we'd have had HD integrated into the 360 (all models) in early-mid 2007. That would have been the all-or-nothing approach as soon as it became clear their gameplan wasn't working.

This'll be a pretty huge lesson for CE companies to learn in future product launches. I imagine we'll see a lot more console tie-ins now.

 

[plagiarize]

Not to get all tautological, but the company that wins is the company that deserves to win, generally. Sony played it very smart. They used the PS3 trojan horse strategy, and they got more support into their coalition on the hardware, software, and retail fronts.

I don't really care who makes or loses money, but I can appreciate a winning strategy well played.

as do i. i was just saying that i don't think a company's investment into anything means it deserves success.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

This was going to be my new avatar if HD-DVD succeeded:

;_;

Where's Chemo? Now we can see those Blue Pac-Man Eyes close.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Seriously, SEL and Stringer should be kissing Kutaragi's feet after all is said and done. Guy basically had to sabotage his own company for the 'greated good'. Not to mention hardware and software engineers at SCE who did much better job at building hardware and especially software for BD playback than any stand alone player manufacturer at the time did (that includes SEL themselves)

They shouldn't start kissing anyones feet just yet. They won the battle but Blu-ray still needs to prove that they can succeed as a format against DVD. They need to show a lot more profits then what we've seen so far.

 

[Snah]

agreed.


not agreed. i'm sure Toshiba invested a lot of money into HD-DVD too. i don't care how much money a multi national makes or loses. investment budgets really shouldn't come into it when we talk about 'deserving' to win. that's just going to drag the fanboy arguments back.

Oh, no doubt Toshiba invested a lot of money into HD-DVDs, but I think it is eclipsed by what Sony had to do with the PS3.

I don't have the figures with me, but Sony has thus far lost billions of dollars the past two years, so much so that it completely wipes out any profits they made from their Playstation 2 years. So, their PS3 investment cannot simply be looked at strictly in terms of dollars; they also launched a year later and at a much higher cost due to blu-ray, which effectively sacrificed their gaming division for the short-term, and if blu-ray didn't ban out, could have completely sacrificed it for the long-term as well. Had Blu-Ray folded, they would have not only lost the gaming front, but also the media front, and that would be a very huge blow to Sony.

With the death of HD-DVD, it certainly hurts Toshiba, but nowhere near what it would hurt Sony had Blu-Ray folded.

 

[Cheesemeister]

The fallout of all this is, does Sony now block MS and Nintendo from having BR drives in their next-gen systems? Do we see them stuck with DVD or even HD-DVD game discs and no hi-def movie playback from physical media?

 

[VanMardigan]

Weren't Warner and Paramount HD DVD exclusive until Sony promised to stick a Blu Ray player into their Ps3? I think everyone assumed that was the game changer right there, even if we couldn't guess what it would do to the Playstation business (at least short term).

Like I said when this thing broke out, my Ps3 purchase is now validated. Because as a games machine and media extender, I still highly favor my X360. But as my dvd/HD disc player, it's going to get a lot of use this year.

Where's Chemo? Now we can see those Blue Pac-Man Eyes close.

Speaking of: As a sign that it's time to move on and unify behind Blu Ray, I've taken chemo and captive off my ignore list. Not that they care, but I can't see myself having the heated exchanges we've had in the past.

I wish we could all just transition to the HD movie thread, but that thread has sunk. Bump it mousey.

 

[Lord Error]

They shouldn't start kissing anyones feet just yet. They won the battle but Blu-ray still needs to prove that they can succeed as a format against DVD. They need to show a lot more profits then what we've seen so far.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that, but my point was just that Kutaragi basically sabotaged his own SCE for the greater good of Sony. If it wasn't for that, BRD would probably just have failed outright.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

The fallout of all this is, does Sony now block MS and Nintendo from having BR drives in their next-gen systems? Do we see them stuck with DVD or even HD-DVD game discs and no hi-def movie playback from physical media?

It's not Sony's decision! Blu-Ray belongs to the BDA which is many other companies besides Sony.

HD-DVD was far more Toshiba's and Microsoft's format than BD was ever Sony's.

 

[border]

The fallout of all this is, does Sony now block MS and Nintendo from having BR drives in their next-gen systems?

I doubt they could, even if they wanted to.

Also, :lol @ "BluRay drive in Nintendo system".

 

[dabig2]

The reality is that both sides tried to bring the casual market in as fast as possible, they just took different approaches. Sony used the PS3 to get a guaranteed initial market and Toshiba used low price.

And Sony clearly wanted it more. If Toshiba had wanted to win, we'd have had HD integrated into the 360 (all models) in early-mid 2007. That would have been the all-or-nothing approach as soon as it became clear their gameplan wasn't working.

This'll be a pretty huge lesson for CE companies to learn in future product launches. I imagine we'll see a lot more console tie-ins now.

Definitely correct. Hell, we already know that Microsoft will be heavily pushing their own HD downloadable service vision in the 360 and their next console, whatever that may be.

Speaking of which, pic and caption stolen from the blu-ray forums :lol

"Tosh………
'But you promised you would marry me and it turned
out to be a one night stand.'

Software Company……..
'Wam, Bam………Thank You Mam…..It’s been swell but,
marry into a family with packaged goods?,…… sorry you
got the wrong impression'." - Penton-Man

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The fallout of all this is, does Sony now block MS and Nintendo from having BR drives in their next-gen systems? Do we see them stuck with DVD or even HD-DVD game discs and no hi-def movie playback from physical media?

I sincerely doubt Sony could do that (or would want to). Blu-ray isn't all Sony, you know.

 

[Snah]

The fallout of all this is, does Sony now block MS and Nintendo from having BR drives in their next-gen systems? Do we see them stuck with DVD or even HD-DVD game discs and no hi-def movie playback from physical media?

I don't think Sony is in a position to block MS or Nintendo from including BR drives in their systems, and why would they?

 

[plagiarize]

The fallout of all this is, does Sony now block MS and Nintendo from having BR drives in their next-gen systems? Do we see them stuck with DVD or even HD-DVD game discs and no hi-def movie playback from physical media?

i don't think they can. i mean after all, MS get royalties from Blu-Ray licensing fees. the only thing that would stop MS using blu-ray in a future console would be hubris on the part of MS.

 

[Chemo]

Where's Chemo? Now we can see those Blue Pac-Man Eyes close.

Like this?

 

[SolidSnakex]

I sincerely doubt Sony could do that (or would want to). Blu-ray isn't all Sony, you know.

And more than that, why would they want to stop either of them? The more companies that use BR the better for them.

 

[SUPREME1]

So, basically what is being said is that the TL51 will save HD DVD..?


YEAH BABY, YEAH!!!

HD DVD FTW!!!!

THE FUTURE IS NOW BROWN COW!!!!!

 

[chubigans]

I don't think Sony is in a position to block MS or Nintendo from including BR drives in their systems, and why would they?

Exactly. Sony would love it if the Wii sold that kind of stock with a BD drive in each system. At the very least, they're making money off the drives.

 

[mckmas8808]

Seriously, SEL and Stringer should be kissing Kutaragi's feet after all is said and done. Guy basically had to sabotage his own company for the 'greated good'. Not to mention hardware and software engineers at SCE who did much better job at building hardware and especially software for BD playback than any stand alone player manufacturer at the time did (that includes SEL themselves)

Who or what is SEL?

 

[plagiarize]

So, basically what is being said is that the TL51 will save HD DVD..?


YEAH BABY, YEAH!!!

HD DVD FTW!!!!

THE FUTURE IS NOW BROWN COW!!!!!

the only thing i took from that post was the part about studios saying that 51 gigs was unnecessary. something i've been saying for ages. doesn't matter now though.

 

[Cheesemeister]

I don't think Sony is in a position to block MS or Nintendo from including BR drives in their systems, and why would they?

Why would Sony want to stop them from using BR drives? To wipe out the competition with the PS4. If it's the only system with a high-capacity drive, the 720 and WiiHD would be crippled in comparison.

 

[SUPREME1]

The fallout of all this is, does Sony now block MS and Nintendo from having BR drives in their next-gen systems? Do we see them stuck with DVD or even HD-DVD game discs and no hi-def movie playback from physical media?

As long as Nintendo and M$ are willing to pay royalties/licensing... You can't deny them.

Monopoly and what not/

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Like this?

Thank you, sir! I always loved the Blue Pac-Man Eyes avatar. I missed it when you reverted.

 

[Lord Error]

Who or what is SEL?

Sony Electronics.

 

[mckmas8808]

This'll be a pretty huge lesson for CE companies to learn in future product launches. I imagine we'll see a lot more console tie-ins now.

Nope, because that very tie-in is what's going to be the cause of the PS3 to be in last place in 4 more years. Too risky console wise.