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[Xater]

I'm still :lol at the megapost of Snah.

 

[polyh3dron]

lol Snah

That was awesome.

His name is Ken Graffeo tho.

Krazy Ken Graffeo.

 

[Frankfurter]

Lots of stuff

Chill out dude. You are taking this way too serious.

 

[Zaptruder]

Chill out dude. You are taking this way too serious.

It's just frustrating to see fanboys like Ken Graffeo sitting around throwing up poor justification after poor justification, sticking with HD-DVD.

That shit affects all the movie watching public.

Look Ken. Just come out straight; you want cash monies to end this war, or you're a massive fucking goon of a fanboy/haterader and deserve a floggin'.

Single format destiny. So close. So far still!

 

[mosaic]

So, anyone heard anything about "They Live" coming to Blu?

I've come to kick ass and chew bubblegum in Hi-Def... and I'm all out of bubblegum.

 

[VanMardigan]

NO PS3 or 360 Add on. HD DVD loves to talk about "standalones"? Look at the numbers BEFORE the Warner announcement.

I think the HD DVD add-on should be counted. But still, it's obvious that the consumer chose Blu Ray. There is really no point in arguing that. When you take into account the price difference, the fact that the Tosh players couldn't outsell the BD players is extremely significant.

 

[purnoman3000]

Have you ever heard of the term HTIB?

It applies to the majority of the population (aka: reality), not enthusiasts like everyone posting in this forum.

Also, enthusiasts can be poor too (see HD-DVD).

For some reason, this made me laugh very hard.

Anyways, just to let you guys know, at least here in Canada, none of the Best Buy stores have any HD-DVD players either on order from Toshiba or in the main distribution warehouse. Obviously, having no stock is usually indicative of a model on its way out (clearance) but seeing as Toshiba has yet to announce new hardware models, you better buy them now if you really want one as it seems to be only store stock that remains. However, it is also possible that having none on order is simply due to the large number unsold/returned sitting in stores. I guess we will see in the near future if this is a move into Blu exclusivity.

 

[kaching]

Could they throw the guy anymore softballs?

"Warner backstabbed you!!!111"
"When will consumers have a voice??"

It's been fascinating to watch how the tech press has largely decided to make a martyr out of HDDVD.

 

[xS1TH L0RDx]

Snah, that post was fucking EPIC.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Jesus what questions.





*smacks head*

I assume those were given to him to ask.

 

[theBishop]

With the writer's strike and DVD sales on the decline, Universal and Paramount are going to have to wake up soon.

The Warner announcement ended this war. Retailers and the media are picking up the pieces and IDing the bodies. Every day Universal and Paramount aren't releasing on Blu-Ray is just more revenue they've shut themselves out of. It has no strategic advantage.

The relevant sect of the population knows the war is over. At this point, its up to the BDA to advertise and work with retailers to get the hardware in people's homes.

 

[acabado]

NO PS3 or 360 Add on. HD DVD loves to talk about "standalones"? Look at the numbers BEFORE the Warner announcement.

Yup, if they count the PS3 as a BD player the previous week wouldn't be so balanced.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

the first winners of the Amazon Blu-Ray/HD-DVD contests are up. Did you win?

 

[BoboBrazil]

Betanews has always been really pro hd-dvd. They'll post negative article after negative article about blu-ray, and nothing bad about hd-dvd...I still don't get why alot of these tech sites are so anti blu-ray and pro hd-dvd...And Universal is probably just keeping strong in supporting hd-dvd right now because they want to get rid of all their stock. If they come out any other way, noone will buy all the movies they manufactured...

 

[StoOgE]

the first winners of the Amazon Blu-Ray/HD-DVD contests are up. Did you win?

No, but some punk in Austin allready won. With my luck I'll win the HDDVD prize pack. :lol

 

[Keen]

My head is bleeding from reading just three pages from that forum. How the hell can people get that worked up over fucking hd-formats???

I mean, one guy even claimed moral superiority over people who bought sony equipment! :lol Holy fuck!

It's like two kids bickering over whose dad can beat up the other's

 

[Raistlin]

My head is bleeding from reading just three pages from that forum. How the hell can people get that worked up over fucking hd-formats???

I mean, one guy even claimed moral superiority over people who bought sony equipment! :lol Holy fuck!

It's like two kids bickering over whose dad can beat up the other's

Its great how deluded they are ... if one actually wanted to take it to that level, BD has the moral superiority over HD-DVD (and actually for the reasons they typically cite for being against Sony).

But who the hell wants to take it to that level?

 

[KZObsessed]

:lol @ Snah's post. That was epic.

"Toshiba, what are you doing?" and we didn't have any answers.

-Ken Graffeo, Universal/HD-DVD

^^ Best quote ever! :lol

 

[Mrbob]

Read between the lines of Ken's comments.

He specifically mentions how Warner isn't going BRD exclusive until the end of May. Combined with the fact that the Warner announcment caught everyone off guard, it gives them time to implement their blu ray plans and join Warner on the blu side June 1, 2008.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Neither side has any moral superiority whatsoever.

 

[Raistlin]

Neither side has any moral superiority whatsoever.

I disagree.

Many feel Tosh should have never pushed a format war, especially based on how the DVD agreement happened in the past.

And certainly now, it makes 0 sense for Tosh to be doing what they are doing.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I disagree.

Many feel Tosh should have never pushed a format war, especially based on how the DVD agreement happened in the past.

And certainly now, it makes 0 sense for Tosh to be doing what they are doing.

We have no evidence that Sony or others wouldn't have acted the same under the circumstances. We know that both companies engage in practices to their own benefit.

It's dangerous to assume any of the parties involved has not edge on benevolence.

 

[Battlezone]

My head is bleeding from reading just three pages from that forum. How the hell can people get that worked up over fucking hd-formats???

Wasn't there a guy on the "blu" side that printed flyers, got up early, stood in line at Walmart, handed out said flyers, tried to convert people to buying Blu-Ray, and then when like one person did, got on the Internet and crowed about it, to a massive ovation from like-minded supporters?

Or am I just imagining that?

 

[jjasper]

Wasn't there a guy on the "blu" side that printed flyers, got up early, stood in line at Walmart, handed out said flyers, tried to convert people to buying Blu-Ray, and then when like one person did, got on the Internet and crowed about it, to a massive ovation from like-minded supporters?

Or am I just imagining that?

Did he try to prevent people from buying the $99 player? If so he was doing the American people a great service:lol

 

[dallow_bg]

I disagree.

Many feel Tosh should have never pushed a format war, especially based on how the DVD agreement happened in the past.

And certainly now, it makes 0 sense for Tosh to be doing what they are doing.

Can you explain that a little more? I'm interested.

Also, what's broken about the 3rd gen HD DVD deinterlacing exactly?

 

[VanMardigan]

Wasn't there a guy on the "blu" side that printed flyers, got up early, stood in line at Walmart, handed out said flyers, tried to convert people to buying Blu-Ray, and then when like one person did, got on the Internet and crowed about it, to a massive ovation from like-minded supporters?

Or am I just imagining that?

Yep, it happened. Both sides have inane fanboys, and this outcry from the HD DVD folks would've been mirrored had Warner

Spoiler

and fox

gone red. It was expected. Most folks will move on and get themselves a BD player (Ps3 hopefully), while a few fanatical folks will continue to make themselves look like asses.

Can you explain that a little more? I'm interested.

Also, what's broken about the 3rd gen HD DVD deinterlacing exactly?

Sony conceded a lot of patents/rights/technology on a format they were working on because they realized that a consensus had been reached on the rival format, paving the way for DVD. Some folks feel like Toshiba should've done the same considering that Sony/Matsushita had the industry/studio support this time around. It seemed like it was going to happen, but negotiations between the BD and HD DVD camp fell apart.

About the 3rd gen players, the A30's 1080p isn't very good. Not sure about the A35, but it's probably as bad. If you're not running 1080p/24 on them, you may want to run them in 1080i and let your tv do the deinterlacing.

 

[maharg]

I disagree.

Many feel Tosh should have never pushed a format war, especially based on how the DVD agreement happened in the past.

And certainly now, it makes 0 sense for Tosh to be doing what they are doing.

And Sony should have pushed a format war? Just because they won doesn't mean they should have done it in the first place. There was a time, before anyone was really sure they'd put BD into the PS3, when things looked a lot more likely to go the other way. Was Sony the bad guy then?

It takes two to tango.

 

[ManaByte]

And Sony should have pushed a format war? Just because they won doesn't mean they should have done it in the first place. There was a time, before anyone was really sure they'd put BD into the PS3, when things looked a lot more likely to go the other way. Was Sony the bad guy then?

It takes two to tango.

Please, it's Raistlin you're responding to. Of course Sony should have pushed the format war.

Putting HD movies into game consoles is the worst thing to ever happen to the home video industry. It brought gaming forum fanboy bickering into it.

 

[Forsete]

Wasn't there a guy on the "blu" side that printed flyers, got up early, stood in line at Walmart, handed out said flyers, tried to convert people to buying Blu-Ray, and then when like one person did, got on the Internet and crowed about it, to a massive ovation from like-minded supporters?

Or am I just imagining that?

IIRC it was a HD-DVD supporter.
But I remember people doing this for Blu-ray also, during the 99USD player thingy.

 

[Raistlin]

We have no evidence that Sony or others wouldn't have acted the same under the circumstances. We know that both companies engage in practices to their own benefit.

While certainly we don't know ... Sony was in a somewhat similar position for DVD ... and did in fact concede.

Can you explain that a little more? I'm interested.

Also, what's broken about the 3rd gen HD DVD deinterlacing exactly?

Look up the history of DVD's creation. Beyond that, there really is no excuse for what Toshiba is doing right now.


As to the gen 3 deinterlacing ... it fails many(most?) deinterlacing tests. Due to this, its 720p, 1080p, and 1080p24 is crap compared to a number of cheaper upconverters (granted, there really aren't any that do 1080p24 - but if its gimped, its hardly a feature). If you have a CRT HDTV (1080i), then you're fine. Overwise, I wouldn't recommend it as an upconverter.

 

[VanMardigan]

There was a time, before anyone was really sure they'd put BD into the PS3, when things looked a lot more likely to go the other way. Was Sony the bad guy then?

It takes two to tango.

Paramount/Universal/Warner were all exclusive to HD DVD before Sony made the decision to put a BD player into the Ps3. Even then, Blu Ray had the CE support. It wouldn't have been enough to win this war without the Ps3, but I'd say that Sony/Matsushita definitely had a bigger consensus behind their format than Toshiba ever did.

 

[Raistlin]

And Sony should have pushed a format war? Just because they won doesn't mean they should have done it in the first place. There was a time, before anyone was really sure they'd put BD into the PS3, when things looked a lot more likely to go the other way. Was Sony the bad guy then?

It takes two to tango.

Before either launched, BD had more studio support, and basically all CE support.

It was a situation similar to DVD (in reverse).

 

[Jim]

Warner Extends HD DVD Release Delay to Catalog Titles

Basically doing whatever they can, within bounds of their contract, to avoid shipping anything it seems.

And FU Amazon for excluding NY in that contest.

 

[Raistlin]

Please, it's Raistlin you're responding to. Of course Sony should have pushed the format war.

:lol

I'm going by history. The situation was pretty close to a repeat of DVD, in reverse ... only the concession never occurred




As for Sony loving ... just so you know, I don't even game much anymore. I'm really not involved in that format war beyond shits and giggles.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

"Hey guys, there's a dead horse over here! Let's beat up on it!"

 

[VanMardigan]

"Hey guys, there's a dead horse over here! Let's beat up on it!"

Welcome to the thread!!


:lol

 

[VictimOfGrief]

"Hey guys, there's a dead horse over here! Let's beat up on it!"

I'm not done beating it yet! :lol

 

[BoboBrazil]

Toshiba really needs to stop misleading the customers. Toshiba hardware is pretty bad too. I've had every model hd-dvd player at my work and all of them just randomly freeze and give some weird error during movies. You can't restart the movie from the same point either...Working with electronics, Toshiba makes some of the worst products of any major brand name.

 

[avaya]

Toshiba had every right to push ahead with their format.

They shouldn't have though since it was always a losing proposition. They failed to agree with Matsushita, Philips and Sony at the discussion table in May/June 2005 because Toshiba didn't want to go with the 0.1mm structure....they wanted BD software with HD-DVD disc structure: This left the BDA with the same royalty pool structure that existed with DVD. No incentive for BDA companies to comply.

Toshiba's PR excuse peddled by Amir ad nauseum is that Matsushita wouldn't show them evidence that 0.1mm would work (for BD50). BD-50 was science fiction. This is such a bullshit excuse.

Business Week commented that it was the ego of the chief DVD architect at Toshiba (whose name escapes me) that didn't want to concede on disc structure since it was his creation. One man's ego destroyed the whole thing.

Looking at it from Toshiba's side, if they conceded disc structure they get only minor revenues from the adoption of HD-DVD software spec. There was no incentive to go for it on their side.

However in terms of ethics when they found themselves so obviously mismatched on an intra-industry scale they should have conceded before it began.

Maybe the only good thing to come out of this is that 2 lesson's have been learned:

1. Don't pick the opposite side from a Matsushita coalition.
This is the 2nd time Toshiba ended up the loser, they were the only supporter of Sony in Beta. Toshiba was actually aware of crossing paths with Panasonic till Microsoft started whispering in their ear...this leads to the second lesson...

2. Don't trust Microsoft
Microsoft didn't get to the top playing it by the book. Divide and conquer, subterfuge and forced acquisitions are part of their ruthless business strategy. Microsoft is one of the best companies in the world to work for due to this reason. Frankly 'tis fucking wondrous how they go about their business.

 

[Raistlin]

If you keep on beating a dead horse ... eventually it'll twitch :lol

Toshiba really needs to stop misleading the customers.

That is my major objection with their current moves (beyond failing to just end it outright)

Toshiba hardware is pretty bad too. I've had every model hd-dvd player at my work and all of them just randomly freeze and give some weird error during movies. You can't restart the movie from the same point either...Working with electronics, Toshiba makes some of the worst products of any major brand name.

They've historically made some pretty nice TV's at their pricepoint.

 

[Raistlin]

Toshiba had every right to push ahead with their format.

They shouldn't have though since it was always a losing proposition. They failed to agree with Matsushita, Philips and Sony at the discussion table in May/June 2005 because Toshiba didn't want to go with the 0.1mm structure....they wanted BD software with HD-DVD disc structure: This left the BDA with the same royalty pool structure that existed with DVD. No incentive for BDA companies to comply.

Toshiba's PR excuse peddled by Amir ad nauseum is that Matsushita wouldn't show them evidence that 0.1mm would work (for BD50). BD-50 was science fiction. This is such a bullshit excuse.

Business Week commented that it was the ego of the chief DVD architect at Toshiba (whose name escapes me) that didn't want to concede on disc structure since it was his creation. One man's ego destroyed the whole thing.

Looking at it from Toshiba's side, if they conceded disc structure they get only minor revenues from the adoption of HD-DVD software spec. There was no incentive to go for it on their side.

However in terms of ethics when they found themselves so obviously mismatched on an intra-industry scale they should have conceded before it began.

Maybe the only good thing to come out of this is that 2 lesson's have been learned:

1. Don't pick the opposite side from a Matsushita coalition.
This is the 2nd time Toshiba ended up the loser, they were the only supporter of Sony in Beta. Toshiba was actually aware of crossing paths with Panasonic till Microsoft started whispering in their ear...this leads to the second lesson...

2. Don't trust Microsoft
Microsoft didn't get to the top playing it by the book. Divide and conquer, subterfuge and forced acquisitions are part of their ruthless business strategy. Microsoft is one of the best companies in the world to work for due to this reason. Frankly 'tis fucking wondrous how they go about their business.

.

 

[BoboBrazil]

If you keep on beating a dead horse ... eventually it'll twitch :lol






That is my major objection with their current moves (beyond failing to just end it outright)




They've historically made some pretty nice TV's at their pricepoint.

Working in electronics their tvs and av equipment have the most breakdowns and service issues of any name brand. Their picture quality on their tvs are also not as good as lg, sony, or samsung...

 

[kaching]

You can go even further back in this saga to when HDDVD was initially introduced by Toshiba and NEC as AOD, which was still *after* Sony, Matsushita et. al. had announced Blu-ray and an industry association around it.

 

[Raistlin]

Working in electronics their tvs and av equipment have the most breakdowns and service issues of any name brand. Their picture quality on their tvs are also not as good as lg, sony, or samsung...

I haven't paid attention to their breakdown reports (and am not entirely surprised to hear this) ... as to picture quality, it matters the line.


For example, their CRT RPTVs (HD) were VERY good at their pricepoint. Quite a popular series.

Unfortunately, the have lagged in their transition to flat panels. For example, their Regza 1080p line was probably the last of the major CE's to have 1080p inputs. Initially, they were 1080i ... and the deinterlacing sucked too

 

[BojTrek]

I want to post with happy news...

Monsters Inc. (DVD) looks incredible up-converted from PS3 to my Sony 40" BRAVIA XBR 1080p KDL-40XBR4

Holy Crap! It looks almost Blu-Ray... I was really impressed...

I am going to throw in Star Wars or The Incredibles to see how they look up-converted...

I am still very happy with my TV purchase and PS3 purchase as my Blu-Ray player and main DVD player... WOW!

Oh... and hey Ignatz... how were those Police tickets?

 

[gcubed]

100% antecdotal crap...

I got a call from my 57 year old father asking what type of movies the ps3 played. Curiously i answered, bluray. "Oh good, just checking, i heard that bluray is going to win, wanted to make sure you knew."

So apparently the media is doing a good job proclaiming bluray winning as my dad, who doesnt follow it one bit thought bluray "won"

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I want to post with happy news...

Monsters Inc. (DVD) looks incredible up-converted from PS3 to my Sony 40" BRAVIA XBR 1080p KDL-40XBR4

Holy Crap! It looks almost Blu-Ray... I was really impressed...

I am going to throw in Star Wars or The Incredibles to see how they look up-converted...

I am still very happy with my TV purchase and PS3 purchase as my Blu-Ray player and main DVD player... WOW!

Oh... and hey Ignatz... how were those Police tickets?

Awesome. They were very good seats. I lot of people put down the concert, but I thought it was just great, given Sting's voice isn't what it used to be.

 

[xemumanic]

Toshiba had every right to push ahead with their format.

They shouldn't have though since it was always a losing proposition. They failed to agree with Matsushita, Philips and Sony at the discussion table in May/June 2005 because Toshiba didn't want to go with the 0.1mm structure....they wanted BD software with HD-DVD disc structure: This left the BDA with the same royalty pool structure that existed with DVD. No incentive for BDA companies to comply.

Toshiba's PR excuse peddled by Amir ad nauseum is that Matsushita wouldn't show them evidence that 0.1mm would work (for BD50). BD-50 was science fiction. This is such a bullshit excuse.

Business Week commented that it was the ego of the chief DVD architect at Toshiba (whose name escapes me) that didn't want to concede on disc structure since it was his creation. One man's ego destroyed the whole thing.

Looking at it from Toshiba's side, if they conceded disc structure they get only minor revenues from the adoption of HD-DVD software spec. There was no incentive to go for it on their side.

However in terms of ethics when they found themselves so obviously mismatched on an intra-industry scale they should have conceded before it began.

Maybe the only good thing to come out of this is that 2 lesson's have been learned:

1. Don't pick the opposite side from a Matsushita coalition.
This is the 2nd time Toshiba ended up the loser, they were the only supporter of Sony in Beta. Toshiba was actually aware of crossing paths with Panasonic till Microsoft started whispering in their ear...this leads to the second lesson...

2. Don't trust Microsoft
Microsoft didn't get to the top playing it by the book. Divide and conquer, subterfuge and forced acquisitions are part of their ruthless business strategy. Microsoft is one of the best companies in the world to work for due to this reason. Frankly 'tis fucking wondrous how they go about their business.

Very well stated. Say what you will about Sony, but it was Toshiba and Microsoft who started the format war to begin with. Sony was actually working with the industry.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

But Sony is evil! They killed Sega and slowed down Nintendo! They ruined videoagmes!

 

[polyh3dron]

Very well stated. Say what you will about Sony, but it was Toshiba and Microsoft who started the format war to begin with. Sony was actually working with the industry.

bu bu bu bu bu DVD Forum called HD DVD the official successor lolz