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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
- Thread starter HyperionX
- Start date
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VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
Keep fighting the good
console war
Rabid Wolverine
Member
shintoki said:
Outstanding price
Ordered it even though I dont have a Region 1 Blu-Ray player.
This will change soon.
S
Shepherd
Unconfirmed Member
shintoki said:
Thank you so much. Just ordered it and will be here tomorrow.
VanMardigan said:
Has nothing to do with fighting the console war fight; it's a reality. There were a massive number of 360 add ons sold in the US. Many people only jumped into HD-DVD because of it.
If HD-DVD hadn't had the 360 add on, and was competing against the PS3 with Blu-Ray in the US, the numbers wouldn't have even been anywhere near as close as they were...it would have been 85:15 throughout most of 2007, if not worse.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
Blu-ray hardware accounted for 83% of revenues.
Blu-ray Disc - 16,496 units
HD-DVD - 8,639 units
Blu-ray Disc - $6,033,540
HD-DVD - $1,182,248
Average BD SAL: $365
Average HD-DVD SAL: $136
avaya said:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
Blu-ray hardware accounted for 83% of revenues.
Blu-ray Disc - 16,496 units
HD-DVD - 8,639 units
Blu-ray Disc - $6,033,540
HD-DVD - $1,182,248
Average BD SAL: $365
Average HD-DVD SAL: $136
What's the reason for the bump this week?
I haven't been keeping up with the Nicodimas FUD, but are there any HD-DVD deals going on or something.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
And if the Ps3 didn't play Blu Ray movies, it would've been a massacre and HD DVD would be winning by that same margin. It doesn't take armchair analysts like yourself to put out obvious scenarios. What's the point of posturing your hypothesis other than pointing out your console war battle cry about Ps3 doing well in Europe and Japan?
What were Blu Ray's hardware numbers for week 2 again? I know HD DVD went from 1k sold to 8k sold, but what did BD sell the previous week in terms of total units?
VanMardigan said:
Of course if PS3 didn't have Blu-Ray, it would have been over from the start, I'm not denying that.
However, he asked why there was such a disparity, my answer is that the console wars played an important impact on both sides. NA is the 360's strongest region of support and certainly that's where the most success was seen with the 360 add on.
Japan is Microsoft's weakest region, and HD-DVD was dead from the start there. In Europe, Sony is a lot stronger and many folks were waiting for Blu-Ray and were not going to buy the add on.
Deny it all you want, but it's the truth.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
While we agree that the console market had to do with sales, the bigger problem in Europe (for both formats) was (is) price. HD DVD was never able to drop their standalone prices to the same degree that they did in NA. That, combined with the Ps3, was enough to dominate what is still a VERY SMALL market. It had nothing to do with xbox.
They're still too damn expensive and the reasonably priced ones lack functionality.
VanMardigan said:
Price doesn't even begin to answer the question about why Blu-Ray did so much better than HD-DVD in Europe. Sorry. That entire response is a red herring. To say it has nothing to do with Xbox is misleading. While we don't have accurate add-on sales for Europe, the % adoption in terms of add ons per installed base is probably much smaller in Europe than NA...and, I believe the price of the addon over there was just as cheap.
I believe the 360 add on sold like 300k for the month of December. That's a pretty damn large amount, and certainly I believe the 360 add on was the only thing keeping HD-DVD in this race, even if it was only for 30% marketshare.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
I'm pretty sure you're WAY off. Isn't that like the LTD for the add-on?
Wouldn't the more obvious reason be that the promotions with the free BD player ended in some stores? Isn't that what NPD was saying caused the higher than normal numbers?
VanMardigan said:
I could be wrong, but I thought the december NPD had it at around 300k if I'm not mistaken.
Edit: looks like you're right.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...D:_XBox_360_HD_DVD_Player_Sales_Hit_269K/1266
Still, reading that article, ~300k out of 750k total is a SUBSTANTIAL amount...which was my whole point. One of the main reasons HD-DVD was more popular over here was due to the add-on, which certainly contributed a whole lot to the HD-DVD userbase.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
Great, now you can edit your hypothesis so that we don't have to read your console war crap in this thread.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
I don't disagree that they did, it's the impact. For example, in Europe, the standalone HD DVD prices remained high, and for the longest time they didn't even have the 5 free movie promotion that started in March in the US. Even now, there is no equivalent to the $149 HD A3 in terms of price in Europe. I think that's a MUCH BIGGER factor in Europe than the sales of Xbox vs. Ps3. You can't just apply one market's logic to another.
And it's laughable how you were COMPLETELY WRONG about the add-on sales, yet your console war hypothesis never took a hit. :lol
VanMardigan said:
I'm not suggesting that this didn't play an impact either, but I disagree when you say it was a much bigger factor. I'm sure HD-DVD was still priced relatively competitively with Blu-Ray in that region.
But, I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
VanMardigan said:
Because the add-on sales figure doesn't change my argument. My argument was that add-on sales of the 360 in NA were a huge part of the installed base. I was wrong about how many were sold in december, but that article only justified my point when it claimed that ~300k of the 750k total players were due to the 360 add-on.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
So, bear with me as I use your own console war hypothesis to disprove your claim:
IF HD DVD had managed to move 450,000 standalone units in Europe like they did in the US (through aggressive price cutting and free movie promotions), then HD DVD would be doing BETTER in Europe than they are even doing in the US, considering how small that market is right now. So, again, the console war factor you're trying to inflict repeatedly upon this thread is really a non-issue, and definitely does not deserve the constant mention of xbox. While Ps3 was a major reason for Blu Ray's success, HD DVD's sales are not as inextricably linked to xbox, thus it is unnecessary for you to keep bringing up xbox console sales in EU and Japan.
VanMardigan said:
Let me stop you right there.
This is a huge assumption on your part. Aggressive pricing in Europe more than likely would not have amounted to the number of sales that stand alone players in the US saw. This is due to a number of reasons, one of which being that HDTV adoption in europe is still in its infancy and is much less along than it is here in the US.
As you even stated -- the market for HDM in general in Europe is currently much smaller than it is in the US (even with the PS3 selling so well over there, HDM disc sales have to be much lower than the US, despite the installed bases not being too far off), so I find the premise of this hypothetical -- that HD-DVD would have sold 450,000 in Europe if it had equal pricing -- to be completely unfounded.
But, I'm done discussing this issue. There's no way to say definitively anyhow.
The latest NPD numbers shows HD DVD gaining back some of the lost market share in the week ending January 19th.
As we reported yesterday Blu-ray owned week 2 with 92.53% market share according to numbers from NPD.
The numbers from week 3 (ending January 19th) had HD DVD gaining some the lost ground back. HD DVD had 34.37% against 65.63% on the Blu-ray side.
Lastly, Stephen Baker, vice president of the NPD, has said that to base sales trend on weekly sales is very uncertain. Please interpret them accordingly.
Also, NPD figures do not include sale from online giant Amazon.com.
As we reported yesterday Blu-ray owned week 2 with 92.53% market share according to numbers from NPD.
The numbers from week 3 (ending January 19th) had HD DVD gaining some the lost ground back. HD DVD had 34.37% against 65.63% on the Blu-ray side.
Lastly, Stephen Baker, vice president of the NPD, has said that to base sales trend on weekly sales is very uncertain. Please interpret them accordingly.
Also, NPD figures do not include sale from online giant Amazon.com.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Snah said:
I was just using the leftover numbers from the US that you posted. Even if you cut that number in half, the point still stands. Remember, we're talking about a ~99 Euro player with two movies packed in and five free movies by mail---by September of last year. There is nothing even remotely close to that there, and there never was.
THAT is the bigger factor in terms of HD DVD sales lagging in Europe worse than North America, not the xbox sales. You really can't miss that point, unless you deliberately attempt to in order to bring console war fanboyism (or more of it I should say) to this thread.
VanMardigan said:
Seriously, you're trying to label him as some console war fanboy, but you're coming across as worse, if not more so, than you think he is.
Do you think insulting him and trying to 'expose him' is going to gain you any high marks? It's pretty clear you also have an agenda.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'm really not sure what the underlying point of the Snah/Van argument is, anyway. Is it sbout which format is more "worthy" or something?
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
It's about the bigger factor in HD DVD sales in Europe/Japan. I say it's the lack of low-cost standalones and offers comparable to the US where HD DVD standalone sales were MUCH higher. He says it's the lower xbox sales.
It's a combination of both, for sure, but the xbox sales is just not nearly as important a factor for HD DVD in Europe as the lack of a low cost standalone alternative like we had in the US, keeping software ratios at 65/35 until the Warner announcement.
Somnia said:
Why would it be weird to ask about quite possibly the best movie ever made? Yes I think Warner had it on some release list at some point.
And I almost bought Lost yesterday, thank god I waited till today. I still don't have my new PS3 (waiting to see how the sku thing shakes down) but it is just too good a deal to pass up.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I have a feeling that whenever Netflix gets around to sending me the LOST season 3 discs, that I'll fall in love with the series and regret not taking advantage of this. Still, I can't justify a blind buy, since it seems like a love it/hate it series.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Costanza said:
Oh.....
Guess I'll just put season 1 dvd on my queue, then. I had just read so much stuff about how awesome it looked, I was hoping I could just jump in with the BD version.
Yeah, the PQ is the best I've seen in HD period and it's probably my favorite season of TV ever too, but it'll really be a much better payoff if you work through the first 2 beforehand because it's such a great show.VanMardigan said:
ahhhhh I can't wait 2 more days for season 4
Grr. I picked up Planet Earth on blu-ray on Sunday, sat down last night to watch the second disc (got through the first on Sunday), and low and behold.. DISC 2 is a DVD..
I'm going tonight to get it replaced, but goddamn it's annoying... all the other discs are bluray, but they must have fucked it up in the factory.
I'm going tonight to get it replaced, but goddamn it's annoying... all the other discs are bluray, but they must have fucked it up in the factory.
Circle Jerk
Member
No Country for Old Men is blu ray exclusive as Disney has the rights to it, not PV.shintoki said:
Nicodimas said:
you make a good point - weekly sales figures are no way to judge how things are going. How about using some kind of statistical modelling - for example the 52 weeks last year where bluray software sales outpaced HDDVD significantly - is that enough for a trend?
Nicodimas said:
You misspelled "Wal-mart"
I am pretty sure that NPD includes Amazon.com - I saw that Betanews
lol :lol :lol ) had distorted the article they were sourcing and claimed that Amazon wasn't represented in the NPD numbers.If nothing else I would find it odd that Amazon numbers are not represented in the CE numbers, but as far as I know, they are represented in the video games sales numbers, no?
Edit: For your reference, compare
http://www.twice.com/article/ca6524995.html
with
http://www.betanews.com/article/NPD...ls_led_to_boosted_sales_this_month/1201203983
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