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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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P

polyh3dron

Banned
1080p said:
Bitter?
Well I am pissed that Sony killed the chance for an HDM optical disc format to become like DVD.

Blu ray is not dying?
It's not even alive, how can something already dead be dying?
You don't get it, do you?

HD DVD was the format to ge the DVD public over but Sony and it's BDA group distroyed it.. kinda like the Florida elections for Bush.
You like Sony controling you, then good for you.
I am not going there.

While you BD supporters are basically PS3 owners, and it seems you are playing with the controler as a Ken doll and a BD disc as a Barbie with a girlish smile on your faces need to do is put them down a moment and think about it.

Repeat to yourselves this...
A Game machine is not going to become the new DVD format

Sony will make the prices sky rocket on BD to make some money back for all the payouts and in the end kill their own monster all together.
There will be lots of bad press on the profiles... It will get ugly.

In before another bot says..
"Bitter much"
"Ha ha HD DVD is dead. get over it"


Meanwhile Blu Ray now on it's own... without a paddle.

DVD is the last optical format
Click to expand...

1080p said:
I used the word cheated because when you hear "the customer choose's bd" it's a lie!!
Sony didn't have the balls to let the consumer choice, if they did want to play it that way, then they should have been neutral.
If they were then all the studios would have been, so then we could have called this a war like VHS Vs Beta and then the consumer would have choosen.
Sony was scared of HD DVD, hance they cheated.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...

Love the misspellings there, it shows how pissed he is.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
 
P

Pachinko

Member
Just give me transformers and stardust on bluray , the sooner the better. Obviously there are a number of uni movies I'd grab as well but I won't even bother to list them here.


This was pretty well written on the wall a month and a half ago , it really shouldn't suprise anyone, NOW would be a good time to hock off that HDDVD player and your collections if you have not done so.
 
O

OokieSpookie

Banned
Second said:
Lol @ the meltdowns. :lol

Competition isn't always fair. 1080p should know that.
Click to expand...

I love the hypocrisy in his posts too, it was hd-dvd that changed the rules by moneyhatting Paramount.
They chose the way the game would be played from there on out.
 
S

Sallokin

Member
Thank god it's finally over. Glad I only have 11 HD-DVD's and 8 of them are the combo format ones. I'm really only interested in rebuying Transformers and Children on Men on BR.
 
X

xS1TH L0RDx

Banned
i'm glad it's over too.

and i'm sooooo glad i pulled out and went blu when i did.

^ heh, it's like withdrawal! (the best method of birth control, of course)
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
Warm Machine said:
I'm a little sad that the format that got 99% of things right from the get go lost to the one that bungled up almost everything that could be bungled. Still, a single format future is far greater than that anyway as it allows the world to have been given a standard. Now everything can go forward without questions and all this crap will have been forgotten in about 9 months.

Never have I seen two competitors been so blood thirsty to win ever. This war was straight up mean. I wonder if someone will get the inside story of how the war went down and write a book about it.
Click to expand...


Wow. That's some first-class revisionist history right there.


Let's see, "the format that got 99% of things right":

-Didn't secure the exclusive support of any of the other, major "name brand" CE manufacturers, and was basically riding on the back of one manufacturer--Toshiba.

-Never had an advantage in studio support.

-Had most of it's major, much-ballyhooed, pre-launch "advantages" over the rival format (launching a year earlier than rival, 1/2 the price, greater name recognition,) either squandered by ineptitude or just plain never materializing in reality.

-Had an absolutely disastrous launch. Delayed multiple times, the format eventually did launch, not a year earlier than Blu-ray as expected, but only by approx two months, with barely any software to speak of at launch, and with just two models to choose from, neither of which was capable of 1080p, with only a paltry total of 10-12,000 units in stores.

-When 1080p players finally did come out, they were priced very similarly to the rival 1080p players offered by Blu-ray, so little impact over the supposed "price advantage" was felt.

-The HD DVD/DVD Combo disc made HD DVD discs more expensive than Blu-ray discs of the same movies, largely negating any consumer-perceived price advantage the format had in media.

-Never had even one week of a head-to-head sales victory over Blu-ray after the PS3 launch.

-Ceded Japan by totally failing to capture the crucial recorder market in Japan due to a dearth of both recording hardware and media compared to the rival format.


...


The format you say "bungled up almost everything that could be bungled":

-Always had greater manufacturer support from popular, trusted brands. Especially the Japanese giant Matsushita (Panasonic,) the forward-looking, value-leading Korean juggernaught, Samsung, and the videophile favorite, Pioneer Elite.

-Always had greater studio support. Locked up absolutely crucial studios like Disney and Fox and gave them a place at the table. Disney became one of the greatest assets, with not only releases, but with marketing the format.

-Until the ridiculous fire sale pricing by Toshiba over the holidays, kept standalone player prices low enough that, in a feature-to-feature comparison, were priced either the same (see the first 1080p players on both sides) or were almost always always within $150-200 of the competition, not "twice the price" as HD DVD tryed to claim.

-Quickly moved to recognize and correct shortcomings in the quality of some early title releases, patching the hole before HD DVD could fully exploit it.

-Kept movie prices right in the same price range as the rival format, or even cheaper, despite supposedly being so much more expensive to produce.

-Put Blu-ray in the PS3, making it more mainstream than HD DVD could have ever hoped to be, even with the HD DVD add-on for the 360.

-Recognized early-on the importance of recordables in the Japanese market, and quickly captured +90% of the high-def share of that market.

-Had much better marketing than the rival, and kept it up.

-Led in movie sales every single week after the PS3 released.



Warm Machine said:
And so would BR fanboys had the reverse happened. It is always interesting and fun to think of it especially because this one hinged on a single event.
Click to expand...

Yeah, except that event wasn't Warner's switch, like you think. The "one single event" that doomed HD DVD was the day Toshiba walked out of the "one-format" negotiations with Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony, and decided that they could basically go it alone, and beat them all.

Basically, this war never should have started in the first place.
 
K

Kittonwy

Banned
Pristine_Condition said:
Wow. That's some first-class revisionist history right there.


Let's see, "the format that got 99% of things right":

-Didn't secure the exclusive support of any of the other, major "name brand" CE manufacturers, and was basically riding on the back of one manufacturer--Toshiba.

-Never had an advantage in studio support.

-Had most of it's major, much-ballyhooed, pre-launch "advantages" over the rival format (launching a year earlier than rival, 1/2 the price, greater name recognition,) either squandered by ineptitude or just plain never materializing in reality.

-Had an absolutely disastrous launch. Delayed multiple times, the format eventually did launch, not a year earlier than Blu-ray as expected, but only by approx two months, with barely any software to speak of at launch, and with just two models to choose from, neither of which was capable of 1080p, with only a paltry total of 10-12,000 units in stores.

-When 1080p players finally did come out, they were priced very similarly to the rival 1080p players offered by Blu-ray, so little impact over the supposed "price advantage" was felt.

-The HD DVD/DVD Combo disc made HD DVD discs more expensive than Blu-ray discs of the same movies, largely negating any consumer-perceived price advantage the format had in media.

-Never had even one week of a head-to-head sales victory over Blu-ray after the PS3 launch.

-Ceded Japan by totally failing to capture the crucial recorder market in Japan due to a dearth of both recording hardware and media compared to the rival format.


...


The format you say "bungled up almost everything that could be bungled":

-Always had greater manufacturer support from popular, trusted brands. Especially the Japanese giant Matsushita (Panasonic,) the forward-looking, value-leading Korean juggernaught, Samsung, and the videophile favorite, Pioneer Elite.

-Always had greater studio support. Locked up absolutely crucial studios like Disney and Fox and gave them a place at the table. Disney became one of the greatest assets, with not only releases, but with marketing the format.

-Until the ridiculous fire sale pricing by Toshiba over the holidays, kept standalone player prices low enough that, in a feature-to-feature comparison, were priced either the same (see the first 1080p players on both sides) or were almost always always within $150-200 of the competition, not "twice the price" as HD DVD tryed to claim.

-Quickly moved to recognize and correct shortcomings in the quality of some early title releases, patching the hole before HD DVD could fully exploit it.

-Kept movie prices right in the same price range as the rival format, or even cheaper, despite supposedly being so much more expensive to produce.

-Put Blu-ray in the PS3, making it more mainstream than HD DVD could have ever hoped to be, even with the HD DVD add-on for the 360.

-Recognized early-on the importance of recordables in the Japanese market, and quickly captured +90% of the high-def share of that market.

-Had much better marketing than the rival, and kept it up.

-Led in movie sales every single week after the PS3 released.





Yeah, except that event wasn't Warner's switch, like you think. The "one single event" that doomed HD DVD was the day Toshiba walked out of the "one-format" negotiations with Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony, and decided that they could basically go it alone, and beat them all.

Basically, this war never should have started in the first place.
Click to expand...

Flawless Vitoly.
Indifferent2.gif
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
polyh3dron said:
Pristine, I award you +5 internets for your post. Well played sir.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will spend them wisely. :lol



Actually, those were just the highlights (or lowlights, depending on your perspective of this silly "war) of the history lesson. There's some really in-depth stuff for the people who will study things like this to ponder for years in the fields of business administration, PR, marketing and advertising, ect.


Some of the more esoteric things I'm curious about:

-The actual impact of the PS3 v. the perceived impact.

-Marketing costs on both sides.

-What impact Blu-ray having more access to key technologies and greater R&D capabilities through more manufacturing parters had for keeping them in the game from a cost perspective and lowering prices to more consumer-friendly prices in the years to come.


But here's the big one I'm interested in:

-How having so many more "name brand" manufacturers in the Blu-ray camp helped them win the battle in the retail space. This, I think, will turn out to be a much more major key to the victory than anyone right now is talking about.

Look at how Blu-ray was always chipping away at HD DVD's presence at retail. What kind of deals and "supplier relations" was going on behind the scenes to make that happen? What kind of money, sweet deals, or vendor pressures were at work to get retailers to give Blu-ray those end-caps in stores and keep HD DVD on the back shelf?

What impact did Sony's decision to do something they never did before--bring out special, value-priced versions of the popular and consumer-coveted Bravia line of HDTVs--have on building bridges like they never had before with value retailers like Wal-mart and Target, ect. Did decisions like those among CE manufacturers in the Blu-ray camp plant the seed for the good relations that led to Blu-ray's dominant retail position?
 
Y

YYZ

Junior Member
omg, has anyone watched TAoJJBtCRF (figure that one out, lol)???

It's so fucking boring! Movies are supposed to be entertaining, even dramas which I like, but this is boring as hell. Is it supposed to be some kind of biopic?
 
O

OokieSpookie

Banned
YYZ said:
omg, has anyone watched TAoJJBtCRF (figure that one out, lol)???

It's so fucking boring! Movies are supposed to be entertaining, even dramas which I like, but this is boring as hell. Is it supposed to be some kind of biopic?
Click to expand...

It really was horrid.
I mean do not get me wrong, it had a couple of great performances but the movie itself was so freaking boring.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
YYZ said:
omg, has anyone watched TAoJJBtCRF (figure that one out, lol)???

It's so fucking boring! Movies are supposed to be entertaining, even dramas which I like, but this is boring as hell. Is it supposed to be some kind of biopic?
Click to expand...
Boo to both of you that couldn't appreciate Jesse James.
 
Y

YYZ

Junior Member
polyh3dron said:
Boo to both of you that couldn't appreciate Jesse James.
Click to expand...
If I'm going to WATCH a movie like this then I might as well read the book(s) on him instead.

There are some entertaining moments in the movie, but it feels like a chore to watch all 150 minutes.
 
D

Duderz

Banned
lupin23rd said:
So does this bring Criterion (HD Kurosawa et al) into the picture sooner?
Click to expand...

Definitely - in Criterion's FAQ, it says they'll be there when the war is over - hopefully an announcement comes sooner, rather than later.

The only thing I'll miss about all of this is good ol' Nico.
 
D

Duderz

Banned
Nicodimas said:
I would love to be the voice of support...but starwars//criterion will be 2010 or when Hd issuccesful... until this happens...yea...
Click to expand...

Criterion said:
At this point, any solution that would let consumers upgrade with confidence would be a step in the right direction, and as soon as that solution emerges, we’ll be there.
Click to expand...

I dunno, sounds more like they're releasing their catalogue based on the end of this format war than anything else.
 
N

Nicodimas

Banned
here you guys can compare me in 2013-2014 if 2k..4k is not out then than we we have issues..

I see onixs point with the 10 years argument..but 1080p will be a short gen. TV is going to speed up quickly..
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
iapetus said:
Really? I assumed it was a subtle reference to this thread.

The episode's called "Meltdown".
Click to expand...

oh it was, (tho not just this thread) I just didn't want to reveal my nerdiness by being able to remember specific quotes from specific episodes. :lol

But oh, you got me. *hugs Red Dwarf DVD collection*
 
S

Solo

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
I'm much more heavily weighted to movies myself, but there were a ton of reports in late Summer about how only a quarter or so of PS3 owners had purchased a single movie.

Edit: this thread seems to have morphed into some kind of "PS3 is still doomed" thread.

More responses after Solo's trying to assert that this is somehow bad for Sony selling games... which is completely off topic.
Click to expand...

Sorry if you took my post that way - Im not trying to be all doom and gloom on Sony. I was just stating my ratio. Games are so low because I just bought my PS3 (Uncharted being the totally kickass game, BTW), while Ive been buying BDs for a month or two now. Im not dooming and glooming at all - Ive been quite impressed with my PS3, in fact.
 
O

OokieSpookie

Banned
Nicodimas said:
New question how does blu-ray beat dvd....

Not being mr. doomsayer!plase! Just want to know how blu unniches itself!
Click to expand...

Considering that it has already been outpacing dvd it is in good shape.
Not only that but it will ride the coat tails of higher hdtv adoption which will take another boost next year when the digital switch over kicks in and people buy new tvs who have been slow to adopt.
All blu has to do is supply a steady supply of catalog titles to compliment new releases and the rest will fall into place.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Nicodimas said:
New question how does blu-ray beat dvd....

Not being mr. doomsayer!plase! Just want to know how blu unniches itself!
Click to expand...

It's going to take years, HDTV Adoption still has a long way to go to.

It was quite a few years before DVD outsold VHS, and the advantages were far greater.

Being out before HDTV Adoption really starts up, should help it quite a bit. People will likely buy a blu-ray player to go with their new TV.. and retailers, now that there is one format (still strange to type this), will try to sell one with every HDTV.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Blu-ray doesn't have to beat DVD, just has to make players ubiquitous and cheap, and ensure all new movies and a healthy back-catalog are released. Critical mass, not domination.

Not everything needs to be in HD.
 
N

Nicodimas

Banned
Considering that it has already been outpacing dvd it is in good shape.
Click to expand...

Ookie I know your mr blu-ray. But 10 million does not come close to 1.7 BILLION a year. Your the #1 blu ray guy and all but seriously we need to pick HDM to 17 million a month quickly...

Comercials are great
Toshiba should do its thing..cheap player quickly
but how does HD make its self prove it better

( I am drunk figure above post out..you better have college)

just has to make players ubiquitous and
Click to expand...

Your on crack...dvd is 5 bucks and 40 dollar player...explain your point!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not everything needs to be in HD.
Click to expand...

lies

you love dvd huh!
 
O

OokieSpookie

Banned
Nicodimas said:
Ookie I know your mr blu-ray. But 10 million does not come close to 1.7 BILLION a year. Your the #1 blu ray guy and all but seriously we need to pick HDM to 17 million a month quickly...

Comercials are great
Toshiba should do its thing..cheap player quickly
but how does HD make its self prove it better

( I am drunk figure above post out..you better have college)
Click to expand...

Your idiotic gimmick is growing a bit old and tedious.
I was referring to blu ray outpacing dvd at this point in dvds lifetime.
Bishop and others may find you amusing, I find you to be an ignorant jackass who has become a walking cliche.
 
N

Nicodimas

Banned
I was referring to blu ray outpacing dvd at this point in dvds lifetime.
Click to expand...

Ok I agree. So Ookie!! how does blu-ray catch on... ( im fucked up right now)...

I have been watching blu forums for months and this is the main question..how does it catch on!! /answer me!
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
iapetus said:
Twenty years old this week, I believe (they're running vast amounts of Red Dwarf on Dave to celebrate it...)
Click to expand...

I'm actually watching it now :lol Series 6 - Psirens!

I wonder if they'll ever make the movie... Series VIII ended on the cliff hanger to end all cliffhangers... tho it would probably be terrible...

"It's as plain as a Bulgarian pin up!"
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Nicodimas said:
Ok I agree. So Ookie!! how does blu-ray catch on... ( im fucked up right now)...

I have been watching blu forums for months and this is the main question..how does it catch on!! /answer me!
Click to expand...

If you consider Blu-ray outpacing DVD at the same point in its life, and you consider DVD successful, then what more are you looking for?

It already accomplished the main thing that would hinder HDM in either format, two different formats in the market. Now since thats out of the way it can continue on growing in retail at its natural progression.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Nicodimas said:
( I am drunk figure above post out..you better have college)



Your on crack...dvd is 5 bucks and 40 dollar player...explain your point!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't say "more ubiquitous/cheaper than DVD." They just have to hit low prices/compact players and BD drives as common accessories in computers.

As I said, I don't think BD has to overtake DVD to have a healthy market.

Not everything needs to be in HD= TV shot is SD in the first place, old movies with no restored print, etc.

I am looking for a fraction of 1.7 billion in a year..and soon..
Click to expand...

I see you have found your new talking point! :lol Nobody expects BD to be close to DVD this fast. THe format's not even two years old yet. At two years old, DVD was a teensy blip on the map compared to VHS.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
so, i got my 5 free hd movies, just watched sky captain.. really fun movie.

will be buying into brd when i get my bonus check next week. i want to get the bd up 5000, but im worried they could scuttle the whole thing.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Pristine_Condition said:
Wow. That's some first-class revisionist history right there.


Let's see, "the format that got 99% of things right":

-Didn't secure the exclusive support of any of the other, major "name brand" CE manufacturers, and was basically riding on the back of one manufacturer--Toshiba.

-Never had an advantage in studio support.

-Had most of it's major, much-ballyhooed, pre-launch "advantages" over the rival format (launching a year earlier than rival, 1/2 the price, greater name recognition,) either squandered by ineptitude or just plain never materializing in reality.

-Had an absolutely disastrous launch. Delayed multiple times, the format eventually did launch, not a year earlier than Blu-ray as expected, but only by approx two months, with barely any software to speak of at launch, and with just two models to choose from, neither of which was capable of 1080p, with only a paltry total of 10-12,000 units in stores.

-When 1080p players finally did come out, they were priced very similarly to the rival 1080p players offered by Blu-ray, so little impact over the supposed "price advantage" was felt.

-The HD DVD/DVD Combo disc made HD DVD discs more expensive than Blu-ray discs of the same movies, largely negating any consumer-perceived price advantage the format had in media.

-Never had even one week of a head-to-head sales victory over Blu-ray after the PS3 launch.

-Ceded Japan by totally failing to capture the crucial recorder market in Japan due to a dearth of both recording hardware and media compared to the rival format.


...


The format you say "bungled up almost everything that could be bungled":

-Always had greater manufacturer support from popular, trusted brands. Especially the Japanese giant Matsushita (Panasonic,) the forward-looking, value-leading Korean juggernaught, Samsung, and the videophile favorite, Pioneer Elite.

-Always had greater studio support. Locked up absolutely crucial studios like Disney and Fox and gave them a place at the table. Disney became one of the greatest assets, with not only releases, but with marketing the format.

-Until the ridiculous fire sale pricing by Toshiba over the holidays, kept standalone player prices low enough that, in a feature-to-feature comparison, were priced either the same (see the first 1080p players on both sides) or were almost always always within $150-200 of the competition, not "twice the price" as HD DVD tryed to claim.

-Quickly moved to recognize and correct shortcomings in the quality of some early title releases, patching the hole before HD DVD could fully exploit it.

-Kept movie prices right in the same price range as the rival format, or even cheaper, despite supposedly being so much more expensive to produce.

-Put Blu-ray in the PS3, making it more mainstream than HD DVD could have ever hoped to be, even with the HD DVD add-on for the 360.

-Recognized early-on the importance of recordables in the Japanese market, and quickly captured +90% of the high-def share of that market.

-Had much better marketing than the rival, and kept it up.

-Led in movie sales every single week after the PS3 released.





Yeah, except that event wasn't Warner's switch, like you think. The "one single event" that doomed HD DVD was the day Toshiba walked out of the "one-format" negotiations with Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony, and decided that they could basically go it alone, and beat them all.

Basically, this war never should have started in the first place.
Click to expand...

Maybe he meant 99% technically right? (As in the technology.) But that does really make sense either . . . I've never really compared the two but BD can store more but HD-DVD is little cheaper, right?
 
N

Nicodimas

Banned
As I said, I don't think BD has to overtake DVD to have a healthy market.
Click to expand...

oh I feel the same way...20-30% is fine with me! See the cool thing with a niche market is it gets the best movies! Ookie would you be fine with blu being niche..


(this is why I think Holo disks<4k>are going to win over the DD market-Onix)

DVD was a teensy blip on the map compared to VHS.
Click to expand...

Igntatz its 2k8 and VHS sells more than HDM combined scary huh?
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I think he meant:

HD DVD got to market faster
had better-looking early releases
had cheaper players
has not had an issue with the specs changing.

Still, Pristine's list overshadows that by a lot, and HD-DVDs strong points were all temporary.
 
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