Hillary Clinton: drug legalization won't end the problem

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Guevara said:
To be fair, look at alcohol prohibition in this country. Companies that made alcohol didn't disappear they just started making other products. Which makes sense: They already had factories, workers, capital, etc. It was kind of a forced pivot.

Clinton is right, these big organized crime syndicates won't just disappear overnight, they'll try other things and probably violent crimes in the short term. In the long term a smaller economy (because of less income from drugs) would lead to less organized crime though.
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That's a bad analogy. Breweries turned into soda/beverage factories during prohibition. That wasn't much of a stretch, it's essentially the same line of business, just with a slightly different product.

Furthermore, if marijuana is legalized, suddenly there is no benefit to moving product in the black market, or at the very least, the benefit is massively reduced. But that doesn't mean the benefit for kidnapping or extortion is proportionally increased. Those crimes still have their own risk/reward, and the risk can be much higher on those than even serious drug crimes. It's ludicrous to assume that reduced illegal marijuana operations will suddenly cause a massive increase in other illegal activities.
 
Pretty short-sighted statements made by her IMO. The only ray of light I see in this is that her words mean the administration is perhaps considering a unique response to colorado and washington, instead of the status quo.
 
I believe it is incorrect to state that groups that depend on selling massive amounts of marijuana will instead resort to kidnapping to make ends meet. These are two totally different crimes. What will happen is they will just ramp up trafficking of other illegal drugs instead. Most of these illegal drugs do not have the broad appeal and perceived safety of marijuana though, so in the end they will probably just not make as much money as they used to.
 
Seanspeed said:
Why do they hate weed so much, for real? Its crazy.
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Way too much money going around while its illegal, for everybody involved. Enforcement, prisons, pharmaceuticals, beer companies, dealers, everyone. Except the poor folks caught up in this bullshit web for smoking a nigh harmless plant, for instance.

Its the most blatant hypocrisy, is woefully ineffective, unjust, and everybody knows it.
 
ProfessorLobo said:
God I hope she's not the nominee in 2016.
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If she is she's going to change her stance on legalization by then, I guarantee you.

Will legalization literally solve every problem associated with drug trafficking? Of course not. But ending this counterproductive war on drugs would go a looong way.
 
DarkKyo said:
So her take on the issue is that if you take away profit from criminals they'll find other ways to make profit? So... what... don't do anything?
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I'm sure they will, but the key thing here is that they have absolutely no chance of finding a product as profitable and in such demand as illegal drugs

fancimus said:
Pretty short-sighted statements made by her IMO. The only ray of light I see in this is that her words mean the administration is perhaps considering a unique response to colorado and washington, instead of the status quo.
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I would hope they think of it as a test case. Thats the one nice thing about federalism. You can try shit out in the states
 
Um... the problem when it comes to pot is the criminal justice system, not the criminals.

We are locking people up and ruining lives over bullshit minor drug charges -- over some weed.

Her comments would make more sense if they were about the hard drugs, but not about pot...
 
Hilary Clinton said:
We are formulating our own response to the votes of two of our states, as you know, and what that means for the federal system, the federal laws, and law enforcement. So I respect those in the region who believe strongly that that would end the problem. I am not convinced of that, just speaking personally. I think when you've got ruthless, vicious people who have made money one way, if it's somehow blocked, they'll figure out another way. They'll do kidnapping, they'll do extortion. They will suborn officials and basically take over swathes of territory that they will govern and terrorize people in.

So I don't think that's the answer. Whether there is some movement that can be discussed, I think will have to be a topic for the future for us.
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People who sell weed are not the same type of people that do kidnappings...
 
sans_pants said:
i dont understand how our government can brazenly lie to us. i know she doesn't even believe the words she is saying
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I don't think the political climate has changed quite enough yet to see any sort of legalization support on a natioal level. Things are changing though and a continued pressure from other states would also help things along.
 
"I don't think legalization is the right answer, I don't know what the real problem is and I don't have anything constructive to offer instead. Don't worry though, we'll talk about it later."

gg Hildawg
 
The cartels may find other means (evil people will be evil), but there is no doubt that legalization would be a huge blow to their operations. Substantial enough for it to be worth the effort in my eyes.
 
Less revenue for the cartels means they have less power and influence.

They will have less money to corrupt officials, buy armaments, and recruit members.
 
NullPointer said:
In the meantime lets imprison millions. OK.
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I know, crazy right?

Here is the bit that actually surprises me though:

Earlier this month, Raymond Yans, the head of the U.N.'s drug watchdog agency, criticized the U.S. for sending "a wrong message abroad" with its passage of the landmark legalization in Colorado and Washington, and urged the U.S. to challenge both states.

He said he hoped Attorney General Eric Holder "will take all the necessary measures" to ensure that marijuana use remains illegal in the U.S.
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Why is this the U.N. watchdog's stance on the US making marijuana legal? Whether or not he understands the problems we currently have with self-governing of anti-drug laws, how do these decisions affect the UN and other countries abroad?
 
Jackben said:
Right?

Here is the bit that actually surprises me though:

Why is this the U.N. watchdog's stance on the US making marijuana legal? Whether or not he understands the problems we currently have with self-governing of anti-drug laws, how do these decisions affect the UN and other countries abroad?
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It sends the message to other countries that this kind of freedom is something to work towards. Wouldn't want that.
 
I'm not of the under the impression that legalizing weed alone will have much of an impact on the cartels. It might lower their income a little, but it's not like their drug smuggling portfolio is nothing but weed alone. There's other benefits to legalization such as reducing prison population, industrialized hemp and regulation/taxation that IMO should be reason enough.
 
Not a surprising position based on Obama's first term, but hopefully Washington and Colorado don't cooperate in any way. It was easy for him to go after medical marijuana, but I imagine it'll be harder to go after full legal weed since it'll just invite a debate they don't want to have regarding the drug war.
 
Fenderputty said:
I'm not of the under the impression that legalizing weed alone will have much of an impact on the cartels. It might lower their income a little, but it's not like their drug smuggling portfolio is nothing but weed alone.
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I have no actual empirical data to back it up, but I have watched NatGeo's Border Wars, and it sure as hell seems like the vast majority of product being moved across the Mexican border is weed. Like, whatever is #2 is not even close.
 
If kidnapping and extortion had the same profit potential as dealing drugs, then gangs wouldn't have given up the latter to concentrate on the former. Hasn't she seen Goodfellas?
 
Fenderputty said:
I'm not of the under the impression that legalizing weed alone will have much of an impact on the cartels. It might lower their income a little, but it's not like their drug smuggling portfolio is nothing but weed alone. There's other benefits legalization such as reducing prison population, industrialized hemp and regulation/taxation benefits that IMO should be reason enough.
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Agreed. I think it would hurt cartels but that shouldn't be the main focus point. Honestly I think the cartel talk is mostly deflection since gang violence has been in the popular media a lot what with everything that went down in Mexico in the last few years and it forces people to try and argue for something we don't have hard data for.
 
Fenderputty said:
I'm not of the under the impression that legalizing weed alone will have much of an impact on the cartels. It might lower their income a little, but it's not like their drug smuggling portfolio is nothing but weed alone. There's other benefits to legalization such as reducing prison population, industrialized hemp and regulation/taxation that IMO should be reason enough.
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Weed makes up 60% of the cartel's profits
 
Fenderputty said:
I'm not of the under the impression that legalizing weed alone will have much of an impact on the cartels. It might lower their income a little, but it's not like their drug smuggling portfolio is nothing but weed alone. There's other benefits legalization such as reducing prison population, industrialized hemp and regulation/taxation benefits that IMO should be reason enough.
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I've heard anywhere from 10% to 60% as far as the income to cartels. I think it has had an effect indirectly though, as now Mexico can question why the heck they are engaging in a bloody war to stop shipments of product legal in 2 states (to say nothing of the medical market in other states). But like you said, even if it had no impact on the violence in Mexico, legalizing marijuana makes sense as a civil rights and economic matter.
 
Legalization certainly will NOT END the problems. But that is a strawman.

The relevant question is will that REDUCE problems. And I think the answer is yes. So try it.
 
All you have to do is look up how many people in North America or the US alone smoke pot. The number is huge, it's a giant industry, and it's not just pocket change to cartels.
 
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126978142
As Mexico's biggest agricultural export, marijuana generates billions of dollars in revenues each year for the brutal narcotics cartels. By some estimates, it is the most profitable product for the Mexican drug gangs.

Mexico, the world's largest exporter of marijuana, sends almost all of its crops to the U.S. Cannabis also accounts for almost half the cartels' revenues, according to an estimate from the Mexican attorney general's office.

And the Mexican gangs have also established sophisticated networks to grow marijuana in national parks inside the U.S., thus avoiding the difficulty of smuggling it north across the border.
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Fenderputty said:
I'm not of the under the impression that legalizing weed alone will have much of an impact on the cartels. It might lower their income a little, but it's not like their drug smuggling portfolio is nothing but weed alone. There's other benefits to legalization such as reducing prison population, industrialized hemp and regulation/taxation that IMO should be reason enough.
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Exactly. The impact on cartels is a possible benefit. The reason to legalise it is becuase it is the right fucking thing to do.
 
DarkKyo said:
Seriously. THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN, now get your grubby federal hands off of my fucking weed. What happened to the idea of a democracy? This is the epitome of the illusion of choice. Where the majority seeks a simple change to a major issue but the powers that influence the US government seek to silence the people's voices.
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This is the fallout of big government.

speculawyer said:
Legalization certainly will NOT END the problems. But that is a strawman.

The relevant question is will that REDUCE problems. And I think the answer is yes. So try it.
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I don't smoke anymore, but I tend to agree with this. Time for something new Uncle Sam.
 
WhatRobEats said:
Bill's wife that's about as far as it goes. People seem to think a presidency by her would by extension be Bill's they would be sorely disappointed.
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Bill's presidency wasn't that great in terms of actual policies achieved. It was very conservative by any standards and some of it led to the shitty situation we have now. Although to be somewhat fair to him, he also had a Republican congress that was led by Newt Gringrich at one point.
 
I'm just throwing darts at a board here... But if pot were legalized... Maybe these douchebag cartels would get a chance to become douchebag companies who already have the distribution networks, production facilities, and all with less risk of losing capital or product when crossing the border. Suddenly they no longer have to push violence and terror to ward people away from their operations.
It's idealistic, but it makes a lot more sense than them saying, "Fuck! Now that what I'm doing is no longer illegal I'm going to trash this whole multi-billion dollar operation and get into the kidnapping game." You don't become a drug baron by being an idiot. They're smart people and the fact that they're ruthless is directly attributed to the risks involved in their trade.
 
It's already been well established for a good number of years now that cartels get somewhere between 60-70% of their income from marijuana alone. It's their biggest export.
 
I thought I heard somewhere that drug cartels have already said they are going to go after Washington and Colorado. Could be wrong though.
 
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