Hillary Clinton: drug legalization won't end the problem

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She was everyone's savior a few weeks ago, now that she has the same view as other old people on drugs, we want to burn her?
 
Whatever desperation "last charge" the cartels engage in will be shortlived. It takes money for them to launch their operations. Once they're no longer able to pay off the government and once they're no longer able to promise easy money to their foot soldiers, they will shrink in power and significance.

No doubt there will be increased bouts of asshole terrorism, but as long as Mexico and others can weather that storm in the short-run, things will improve far better than maintaining the joke we call our status quo.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Once again, I'm not concerned about the impact in the US; I'm sure gas stations would have no problem selling weed there. That's not the case in Mexico. The cartels have shown for decades that they will attack anything that cuts into their turf or profits; the notion that Mexican stores can simply legally sell weed or cocaine and face no repercussions is nonsense. You think cartels will simply say "oh well, if you can't beat em, join em?"
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You're missing the point that severely undercutting their profits by severely curtailing the funding they receive from illegal drug trade in the United States would REDUCE their ability to fight "round for round" with, say, the Mexican military. The illegality of the drugs is what gives them the power they have. Nobody's saying that legalization is a panacea to end the ills of the drug war. Much as ending colonialism did not end the problems it created, we will deal with the repercussions for years to come. But it's the most rational, obvious first step, one that's not avoided because it's wrong but because politicians don't have the guts to stand up for what's right over what's politically popular.

This is just further proof that Hillary is a political hack, even if I agree with her on some things.
 
PhoenixDark said:
We're not in the prohibition era. We're talking about cartels that can compete round for round with the military of multiple countries.

You don't eliminate profit motives by legalizing - you increase profits. They'll simply make more money from the US and other foreign markets while fighting over turf/market share in South America.
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When legal means are just as easy as illegal means, sociological studies show that citizens will more likely go the legal route when purchasing.
 
For all Ms. Hilary Clinton's bombast about freedom, liberty, and tolerance, she still wants to tap into the national resurgence of overt mammonism. She broadens her appeal by seeking influence and adherents in the narcissism movement. Think about this: Hildawg cheerleaders get a thrill out of protesting. They have no idea what causes they're fighting for or against. For them, going down to the local protest, carrying a sign, hanging out with Hilary, and meeting some other peevish devotees of conspiracy theories is merely a social event. Every time Hilary gets caught trying to stab us in the back, she promises she'll never do so again. Subsequently, her shills always jump in and explain that she really shouldn't be blamed even if she does because she does the things she does "for America".
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Rentahamster said:
As far as the economics arguments go, yes. Is there a difference in your mind?
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Just making sure we're talking about the same thing; personally I support the legalization of weed and not harder drugs. But with respect to complete legalization of everything I don't see how it would put cartels out of business or decrease violence in South America.
 
Oh man, some people are talking about legalazing ALL drugs? I can understand weed and I can stand behind the legalization of weed, but when we are venturing into coke, heroine, meth as being legal, I just can't go for that.
 
Nerfgun said:
It is debatable how adverse the medical effects of weed are, but undeniable that is on an entirely different level than opiates or synthetics. Weed is somewhere south of alcohol.
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People are going to consume what they want to consume regardless of legality. 30+ years of a failed war on drugs should make this rather apparent.

We can continue to punish users, further complicating their lives sending them into the prison system, or we can try to think differently and attack the problem in a different way. Stop treating victimless crimes as crimes and start treating it as a condition.

I know we're not Portugal, but they're at least a country which has tried simple decriminalization of all drugs to positive results. The idea that legalizing drugs will result in a bunch of doped up users running around in the streets is based on faulty logic.

We need to focus on education and treatment, not incarceration. We can fund these progams by the revenue we get from legalized weed.
 
Fenderputty said:
Why?
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There's no benefits to legalizing hard drugs and its certainly not a debate on the lethality of hard drugs to weed because hard drugs will run away with that hands down all the time. You can argue that with the cartels it will lead to less violence but then I can see it as less homicides but a more increase in overdose deaths.
 
OriginofHysteria said:
There's no benefits to legalizing hard drugs and its certainly not a debate on the lethality of hard drugs to weed because hard drugs will run away with that hands down all the time. You can argue that with the cartels it will lead to less violence but then I can see it as less homicides but a more increase in overdose deaths.
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Read my post above.

There are benefits to decriminalization of all drugs and it's currently in practice in another country.

Also ... the idea that more people will start doing heroin because of it's legal status is based on faulty logic.

Also ... how many more years of a failed war on drugs before you'll consider trying something else?

If your concern is about the user then why are you for incarceration?
 
What an odd comment by Clinton.

You'd think she'd realize that lots of crime is from opportunity; that, if there are many, easily available ways to make money illegally, people will go ahead and do so. Her comment suggests that if you close off one way for criminals to break the law, they will definitely find some other way (as if... as if they have to meet some 'evil quotient').
 
PhoenixDark said:
Just making sure we're talking about the same thing; personally I support the legalization of weed and not harder drugs. But with respect to complete legalization of everything I don't see how it would put cartels out of business or decrease violence in South America.
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The pushback from cartels would be violent in the short-term, but in the long-term, people WILL go for legal sources over illegal ones if they're cheaper and more convenient - which they almost certainly would be, since black markets inflate the prices of things. Without that funding, cartels could NOT operate to the scale that they presently do, which would make fighting them and putting them out of business easier.

Again, nobody's saying that this is going to happen overnight, but prohibition NEVER works and NEVER will. Illegal organizations are always empowered by the illegality of the thing they're peddling, as long as there's a demand for it.
 
OriginofHysteria said:
There's no benefits to legalizing hard drugs and its certainly not a debate on the lethality of hard drugs to weed because hard drugs will run away with that hands down all the time. You can argue that with the cartels it will lead to less violence but then I can see it as less homicides but a more increase in overdose deaths.
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I think we should treat addiction to stuff like heroin and meth as an illness, not a crime.
 
If politicians ever dealt with having to find an illegal substance and dealing with the risk to gaining that illegal substance this would not even be up for debate.

Nationwide legalization happens dealers within this nation can either go through the legal channels in order to continue business or they can watch their business go under as the major users of marijuana would never go to them again if they can walk into a store and purchase.

It would be crippling to Cartels, especially if cultivation is at a major level for US businesses.
 
perryfarrell said:
What an odd comment by Clinton.

You'd think she'd realize that lots of crime is from opportunity; that, if there are many, easily available ways to make money illegally, people will go ahead and do so. Her comment suggests that if you close off one way for criminals to break the law, they will definitely find some other way (as if... as if they have to meet some 'evil quotient').
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As one of GAF's criminologists, I am wholeheartedly impressed with your train of thought. We need more people like this.
 
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about the jobs legalization of marijuana would create?

Would the jobs created be offset by the jobs lost in the industrial prison complex or officers and agencies for the 'war on drugs'?
 
Fenderputty said:
Read my post above.

There are benefits to decriminalization of all drugs and it's currently in practice in another country.

Also ... the idea that more people will start doing heroin because of it's legal status is based on faulty logic.

Also ... how many more years of a failed war on drugs before you'll consider trying something else?

If your concern is about the user then why are you for incarceration?
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Just to be clear, when I say make it not legal I meant that I don't all of a sudden want it to be easier to obtain somehow. And while you bring up incarceration, Ive always had an idea that we should treat hard drug users like we do mentally unstable people. Instead of sending them to jail the alternative should be to send them to a rehab facility straight away. I would happily fund my tax payer dollars towards that.

However when it comes to the sellers, I wouldnt change the stance on them at all.
 
why are you all isolating this to hillary clinton, you guys understand policy making right?

i'm going to assume this is some post-election "we didn't campaign for hillary" defence mechanism.
 
OriginofHysteria said:
Just to be clear, when I say make it not legal I meant that I don't all of a sudden want it to be easier to obtain somehow. And while you bring up incarceration, Ive always had an idea that we should treat hard drug users like we do mentally unstable people. Instead of sending them to jail the alternative should be to send them to a rehab facility straight away. I would happily fund my tax payer dollars towards that.
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Your above statment at least requires us to decriminalize usage, which is quite the drastic change from what we have now.
 
But the war on drugs hasn't solved the problem either.

Maybe she should come up with a working solution before dismissing legalization.
 
dabig2 said:
Yeah, Bill sure is.



If we're thinking of the same guy, then he's already been summoned.
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That's what I meant.


Also to people wondering why coke and heroin shouldn't be legalized, it's because both are potentially lethal from one dose and because both are incredibly addictive,whereas pot isn't either.

That's not rocket science. As to whether legalizing heroin and coke is good for crime stats, totally different issue in some ways.
 
I couldn't agree more. Keep that shit out of my country. If you need your drug so much, move to some shit-hole that it's legalized in. But keep it out of my country.
 
Stinkles said:
That's what I meant.


Also to people wondering why coke and heroin shouldn't be legalized, it's because both are potentially lethal from one dose and because both are incredibly addictive,whereas pot isn't either.

That's not rocket science. As to whether legalizing heroin and coke is good for crime stats, totally different issue in some ways.
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Well there is no doubt that using heroin and.coke lethal and pretty addictive which is why we should focus more on cracking down on those selling it rather than using it. You can only hope stricter selling laws will equate to less usage.
 
Nah she's just spouting the party line, saying stuff that doesn't make any kind of logical sense. Saying stuff that isn't even supported by prohibition history.

She's been Sec. State for years, dealing with foreign issues all that time. Why she would be an authority for this domestic issue makes about as much sense as her statement.

Hilary has done some good work but she has a spotty record. I remember when she was seeking office and would rail against video games - something she knows nothing about - only to pander to the moms out there.
 
Wiggler said:
I find it interesting that her and her husband appear to be on two completely different pages on the subject. Bill has recently come out against the drug war in a new documentary about to be released.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturevideo/filmvideo/9703323/Breaking-the-Taboo-trailer-Bill-Clinton-and-Morgan-Freeman-back-anti-war-on-drugs-documentary.html

trailer for Breaking the Taboo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2vqpNT1kV4
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I would love to see this.

Though I think a reason you see Bill being politically courageous enough to say this is because he can. He's not going to be running for anything.

I would imagine that as more states follow Coloradoes lead, we'll start to see more politicians speak up nationally.
 
Viewt said:
I think she's right in that the cartels wouldn't just hang up their hat and call it a day if all drugs were legal.
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They wouldn't have to if they still retained control of distribution. Going legit would be far more cost effective than switching exclusively to extortion and kidnapping.
 
Stinkles said:
That's what I meant.


Also to people wondering why coke and heroin shouldn't be legalized, it's because both are potentially lethal from one dose and because both are incredibly addictive,whereas pot isn't either.

That's not rocket science. As to whether legalizing heroin and coke is good for crime stats, totally different issue in some ways.
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I doubt most people other than the most strident drug users agree with legalization of anything harder than weed. BUT there's a steep difference between legalization and decriminalization.

Every drug should be decriminalized. Or to be more specific, drug use of any drug should be decriminalized and treated as a public health concern (instead of sending them to jail, "force" them into health clinics). Illegal drug sellers/producers still need to be convicted and jailed.
 
Blu_LED said:
I couldn't agree more. Keep that shit out of my country. If you need your drug so much, move to some shit-hole that it's legalized in. But keep it out of my country.
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Oh but alcohol and tobacco is cool? Gotcha, very sound logic you have. Also I guess you are fine with all the pharmaceutical drugs this country pushes at people on a daily basis?
 
Blu_LED said:
I couldn't agree more. Keep that shit out of my country. If you need your drug so much, move to some shit-hole that it's legalized in. But keep it out of my country.
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Yea, The War on Drugs sure has stopped illegal drugs from entering the country...
 
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