Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
What the fuck. They fucking laughed it off.
Hillary Clinton Thanks Ronald Reagan for AIDS Actions
- Thread starter ApharmdX
- Start date
- Status
What the fuck. They fucking laughed it off.
Well, if you can't figure it out from reading the thread, the gay community, particular the gay community old enough to remember, isn't particularly fond of Reagan's handling of the coming of AIDS. He was largely absent as a President on the issue, and his staff made jokes about it while people were dying, but they didn't care because it was "just" gay people.
In fact, they didn't get interested in the issue until it was clear that AIDS was a danger to everyone. Even after Ryan White, a young boy who got AIDS from a blood transfusion, became the poster boy for AIDS, Reagan himself wouldn't say the word in public.
In short, her expressed opinion was so far away from the truth it's difficult to see how she got there. It's difficult to explain how painful that period was for gay people. I marched with men at the time who are mostly gone now, because of AIDS. Men who just wanted their government to do something about a spreading plague, but no one cared.
Yeah but why exactly is that bad?
Yeah its not true, presumably just some early pandering to republicans. But on the scale of nasty political lies, "hooray for aids awareness" doesnt seem like a biggie
Does that make sense?
Yeah, this is my main fear about Hillary and the reason I'm a Sanders supporter. Hillary's record on LGBT is passable if you interpret LGBT as "gay cis men" (which a lot of people do), but as a trans girl she doesn't inspire confidence.
Hillary can't be that much more hawkish than Obama considering he hired her to be one of the chief architects of his foreign policy. Now, whether you agree with that foreign policy or not is a totally different question -- but, at this point, they're largely tied at the hip, foreign policy legacy wise.
Why? She's still far more liberal than the average member of Congress is or will be in 2017.
Plus she was for the bullshit deregulation of banks that infected the whole world economy when Bill was pres.
Aaronology
Member
Yeah, I believe it was a earnest mistake, but it's extremely odd to see such an otherwise polished and factually in control Clinton make it. It's a little disappointing.
Pretty much where i come from.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Including foreign policy votes in Congress she was to his left. Those votes and rating include the iraq war
Drake
Member
Ok? She's gonna be an amazing president and if you think other wise you're a misogynist. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's true. Hillary is the most qualified person for the job. She's EXACTLY what this country needs.
Hmm ok, I can see such blatant lies being painful for people, and it is weird for her to say it.
Sorry for my question, part devil's advocate part ignorance
It's mytholigizing Reagan like republicans. Putting him forward as some sort of God and thing to aspire to.
How do you think people who lost loved ones whilst Reagan did nothing feel? We learn nothing if we rewrite history.
Dude, no. This is wrong. You must know that it is.
Nope not really. A large amount of people died because of his administration ignoring the impact of aids. Attributing him to be anything other than hugely incompetent on this issue is flat out ridiculous. It was a mind bogglingly stupid thing for her to say. Doesn't seem like a biggie indeed.
Psychoward
Banned
Lol
I never understood why if a politician isn't ideology pure for their entire career they can't be trusted or how they're only changing for political points
If say a politician voted to send foreign aid to another country for political reasons do you think the people getting that aid give a single fuck about said persons intentions? I sure wouldn't.
If say a politician voted to send foreign aid to another country for political reasons do you think the people getting that aid give a single fuck about said persons intentions? I sure wouldn't.
Lol
Yeah anyone that disagrees with hilary is a mysognist, way to hide behind b.s. Living up to the right wings stereotype of the left.
Maintenance
Member
Hillary said that?
Thanks for dismissing trans opinions on this matter, i guess. Also continuing the "you must be sexist if you have a critique of Hillary" argument that we've seen in this very topic and elsewhere on Gaf. Her lack of care about Trans matters is a concern, frankly speaking. Lgbt is more than gay cis men and always was. But people like to "safely" believe otherwise.
It really is difficult to understand the level of anger and pain a lot of older gay men still feel about the whole thing. I mean, imagine you had a disease, and that disease was killing everyone you knew, and the CDC was shouting at the top of its lungs, but the executive branch went years with both fingers in their ears.
Dan Savage, a well known writer who was alive at the time, had this to say on the subject:
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah I disagree with both but Hillary is still noticeably more avid on a few things, including drones.
Yes I know including, but like I said it's weighted more towards economics since that's what the vast majority of Congressional votes are for. It even says that in the article. If I'm misinterpreting your most recent quote and you meant to say in isolated foreign policy votes she's still more liberal then that'll change my statement.
Lol.
Heartbreaking. Fuck Reagan.
I know but that's a huge problem, we have the same thing with thatcher here. It needs to be drilled into people's heads the at best incompetent shit they did to hurt people.
This is such a bizarre response.
Byakuya769
Member
She just can't get right.
I think she'll be pretty ok on LGBT stuff, just because that's such a major part of the Democratic coalition now. If anything, I would say that it's more likely that she was lying back in the 90s when she was against it, because she knew there was no way to win elections on it back then, same way Obama was against gay marriage back in 08. I doubt he believed that, he just had an election to win.
I'd be more doubtful of her TPP stance, which was taken very suddenly, and again kind of mirrors Obama 08's "Oh yeah, we're totally going to renegotiate NAFTA." And unlike gay rights, anti-trade just isn't something the Democratic establishment as a whole believes in.
On Iraq, I think she's genuinely learned a lesson not to start large ground wars, but like Obama, her interpretation of that lesson is to replace them with lots of bombing campaign and special forces raids, rather than non-intervention. This is an issue I think people overestimate Bernie on though. I think he's too uninterested in foreign policy to really try to rein in the national security apparatus. He'd rather spend his political capital on economic reforms than on convincing America it doesn't want to bomb the Middle East.
Why is everyone glad or happy at least she apologized right away? Of course she did, she would have been raked over the coals by everyone if she let it sit out there any longer. This is all hands on deck damage control. Of course she apologized, this isn't something to praise her over.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Saying dumb ass shit is aight as long as you apologize right quick
RustyNails
Member
Some pols try to squirm their way out by apologizing and then theorizing their original statement. Props to her for being curt and no bullshitting around.
It's amazing how many times she does it. Dunno if it's cause trump is worse nobody cares.
She literally refused to acknowledge trans existence even late last year. Bernie has for decades. Even in comparison to Obama, she's extremely behind. He acknowledged trans rights back during the 08 debates, she did not. Til very very recently she framed lgbt as gay/sexual rights only. Which continues to drive home the impression that all she cares for is gay cis men, the people who coopted lgbt to make it solely all about them. I dont trust that she wont throw me as a transwoman under the bus. It's not safe for her politically, shes never supported us til literally months ago, and shes never supported the not "safe" option.
I'll still vote for her if she gets the nom. as i more or less have to (and she is somewhat similar to Bernie) but some have grievances with her for a reason.
Im not particularly happy or praising her for this or other matters. But what else is she going to do.
Sorry for the double post.
Nikodemos
Member
An unfortunate fuck-up born out of her desire to appeal to moderate Republicans who realise their boy's gonna flop like a wet slipper and absolutely hate Drumpf. Remember, if any politician says something even remotely disparaging about Saint Raygun in a public setting/venue, s/he can kiss those Repub votes goodbyebye.
Vicetrailia
Banned
HilLary spreading bullshit like this is very worrisome. She absolutely cannot be trusted.
Doubtful, absolutely. But I wouldn't suggest opposition to TTP as being "anti-trade". It's a massive deal with a lot of, frankly, bad clauses in it. In Trumpian terms, it's not a good deal.
This is how I feel, I didn't think she would take this long to try and capture the socially liberal republicans aka corporate republicans.
Vote for Hillary, your $$$ will be safe.
titiklabingapat
Member
Hillary has already shown that she is a definite LGBT ally with her stint at the Department of State. This whole 'I'm not sure about her stance 'is a whole bunch of FUD. You are playing right into the Republican playbook if you believe otherwise.
Thanks for dismissing our criticisms. They are voiced for a reason.
I don't question her record as SOS in terms of LGBT stuff. It's exemplary, particularly when we use the term LGBT in the same way most people mean when they say LGBT, i.e. gays and lesbians, maybe bisexuals.
titiklabingapat
Member
I'm not dismissing it. She has stated over and over again about her support for the whole of LGBT, including trans rights. But people still call her a snake for 'changing her opinions' or calling it 'pandering'. It's all playing to the whole 'we can't trust her', which is straight from the GOP playbook of smearing any Democrats that run and my main grievance whenever her records are brought up. She can't win. What more can she do at this point?
Remember who the real enemy is come November.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Fuck Reagan on his silence.
Just....
Besada, you posted a good snippet of Dan Savage. Despite being short, it was a good read. It puts in perspective how people were a stigma for having AIDs, People laughing about 'the gay disease', what the fuck is that. People were so ignorant they thought you could only get it if you had sex with a man?
It's amazing that is recent history. It's a shame that a discussion of AIDs was a stigma for the longest time. Even now, I imagine the worst thing someone could say is that they have AIDs, there is still a lingering stigma to it.
And Clinton....that just reinforces my own dislike of now. And yet, sadly, she is the best choice for continuing Obamas policies(If she doesn't change her mind) simply because she's the most moderate between her and Sanders.
"GOP playbook of smearing democrats."
...Last I checked Clinton didn't have to specifically mention the Reagans 'AID actions' when they were so laughably ignorant. She could've mentioned anything else in the world. She could've given her condolences and be done with it. But she mentioned and 'thanked' something that hurt alot of people. Hurt alot of people. This isn't from any playbook, it's from the reality that Clinton put herself in this position. Nothing more, nothing less.
Just....
Besada, you posted a good snippet of Dan Savage. Despite being short, it was a good read. It puts in perspective how people were a stigma for having AIDs, People laughing about 'the gay disease', what the fuck is that. People were so ignorant they thought you could only get it if you had sex with a man?
It's amazing that is recent history. It's a shame that a discussion of AIDs was a stigma for the longest time. Even now, I imagine the worst thing someone could say is that they have AIDs, there is still a lingering stigma to it.
And Clinton....that just reinforces my own dislike of now. And yet, sadly, she is the best choice for continuing Obamas policies(If she doesn't change her mind) simply because she's the most moderate between her and Sanders.
"GOP playbook of smearing democrats."
...Last I checked Clinton didn't have to specifically mention the Reagans 'AID actions' when they were so laughably ignorant. She could've mentioned anything else in the world. She could've given her condolences and be done with it. But she mentioned and 'thanked' something that hurt alot of people. Hurt alot of people. This isn't from any playbook, it's from the reality that Clinton put herself in this position. Nothing more, nothing less.
I know her views on trans rights, dont lecture me. She couldn't even acknowledge our existence in an open letter about her support for lgbt rights as late as late last year. Literally described them as gay/sexuality rghts only. I don't trust she won't throw me under the bus for good reason.
To your edit:
As i already stated i will vote for her if i have to come election time. She's better than the Republican option and anyone would be.
Part of my problem on this also comes from the fact that trans suffering during the AIDS epidemic was also silenced for the "safe" option, if it was even acknowledged at all. And it should be tackled regardless of who is suffering.
Yup. She has somehow forgotten that she's still well within primary season and can hold off until later to court Republican voters.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Wait, what did she say about Jim Crow?
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Is it really FUD? The only FUD I see here is you saying that the LGBT crowd essentially cannot have any doubts about Hillary's stance without essentially buying into the GOP platform.
If someone were of the opinion that a mistake like this could not be made by someone genuinely for LGBT rights, I wouldn't blame them.
echoshifting
Banned
That was hard to read. Thanks for posting it.
- Status