Personally? I fucking loathe GTA so it would affect me not a whit
I understand long time fans (of BM especially) being disappointed that its changed. But thats a subjective emotional response, not an actual flaw with the game itself.
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Hitman: Absolution |OT| Police do not suspect Blood Money is involved.
- Thread starter Interfectum
- Start date
Personally? I fucking loathe GTA so it would affect me not a whit
I understand long time fans (of BM especially) being disappointed that its changed. But thats a subjective emotional response, not an actual flaw with the game itself.EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
So heavily abandoning the more open and flexible sandbox level/mission design of past Hitman games is like the most distinguishable, lesser element of Absolution that to me objectively makes it a weaker "Hitman" game. Because that philosophy of design was integral to the series, the mission structure, the game design right from the start. You cant scale something like that back, you cant start compartmentalising and limited the scope of levels, and pretend like it still holds itself up. Because it doesn't. They've taken arguably the most significant and iconic component of Hitman the video games and made it weaker. That's kind of a big deal, to me, and a good example of handling an established franchise in the wrong way.
But I do think it's still a good game so far, and that's the trouble. I don't think it's a bad game at all. It's well design, enjoyable, great to look at, tight to play, and does adopt many if not all of the Hitman mechanics, if to a lesser degree than before. It feels good to play and the challenges are fun to engage in.
So yeah, it's a good game. It's fun. And it's different. But being a good game by its own merits doesn't make it immune to criticism from within the boundaries of the franchise it is trying to live in. I can't pretend like it doesn't matter.
But I do think it's still a good game so far, and that's the trouble. I don't think it's a bad game at all. It's well design, enjoyable, great to look at, tight to play, and does adopt many if not all of the Hitman mechanics, if to a lesser degree than before. It feels good to play and the challenges are fun to engage in.
So yeah, it's a good game. It's fun. And it's different. But being a good game by its own merits doesn't make it immune to criticism from within the boundaries of the franchise it is trying to live in. I can't pretend like it doesn't matter.
Agree wholeheartedly.
I've yet to play it but my main problem with it, judging from videos and what various people have written, are the truncated levels and the seeming focus on overly scripted, 'cinematic' moments. It just gives the game a very stifling feel that I don't associate with the series.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
The focus is squarely on the moment to moment stealth gameplay. You are actively trying to infiltrate or escape a vast majority of the time.
Raitosaito
Member
After seeing many playthroughs and playing some of it myself I literally only have one gripe about the game, since I was never going to compare it with Blood Money. That one thing has been said many times in this thread, and that is the Disguise system.
Like, why the hell is there so much jank. . .
Like, why the hell is there so much jank. . .
Gets it
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think comparing it to Human Revolution is warranted, though I feel the former managed to toe the line closer to the original than Absolution does with the series. Both series really tighten up the controls, presentation, weight/feel of movement, presentation, and so on. Even the mission design is arguably tighter. But it comes at a cost of compartmentalisation, over scripting, and downscaling of design scope. Just as Human Revolution never quite reach the heights of truly massive, free form level design (though I still feel came closer to that philosophy than Hitman does), so too does Absolution fail to really keep true to the concept of sandbox level design and emergent, puzzle gameplay.
Instead of levels being one big puzzle, it's like lots of little puzzles, check pointed and segmented. Those puzzles do play really pretty damn well, but...that's not really Hitman, you know?
Instead of levels being one big puzzle, it's like lots of little puzzles, check pointed and segmented. Those puzzles do play really pretty damn well, but...that's not really Hitman, you know?
AHA-Lambda
Member
Yes, and I should be glad to live in an era where syndicate and XCOM are both FPS now... >_>
Does it work on the Steam version? Yesterday it was telling me the service was unaivalable, whenever I selected Contracts from the launch menu :/
Castor Krieg
Banned
It was down today morning as well.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
XCOM had a real version of it come out and it has been a space sim before
Interfectum
Member
I realize everyone has been waiting on the edge of their seats for my impressions, perhaps putting their lives and family's lives on hold to wait for what I have to say so... here are some quick positives and negatives:
I've played halfway through "Run For Your Life":
+ The graphics are gorgeous, probably the best I've seen this year
+ The King of Chinatown mission really did give me the feeling I was playing a Hitman game. Really well done, though a bit smaller in scope.
+ The missions that feel like a Hitman/Splinter Cell hybrid are still pretty fun and satisfying
+ Contracts mode is a fucking blast (when the servers are up)
+ The challenges and unlocks per mission along with the scoring and comparing to your friends really give this game a LOT of replay value
- The checkpoint system is flatout broken. It can't possibly be a design decision to have enemies respawn behind you if you reload a checkpoint. If it is then they should not be designing games. They need to patch this ASAP.
- The disguise system is a mess. I'm not even sure how they'd fix this but making enemies less sensitive to you, especially in terms of distance, would be a good start. The one redeeming part of this system is stumbling upon a rare disguise that allows you to somewhat walk freely without having to worry about that shit.
- The PC version of the game seems chunky and buggy as hell. Framerate issues, crashes, sound cutting out, long initial load times, Contract mode being down, etc. Needs a patch and soon.
Overall: This isn't exactly the Hitman game I was wanting but it's still a damn fun game (so far) on it's own. And there are times when I do feel like I'm playing the older games here, just in smaller chunks. If they can clean up some of the technical issues and the checkpoint system I will say this will be in the running for one of my games of the year. Maybe a better name for the game would be Hitman: Chaos Theory. That's what I feel like I'm playing.
I've played halfway through "Run For Your Life":
+ The graphics are gorgeous, probably the best I've seen this year
+ The King of Chinatown mission really did give me the feeling I was playing a Hitman game. Really well done, though a bit smaller in scope.
+ The missions that feel like a Hitman/Splinter Cell hybrid are still pretty fun and satisfying
+ Contracts mode is a fucking blast (when the servers are up)
+ The challenges and unlocks per mission along with the scoring and comparing to your friends really give this game a LOT of replay value
- The checkpoint system is flatout broken. It can't possibly be a design decision to have enemies respawn behind you if you reload a checkpoint. If it is then they should not be designing games. They need to patch this ASAP.
- The disguise system is a mess. I'm not even sure how they'd fix this but making enemies less sensitive to you, especially in terms of distance, would be a good start. The one redeeming part of this system is stumbling upon a rare disguise that allows you to somewhat walk freely without having to worry about that shit.
- The PC version of the game seems chunky and buggy as hell. Framerate issues, crashes, sound cutting out, long initial load times, Contract mode being down, etc. Needs a patch and soon.
Overall: This isn't exactly the Hitman game I was wanting but it's still a damn fun game (so far) on it's own. And there are times when I do feel like I'm playing the older games here, just in smaller chunks. If they can clean up some of the technical issues and the checkpoint system I will say this will be in the running for one of my games of the year. Maybe a better name for the game would be Hitman: Chaos Theory. That's what I feel like I'm playing.
I think they did a decent job making levels like Blackwater Park + Penthouse and Terminus + Upper Floors feel like Blood Money levels, albeit chopped in half.
Surely Absolution is just a side effect of this gen lasting way too long? I mean tech wise, is it even possible to build a game with Blood Money sized levels and Absolution's awesome graphics and have it run at a decent frame rate on current consoles?
Maybe a next-gen Hitman 6 could get back to true Blood Money greatness.
Surely Absolution is just a side effect of this gen lasting way too long? I mean tech wise, is it even possible to build a game with Blood Money sized levels and Absolution's awesome graphics and have it run at a decent frame rate on current consoles?
Maybe a next-gen Hitman 6 could get back to true Blood Money greatness.
LeadenStride
Member
I think there was an interview with somebody from IO a couple of days ago who said that they felt definitely limited with the current consoles.
PC version wins hands down because of tessellated boobies.
What do you mean Bloodmoney sized levels ?
I am sure even the biggest of Bloodmoney's levels would easily fit in, games these days don't load the entire level onto the RAM before each mission but rather stream it dynamically...so size isn't much of a factor as long as it's still a confined area like a hotel or something rather than an open city like GTA or Saint's Row or a huge sandbox like Crysis.
What do you mean Bloodmoney sized levels ?
I am sure even the biggest of Bloodmoney's levels would easily fit in, games these days don't load the entire level onto the RAM before each mission but rather stream it dynamically...so size isn't much of a factor as long as it's still a confined area like a hotel or something rather than an open city like GTA or Saint's Row or a huge sandbox like Crysis.
Hope is excellent. And I didn't even mind the filler missions in between because they weren't fucking "Go from A to B and don't get spotted" missions (or, alternatively, "Kill everyone in the building because disguises don't fucking work" missions). My only wish is that it could all have been handled in a single sandbox, instead of two, but this is still pretty good.
Game gets so much more fun when you're pushing against systems and testing schedules, NPC reactions etc. I wish there was more things to do in the Sandbox but I may just be being nostalgic for Blood Money at this point.
Warming back up on the game. Don't fail me now.
Game gets so much more fun when you're pushing against systems and testing schedules, NPC reactions etc. I wish there was more things to do in the Sandbox but I may just be being nostalgic for Blood Money at this point.
Warming back up on the game. Don't fail me now.
Messofanego
Banned
I love when stealth games put a lot of characterisation and humanity in its NPCs and enemies. It's a great juxtaposition to the cold and amoral assassin protagonist.
Just finished that. It's a shame it comes after Terminus which might already be one of my favorite Hitman levels now just because of all the colorful characters, verticality, and tic-tac-toe of which disguise to use where (Janitor is the answer). True, true that's not a very Hitman level where you can't use disguises because cops everywhere, with lots of cinematic stuff but I still love the library. The most annoying part to me is how there's only way in Shangri La to get past the cops at the end by making them dance.
The blending in the train station isn't quite as refined as Assassin's Creed (funny how both series have inspired each other now), and with no Instinct hints on Expert difficulty couldn't tell if I was hiding properly in a group.
Still had some memorable and funny moments:
Still looks great on medium settings.
Just finished that. It's a shame it comes after Terminus which might already be one of my favorite Hitman levels now just because of all the colorful characters, verticality, and tic-tac-toe of which disguise to use where (Janitor is the answer). True, true that's not a very Hitman level where you can't use disguises because cops everywhere, with lots of cinematic stuff but I still love the library. The most annoying part to me is how there's only way in Shangri La to get past the cops at the end by making them dance.
The blending in the train station isn't quite as refined as Assassin's Creed (funny how both series have inspired each other now), and with no Instinct hints on Expert difficulty couldn't tell if I was hiding properly in a group.
Still had some memorable and funny moments:
Still looks great on medium settings.
blahblah...blah
Member
Hard or Expert? I've completed past Hitmans multiple times and I want to remove as much of the checkpoint/instinct nonsense as possible without making the game impossible.
If you wear this disguise, will the other cops still be able to recognise you?
Go hard, turn off all the instinct options.
whassupbun
Member
Just a heads up, if you're playing this on a console, you might want to back up your save regularly. I'm playing this on the PS3, my save was wiped after the game froze at a loading screen. All stats and progress were reset, except the stuff you unlocked in the Safe House section.
Yeah but I did it slightly differently.
Yeah but I did it slightly differently.
I poisoned the lines of coke on the table, dressed up as the drug dealer and led the King up to the room and watched him snort the contaminated cocaine. Also tried sneaking into the room and waited in the cabinet, just watching, the reaction of the drug dealer when the King OD'ed is priceless.
LeadenStride
Member
Has this happened on the 360 as well? I've only heard about reports of this problem concerning the PS3.
blahblah...blah
Member
Thanks, will do. Now I just need to work out why the sound works perfectly during cutscenes and menus but cuts out the second the prologue mission starts (with the occasional cracking sound)
Interfectum
Member
Yeah I did that. Was great.
Clay Davis
Member
Got the lead pipe on the right side of the level, hid on the crates behind the caravan and threw the lead pipe on the floor behind the caravan. He came over and I used the fiber-wire.
Clay Davis
Member
I got so frustrated on the King of China level last night. Evidently there is a bug in the PC version where the King just stands in the gazebo doing nothing. He wont leave unless something occurs (car alarm, 47 as drug dealer).
The drug dealer too wouldn't leave his room.
I spent an hour trying to figure out how to get the King to do something other than stand there...
The drug dealer too wouldn't leave his room.
I spent an hour trying to figure out how to get the King to do something other than stand there...
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Purist mode has disappointed me due to my preconception that it was going to make Absolution more like how Hitman traditionally played.
Instinct and the on-screen threat detector have become such pivotal elements in Absolution that activating purist mode makes it almost impossible to get anywhere without being detected. Things like being able to:
see your enemies through walls
their patrol paths
who is suspicious of you
your mini-map on-screen
are meant to be a replacement, or at least a more immediate visual representation, of the highly integral map screen of previous Hitman games, as well as the suspicion indicator and compass. By removing all of these HUD elements in purist mode, Absolution truly does become an exercise in blind trial and error.
Now, I raise that last underlined point because people often argue that trial and error is what Hitman has always been, but they are completely wrong. In comparison to Absolution's purist mode, professional mode in previous Hitman games still showed your HUD and allowed access to the map, because it really would have become trial and error if this weren't the case. So difficulty stemmed from being able to navigate through the level, the timing of the guards and distractions, and essentially how well you could manipulate the AI on a macro level. Therefore, the concept of being a skillful Hitman player was more about being a timelord who could always be in the right place at the right time through intricate planning. If you watch speed runs of silent assassin rank and/or professional mode on Youtube, you will see an almost artistic precision in how these players tackle the level - it's basically a type of strategy game in a stealth action game's clothing.
In Absolution, purist mode shifts the focus of difficulty from this macro level planning of old Hitman games, down to the micro level of individual interactions with enemies ala MGS, Ass Creed or Splinter Cell, which isn't nearly as satisfying in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately, the idea of purist mode feels comparable to increasing the difficulty in Splinter Cell: Conviction to make it "more like old Splinter Cell" - it doesn't suddenly make it more like the old games, it simply makes the new gameplay systems much more difficult to cope with. Taken as a difficulty setting, purist is apt because yes it does make it extremely fucking hard, but in no way does it fundamentally change Absolution to make it more like older Hitman titles. There is really nothing "purist" about it in that sense.
Instinct and the on-screen threat detector have become such pivotal elements in Absolution that activating purist mode makes it almost impossible to get anywhere without being detected. Things like being able to:
see your enemies through walls
their patrol paths
who is suspicious of you
your mini-map on-screen
are meant to be a replacement, or at least a more immediate visual representation, of the highly integral map screen of previous Hitman games, as well as the suspicion indicator and compass. By removing all of these HUD elements in purist mode, Absolution truly does become an exercise in blind trial and error.
Now, I raise that last underlined point because people often argue that trial and error is what Hitman has always been, but they are completely wrong. In comparison to Absolution's purist mode, professional mode in previous Hitman games still showed your HUD and allowed access to the map, because it really would have become trial and error if this weren't the case. So difficulty stemmed from being able to navigate through the level, the timing of the guards and distractions, and essentially how well you could manipulate the AI on a macro level. Therefore, the concept of being a skillful Hitman player was more about being a timelord who could always be in the right place at the right time through intricate planning. If you watch speed runs of silent assassin rank and/or professional mode on Youtube, you will see an almost artistic precision in how these players tackle the level - it's basically a type of strategy game in a stealth action game's clothing.
In Absolution, purist mode shifts the focus of difficulty from this macro level planning of old Hitman games, down to the micro level of individual interactions with enemies ala MGS, Ass Creed or Splinter Cell, which isn't nearly as satisfying in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately, the idea of purist mode feels comparable to increasing the difficulty in Splinter Cell: Conviction to make it "more like old Splinter Cell" - it doesn't suddenly make it more like the old games, it simply makes the new gameplay systems much more difficult to cope with. Taken as a difficulty setting, purist is apt because yes it does make it extremely fucking hard, but in no way does it fundamentally change Absolution to make it more like older Hitman titles. There is really nothing "purist" about it in that sense.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
High difficulties fucking suck because the game hasn't been built to accommodate the additional challenge. Instinct that wont recharge, more guards that all spot you faster, thrown into situations where you need instinct the most. It's not 'pure Hitman' by any stretch of the imagination, it's just tedious, annoying, and borderline broken.
Interfectum
Member
Yup. I suspected that when they first announced purist mode. Without the overhead map from previous Hitman games this 'hard mode' is nothing more than pure 100% trial and error. Couple that with the botched disguise system and it's a pretty useless mode.
I was watching the GiantBomb quicklook and I was wondering how the suspicion thing works.
If you're dressed as a cop all the cops are suspicious but what happens when they see you? there's that little yellow indicator but then what? do they immediately start shooting you if they look at you for too long? or is it like Blood Money where everyone just becomes more aware of your presence so you can't do weird things.
If you're dressed as a cop all the cops are suspicious but what happens when they see you? there's that little yellow indicator but then what? do they immediately start shooting you if they look at you for too long? or is it like Blood Money where everyone just becomes more aware of your presence so you can't do weird things.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Yep, probably summed it up better than I did. Instinct is a broken system in my opinion - it needs to recharge to make the disguise system work properly. Stuff like seeing guards through walls or their patrol paths could be made optional (I believe they are), or have some sort of cooldown attached to them... but at the end of the day, you might as well just stick with the old map. There was at least balance with that in the sense that it took you out the action but still remained real time. I have actually taken to just playing the game on easy and disabling a few things in the options.
I think if instinct didn't have any sort of ties to the disguise system, it would be better as well.
SJRB
Gold Member
This is a pet peeve of mine, but I hate how there aren't any "weapon equip" animations. Even GTAIV had Niko reaching down his jacket.
This is 2012 people, weapons and items should not (dis)appear in thin air. In fact, this game should not have magic pockets at all, it's super silly I can carry 5 handguns, a knife and a sniper rifle down my trousers. It should have been more like Max Payne 3: holster two small firearms, carry or drop the rifles.
This game is remarkably oldschool in that regard.
This is 2012 people, weapons and items should not (dis)appear in thin air. In fact, this game should not have magic pockets at all, it's super silly I can carry 5 handguns, a knife and a sniper rifle down my trousers. It should have been more like Max Payne 3: holster two small firearms, carry or drop the rifles.
This game is remarkably oldschool in that regard.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The disguise system now works where whoever you're dressed up as become high risk targets who will quickly identify you as an imposter if you get too close and within their line-of-sight. The yellow bar shows them becoming suspicious, and they'll rapidly enter "suspicious" mode, which marks them as a yellow icon on the map. When they're suspicious they'll follow you for a brief amount of time, and if you're unable to get away quickly they'll keep a lock on and eventually try to arrest you. If you let the yellow suspicion arrow fill completely they'll notice you're an imposter and try to arrest/kill you.
The way you can get out of this is to quickly walk away and lose them before the catch on you're an imposter. Or lead them somewhere and take them out. Or activate instinct before the arrow appears to walk closer and past them by hiding your face (this consumes your instinct meter).
It's a pretty dumb system that doesn't really make any sense and breaks the social stealth formula as it becomes less about hiding in plain sight and more about playing hide-and-sneak. It's also not really well founded in the game world. For example, in King of Chinatown, stealing a chef outfit will make every single chef in the level a high risk target. Every single one. Doesn't matter if they're a chef working at a different stall on the other side of the map and has no interaction or line-of-sight with the chef you took out to get your disguise, or if you found the disguise somewhere without having to subdue anyone. They'll all still become risk targets and notice you as an 'imposter'.
How do disguises work on easy? In Blood Money you were able to throw on an acceptable disguise and just explore the level without alerting anyone, allowing you to figure out alternate paths so that you can come back on another play through and try to hit all those moments smoothly.
well that sounds awful. The best part of Hitman has always been finding a disguise and walking trying to figure things out without the need to constantly hide (like every other stealth game). I could understand if it was a cop or like a small group of people who would recognize an impostor (I actually think that would be an improvement to the series) but picking a common outfit should let you blend into the crowd. That's sort of the point.
I assume purist mode is just broken for the most part then if you don't have instinct to combat the disguise problem?
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Actually, it's not old school, because the older games were more advanced in this regard! You could not keep a big rifle in your inventory (unless it was a sniper rifle in a briefcase) because 47 would have to carry it around in his free hand. If you had to get rid of it to progress without arousing suspicion, you just had to get rid of it. Those were the rules which Absolution is now breaking.
By Blood Money sized levels I meant stuff like House of Cards or Dance with the Devil which had multiple floors and lots of NPCs that could be tracked on the map whether 47 could see them or not. As opposed to Blackwater or Terminus in Absolution where the upper floor of the building is it's own contained level and you can't get back downstairs.
Smaller sandboxes than BM. Still good fun though.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm not playing on purist and probably wont ever, because I'd rather not pull my hair out.
But yeah, the disguise system doesn't really make sense. It's a ticket to access areas, but not blend in with anyone who is under the same costume category, not without instinct. And the level design doesn't really blend the two together.
Take the second mission for example (spoilering, though I won't go into too many specifics):
You need to get to a specific hotel floor, which is packed with thug guards. Dress a thug guard and sneak in? Yeah, good luck with that, especially if you have no instinct. Three goons right at the elevator door. Goons in every hallway, some paroling. If you have no instinct and you happen to be wearing one of their outfits as you come up you basically have to trial and error a goon-free path right as the doors open, because one step in the wrong direction and they'll immediately start noticing something is up with you.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
So, should I buy this game or save my money and wait for FarCry3?
If I could force Io to patch something, it would be for them to implement a difficulty level called 'Classic'. Here's the criteria:
- instinct as it is implemented is removed. The only thing the instinct button does is let you see through walls / highlight npcs and enemies (essentially a replacement for a full map)
-make the disguise system work like Blood Money
- remove checkpoints, allow a set amount of quick saves. If you use no saves it nets you a higher ranking.
- instinct as it is implemented is removed. The only thing the instinct button does is let you see through walls / highlight npcs and enemies (essentially a replacement for a full map)
-make the disguise system work like Blood Money
- remove checkpoints, allow a set amount of quick saves. If you use no saves it nets you a higher ranking.
SlasherJPC
Banned
How do you do this? I could never figure it out. I followed the guy and he went down some stairs and I knocked him out and took his clothes but couldn't figure out the rest.
The English Conquistador
Member
Yup, bang on there.
Edit: I reinstalled Blood Money last night after playing some more Absolution. The difference is night and day. For one, the disguise system in that game makes total sense. You change clothes and blend in. Only when you do crazy shit (like attacking people) or you're seen going into areas you're not allowed to, does your disguise then become useless. But that makes total sense.
I started this on hard...bad mistake. Enemies seem to know who you are almost immediately. Within two-three seconds without a doubt. So I turned it down to normal, still the same shit. Like EatChildren mentioned earlier, the second level is a fucking joke. As soon as the doors open and you walk forward, you're slowly being suspected. Instinct only goes so far, so once that's gone, you're just fucked.
I don't understand how IO could a crucial and "Hitman" mechanic so wrong.