Horizon Zero Dawn SPOILERS Thread
- Thread starter vivekTO
- Start date
motorised mallard
Member
What suprised me was that the world actually did end. What I expected to be a "standard", "machines are "just" going to kill humanity and they got stopped by something in the end" plot. Boy it sure was not that simple in the end. No happy endings for anyone involved.
No star childs, no Neo to save the planet, just an insane race against time to build a system to reboot life on the planet.
Sounds like what Trump and the GOP are doing right now. omg
Yeah, that was my favorite part of all of it.
I also loved the reasoning for Aloy to be a "chosen one"character. They needed someone with a genetic imprint that could open the locks. It's a logical explanation that fits in with the world well.
Gaia missing megafauna and being saddened by that during her creation was another fantastic, logical, and surprisingly emotional moment. It was a brilliant explanation for something like robot dinosaurs.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I also think it's interesting that it seems like Aloy does have some internal conflict. Throughout much of the game her main motivation is to find out who she is and who her mother is. She wanted vindication for being called "motherless" and by all accounts the nora were kind of right. Aloy is a straight up clone.
Which is odd because the alpha of eleuthia was vehemently against cloning.
I found it odd that revenge for Rost didn't even seem like a major motivation for her since by all accounts he was the closest thing she had as a family.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
As I go through and grab all the metal flowers and hear some of the things that Aloy says when she picks them up I am now convinced that they are GAIA's memorial to Elisabet
everyday math
Banned
The flowers only recently started appearing after Gaia exploded. So it's possible it was a parting gift by Gaia or one of the other subroutines.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I wish I took this screenshot before I collected the flower, but there was a flower in the middle of this triangle, which just immediately reminded me of the ending. I'm sure it appears throughout the world too.
I assume Gaia found her body when she was rebuilding the world and planted that triangle formation around her.
Edit:
I guess it appears for all the flowers. lol
broscientific
Member
Was it ever explained why Rost was an outcast?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yes, the matriarch tells his story after you become the anointed. Basically, some guys came and started kidnapping and killing Nora for an unknown reason. They left, knowing that Nora would never leave - they actually murdered his daughter close to the border as a way to taunt him and he decided to go after them and hunt them down one by one even if it meant becoming an outcast. He came back to die near his home, but another Nora decided to break the rules and pull him back and heal him. Rather than exile him again, they decide to make him an outcast and allow him to live in Nora lands on the condition that he never tells anyone that they made an exception for him. It's why he never tells you himself.
MegaSackman
Member
Yeah, talk to Teersa before going into the final mission, she'll explain it to you. Pretty good story btw.
Echelon079
Member
I either want a surprise prequel set during the defense agaisnt the swarm, or just prequel dlc of Makers Rest, ala Killzone-esque. That would amazing.
broscientific
Member
Thanks - I missed talking to her. Puts into context how he took in Aloy as a daughter, too.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, Aloy actually tells her that it was cruel to give him a girl to raise after his daughter's death, which I appreciated.
I'm about 1/3 done with the game so far and I just now came to the realization that the Nora tribe likely got their name from everyone's favorite secret mountain base in Colorado, NORAD.
Could it be that the mountain that Aloy was discovered in is actually Cheyenne Mountain?
Could it be that the mountain that Aloy was discovered in is actually Cheyenne Mountain?
Button
Banned
everyday math
Banned
Did you get this from Reddit?
Yup, super detailed long explanation from Teersa. Rost is such a badass.
Woah
Vincent Alexander
Member
Interesting idea, but I'd need some convincing as to where they actually saw the name NORAD at to name themselves Nora.
I was impressed because Aloy being a clone seemed very obvious to everyone (I think). It was so obvious that at points I kept trying to figure out how she couldn't be a clone. But nope...that is what it is. On paper, the idea seems really boring. But the execution is so damn well-done, and our slow discovery of why she is a clone is damn smart. By the time Gaia reveals that Aloy is without a doubt a clone, you are going through a roller coaster of emotions and revelations that the clone idea itself is just one idea of many that are going on at once. I mean...that Gaia holo-log when the subroutines are corrupted goes from dire and bleak...to hopeful! To 'oh my god, Hades just corrupted the alpha registry. we are boned again,' to then finally land on 'fuck it, I have faith in you. Elizabet would find a way. Go kick some ass and take some names.' BOOM.
And I'm left goin':
That had been my thought once I saw the city that was supposed to be Colorado Springs but then USRC kinda threw me off on the idea.
On the topic of the mountain I've wondered why that Horus unit was there and appeared to be attempting to breach the mountain. I wasn't sure if they (the swarm) were meant to have known about the sites or if it was just happening by chance. Perhaps it was "checking" the mountain after attacking USRC but that sounds like I'm grasping for an idea.
Berserker976
Member
Holy crap, I just found the glyph for the Forbidden West. I really hope they're setting that up to be where the sequel takes place, because it sounds absolutely incredible. I recommend everyone check that one out.
If you haven't found it yourself, it's in a small boat docked in Blazon Arch, the settlement due south of Sunfall.
If you haven't found it yourself, it's in a small boat docked in Blazon Arch, the settlement due south of Sunfall.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Isn't it based in Colorado ?
ShemhazaiX
Member
Nah, metal flowers were part of the Demeter subroutine that was designed to recreate plant life. Giant hints in the poetry and the fact that the alpha in charge of Demeter was a poetry fanatic based on what we saw in data logs.
MegaSackman
Member
Yeah, I'm super convinced that the sequel will be in the Forbidden West but they'll need to do something to find actual tribes or people there. At the very least we'll visit the area for a time.
They tease it a lot, can't wait for what's to come.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I wish I took this screenshot before I collected the flower, but there was a flower in the middle of this triangle, which just immediately reminded me of the ending. I'm sure it appears throughout the world too.
I assume Gaia found her body when she was rebuilding the world and planted that triangle formation around her.
Edit:
I guess it appears for all the flowers. lol
I took it as symbolism that Elisabeth, in her power armor, was a metal flower...
The game using familiar imagery to convey a poignant moment.
Thought of it during my drive-in to work this morning lol
I was trying to think of a good reason in-game for it to be revealed but I'm not even finished with the main story yet so this is a dangerous thread for me.
It'd be kinda like in Star Trek I with V'ger. Proto-Nora finds the mountain complex entrance, sees the acronym displayed somewhere but due the thousands(?) or so years of nature the D in NORAD is obscured/missing/etc.
Doesn't sound like they ever explain the origins in the game narrative, but this is my head-canon.
Zantetsuken
Member
Very interesting! It would be a very detailed and multi-layered story on GG's part. Excellent either way.
I'm just tripping off of Sylens. It just doesn't feel that knowledge is all he wants. We've seen the ambition of men can ruin just about anything, even if the intentions may be good. How did Hades come to escape? He reminds me of the homunculus in the flask from FMA now. Was Hades rebooted as well after being struck with the spear? This would make a great movie one day.
everyday math
Banned
Sorry wasn't accusing you. It was just almost word for word on Reddit. I was like did I find darths secret Reddit account that he cheating on us withThought of it during my drive-in to work this morning lol
I was trying to think of a good reason in-game for it to be revealed but I'm not even finished with the main story yet so this is a dangerous thread for me.
It'd be kinda like in Star Trek I with V'ger. Proto-Nora finds the mountain complex entrance, sees the acronym displayed somewhere but due the thousands(?) or so years of nature the D in NORAD is obscured/missing/etc.
Doesn't sound like they ever explain the origins in the game narrative, but this is my head-canon.
DreadfulOmen
Member
yea they did. It's a good story too. i think they called him a death seeker.
Sorry wasn't accusing you. It was just almost word for word on Reddit. I was like did I find darths secret Reddit account that he cheating on us with
oh gotcha, no worries math.
tbh i'm not surprised someone else came up with the theory already but now I just can't disassociate the idea from the game lmao
everyday math
Banned
The flower guy said they started noticing them sprouting 20years ago.
2:34
It's very likely that's what the original intended use for was, but why are they sprouting again?
Vincent Alexander
Member
So I was looking through logs again like I've been doing when I'm bored, and came across something that I think is interesting. If you read each of the Text Datapoint logs you get from the Cauldrons, it looks like something tried to hack Sigma and Rho, but they fended it off.
Remember the Code Expert in a log told Ted, "The protocols use polyphasic entangled waveforms. Quantum encryption, Black Quartz stuff, way beyond military grade. That's what you demanded, so that's what we delivered." This is why the machines are so hard to crack, and it can't be done in the humans lifetime before the machines kill them. So if you read the Sigma log:
However, I'm still trying to interpret the final log:
1) Does the name of the log imply this override went out to all Machines/Cauldrons in the West United States?
2) Why is the source HEPHAESTUS? Isn't the Cauldron a part of HEPHAESTUS?
Sorry for long post. I just can't stop jumping back into this game to find more things to discuss with everyone.
Remember the Code Expert in a log told Ted, "The protocols use polyphasic entangled waveforms. Quantum encryption, Black Quartz stuff, way beyond military grade. That's what you demanded, so that's what we delivered." This is why the machines are so hard to crack, and it can't be done in the humans lifetime before the machines kill them. So if you read the Sigma log:
You can see Sigma utilizing this polyphasing to alter it's code and avoid the intrusion. Rho goes through a similar thing, but after it phase-shifts it's code, something breaches it's firewall instead. It then states:
Really awesome seeing how smart these subroutines are, and how they protect themselves. However, if you view Theta, it's countermeasure is Inactive, so it fails to protect itself at all. And Xi attempts to phase-shift, but it fails to keep the intruder out. You can then see, especially in Xi, that whatever is breaking in is adding weapons to the machines.
However, I'm still trying to interpret the final log:
1) Does the name of the log imply this override went out to all Machines/Cauldrons in the West United States?
2) Why is the source HEPHAESTUS? Isn't the Cauldron a part of HEPHAESTUS?
Sorry for long post. I just can't stop jumping back into this game to find more things to discuss with everyone.
broscientific
Member
GAIA mentions in her log that the unknown signal that freed HADES also altered the other processes, and that HADES did something to sever her connection from them. I interpreted this as HADES (or the unknown signal) giving them agency - remember when you first learn about GAIA and Zero Dawn, Elisabet says that GAIA is a true AI but the others are not. So basically, when HADES got free, all of the others became unpredictable, hence why HEPHAESTUS started acting on its own. Aloy mentions when you first get this log, that this is the source of the Derangement. Basically the rogue routine now saw humans as a threat and this is why there are machines specifically for killing like Sawtooths, Thunderjaws, etc.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Word, word. What I find interesting about the logs though is that if Hephaestus went rogue, he shouldn't be an intruder in his own cauldron, right? So I'm interpreting the intrusion on all the cauldrons as pre-corruption of the subroutines. Whatever corrupted them was trying to get into the cauldrons prior. Then the final log I see as the corruption itself finally hitting, because in that instance we see Hephaestus itself receiving the "CULL" order from Hades.
Or I am digging way too much.
It really is now that I think about it...On paper, it comes off like "Yeah. That is cool. There are robot dinosaurs with guns because that would be fun to fight." But the fact the game actually has a not-okay, but rather a great reasoning behind it is just...impressive. Beyond belief.
broscientific
Member
Well I think that's a plausible theory. I guess we really have no way of interpreting it without knowing the source of the signal, which - what the hell could it even be? I know some people in this thread theorized it could be that spacecraft they alluded to in datapoints, but it doesn't seem like a good fit. My money's on some humans somehow surviving in another shelter somewhere who aren't happy for some reason- maybe related to Ted?
Berserker976
Member
I love discussing the lore of this game. I've missed doing this ever since MGS died a dog's death.
Regarding the logs, I think it's a log of the automated foundry, and the repeated incursion attempts were HEPHAESTUS trying to gain access until the final log, where it gets in and changes the build priorities of all the US west cauldrons (good catch on that btw). As for why the cauldron would be fighting off an incursion from itself, well... my theory is that it saw rogue AI HEPHAESTUS as a completely different entity from GAIA with HEPHAESTUS subroutine. So it was more like HEPHAESTUS trying to reestablish a connection with its arms and legs.
I could be off base with this, but I don't think HADES necessarily corrupted all of the other AIs. HEPHAESTUS initiating the derangement read more like an AI that was suddenly isolated, and went into a sort of panicked self-preservation mode. It didn't have GAIA to report that the humans destroying the machines isn't a threat to the larger ecosystem, and could only make judgments from the limited data the machines were reporting, which was that humans were destroying them.
The crazy Banuk shaman quest giver, who drinks "machine blood", sort of tells Aloy the history of the machines. One of the things he says is that some of the nastier machines were created because humans were hunting them. I think he said this after I gave him some Stalker blood to drink and he said the Stalker served no purpose other than to kill. There was quite a lot more to it than that, but that was the gist of it.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Interesting...I always thought of the Cauldrons as part of Hephaestus, but it makes sense that the Cauldrons were simply the tools of Gaia. When that command was broken, as you said, Hephaestus was doing it's best to break in and take control itself. Like you said...re-establish control with it's arms and legs.
As for the corruption, I think whatever corrupted Hades also corrupted the other AIs. However, the corruption really was only damning in the hands of Hades because it is the only subroutine programmed with the ability to take control of the other subroutines from Gaia in order to initiate a culling, if it needed. The other AIs being "corrupted" seems more of an issue simply because it severed Gaia's control of them, and they would work independently without the brain, per se.
GAIA said the signal was trying to free the other ai from her control. She isolated it in hades but as she blew up prime she said hades severed the chains she had and they were all free. I think the signal was from the apollo ai on Odyssey. It gaining sentience over the 900 years and working its way back from the edge of the solar system. Returning to discover gaia and the other ai, it would see the other ai as her slaves and try to free them. The next game will almost definitely be about rebuilding GAIA. But she needs to regain control of the other ai. The way GAIA described the situation, the ecosystem wasn't fully restored.
MegaSackman
Member
I jumped out of my seat when this happened:
Best moment of the game.
Yeah, hypest moment of the game although I was so ready to take on those corruptors haha. "Is that all you got, Helis?"
Ardenyal
Member
Drinking machine blood, only caring about knowledge, Sylens being so emotionally blunt, weird machine body modifications, being a bit too adept at communicating with machines... I'm putting my tin foil hat on and say that the banuk and Sylens are machines/hybrids. Maybe former servants in the different facilities.
STILLethal
Member
I'm just glad the story/characters were actually interesting, makes us want to know what'll happen next and we can discuss it thoroughly. Can't even imagine what Horizon 2 or Death Stranding will be like...what a time to be alive
Quote
Member
Yeah, it wasn't good.
Hopefully its not cannon.