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How Should Tifa Be Handled In Final Fantasy VII Remake?

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N

NZerker12

Member
SOLDIER said:
Tifa-portrait-viigb.png



tifa_1280_1024-794754.jpg
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As long as you keep her original outfit but make her look like any of these I'll have no problem.
 
K

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
uncelestial said:
If you really need to have it explained to you that calling certain body types "gross" and "awkward" is not progressive, maybe you need to take a step back. You didn't even say, "I think that body type is to serve the presumed male gaze and it turns her into a sexual object, which is disappointing." You said you looked at her body and it was gross. You're doing feminism wrong. Go back to school.
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Maybe you should follow the conversation instead of singling out one post of mine? We've already discussed this. My comments were mainly directed the CG representation of her proportions. Not that boobs are gross, or any degree of body shaming. But sure, you figured me out from one post.

Congrats.
 
M

Mango The Magician

Banned
Scrooge McDuck said:
In understand that. Remake would always be divisive because everyone would have different preferences about what should change and what should remain. I just want to remind people that no one opinion could be the ultimate truth here.



I think the point of a remake is to update any element that needs to be updated to bring it up to current audience's sensibility. To say that graphic is the only thing that needs to be modernized is really arbitrary.

You do realize that this very same argument could be applied to everything, including graphics? Altering the game to fit the high-polygon "sensibilities" of "modern" gamers? Why a remake at all, then?
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Sure, but no one is advocating for keeping the graphics the same, as everyone expects them to be better, and really that's all most people wanted in a remake, the same game just better looking, if you start to change too much or deviate too far from the source material it ceases to be what people wanted and just becomes a pandering mess.
Karkador said:
So don't do a remake, then
Click to expand...
Or just do a remake without changing things that people like simply out of fear that it might offend someone somewhere.
 
G

Galactic Barret

Member
Terrell said:
No, people aren't offended by FFVII as it existed in the 90s. They're embarrassed by it for being quite socially backwards compared to today, much in the same way they're embarrassed about racial and social caricatures in Disney and Looney Tunes cartoons. But many take it as "a sign of the times".

But when you remake something - not re-release, REMAKE - and aren't taking the current world around you into consideration, while actually considering such caricatures as something that's still worthy of a cheap laugh, then yeah, I have a bit of a reason for offence.
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I can't really argue with you on this; it affects you personally in a way that I could never feel myself. I apologize.

To be honest, its not about it being funny. It wasn't ever something to get a laugh out of (it was never really funny to me, truthfully), more a brief description of the area they were entering. Even as I respond, I'm struggling to remember the humor (CPR by a half-naked gentleman? Nope. Group Hot Tub party? Nah), but the situations, like Big Bro, happen in real life. So, if they were updating on that basis, there are things they could pull from real life that would serious, yet still be relevant to the story. Would that be ok? Or does it just need to go, period?
 
T

Terrell

Member
Mango The Magician said:
Sure, but no one is advocating for keeping the graphics the same, as everyone expects them to be better, and really that's all most people wanted in a remake, the same game just better looking, if you start to change too much or deviate too far from the source material it ceases to be what people wanted and just becomes a pandering mess.
Click to expand...

A remake with absolutely no changes except to visuals is like the definition of pandering.

Galactic Barret said:
I can't really argue with you on this; it affects you personally in a way that I could never feel myself. I apologize.

To be honest, its not about it being funny. It wasn't ever something to get a laugh out of (it was never really funny to me, truthfully), more a brief description of the area they were entering. Even as I respond, I'm struggling to remember the humor (CPR by a half-naked gentleman? Nope. Group Hot Tub party? Nah), but the situations, like Big Bro, happen in real life. So, if they were updating on that basis, there are things they could pull from real life that would serious, yet still be relevant to the story. Would that be ok? Or does it just need to go, period?
Click to expand...

The scene in question is a rainbow-adorned gentleman's bath, featuring a burly moustached man and his cohorts taking off Cloud's clothes, putting him in the bath with all of them, hitting on him after Cloud has noted his discomfort, while referring to himself as "daddy" and how he'll be "lonely" when you leave, then giving you bikini undergarments. It hits all the "high" notes of the Japanese homosexual stereotype, minus the makeup they're usually adorned in for no reason or the effeminate voice because the game had no voice acting.

Yeah, it's kinda got a huge amount of problems from start to finish. They would have to change that whole scene until it became unrecognizable before it could become something passably inoffensive in a modern game.
 
U

uncelestial

Member
KoopaTheCasual said:
Maybe you should follow the conversation instead of singling out one post of mine? We've already discussed this. My comments were mainly directed the CG representation of her proportions. Not that boobs are gross, or any degree of body shaming. But sure, you figured me out from one post.

Congrats.
Click to expand...
I read all your posts. You still need to take a step back. Deal with it.
 
K

Klossen

Banned
I feel like the realism argument is only relevant to people when it's supportive of one's beliefs. Sure, it's not realistic that someone with Tifa's strength (or Cloud's for that matter) have that muscle size. But her immense strength isn't realistic to begin with. Where does the realism argument start and where does it stop? If we want realism, then Cloud should be a Hulk-figure really considering how he swings that massive sword of his.

If we're in agreement that a JRPG titled Final Fantasy isn't bound to the confines of reality, then I don't see why Tifa's character design has to an exception.
 
C

Corpekata

Banned
SolarMystic said:
What is normal size though? Personally they look pretty big in that pic.
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They are. That's what's hilarious about all the dramatic people in here acting like people are suggesting she'll be flat as a board when she'll still be one of the more well endowed Final Fantasy characters in almost all of the suggested pictures.
 
M

munchie64

Member
Honestly with Nomura at the helm, even if everything else sucks, the character designs will probably be great. I'll go with whatever we get.
 
G

Galactic Barret

Member
Karkador said:
If you're still playing the original FF7 to this day, every year, I'm going to guess that the remake is not really intended for you; it's probably more so for a new generation of kids who wouldn't touch a PS1 game.
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I actually feel like the fans of the original are whats making this game happen today. If it wasn't because of fan demand we could have any other FF being remade right now. I know it would be easier to remake FFVI and some would prefer it.

HeelPower said:
Personally,I want her to get a good treatment in this game because its she's a really prominent female character.

The new generation of gamers and journalists shouldn't label her as a "big breasted bimbo" and not much else.

There's a lot more going for this character ,and I think Square will get it right,hopefully.Appearance plays a large part into it.
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You see, I feel the opposite is what Square should be striving for. People have been told their whole life not to judge a book by its cover, and that would fly right in the face of that. Her endering qualities should show through as you play the game. Then, her appearance is less of what is spoken about and more about her feats on the battlefield. If her character shines, her appearance won't matter.
 
A

Arcayne

Member
Philippo said:
This is perfect.

Original look + normal sized breasts.
Click to expand...

Hardly normal sized breasts. Consider for a second that she's wearing a 'high neck' tshirt, which typically tones down/down plays the breast area in real life. The fact that we're even seeing shirt creasing and protrusion around her breasts means she definitely does not just have 'normal sized' boobs. If she were wearing a 'low cut' shirt, like a v-neck, it would be very apparent what she has.

Or she just has a large bra that she stuffs to achieve that look.

edit: not dogging on you, I like this rendition as much as the next person, but your comment on "normal sized breasts" had me rolling my eyeballs.
 
Dice//

Dice//

Banned
I wouldn't mind if they made her tits a normal/"average" size.
Might weed out some of the many Internet comments that drool all over her. Tifa is the ACTUAL stereotype of a character being too sexy and more commentary goes to her design first and then her actual character (which, to her everlasting credit, has her
taking care of a catatonic, poisoned, fucked up Cloud for a spell)
.

I don't begrudge a sexy design, and I like that her working a bar means she might dress in something a little "less restrictive", but it's pretty ridiculous looking in full realistic 3D and for a physically active brawler. ...It also looks pretty dated by now. Barret's gun doesn't look the same, so I wonder if the character designs are going to get some overhaul (and if so, to what extent)

tifa_1280_1024-794754.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm guessing one reason her outfit changed so drastically in AC was for her almost zero-gravity fights making constant upskirt shots somewhat problematic and in attempt to appeal to a broader crowd; I wouldn't be surprised if they 'altered it' for FF7-R.

I find both outfits suit the occasion (one clearly epitomizing sexual appeal more than the other), but I look forward to what they decide to do, what changes, if at all.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Scrooge McDuck said:
Likewise the same joke that was funny in 1997 could be offensive instead in 2017. Therefore the joke is old and needs to be changed.
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Man, I really don't agree with this. I hesitate to even make the comparison, but judging "acceptability" and saying we have to change art to match the times sounds a lot like the people that want to take the word "nigger" out of Huck Finn.


Arcayne said:
edit: not dogging on you, I like this rendition as much as the next person, but your comment on "normal sized breasts" had me rolling my eyeballs.
Click to expand...
Another person saying large breasts aren't normal

smh
 
G

Galactic Barret

Member
Terrell said:
The scene in question is a rainbow-adorned gentleman's bath, featuring a burly moustached man and his cohorts taking off Cloud's clothes, putting him in the bath with all of them, hitting on him after Cloud has noted his discomfort, while referring to himself as "daddy" and how he'll be "lonely" when you leave, then giving you bikini undergarments. It hits all the "high" notes of the Japanese homosexual stereotype, minus the makeup they're usually adorned in for no reason or the effeminate voice because the game had no voice acting.

Yeah, it's kinda got a huge amount of problems from start to finish. They would have to change that whole scene until it became unrecognizable before it could become something passably inoffensive in a modern game.
Click to expand...
Ok, that I could see being changed. Its been a while since I've been to the Group Room. The $&#@ Room is better from a story point of view.

Not that it makes it better, but it is optional. When you choose the other room, nothing close to that happens. Almost like you got CPR from a bouncer.

Actually, isn't the entire Honeybee Inn optional? I don't know; I'm always in there.
timetokill said:
Man, I really don't agree with this. I hesitate to even make the comparison, but judging "acceptability" and saying we have to change art to match the times sounds a lot like the people that want to take the word "nigger" out of Huck Finn.



Another person saying large breasts aren't normal

smh
Click to expand...
WHOA!

People wanted to censor Huck Finn? Savages.

Please don't ever ever ever use that word again. Thanks
 
H

HeelPower

Member
Galactic Barret said:
You see, I feel the opposite is what Square should be striving for. People have been told their whole life not to judge a book by its cover, and that would fly right in the face of that. Her endering qualities should show through as you play the game. Then, her appearance is less of what is spoken about and more about her feats on the battlefield. If her character shines, her appearance won't matter.
Click to expand...

While I agree with this,its also true that many people don't look past the outward appearance unless compelled to do so.

How you present a character can skew general perception to a great degree,especially when its female character.
 
Dice//

Dice//

Banned
timetokill said:
Man, I really don't agree with this. I hesitate to even make the comparison, but judging "acceptability" and saying we have to change art to match the times sounds a lot like the people that want to take the word "nigger" out of Huck Finn.



Another person saying large breasts aren't normal

smh
Click to expand...


Hucklebarry Finn is a classic piece of literature. A joke and a literary classic from a specific era kinda operate on a different level, I think.

And sure large breasts CAN be normal; sure is weird just how often big breasts happen in videogames though, and tight outfits, and armor that doesn't quite cover all.

And c'mon, Tifa's illustration go into cow udder levels of "big". She got Kate Upton beat and she's famous for hers.
 
A

Arcayne

Member
timetokill said:
Man, I really don't agree with this. I hesitate to even make the comparison, but judging "acceptability" and saying we have to change art to match the times sounds a lot like the people that want to take the word "nigger" out of Huck Finn.



Another person saying large breasts aren't normal

smh
Click to expand...

Did you even read my whole post. Well done extrapolating, well done.
 
B

BradleyLove

Member
Seanspeed said:
They are, though. Regardless of what you think they 'should' be. And you're kidding yourself if you think there's any other reason she was designed this way.

Anyways, this thread has made me excited for whatever they do with her. I don't usually get into all these 'waifu' things or discussions, but I've always had a thing for Tifa ever since playing this when I was younger.
Click to expand...

#neogafshitposts

Large breasts aren't inherently sexual. Your statement says more about you than you think.

Utterly ridiculous.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
BradleyLove said:
#neogafshitposts

Large breasts aren't inherently sexual. Your statement says more about you than you think.

Utterly ridiculous.
Click to expand...

But they are? It's the entire point why women have larger breasts (than primates for example) in the first place.

It's just silly to complain about it if it more important how the game is showing them. And it shouldn't be a problem if the remake does the same things as the original .
 
K

Karkador

Banned
Klossen said:
I feel like the realism argument is only relevant to people when it's supportive of one's beliefs. Sure, it's not realistic that someone with Tifa's strength (or Cloud's for that matter) have that muscle size. But her immense strength isn't realistic to begin with. Where does the realism argument start and where does it stop? If we want realism, then Cloud should be a Hulk-figure really considering how he swings that massive sword of his.
Click to expand...

It's pretty well understood that lots of weird, impossible and exaggerated things color the world and characters of FF7. What sucks is that Tifa is the girl you have in your party for most of the game, arguably making her the main female lead, and yet her major feature is breasts. The reasoning is pretty obvious.

Even in the FF7 world logic of "we need these giant weapons because every threat in this world is a big crazy thing", you'd think they'd give her huge fists or something instead.
 
P

plasmawave

Banned
PdotMichael said:
But they are? It's the entire point why women have larger breasts (than primates for example) in the first place.

It's just silly to complain about it if it more important how the game is showing them. And it shouldn't be a problem if the remake does the same things as the original .
Click to expand...

Large breasts, small breasts, they are both just as sexual.
Some people just prefer one over another.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Dice// said:
Hucklebarry Finn is a classic piece of literature. A joke and a literary classic from a specific era kinda operate on a different level, I think.

And sure large breasts CAN be normal; sure is weird just how often big breasts happen in videogames though, and tight outfits, and armor that doesn't quite cover all.

And c'mon, Tifa's illustration go into cow udder levels of "big". She got Kate Upton beat and she's famous for hers.
Click to expand...

Sure, large-breasted women are certainly over-represented in videogames. No doubt about it. But the undercurrent of "we need to make her breasts smaller to make her more realistic" or "I can't take her seriously with such large breasts" is a problem that affects real life large-breasted women. It's a part of the culture that is very problematic so I'm trying to get people to adjust their thinking a bit.

Sure, it's a joke, but it's within a videogame many would argue is a "classic" as well. Now, there's the argument that it's a remake and, as such, changing it for the remake only (whilst leaving the original) is one to entertain. I'm just commenting that the idea of "change something to fit with the times" puts me on guard, as a rule.


Arcayne said:
Did you even read my whole post. Well done extrapolating, well done.
Click to expand...
I did read it. Your post goes to great lengths to indicate how her breast size is not normal.
 
G

Galactic Barret

Member
HeelPower said:
While I agree with this,its also true that many people don't look past the outward appearance unless compelled to do so.

How you present a character can skew general perception to a great,especially when its female character.
Click to expand...
While also true, the only way to stop it from happening is to stop trying to stop it. Give them more to talk about, something badass. After I saw AC, every thought in my head revolved around Tifa fucking shit up. In a church. She hit Yooz(?) with like 3 limit breaks. Shes a fucking problem.
 
Infinite_Daremo

Infinite_Daremo

Member
No cares about her appearance really. Just remove the shitty mini game from her limit break and it's all good.

And fix Vincent's garbage limit breaks while they're at it.
 
T

Terrell

Member
Galactic Barret said:
Ok, that I could see being changed. Its been a while since I've been to the Group Room. The $&#@ Room is better from a story point of view.

Not that it makes it better, but it is optional. When you choose the other room, nothing close to that happens. Almost like you got CPR from a bouncer.

Actually, isn't the entire Honeybee Inn optional? I don't know; I'm always in there.
Click to expand...

Honeybee Inn is not optional, only the clothes you collect to make a passable woman are. And while there are ways that they could make that whole story sequence funny without offence, it'll be a delicate tightrope to make it less of a cheap gag at a sub-culture's expense. And it's already confirmed that it's in, so we can only hope that they make the best of it while keeping the spirit of the scene intact.

I liked the idea someone mentioned of Cloud ending up looking like Lightning when he ends up crossdressing, though. They could change the tone of that scene so it's a bit less "hurr hurr guy in a dress" and more "hurr hurr it's Lightning in another Square Enix game", or something else. Because I'd laugh at something like that so long as it wasn't about the cross-dressing itself.
 
S

Scrooge McDuck

Member
timetokill said:
Man, I really don't agree with this. I hesitate to even make the comparison, but judging "acceptability" and saying we have to change art to match the times sounds a lot like the people that want to take the word "nigger" out of Huck Finn.
Click to expand...

I think this really depends on what and who the version of the book is for. A Huck Finn book with "nigger" would always exist and you could get that version instead if you needed it, if you thought that's important.

I wouldn't agree either is one they they decided to obliterate the old version of Final Fantasy VII.
 
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