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[excelsiorlef]

Thanks for letting me know that my experience isn't real. Much appreciated Mr. Wonk.

Ms. Wonk...

Point is there is nothing wrong or hubrisitic about being a wonk.

It's literally just knowing your shit.

Wonks are what government severely lacks.

Clinton is a wonk but not all wonks are like Clinton.

 

[Odrion]

so his proposals seem pretty interesting, let's see what wikipedia has to say about raymond buckley:

State legislator

His first election to state office was in 1986, where he was elected to the General Court to represent Manchester's 8th ward. As a state legislator, he served 18 years, many as the Party Whip. He successfully sponsored over 150 bills into law, including a 1999 repeal of the state's ban on adoption by homosexual couples,[10] a repeal of state taxes on hospitals, and anti-bullying legislation.[9] In 1998, he gained some notoriety when he led a delegation of N.H. House Democrats to walk out on a speech given by Newt Gingrich.[11][12] That same year, he also won the Lawrence O'Brien Award, an award given by the Democratic National Committee to its top party members. In 2002, he gained additional national prominence when his party's phone lines were jammed by a Republican Party consulting firm.[13]

While a legislator, he has also frequently worked on presidential campaigns for prominent Democratic candidates. He campaigned for Michael Dukakis in 1988, and notably in 2003–2004, he was a member of Senator Joseph Lieberman's campaign staff. His own personal vehicle, a Chrysler PT Cruiser decorated as the "JoeMobile", served as a prominent symbol for that campaign.[9]

He is credited with leading his party to prominence in New Hampshire, a former Republican stronghold,[14] although he has also been chastised for controversial fundraising efforts that have led to that rise.[15] Despite being leading the party to prominence, he has also been known to be at the center of several bitter intra-party feuds, including a 1981 attempt to impeach then Party Chair Richard Boyer and a divisive campaign for the top party spot in 1988 against Joe Grandmaison, which Buckley would lose.[9]

okay he sounds pretty cool.

Post-legislature career

Buckley left the New Hampshire House of Representatives in 2004 to run for the Executive Council of New Hampshire against incumbent Ray Wieczorek. A bitter campaign ensued, fueled by a long political history. The Republican Wieczorek had been the mayor of Manchester and Buckley had been an Alderman, and the two had fought frequently. Buckley lost the election, but was immediately hired as the Executive Director of the Senate Democratic Caucus. Under his campaign leadership, the Democratic Party gained control of the New Hampshire Senate, a situation that had only occurred for one and a half terms since the nineteenth century.[9]

He is a prominent member of the state Gay Marriage Commission, attempting to reach a bi-partisan agreement on a hot-button issue.[16][17]

okay he sounds pretty fucking cool

State Democratic Party chair

Buckley was the frontrunner to become the chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party in 2007. He temporarily ended his bid for chairman in January of that year, following allegations of possessing child pornography leveled by Buckley's former housemate, Rep. Steve Vaillancourt.

aw shit ABORT ABORT ABORT ABORT ABORT

 

[grumble]

Politicians becoming multi millionaires by giving speeches to banks is not a problem to Dean.

Honestly, who gives a shit?

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Ms. Wonk...

Point is there is nothing wrong or hubrisitic about being a wonk.

It's literally just knowing your shit.

Wonks are what government severely lacks.

Clinton is a wonk but not all wonks are like Clinton.

This sounds like wrassling talk.
Is it possible to wonk yourself into a shoot?
Who are the jabronies of US politics?

 

[excelsiorlef]

This sounds like wrassling talk.
Is it possible to wonk yourself into a shoot?
Who are the jabronies of US politics?

Republicans...

 

[kirblar]

Ms. Wonk...

Point is there is nothing wrong or hubrisitic about being a wonk.

It's literally just knowing your shit.

Wonks are what government severely lacks.

Clinton is a wonk but not all wonks are like Clinton.

A lot of people don't like it when people know their stuff because the stuff they know tells them something they don't want to hear. (see: Republicans and science, all of it, the Green party)

 

[Sirpopopop]

Factually false, stop this dumb shit

No one is going to stop this dumb shit when it's clear you want to have this fight.

If you wanted to have this fight, you would actually try reconciliation. You have demonstrated repeatedly across many threads that you just want everyone to agree that Hillary Clinton sucks and was the worst person in history.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Republicans...

Sounds about right.

 

[thehypocrite]

Ms. Wonk...

Point is there is nothing wrong or hubrisitic about being a wonk.

It's literally just knowing your shit.

Wonks are what government severely lacks.

Clinton is a wonk but not all wonks are like Clinton.

Sorry miss, I wasn't aware and met no disrespect to you. However, you cannot focus on something and be strong on the other aspects involved. Attention is a zero sum game and we are limited to the things we can dedicate our focus at the same time with a level of efficiency. Specialization works best in a complementary environment, not in an individually held position where complementing strengths and weaknesses has significant barriers.

 

[guek]

No one is going to stop this dumb shit when it's clear you want to have this fight.

If you wanted to have this fight, you would actually try reconciliation. You have demonstrated repeatedly across many threads that you just want everyone to agree that Hillary Clinton sucks and was the worst person in history.

lol you see what you want to see, crusader. it's hilarious seeing you mention "reconciliation." I've attempted reconciliation many times and will continue to do so but keep on campaigning if you wish.

 

[DragonSworne]

I seriously have doubts on the effectiveness of anyone backed by Obama or Hillary. Hillary ran the worst campaign in modern history and Obama has extreme aptitude at sabotaging the Democratic Party with his appointments to the point where I wonder if he is just a republican at times.

 

[kirblar]

I seriously have doubts on the effectiveness of anyone backed by Obama or Hillary. Hillary ran the worst campaign in modern history and Obama has extreme aptitude at sabotaging the Democratic Party with his appointments to the point where I wonder if he is just a republican at times.

This was a big part of why I wanted Dean. He's not part of ether's crew.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I seriously have doubts on the effectiveness of anyone backed by Obama or Hillary. Hillary ran the worst campaign in modern history and Obama has extreme aptitude at sabotaging the Democratic Party with his appointments to the point where I wonder if he is just a republican at times.

Please define modern history

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Rip the dream

We need a full timer who knows strategy

Preferably the art of war

 

[royalan]

Please define modern history

Yeah. The Clinton campaign had its faults to be sure. But that post is extreme hyperbole. It took the Russian government, wikileaks and the FBI to bring down Hillary, and even then she's winning the popular vote by over 2.5 million votes, something that has never before happened in modern elections in this country. Look at Dukakis for a truly inept campaign.

But all of this is beside the point. Dean is not "backed" by Clinton. Dean is his own Democrat, with about as much history with the party as Hillary herself.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Well its not getting any worse...

Famous last words of unimaginative people

 

[Sirpopopop]

lol you see what you want to see, crusader.

it's hilarious seeing you mention "reconciliation." I've attempted reconciliation many times and will continue to do so but keep on campaigning if you wish.

These two statements don't match. It's a pretty clear contradiction here...

 

[RareFantasy64]

For a fraction of a second I thought, "is this like a bump from when he dropped out of the nomination race back in 2004?"

 

[guek]

I seriously have doubts on the effectiveness of anyone backed by Obama or Hillary.

Who are you talking about?

 

[IamDodongo]

Good on Dean taking one for the team.

I would prefer him, I think, but the last thing liberals need right now is more infighting. I hope it's not lost on anyone that we lost this election and let progressive causes get trampled because liberals couldn't coalesce.

 

[faisal233]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...isons-past-remarks-about-israel-disqualifying

The Anti-Defamation League on Thursday voiced its opposition to Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison’s bid to run the Democratic Party, citing “deeply disturbing and disqualifying” past statements about Israel.

Pointing to a resurfaced 2010 speech, the CEO of the Jewish civil rights group, Jonathan Greenblatt, questioned whether "Ellison faithfully could represent the Democratic Party's traditional support for a strong and secure Israel.”

In that speech, Ellison asked why “United States' foreign policy in the Middle East is governed by what is good or bad through a country of 7 million people."
"A region of 350 million all turns on a country of 7 million. Does that make sense? Is that logic? Right?" Ellison said at the time, according to reports cited by the League.

The League's statement deals a blow to Ellison's bid to lead the Democratic National Committee. So far, he has emerged as the frontrunner with a large slate of endorsements from across the political spectrum, including incoming Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (N.Y.) and populist darling and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Greenblatt's statement goes on to accuse Ellison, "whether intentional or not" of raising "the specter of age-old stereotypes about Jewish control of our government."

The statement was released just hours after a new report by CNN on Thursday detailed Ellison's defense of Louis Farrakhan, the Nation of Islam leader who has made anti-Semitic comments in the past.

Ellison responded in an open letter to Greenblatt and the ADL.

In the letter, Ellison called himself "a strong supporter of the Jewish state, voting for more than $27 billion in aid to Israel" and adding he's committed to the safety and security of the Jewish State.

"I wish we could have spoken once again before your most recent statement. If given the opportunity, I could have provided a full and proper explanation," Ellison wrote, adding that he is "saddened" by the ADL's statement but looks forward to working with them.

His letter argues that the audio was "was selectively edited and taken out of context by an individual the Southern Poverty Law Center has called an “anti-Muslim extremist.'"
"My memory is that I was responding to a question about how Americans with roots in the Middle East could engage in the political process in a more effective way. My advice was simply to get involved," he said.

"I believe that Israel and the U.S.-Israel relationship are, and should be, key considerations in shaping U.S. policy in the Middle East. Americans with roots or interests in the region should be involved in advocacy and discussions of public policy concerning the region. My response was meant to encourage those in attendance to increase their level of involvement and effectiveness."
Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, has been dogged by accusations of ties to anti-Semitism from the start of his bid, but the League originally came to his defense.

In a statement last week, Greenblatt said that while Ellison made statements and took positions the group didn’t agree with, he’s a “man of good character … an important ally in the fight against anti-Semitism and for civil rights.”

Ellison is set to speak at Denver forum for DNC chairman candidates at a meeting of state party chairs Friday.

ADL against Ellison.

 

[faisal233]

This was a big part of why I wanted Dean. He's not part of ether's crew.

The character assassination against Dean is the most ridiculous thing I've seen. All because he supported Hillary as a super delegate.

Don't let them tell you otherwise, if Dean didn't support Hillary in the primary (I didn't support Hillary in the primary btw), he would have been fine with the bernie wing. Just look at Tulsi.

 

[guek]

These two statements don't match. It's a pretty clear contradiction here...

It was a small jab at the conversation we had earlier, when you admitted you were on a crusade against Bernie and anyone that might support him. I sincerely don't give a shit about petty primary crap apart from revisionist history, and all the snide back and forth on the first page using tired old criticisms from both Bernie and Hillary camps is a waste of time.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Yeah. The Clinton campaign had its faults to be sure. But that post is extreme hyperbole. It took the Russian government, wikileaks and the FBI to bring down Hillary, and even then she's winning the popular vote by over 2.5 million votes, something that has never before happened in modern elections in this country. Look at Dukakis for a truly inept campaign.

But all of this is beside the point. Dean is not "backed" by Clinton. Dean is his own Democrat, with about as much history with the party as Hillary herself.

You can't bring up all the things Clinton had against her and not take into account that her opponent was the most transparently incompetent, duplicitous scumbag in US presidential history who was so irredeemably shitty that he was publicly lambasted by some of the staunchest republicans and even compared to Hitler on a regular basis.

Yes, Clinton was dealt some garbage cards, but her hand wasn't so dire.

 

[danm999]

Gotta give up Congress Keith. The Democratic Party is on life support, it can't afford another part timer.

 

[Abounder]

I seriously have doubts on the effectiveness of anyone backed by Obama or Hillary. Hillary ran the worst campaign in modern history and Obama has extreme aptitude at sabotaging the Democratic Party with his appointments to the point where I wonder if he is just a republican at times.

Pretty much, especially with Trump shitting on the Obamas & Clintons with news like Carrier A/C. Still can't believe that Hillary didn't even bother to visit Wisconsin, but then again she couldn't even answer whether or not she tells the truth without looking dumber than Dan Quayle. What a deplorable campaigner and a lazy dipshit.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Shame he didn't announce this live and give us another wonderful speech.

 

[royalan]

You can't bring up all the things Clinton had against her and not take into account that her opponent was the most transparently incompetent, duplicitous scumbag in US presidential history who was so irredeemably shitty that he was publicly lambasted by some of the staunchest republicans and even compared to Hitler on a regular basis.

Yes, Clinton was dealt some garbage cards, but her hand wasn't so dire.

I'm not saying that Trump didn't run an awful campaign. I just think campaigns can be judged independently of each other. I think Hillary team a pretty standard, competent campaign. Only problem was this was anything but a standard election.

Also, I have to insist that the hand Hillary was dealt was, in fact, pretty fucking dire.

No other campaign had to deal with blatant interference by a foreign power.

No other campaign had to deal with having their personal and campaign-related email materials hacked and strategically dispersed to the public.

No other campaign had to deal with unprecedented interference by the FBI (and over nothing).

This isn't to say Hillary ran a perfect campaign. She didn't. But it was FAR from "worst in history." It was incredibly competent. I think it's important that we as a country, and more importantly as Democrats, not sweep under the rug the forces that came out to block Hillary from the Presidency in a way NEVER BEFORE seen in our Democracy. It was truly terrifying to watch unfold, and to ignore that is to invite it to happen again.

It's actually something I Do appreciate about Ellison's platform. To my knowledge, he's the only one running for Chair who has seriously addressed this.

 

[Odrion]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...isons-past-remarks-about-israel-disqualifying



ADL against Ellison.

I mean if there's ever a time for the Democrats to refuse to be so fervently for Israel as we were in the past it's now, what with the other side having LITERAL NAZIS and all.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I'm not saying that Trump didn't run an awful campaign. I just think campaigns can be judged independently of each other. I think Hillary team a pretty standard, competent campaign. Only problem was this was anything but a standard election.

Also, I have to insist that the hand Hillary was dealt was, in fact, pretty fucking dire.

No other campaign had to deal with blatant interference by a foreign power.

No other campaign had to deal with having their personal and campaign-related email materials hacked and strategically dispersed to the public.

No other campaign had to deal with unprecedented interference by the FBI (and over nothing).

This isn't to say Hillary ran a perfect campaign. She didn't. But it was FAR from "worst in history." It was incredibly competent. I think it's important that we as a country, and more importantly as Democrats, not sweep under the rug the forces that came out to block Hillary from the Presidency in a way NEVER BEFORE seen in our Democracy. It was truly terrifying to watch unfold, and to ignore that is to invite it to happen again.

It's actually something I Do appreciate about Ellison's platform. To my knowledge, he's the only one running for Chair who had seriously addressed this.

I can't agree that her campaign should be judged in a vacuum, since Hillary's strategy was to run against a non-standard candidate, but I completely agree with the bolded. And Trump's administration is sure to make it even easier for that kind of sabotage to take place.

 

[watershed]

I like the idea of Tom Perez. Get some serious muscle into labor and the dem party and try to unify the working class vote as much as possible. Dems should be the party of the working class.

 

[kirblar]

I like the idea of Tom Perez. Get some serious muscle into labor and the dem party and try to unify the working class vote as much as possible. Dems should be the party of the working class.

Yeah, I think this would be good.

One big problem, I think, is that for years and years Dems have outsourced GOTV TO Labor, but with Labor's slow decline in the workforce, they need to pick up more and more of that slack themselves and haven't been prepared to.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I mean if there's ever a time for the Democrats to refuse to be so fervently for Israel as we were in the past it's now, what with the other side having LITERAL NAZIS and all.

I'm inclined to agree. I don't see anything problematic with what he's saying.

 

[Kin5290]

You know what I mean. I am talking about corporate lobbyists. Although truthfully, I believe lobbying should be completely illegal in all forms.

Edit: Actually fuck lobbyists for Greenpeace. Anyone who advocates for an anti-science position are just as bad as corporate lobbyists.

The women who slowly grew support for a woman's right to vote in the US Senate in the decades before 1920? They were lobbyists.

"No lobbyists EVAR" is an utterly stupid attitude to have, and it shows a complete lack of understanding of how policy is made.

 

[Cipherr]

The women who slowly grew support for a woman's right to vote in the US Senate in the decades before 1920? They were lobbyists.

"No lobbyists EVAR" is an utterly stupid attitude to have, and it shows a complete lack of understanding of how policy is made.

Amen. I positively loved the walkback of "You know what I mean".

 

[Rentahamster]

On one hand, I can see why they want someone to be full time. On the other hand, it's awfully convenient that they only care about that now when it makes Ellison's bid more difficult.

It didn't seem to matter yo them much when Schultz was chair. And no, I dont think her problems were due to her being a sitting congresswoman at the same time too.

 

[royalan]

The women who slowly grew support for a woman's right to vote in the US Senate in the decades before 1920? They were lobbyists.

"No lobbyists EVAR" is an utterly stupid attitude to have, and it shows a complete lack of understanding of how policy is made.

It also shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what lobbying is.

If you've ever coordinated with a group to appeal to any type of official to enact some type of policy or change that would benefit your group, congrats. You're guilty of lobbying.

On one hand, I can see why they want someone to be full time. On the other hand, it's awfully convenient that they only care about that now when it makes Ellison's bid more difficult.

It didn't seem to matter yo them much when Schultz was chair. And no, I dont think her problems were due to her being a sitting congresswoman at the same time too.

OR, for an alternative, less loaded reading, this could be the Democrats learning from the mistakes of having Schultz as Chair. It's undeniable that one of DWS many faults was that she just couldn't devote as much time to the job. We've had 3 recent DNC Chairs: DWS, Tim Kaine, and Howard Dean. Dean is by far the most successful of the three when it comes to building a winning party. And the big thing that separates him for those two, is that he was full-time chair. Dean himself agrees. Considering his performance as chair, I'm willing to lend his word some weight.

 

[necrosis]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...isons-past-remarks-about-israel-disqualifying



ADL against Ellison.

lol fuck the ADL

a bloo bloo, someone is critical of israel

 

[Sirpopopop]

It was a small jab at the conversation we had earlier, when you admitted you were on a crusade against Bernie and anyone that might support him. I sincerely don't give a shit about petty primary crap apart from revisionist history, and all the snide back and forth on the first page using tired old criticisms from both Bernie and Hillary camps is a waste of time.

The first person to mention Hillary here was you.

I looked through the thread, I checked. You were the one who brought it up. No one else did.

 

[Iksenpets]

Why advocate for a public option and then sign on to help the people who don't want it then? He had multiple avenues open and he chooses one that contradicts his previously stated believes. I don't think you can blame me for thinking it's hypocritical of him to do.

Please feel free to list these, and explain why they would be better than single payer or a public option.



You know what I mean. I am talking about corporate lobbyists. Although truthfully, I believe lobbying should be completely illegal in all forms.

Edit: Actually fuck lobbyists for Greenpeace. Anyone who advocates for an anti-science position are just as bad as corporate lobbyists.

Ok, I see this stuff get thrown around a lot, but how the hell would a ban on lobbying even work?? Lobbying is just advocating for policy positions. A ban on lobbying would mean that something like internet companies protesting SOPA is now illegal. If six months from now, Trump is starting his wave of deportations, it would now be illegal for any company to say this is bad for their business because they're dependent on immigrant workers. Like, boo corporations, I get it, but companies have a right to communicate what policies they believe would be good or bad for their business.

 

[guek]

The first person to mention Hillary here was you.

I looked through the thread, I checked. You were the one who brought it up. No one else did.

People mentioned Hillary before I did, I merely said her name first

Politicians becoming multi millionaires by giving speeches to banks is not a problem to Dean.

Yay purity tests

Remember though, if Ellison gets the position regardless of commitment or experience due to shoring up early support from influential figures its not a "coronation", that's just for people we don't like

These are all needlessly referring to Hillary. Maybe you're upset that I didn't mention goose who started off by criticizing her? In which case, sorry, but I did mention both Bernie and Hillary diehards are too eager to snipe at one another and derail threads. But now I've just added to the derailment when I wanted to do the opposite, so could we please move on?

 

[cooljeanius]

so his proposals seem pretty interesting, let's see what wikipedia has to say about raymond buckley:



okay he sounds pretty cool.

okay he sounds pretty fucking cool

aw shit ABORT ABORT ABORT ABORT ABORT

I'd almost forgotten about the whole Vaillancourt thing. So has a lot of New Hampshire, for that matter. Still, that fell harder on Vaillancourt than Buckley; Vaillancourt hasn't been heard of since 2014 and Buckley has only risen in prominence