Sleeping Lesson
Member
I'll be keeping an eye on Amazon, and will post in here the instant I see it go up.
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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck
- Thread starter taco543
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Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah. Haven't got an alert yet. About to head out to the beach/outside of the Internet this morning too.
The lighthouses have 120 degrees of tracking, so on paper it should work but reduce your effective play area. The distance between lighthouses would be the diagonal of your play square (or trapezium perhaps, but let's not get into that). So you could use tape to mark off the diagonal, then create a square with side length equal to diagonal divided by the square root of two.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Deluxe Audio Strap is on Amazon
For some reason you have to go to the sellers list, but Amazon is the seller so I think we're good.
[EDIT] It's on the main page now
For some reason you have to go to the sellers list, but Amazon is the seller so I think we're good.
[EDIT] It's on the main page now
Veritigo_X
Member
Faster than the Amazon alert, thanks! Ordered!
I'm on the fence. I really dislike using regular/external headphones with the Vive since it makes putting the headset on more difficult. This would obviously solve that issue. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I've used the Vive enough to justify dropping the initial $800, so I'm a little reluctant dropping another $100. However, this strap has the potential of making me use the device more. In addition, I have some Amazon credit to spend.
Nice, it's on amazon.ca too ($140 CAD).
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06Y2GDXMC/
Done, I'm all set to get it Friday. (2 day shipping to get it that day was 6 bucks, so might as well)
I was completely against getting this until this morning. I haven't had any problem with the strap on my Vive, and like using my external studio headphones. I finally watched a video, and this looks like it could make set up a little bit quicker. Even though the cables have never really given me too much problem, having the extra routing to keep them out of the way is a nice bonus.
I was going to order it after I got back from lunch, and now I see a 1-3 week wait over at Amazon. Suppose I should have just bit the bullet right away. Now, I'm back to questioning if I need the strap more than I need $100.
I was going to order it after I got back from lunch, and now I see a 1-3 week wait over at Amazon. Suppose I should have just bit the bullet right away. Now, I'm back to questioning if I need the strap more than I need $100.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Sweet. My Microsoft store pre-order for the Deluxe Strap is due to arrive today.
Zalusithix
Member
The getting rid of the LED sync flash is interesting in that one of the biggest limitations for tracking range will be gone. Then you have the cost and size reductions from stripping both that part out and one of the laser rotors. With these changes, I imagine the 2.0 stations will take up around a quarter of the 1.0 station volume.
Also of interest is the lack of backwards compatibility. Guess there won't be any swapping of our old lighthouses out for new ones when they come out. It's not important from a cost savings perspective as forwards compatibility will keep new gear working with our old lighthouses, but it will prevent us from taking advantage of the benefits of the new tech without an entirely new HMD and controllers. Not a big deal - that's the price of progress, but a side effect of that is that it turns the gen 1 Vive into a time bomb from a historical standpoint. Durability / longevity wise, lighthouses are the weak link for the Vive, and eventually finding gen 1 lighthouses will be difficult as they'll have only been produced for the Vive 1.0 and nothing else. Compounding that limitation, unlike the HMD itself, I don't think DIY repair is possible for the lighthouses given the calibration requirements.
GuitarAtomik
Member
So a couple of things I'm thinking about now in relation to SteamVR Tracking 2.0 that I posted about a bit ago.
- 180 degree tracking means you can put the base stations pretty much anywhere on your wall instead of having to put them in the corners for complete coverage.
- The more I think about it, I'm not sure why you'd want more than two base stations (especially with the wider coverage). I guess for extra solid yet redundant coverage? Only two real advantages it gives that I can think of is being able to cover a MUCH larger space, or possibly allowing for coverage in wonky wall setups (eg, if there's a pillar on your wall or in your play space, you could cover the spots that would normally be occluded with just two base stations).
- Being NOT compatible with Vive 1.0 is interesting. Either Valve is working on their own headset to work with this, HTC is planning on releasing a new Vive this year, or what I think is most likely is that these will be what the LG headset uses since that should be out around the same time.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I think those two advantages are the reason they're doing this. If you have a perfectly setup room already, it won't matter. However, if you want to create a ridiculously large play area, or if your room is weirdly shaped, or you don't have the flexibility to place the lighthouses in the exact corner, this will help a lot.
Veritigo_X
Member
I started messing around with a movement idea over the weekend that's a combined seated/room-scale inspired by someone here last week mentioning measuring chairs for seating games. Basically you would move around while seated (in an actual game I imagine this would be like robot legs attached to a chair or something) but you can get out and walk around your room space and not have to worry about running into your chair because you can see it rendered in game.
Anyway, an issue I ran into fairly quickly is that having a chair in the middle of your room scale space makes tracking weird depending on how you're positioned in the room (usually when reaching down to pick up an item with both your body and the chair blocking the lighthouses). A third lighthouse would totally help here.
Games right now probably won't take advantage of multiple lighthouses, but this could change what kinds of games people make in VR. Like I'm picturing someone buying a huge laser tag arena with corridors and stuff where everyone wears wireless VR headsets that makes the boring arena look like an alien planet. Obviously, that won't be happening anytime soon but at least this will get one of the problems out of the way.
electroflame
Member
Looks like I just missed the window for getting the strap this week. No biggy -- I'm actually glad that Amazon left the listing up and just increased the wait time. I'd rather have an order arriving slightly later than not have one at all.
I've strongly disliked the strap since I first put the Vive on. Really looking forward to giving the new strap a go, even if it was kind of expensive at $100 + tax.
I've strongly disliked the strap since I first put the Vive on. Really looking forward to giving the new strap a go, even if it was kind of expensive at $100 + tax.
Looks like you can still order from direct from HTC Vive, but no free shipping.
I went with Amazon, paid for next day. I'll update with impressions, I'm a new owner that been somewhat holding off on playing it until I get it, so I'm pumped.
I called my Microsoft store to see if I could grab today, and they told me its not out yet (lol) so don't count on them.
I think its sold out in European Vive Store for now.
Zalusithix
Member
I believe a goal at one point was stated to move from "roomscale" to "house scale". With the lighthouse limit removed, you could blanket multiple rooms in coverage that exists as one logical set. Not useful for tethered play, and not even that useful for wireless play (60GHz isn't going to go through a wall), but a truly mobile solution could use it. Also, I'm not sure what the exact cause of the issue is, but I can observe minor positional jumps when a controller moves from being occluded from one lighthouse to the other. Having more lighthouses where there's always more than one visible would likely eliminate that problem. Of course, the problem could just as well be due to other limitations of the 1.0 tech that 2.0 would solve without the addition of more lighthouses.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Got my deluxe strap! Definitely more comfortable but not exponentially so. Think I need to adjust the fit because I was still getting face fatigue around the same time I normally do. The highlight is the convenience of the integrated headphones. They lack a little bass and I kind of wish they could go a little louder but are otherwise pretty good UNLESS you prefer being 100% immersed in the sound. You're going to get sound bleed so if that's a deal breaker, steer clear.
Overall it's a definite upgrade but if you're planning to take the headphones off, I don't think it's worth the price.
Overall it's a definite upgrade but if you're planning to take the headphones off, I don't think it's worth the price.
I am an audophile and yeah I don't expect them to be better than my Sennheisers - the comfort advantage is all I want that thing for. Maybe I should save the money if it's not that much better, especially if the weigth pressure on the cheek/nose is not much improved.
2 Lighthouses really isn't as perfect as people make it sound. It is quite easy to have some occlusion issues even with an almost perfect 2 lighthouse setup especially when playing shooters with a stock. You will often hold your controllers in a way that your arms and head will block one lighthouse completely and part of the second one. A third lighthouse would eliminate most or all of those issues.
There are quite a few people playing Onward that runs into small drifting issues when sniping for example, because that involves putting one controller right next to your headset with arms up to the sides and if you aim directly at a corner if you playspace you can block a lot of the lasers making your tracking wobble a bit back and forth with in most cases wouldn't be noticeable or cause any issues but when you are trying to land a long range shot any wobble will make that very hard/frustrating.
Im sure most people could fix these issues by tweaking their playspaces or moving their lighthouses, but a third lighthouse would probably make it even more robust so you don't have to figure out the absolute perfect setup.
Auto-Reply
Member
I have to hide the Vive controller under my shirt and put my hands over the disc so it doesn't get tracked anymore (it tracks through my shirt). I don't have any tracking problems at all with 2 lighthouse boxes. I can understand your example, putting the disc of the controller near/under the headset, pressed against the side of the throat and then going into a corner of the playfield and tracking could become problematic. I've never had any problems with that as it's quite rare (at least in games I've played) to use a rifle that way and simultaneausely standing in the edge of the playing field with the controller pointing into the corner)
I don't see any reason for another box in my set-up/room, I'd rather reposition myself in my room before setting that up.
I don't sweat much at all but this is a turn off and I'll be holding back on my purchase
Auto-Reply
Member
That's a no-go for me, I sweat like a pig in VR all the time! I'm also wearing a cut in half ski-mask under the HMD so sweat probably wouldn't reach the foam that easily...still
Like I said in most cases you wouldn't even notice it because the controller will just move a little back and forth its only really noticeable when trying to look down a scope. You don't have to stand at the edge of your playspace for it to manifest, just face your lighthouse in a way that your back/head blocks one lighthouse completely and your headset/arms partially blocks the other. Which is fairly easy to do when crouched/prone.
It is probably mostly because my playspace is not square at all, but a fairly narrow rectangle because the shape of my room/furnishing currently. So you could probably get rid of most of the issues by finding the perfect setup but having a third lighthouse would make it easier since you will have more overlap.
I can't quite agree with this point, not having your basestations at the corners will still allow for occlusion scenarios, no matter the FoV of the lighthouses.
Yeah its the not the FoV of the lighthouses that makes the corner the best position, its the line of sight that is important for that.
If new lighthouses have nearly a 180 degree FOV and I have them both on opposite walls what's the difference if they're in corners or the middle of my wall? In my head the lines of sight look the same so maybe I'm not understanding the geometry of the problem or something.
If you have the lighthouses on the middle of 2 opposing walls and you go to either corner of your playspace you will block more of the lasers with your back than if you had them in opposite corners. Creating a small deadzone infront of you, its not a huge issue but this problem doesn't change just because we have a wider field of view.
Edit: But like most things with lighthouses, just because it wouldn't be optimal it doesn't mean it doesn't work or isn't good enough for your setup, it might even be the best solution for your room. Most people don't have a perfectly square play area with the lighthouses in the corners at an elevated position which is the optimal configuration.
Veritigo_X
Member
How was this not noticed sooner? People have had their hands on this thing for a couple weeks now.
Well that could be an issue. Ill have to evaluate when mine arrives(already shipped) if it is something I can replace or if it will be going back.
If this is the case, why is he the only one discussing this issue? People have had these for weeks now, plus have used them at trade shows for longer. One would think this would have been talked about more if it was a common occurrence.
I'll keep it eye on mine. I haven't had a ton of time to use it yet, but it solves all the issues I had with the Vive. It's a lot more comfortable now, especially using it combined with a vr cover. The audio quality is solid which is a huge plus for me because I hated having to use external headphones with the vive.
Zepp Twofist
Member
This is the same guy who had another obese youtuber sweat his headset to death a while back. I'm beginning to think his VR room is a lot hotter than most other places.
Auto-Reply
Member
Is the foam on the deluxe trap the same kind of foam as the regular HMD foam that sits around the eyes/nose? (because I don't have any detoriation going on with that)
Edit: Didn't think straight there, if it was it would have dissolved also lol - scratch that
GuitarAtomik
Member
If you're going to take the headphones off, I wouldn't recommend it. It's more comfortable, but not $100 more comfortable. It's the headphones that justify the price.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. Having the option to add more is better. I just think doing so is going to be an edge case when we're talking about regular consumer use.
Corners would still be ideal, but 180 degree FOV makes middle of the wall placement viable in a way the 1.0 basestations weren't. That's all I'm saying.
Zalusithix
Member
It's possible that the results could differ from person to person based on the composition / pH balance of their sweat. Not everybody is the same in that regard, and the foam could be more vulnerable to one extreme or the other. Combine that with variances in usage patterns and the amount of sweat the user creates in a session, and there's a lot of variables in play. Time will tell I suppose as we get more of these in the hands of people.
Honestly I don't think that sort of exposed foam was the right choice there from a longevity standpoint. Should have been wrapped in velour/pleather, but I suppose that would have eaten into their profit margins a bit too much for their liking.
GuitarAtomik
Member
The public at large is just getting them so I'm not surprised. This Reddit thread has a decent amount of people who've have it for a week or more reporting the same issue. Not everyone who's had it that long is though. Could be a variation in use or maybe even foam. HTC support at the moment is just saying the reports are "not true" so take that for what you will.
Haint
Member
LOL profit margins, this thing probably doesn't cost them $20 or $30 to build, package, and ship. Shit is $100 US Dollars, I don't think 25 cents of pleather is going to eat into anything.
Zalusithix
Member
I never said that doing such would significantly impact their profit, just that it was probably too much for their liking. With large enough production runs, companies will try to reduce what they deem as unneeded costs by mere cents - as they can add up over millions of units. Granted these aren't going to be manufactured to that extent, but saving 25 cents is saving 25 cents. If they felt that the added cost wasn't worth it in terms of what was needed, it would be scrapped.
Vive 2.0 is extremely unlikely to use the same attachment mechanism, so the lifespan of these things doesn't need to be very long; they know most users are likely going to upgrade extremely quickly. Beyond that, the padding is made to be easily replaceable, so if it does wear out, they can make some extra bucks selling replacement foam. I mean, degrading this quickly on any scale would obviously have them facing huge blowback on quality, but if it takes a couple years on average for them to deteriorate, it'll barely be a blip on the PR radar, and they'll have saved tens of thousands on cost reduction and made thousands more selling extras to those outside of the normal wear curve. Compare this to high end headphones where users expect them to work for many years without falling apart, and quality issues like that can greatly impact the brand's perception.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I'd be surprised if VRcover doesn't come up with a solution for the deluxe strap.
EDIT: Side note - House of the Dying Sun is 50% off right now. Totally worth it.
EDIT: Side note - House of the Dying Sun is 50% off right now. Totally worth it.
electroflame
Member
No worries, got it with Prime, and I'm not in a huge rush. Should be here next week, judging by the order page.
Uh, yikes. That's not good. Before everyone starts freaking out, though, if it truly is as widespread as it sounds I'd imagine that HTC would send out replacement foam pads.
Alternatively, if it's truly a widespread issue I'd imagine that Amazon, etc. won't push too hard if you try to return it.
I'll wait and see before freaking out. It's disappointing if true, as $100 isn't really that cheap, and sweat and oil on the foam should've come up in testing. I mean, honestly, foam should be covered in something anyway, but it seems like HTC is hesitant to put any kind of official cover on these things.
EDIT: HTC seems to be "aware" of the problem -- whatever that means.
This game rules. Its a steal at $10.
Zalusithix
Member
My order went from saying estimated delivery between the 21st and 29th of June, to next Monday, to now apparently shipping out today for (Prime 2 day) delivery on Friday. I don't think I've seen such wild fluctuation in estimated delivery dates before lol.
At face value, just what it says: They're aware of that (singular?) report and are investigating it, so no need to keep pointing out the report to them.
Is House of the Dying Sun, um, VR-y at all? Like, is there much difference playing on the Vive vs a screen, or is it pretty comparable to Thumper for example?
Same exact situation for me! Should be here Friday, I'm pretty excited. (edit: i.e., it actually shipped)
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