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"I need a New PC!" 2012 Thread. 22nm+28nm, Tri-Gate, and reading the OP. [Part 1]

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sk3tch

Member
^ haha...enjoy it, man! If you can do it and you want to do it - than why not? As I said in PM, the drivers for the 680s when it comes to tri-SLI (and I imagine quad-SLI - I will find out tomorrow) are not mature. My guess is that they focused on single card (maybe a bit of dual card) performance to get these cards out the gate. So, bide your time...things will probably improve by double-digit percentage points.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1683726
 

Hawk269

Member
^ haha...enjoy it, man! If you can do it and you want to do it - than why not? As I said in PM, the drivers for the 680s when it comes to tri-SLI (and I imagine quad-SLI - I will find out tomorrow) are not mature. My guess is that they focused on single card (maybe a bit of dual card) performance to get these cards out the gate. So, bide your time...things will probably improve by double-digit percentage points.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1683726

Yeah, I read that thread a few days ago. It seems like there is between a 22-34% scaling in 2-d from 2way SLI vs. 3waySLI 680's. While low, the avg. scaling is still not terrible and we all know with more mature drivers that gap is going to grow alot..heck even in 2xsli it will improve.

I guess the best question to ask everyone here is this. What kind of rig would it take to run Witcher 2 in Uber-mode at 1080p at ROCK SOLID 60fps? I know that it one demanding f'n game -or game mode-...but just curious on the thoughts of those around here.
 

GraveHorizon

poop meter feature creep
Update on my desktop: It's been one week and I haven't gotten everything I need yet. The stuff I ordered from Newegg, NCIX, and OutletPC all showed up on my doorstep on Friday. My Amazon order, containing the Blu-ray drive and the power supply, didn't even leave its state of origin until Monday. The tracking information shows it as leaving the seller facility on the 30th, but it started in Phoenix, AZ, went to Tempe, AZ, then back to Phoenix, where it sat for 3 days. This is BS, what the hell have they been doing?

The SSD I ordered on Friday (from Newegg) showed up in the mail today. An order made 3 days after Amazon's. I've never had such a problem with them before. I want to play the Valve Complete Pack, don't make me wait!
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Update on my desktop: It's been one week and I haven't gotten everything I need yet. The stuff I ordered from Newegg, NCIX, and OutletPC all showed up on my doorstep on Friday. My Amazon order, containing the Blu-ray drive and the power supply, didn't even leave its state of origin until Monday. The tracking information shows it as leaving the seller facility on the 30th, but it started in Phoenix, AZ, went to Tempe, AZ, then back to Phoenix, where it sat for 3 days. This is BS, what the hell have they been doing?

The SSD I ordered on Friday (from Newegg) showed up in the mail today. An order made 3 days after Amazon's. I've never had such a problem with them before. I want to play the Valve Complete Pack, don't make me wait!
3rd party or actually amazon?
I'm doing some cuts to make it like that...

what about this:

CPU: Intel i5 2500K

Mobo: ASUS P8Z68-V LX
If you can make it happen, that's the best route to go.
 
Yeah, I read that thread a few days ago. It seems like there is between a 22-34% scaling in 2-d from 2way SLI vs. 3waySLI 680's. While low, the avg. scaling is still not terrible and we all know with more mature drivers that gap is going to grow alot..heck even in 2xsli it will improve.

I guess the best question to ask everyone here is this. What kind of rig would it take to run Witcher 2 in Uber-mode at 1080p at ROCK SOLID 60fps? I know that it one demanding f'n game -or game mode-...but just curious on the thoughts of those around here.

Kepler GK110. I don't know if GTX 680 even has enough VRAM. I'd think OC'd GTX 680 in SLI would do the trick?

And again, ubersampling is stupid. It's just supersampling, dude. And once you do ubersampling 2, there is always Ubersampling x3, x4, x5, x6... it never ends. Just enjoy what you've got! Why keep burning up money?
 

Hawk269

Member
Kepler GK110. I don't know if GTX 680 even has enough VRAM. I'd think OC'd GTX 680 in SLI would do the trick?

And again, ubersampling is stupid. It's just supersampling, dude. And once you do ubersampling 2, there is always Ubersampling x3, x4, x5, x6... it never ends. Just enjoy what you've got! Why keep burning up money?

I played the game both at max settings (non-uber) and in Uber mode and to me the IQ is a hell of alot better in Uber mode. While, I know it can go even higher, right now I would like to just play it in Uber mode or supersampling as you put it.

I have my 680's OC +100 on the core plus +400 on the memory and still cannot pull it off. I will do another test to see if it is a VRAM issue, but I do not think that it is that. But will test to see.

I know you keep saying that it is just supersampling etc, but if anyone knows about how much better it can look in supersampling mode it is you...heck you have been the resident expert in getting amazing IQ out of games.
 

Hawk269

Member
Can anyone provide any input on using a 212 vs. one of those closed water cooler solutions such as the Corsair H100 or H80? I am still unsure what I want to do, but one option was to add one of these water cooling solutions and overclock my CPU some more..but wanted to get some feedback from those that moved from an Air cooler to one of those self contained water cooling solutions.
 

GraveHorizon

poop meter feature creep
3rd party or actually amazon?

The power supply says Amazon.com LLC, and the Blu-ray drive says "Sold by: Genesis Trade USA". So I guess it took them extra time moving it around to get that item on board? If that's the case, then I guess it's understandable. Most of my other orders I can remember are Amazon themselves.
 
Can anyone provide any input on using a 212 vs. one of those closed water cooler solutions such as the Corsair H100 or H80? I am still unsure what I want to do, but one option was to add one of these water cooling solutions and overclock my CPU some more..but wanted to get some feedback from those that moved from an Air cooler to one of those self contained water cooling solutions.

I use the H100 in a Lian-Li PC P80N and couldn't be happier. with the right fan it can be real quiet and cool you down all the way to 32c (lowest I got in the winter) and I don't think I've ever gone past 50c while gaming while Oc'd to 4.5 Ghz (without messing with the voltage though)
also, and this is just my personal opinion, while the 212 and the like are great performers no doubt, i'm always personally scared those heavy things will just fall and snap off. lol.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Can anyone provide any input on using a 212 vs. one of those closed water cooler solutions such as the Corsair H100 or H80? I am still unsure what I want to do, but one option was to add one of these water cooling solutions and overclock my CPU some more..but wanted to get some feedback from those that moved from an Air cooler to one of those self contained water cooling solutions.
H100 is a great product, but you certainly pay for it. You can spend just $10-15 more and get a real watercooling loop which you can expand to videocards later if that is something that interests you.

When you're talking about 212 Evo vs. H100, and about reaching realistic 24/7 overclocks, you can hit 4.8-5.0 with the H100 where the 212 would fail. But, I don't OC my H100 system to 5.0, leave it at 4.6 instead. I *can* go to 5 for benches, but I leave the 5.0 24/7 to a real water cooling solution.
 
I'm looking to move out of the world of laptops and buy/build my first PC in a few weeks time. However I'm also utterly clueless when it comes to PCs & components so I've got a few questions. I'll start with the build I'm currently thinking of going with (hoping to use it to game on my ASUS VH242H at 1920 x 1080 for the next 3 years or so), it's essentially the enhanced PC from the topic with a few changes for components I can't get on Overclockers:

ZOTAC GeForce GTX 560Ti "448 Edition" OC 1280MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £199.99
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £169.99
Asus P8Z68-V LX Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £89.98
Cooler Master HAF 912 Case - Black £52.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (ST500DM002) £57.98
XFX Pro 550W Core Edition '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £52.99
Corsair Vengeance Blue Low Profile 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CML8GX3M2A1600C9B) £43.99
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU Cooler (Socket Intel® Socket LGA1366/1156/1155/775/AMD Socket FM1/AM3+/AM3/AM2+/AM2) £26.99
Samsung SH-S222BB/BEBE 22x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £18.98
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound (3.5g) £8.99

Total: Around £740 with shipping.

Assuming there's nothing horribly wrong with the build my first question is would I be better off spending £30 more or so on the GPU to get a GTX 570 from here http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=1914&subid=1010 or the AMD equivalent?

Second question would be a matter of RAM. So I need to go with the Corsair Vengeance LP or would I be able/better off to go with the standard version given my GPU cooler & mobo, I know some guys on Overclockers were worried about the heatsinks on the standard version getting in the way.

Finally there's the matter of cooling. I was thinking about replacing the stock HAF front fan with a 200mm Megaflow and then using the stock 120mm fan to rig a pull/push setup on my 212 evo. Would that be possible and should it be sufficient enough to cool my machine if I go for a 4.2-4.5 OC on the CPU?

Anyway those are all my concerns to now, many thanks to anybody who takes the time to read this.
 

MrBig

Member
Read on a Swedish site (rumor) that ivy bridge is already coming out April 23, is it true?

Ive seen multiple reports that they will be out at the end of april but it was already delayed to get it to that point and anything can happen.
Im just not worrying about and pushed my build back to late may so that ivy and hopefully nv 660s are already in peoples hands by then
 
I played the game both at max settings (non-uber) and in Uber mode and to me the IQ is a hell of alot better in Uber mode. While, I know it can go even higher, right now I would like to just play it in Uber mode or supersampling as you put it.

I have my 680's OC +100 on the core plus +400 on the memory and still cannot pull it off. I will do another test to see if it is a VRAM issue, but I do not think that it is that. But will test to see.

I know you keep saying that it is just supersampling etc, but if anyone knows about how much better it can look in supersampling mode it is you...heck you have been the resident expert in getting amazing IQ out of games.

Yeah, I love IQ, but I am also a big proponent of maximizing performance/$ ratio and basically being cost efficient.

You know you can do your own form of Uber/Super sampling, right? Just downsample. So set a custom resolution of 1440p, 1536p, etc (whatever max 16:9 ratio resolution you can handle) and it'll downsample to 1080p and work the same as Ubersampling. That way you can experiment and find something that is approaching Ubersampling quality but without as much of a performance hit!
 

sk3tch

Member
Can anyone provide any input on using a 212 vs. one of those closed water cooler solutions such as the Corsair H100 or H80? I am still unsure what I want to do, but one option was to add one of these water cooling solutions and overclock my CPU some more..but wanted to get some feedback from those that moved from an Air cooler to one of those self contained water cooling solutions.

I have the 212 on one system and the H100 on the other - both are great. The H100 is obviously better, but it's cost is like 3x to gain around 10C cooler temps. Perhaps worth it, perhaps not...really a call you have to make.

The other side is the spacing issue. Obviously the 212 is friggin' huge. The H100 is small from a CPU mount-perspective but then you have the dual fan radiator to deal with. Make sure your case can accommodate that...otherwise it'll be hanging out outside of it. :)
 

Karmum

Banned
I still get a small smile on my face when I see HDD prices now, and how I got my Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB HDD for $59.99 back in August.
 

Smokey

Member
Can anyone provide any input on using a 212 vs. one of those closed water cooler solutions such as the Corsair H100 or H80? I am still unsure what I want to do, but one option was to add one of these water cooling solutions and overclock my CPU some more..but wanted to get some feedback from those that moved from an Air cooler to one of those self contained water cooling solutions.

Most people here don't like the self contained water solutions, but I like my H100. Looks sleek and and the cpu cooler doesn't take up your entire case!

Speaking of cooling...I got an additional fan from Microcenter yesterday. In my 500r there's two 120mm intake fans up front, and one 200mm fan on the door blowing onto the 580s. By default the rear fan is an exhaust, and I currenty have the H100 configured as an exhaust. With that being said, would it be better to make the rear fan an intake? That way it's bringing air in and out through the H100, or would it be better to leave it how it is? Seems to me that having a rear exhaust as well as the H100 exhaust fans cancel each other out..?

If I had the H100 fans as an intake in push/pull I think it'd make more sense to keep the rear fan as an exhaust
 

1-D_FTW

Member
I still get a small smile on my face when I see HDD prices now, and how I got my Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB HDD for $59.99 back in August.

Got it for 44.99 on December 15th (no tax or shipping). And while I appreciate the deal, I'm not smiling one bit about how Seagate and WD consolidated and colluded the market.

Any idea when Ivy Bridge CPUs will be available to purchase by consumers on Amazon?

Assuming you're looking for one of the rumored processors that acutally are releasing, looks like sometime around the 23rd - 28th. You'll get a hard date once we get closer to their actual release.
 

clav

Member
So a quality 550w is an okay PSU for a 570? My friends are all "YOU'LL KILL THE CARD", but I don't know.

38 amps on 12 volts required for 570.

Current * Voltage = Power.

38 Amps * 12 Volts = 456 Watts.

456/550 = 83% use.

Might be pushing the power supply a bit if this goes under load, but if you have a quality one, it should be OK as usually the better-made power supplies can go above the stated wattage although that will really depend on that 12 Volt rail.

Seems some reviews say though the highest wattage consumed is 350 for this card, so in reality, the card only needs 30 amps. and thus it's only using 64% of your total power supply.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-570-gf110-performance,2806-14.html

I say don't worry about it assuming your power supply is great.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Most people here don't like the self contained water solutions, but I like my H100. Looks sleek and and the cpu cooler doesn't take up your entire case!

Speaking of cooling...I got an additional fan from Microcenter yesterday. In my 500r there's two 120mm intake fans up front, and one 200mm fan on the door blowing onto the 580s. By default the rear fan is an exhaust, and I currenty have the H100 configured as an exhaust. With that being said, would it be better to make the rear fan an intake? That way it's bringing air in and out through the H100, or would it be better to leave it how it is? Seems to me that having a rear exhaust as well as the H100 exhaust fans cancel each other out..?

If I had the H100 fans as an intake in push/pull I think it'd make more sense to keep the rear fan as an exhaust

I (had) a similar setup in my 600T. For intake: front 200mm, side 200mm. Exhaust: Rear 120, 2x120 top (exhaust push over H100). I played around with both the side and rear, and I had the best temps this way. CPU was about 3-5C cooler with same ambients, GPU's were about 5-8C cooler just in flipping around rear exhaust.

Also, please tell me you aren't using the Corsair 200mm! Using all BitFenix Spectre Pro's in my 600T now. I'm in love with the 120s, but am not crazy about the 200mm ones.
 
Well, I got my shipment from NewEgg last night...

BO94Xh.jpg

ge3sW.jpg

They clearly didn't put any thought into packaging...

I'll have the whole thing put together tonight; hopefully nothing's broken, but I'm a little annoyed regardless.
 

Karmum

Banned
Got it for 44.99 on December 15th (no tax or shipping). And while I appreciate the deal, I'm not smiling one bit about how Seagate and WD consolidated and colluded the market.
Very true, I'm smiling (or a better word is glad) that I got one at a reasonable price before the dicking began, definitely not happy that people are getting dicked over now for it.
 

kennah

Member
Well, I got my shipment from NewEgg last night...



They clearly didn't put any thought into packaging...

I'll have the whole thing put together tonight; hopefully nothing's broken, but I'm a little annoyed regardless.

Weird. I ordered a single printer cartridge and it came in a 18"x18" box with 4x4 of that the cartridge and the rest paper.
 
Which Seagate model are you comparing?

Which Samsung F3 storage model?

The Samsung is 500gb, its 89 bucks. I don't know the Seagate one yet but assuming they are within the same range, is there a significant difference? The Seagate is close to the same price, maybe a bit cheaper.
 

Smokey

Member
I (had) a similar setup in my 600T. For intake: front 200mm, side 200mm. Exhaust: Rear 120, 2x120 top (exhaust push over H100). I played around with both the side and rear, and I had the best temps this way. CPU was about 3-5C cooler with same ambients, GPU's were about 5-8C cooler just in flipping around rear exhaust.

Also, please tell me you aren't using the Corsair 200mm! Using all BitFenix Spectre Pro's in my 600T now. I'm in love with the 120s, but am not crazy about the 200mm ones.
Still using default 200mm. Just now getting around to changing out fans.

And so I'm clear you had best results with rear as exhaust and h100 exhaust (my current setup)?
 

scogoth

Member
Well, I got my shipment from NewEgg last night...



They clearly didn't put any thought into packaging...

I'll have the whole thing put together tonight; hopefully nothing's broken, but I'm a little annoyed regardless.

With this and amazon I'm glad ncix is my main parts provider, they package things very well, sometimes too well. When I ordered my water block it came in a 2ft box stuffed with bubble wrap and paper.
 
Is there anywhere that I can buy PC parts online using paypal? Newegg acts like you can, but when I get to the payment page it looks to me like it is going to pull money out of my linked bank account to pay for it instead of using my PP balance which is more than enough.

I was going to just transfer the money over from PP to my linked bank account but PP requires the names on both accounts to be the same, and they are not. And I'm not going to change the name on the PP account to match it either.
 

clav

Member
The Samsung is 500gb, its 89 bucks. I don't know the Seagate one yet but assuming they are within the same range, is there a significant difference? The Seagate is close to the same price, maybe a bit cheaper.

Just wanted to compare platter design as that's the most important.

I think by now all manufacturers in their new models are single platter for 500GB drives.

Vertex 4 and Everest 2

Looks interesting, a few firmware updates and this will challenge Samsung and sandforce. Anand also alluded to more new SSDs coming out so we should have an interesting summer storage wise.

OCZ owns Indilinx now? Whoa.

This should be a step to change its SSD reliability image.
 

Shambles

Member
Vertex 4 and Everest 2

Looks interesting, a few firmware updates and this will challenge Samsung and sandforce. Anand also alluded to more new SSDs coming out so we should have an interesting summer storage wise.

Buggy firmware, cherry picked 512GB results. I'll wait for the real reviews and pricing when it's actually out. It's not competitive to the 830 how it looks now. SSD market has been very disappointing the past 6-8 months. I'd bet we'll only see prices at $1/GB at the end of the year, they haven't moved much for quite some time.
 

ZetaEpyon

Member
Well, I got my shipment from NewEgg last night...



They clearly didn't put any thought into packaging...

I'll have the whole thing put together tonight; hopefully nothing's broken, but I'm a little annoyed regardless.

Wow, that's the worst packaging I've ever seen from Newegg. I'd get on a live-chat with one of their customer service reps and complain, if that was mine.
 
Just wanted to compare platter design as that's the most important.

I think by now all manufacturers in their new models are single platter for 500GB drives.



OCZ owns Indilinx now? Whoa.

This should be a step to change its SSD reliability image.

Is seagate pretty decent overall? I've disliked them ever since the whole firmware fiasco on their hard drives years ago. Them and Hitachi are like the only two I avoid.
 
Just wanted to compare platter design as that's the most important.

I think by now all manufacturers in their new models are single platter for 500GB drives.

Awesome, thanks. Its a single platter.

I got smashed on HDD prices because I bought a 1TB before the Thailand incident and returned it. I think it was like 70 at the time (CAD)
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
So if I buy a Crucial SSD with the transfer kit for my netbook, will I encounter any problem at all? Like, Windows 7 not transferring over well for instance?
 
Reinstalled windows yesterday to get rid of a pesky ass virus that nothing on earth would even find (feels good to burn it all down and start over any way). Went fine got everything back last night. Woke up this morning and it boots into recovery mode telling me windows failed to start. Startup repair doesn't work, giving me a long list of numbers and words. Restart, it goes into Windows this time, but most of my programs are gone. Folders were still there for them, but no files inside. What the shit!? Try to do a system restore to last night, then it gets stuck in an infinite startup repair loop. So, burning it all down again.

Thought I'd share my pain. Don't know what the shit happened.
 
So, what is more important to get at this time? An i5 2400 and an HD 6870, or an i3 2100 and a 560ti?

Can I play games on max settings with an i3 and the 6870?

I pretty much want to play games like the Witcher 2 on their max settings. I'm sticking with an H61 mobo and I'm not planning on overclocking.

Also, is there a problem with getting this case (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6430029&sku=A406-2018) if I put a powerful PSU in it (I'm looking at the one in the OP, but I need to see if it will fit.)?
 

MrBig

Member
So if I buy a Crucial SSD with the transfer kit for my netbook, will I encounter any problem at all? Like, Windows 7 not transferring over well for instance?

As in transferring your whole OS? I really wouldn't recomend doing that for HDDs, let alone SSDs. Do a clean install and transfer stuff you need if your laptop doesn't have two 2.5" bays.
e: Oh you said netbook. So definitely no secondary drive slot, but still I wouldn't recommend porting over your old install.

SSDs will be under $100 for a 120-128 gig drive by the end of the year.

I'll probably be skipping it in my initial purchase and then grabbing one whenever I get Windows 8.

I hadn't really looked into the Asus Z77 boards before now. Damn do they have a huge improvement in features over Z68.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
As in transferring your whole OS? I really wouldn't recomend doing that for HDDs, let alone SSDs. Do a clean install and transfer stuff you need if your laptop doesn't have two 2.5" bays.
e: Oh you said netbook. So definitely no secondary drive slot, but still I wouldn't recommend porting over your old install.

Yeah. Basically if I buy a Crucial drive they give me a piece of cloning software (Apricorn EZ Gig III apparently) and a USB to SATA cable. Do you think it would work that way?

If not, how can I do a clean install, since I don't have a disc for Windows? All I really want to transfer is the OS.
 

scogoth

Member
Yeah. Basically if I buy a Crucial drive they give me a piece of cloning software (Apricorn EZ Gig III apparently) and a USB to SATA cable. Do you think it would work that way?

If not, how can I do a clean install, since I don't have a disc for Windows? All I really want to transfer is the OS.

Cloning should work fine. I would recommend acronis true image but you would have to pay for it.
 

MrBig

Member
Yeah. Basically if I buy a Crucial drive they give me a piece of cloning software (Apricorn EZ Gig III apparently) and a USB to SATA cable. Do you think it would work that way?

If not, how can I do a clean install, since I don't have a disc for Windows? All I really want to transfer is the OS.

If that's what you want to do and they give you the tools to do it then have at it.

You can do a clean install of windows via a USB drive.
 

Hawk269

Member
Kepler GK110. I don't know if GTX 680 even has enough VRAM. I'd think OC'd GTX 680 in SLI would do the trick?

And again, ubersampling is stupid. It's just supersampling, dude. And once you do ubersampling 2, there is always Ubersampling x3, x4, x5, x6... it never ends. Just enjoy what you've got! Why keep burning up money?

I tested the VRAM limits in Witcher 2 at 1080p with Ubersampling and the highest amount of VRAM used is 950mb. So the performance in Uber mode is not due to hitting a V-Ram wall or anything like that. Now, I don't have any .ini tweaks put in yet, I know I need to add the ones you advised like more texture memory and the one that reduces the LOD. Right now trying to find the thread and the post where you had the settings you created.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Thanks for the replies

Cloning should work fine. I would recommend acronis true image but you would have to pay for it.

Well, it's not too expensive (40€ where I am) but if I can get by without forking the dough that would be great... I'll ask the Crucial guys and see on their forums if anyone has run into problems with the software they provide.

You can do a clean install of windows via a USB drive.

How so? How much space would you need?
 
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