ProtoCents
Banned
No. I am currently just deciding which parts to buy for a new PC from scratch. Guild Wars 2 is the game on the horizon of interest. Of course, I want it to be viable down the road as well.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"I need a New PC!" 2012 Thread. 22nm+28nm, Tri-Gate, and reading the OP. [Part 1]
- Thread starter Hazaro
- Start date
- Status
No. I am currently just deciding which parts to buy for a new PC from scratch. Guild Wars 2 is the game on the horizon of interest. Of course, I want it to be viable down the road as well.
I need help, my new PC is showing some problems since last night, I really don't know what could it be, I recorded a video so if anyone who recognize the symptoms pleas tell me what I'm doing wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgTVXzHuSFw&feature=g-upl
After I get this artifacting, it freezes and I have to reset the machine.
My setup is as follows:
Core i5 2500K Stock Clocks
Sapphire 7850 @ 1050 GPU Clock 1250 Memory Clock (right now is at stock clocks)
MoBo P8Z77 LV K
PSU Antec BP550
I've done stress test with the card and everything went great, also I haven't got this problem while playing long sessions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgTVXzHuSFw&feature=g-upl
After I get this artifacting, it freezes and I have to reset the machine.
My setup is as follows:
Core i5 2500K Stock Clocks
Sapphire 7850 @ 1050 GPU Clock 1250 Memory Clock (right now is at stock clocks)
MoBo P8Z77 LV K
PSU Antec BP550
I've done stress test with the card and everything went great, also I haven't got this problem while playing long sessions:
Usually a sign that drivers are funky, but most likely that hardware might be going bad. The fact that it doesnt happen under load is what is confusing me though.
'Enhanced' or 'Excellent' should run it well. The game is really scalable though. Were you hoping to run it with some pretty high settings?
I have the logs from GPUZ and the GPU was idle every time It happened, how do I unisntall and install the drivers again?
The best stuff you can afford. Excellent is the best value.
Uninstall through Catalyst manager. Restart. Run CCleaner or Driver Sweeper to get rid of extra stuff. Restart. Install latest beta drivers.
OK, I did that, played a good session of Space Marine everything on Max for 2 hours and it's been stable.
Not related question: is there a way to get 5.1 from on board sound? I have a P8Z77 V LK.
Thanks in advance.
Fill out the bullet sheet list.
dragonlife
Member
Copied from another thread. i thought it'd be appropriate here, too, since the other one can move fast at times:
Hey, guys, friend bought Saints and asked me if I could help him figure something out, but it's beyond me. Is he screwed because there's no answer? His last resort is just uninstalling stuff.
"Again, in summary, my computer's HDD is broken into three sections: C drive (440 GB), SDATA1 (232 GB) and SDATA2 (232 GB). C Drive is now full. I want to install and play Saints. How do I get it to install to the available space on the other drives? And will Steam know to look to each respective drive when pulling a given game? Ideally, I'll be able to toggle some switch, download Saints, and no matter what game I play, no matter where the game is located, it'll find it on the appropriate HDD and boot it up."
Is that even possible? Any help would be great.
Hey, guys, friend bought Saints and asked me if I could help him figure something out, but it's beyond me. Is he screwed because there's no answer? His last resort is just uninstalling stuff.
"Again, in summary, my computer's HDD is broken into three sections: C drive (440 GB), SDATA1 (232 GB) and SDATA2 (232 GB). C Drive is now full. I want to install and play Saints. How do I get it to install to the available space on the other drives? And will Steam know to look to each respective drive when pulling a given game? Ideally, I'll be able to toggle some switch, download Saints, and no matter what game I play, no matter where the game is located, it'll find it on the appropriate HDD and boot it up."
Is that even possible? Any help would be great.
The network adapter will be fine, dont worry about it. Did you by those bits new or used?
Wolf Akela
Member
You could upgrade to a 6870. It's roughly $10-15 more.
Z77 motherboard since it leaves room for a future processor upgrade. Now, if you're only planning an overhaul after a very long time, you can downgrade to an H61.
Z77 motherboard since it leaves room for a future processor upgrade. Now, if you're only planning an overhaul after a very long time, you can downgrade to an H61.
I have a defect on my Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H so I was going to RMA it. But because of multiple problems and it being quite new I was considering on buying a different motherboard.
Would it be a good idea if I bought a ASUS Maximus V Gene instead because I'd like to avoid problems and my current one apparently has some unforeseen problems.
OR should I maybe get the Asus P8Z77-V Pro, I was happy with the Gigabyte outputs/inputs but because of the defects and other annoyances I'd like to have a similiar mobo.
OR just keep the same Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H because I have this one already and RMA it.
Would it be a good idea if I bought a ASUS Maximus V Gene instead because I'd like to avoid problems and my current one apparently has some unforeseen problems.
OR should I maybe get the Asus P8Z77-V Pro, I was happy with the Gigabyte outputs/inputs but because of the defects and other annoyances I'd like to have a similiar mobo.
OR just keep the same Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H because I have this one already and RMA it.
EternalGamer
Banned
I think I have a good build here, but I really don't know. Feedback is helpful, I wanna build a good gaming machine!
Upgrade to an I5. I3 are dualcores. In two years they will definitely be extremely outdated. I5s are quadcores. If you are on a budget, go for an i5 2400. That is WAY more important than an upgrade to a 6870. 6850s can be overclocked or cross fired later but you are stuck with the processor for (hopefully) a long time.
Like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...H&N=-1&isNodeId=1&Description=I5+2400&x=0&y=0 I know its $80 more (if you live next to a Microcenter they have them for $119 though!) but it is worth it. You could go with a 450w Antec Basq ppwer supply for $30 cheaper if you need to cut somewhere to make the i5 happen. It would still be plenty enough power. You would also be fine with 4gb of RAM for now. Like this Samsung RAM for $23. You can always add more later.And most games dont use more than 4gb currently. Just avoid having a ton of browser tabs open when you game.
Make those two changes and your build price only increases $30 with the i5 2400 and you have a system that is much more powerful and much more likely to have longevity. Everything else looks good.
metalshade
Member
Gordon Bennett!
I need to stop shopping around for video cards!
I have confused myself now, and I need someone who knows more than I do (shouldnt be hard lol.)
I have already decided I want a 6870 in my build, but I am confused as to which one I should buy.
These are the two that are competing.
Asus card.
http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/part/asus-video-card-eah6870dc2di2s1gd5
MSI card.
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-...am-processors-hdmi-2x-mini-displayport-2x-dvi
Sorry guys but I just am not sure.
Edit: Just noticed that the Asus doesnt have an HDMI port, and I will be wiring it up to my TV which has HDMI or VGA plugs, can I still use the Asus?
Is there a way to convert into HDMI or VGA from display port or DVI-I? I dont really want to plug into seperate speakers either like VGA would require though.
I need to stop shopping around for video cards!
I have confused myself now, and I need someone who knows more than I do (shouldnt be hard lol.)
I have already decided I want a 6870 in my build, but I am confused as to which one I should buy.
These are the two that are competing.
Asus card.
http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/part/asus-video-card-eah6870dc2di2s1gd5
MSI card.
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-...am-processors-hdmi-2x-mini-displayport-2x-dvi
Sorry guys but I just am not sure.
Edit: Just noticed that the Asus doesnt have an HDMI port, and I will be wiring it up to my TV which has HDMI or VGA plugs, can I still use the Asus?
Is there a way to convert into HDMI or VGA from display port or DVI-I? I dont really want to plug into seperate speakers either like VGA would require though.
EternalGamer
Banned
Just curious, why do you say a z77 would leave room for future upgrades over the motherboard he has now?
Charrettizard
Member
I'm thinking about converting my current PC into an HTPC, or at least into something small enough that it can fit on top of my desk or a shelf in my living room. The noteworthy parts:
Intel 2500k
5770
500 HDD
My goal is to turn my machine from a huge, bulky waste of space into something that qualifies as small form factor - I want this thing to take up as little room as possible. Currently I have an ATX board in it, but I'm assuming if I'm going to go small, I'll need to swap it out for mATX - which is no problem at all. I'm just looking for suggestions on cases from those who have already made similar conversions.
Also, for those who use Blu-ray drives: will I notice a difference between the cheap, internal Blu-ray drives compared to the one in my PS3?
Intel 2500k
5770
500 HDD
My goal is to turn my machine from a huge, bulky waste of space into something that qualifies as small form factor - I want this thing to take up as little room as possible. Currently I have an ATX board in it, but I'm assuming if I'm going to go small, I'll need to swap it out for mATX - which is no problem at all. I'm just looking for suggestions on cases from those who have already made similar conversions.
Also, for those who use Blu-ray drives: will I notice a difference between the cheap, internal Blu-ray drives compared to the one in my PS3?
I disagree, most games are horrible at using more than two cores and those that aren't are often very GPU limited.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-gaming-pc-overclock,3159-18.html
In the current 650$ computer they used an i3 2120 with a 6950 and in the older 600$ computer they used an i5 2400 with a 6870. A 2120 with a 6950 is cheaper than a 2400 with a 6870. If he uses the computer for rendering, video editing etc. the i5 is of course better, but for everyday tasks and gaming the i3 is more than enough.
derExperte
Member
More and more games use four cores and this trend will accelerate. On avergae a dual core can compete but if you look at minimum framerates it's another story. I really wouldn't recommend less than an i5 if someone wants to build a gaming rig right now and it's easier to change the graphics card later on than a CPU.
EternalGamer
Banned
Yeah most games now, you are correct. When the new console gen comes next year, you are probably fucked. No way those are things are gonna be dual core. The main reason dualcores currently test as well in games is because most games aren't yet designed to take advantage of the quadcores yet.
Just brought another msi 580 lightning xtreme. Temps idle at 41 with fan about 65. I have another 580 that idles around 31, sometimes 29. As of now I'm not to worried because I brought it from a reseller which was in vey good condition, but It came with a ton of dust. Hopefully with more use it will unclog. As of now I'm using a dust removal. Any tips and advice?
Simplified the 360 has a tricore (with 6 threads) and the PS3 has a hexacore and one core for the OS and games. I'm certain games will take more advantage of more than two cores in the future, but the price is 50% higher.
Metro 2033 is good at that today, it even makes the 8120 look like a good CPU stock.
Looking at how well the Phenom IIs fare is is also obvious Metro 2033 also likes AMD CPUs.
EternalGamer
Banned
Yes the price is close to 50% higher, but I still think it is the best investment you could make in terms of future proofing. Certainly more important than having that bigger watt powersupply or 8gb RAM out of the gate. Like I said, he makes those two changes and the cost difference of a build with an i3 and an i5 2400 is only $30.
I'm assuming, of course, the guy doesn't want to have to be worried about upgrading in a couple of years. If I were him, that $80 for a quadcore would definitely be the direction I would go. I would feel a lot more secure building a system around an i5. I know there are no guarantees in anything when it comes to future proofing but the capabilities of the i5 outstrip the i3s significantly. It is just a matter of time before they are taken advantage of in games. I'm not arguing that current games do fine on a dual core. I very much understand that. I just don't forsee that continuing when the next gen of consoles hit. I'm not suggesting that he overbet and spend too much money trying to future proof by throwing in an i7 or anything. But an i5 is a very reasonable value proposition for someone who wants a system that will still be very good in a couple of years.
It is also worth noting that you guys are both using the best case scenarios. Look at these example:
The $1000 PC is using an i5 whereas the $500 build is using an i3. The $1000 build does have a better graphics card too, but the $500 build actually has a BETTER card than the 6850 he is planning on putting in his buld. Which means that if he uses a dual core, he can expect lower performance than the ones listed in this chart. (Note: that lower build is also using a 450w power supply and 4gb of ram, like I recommended; on a budget more ram and a better powersupply is a waste). I don't mean to scare him. I mean, that i5 build does ok at 1080p on high settings and you can always lower them. But just barely above or around 50fps. What do you think games are going to look like in two years? I doubt the new consoles are going to have graphics cards much more powerful than a 6800 series. But they damn wells sure are going to have at least quadcore processors.
At least use the Tom's review that compares apples to apples. Haz and I have linked it countless times. On mobile now though. Tests a bunch of games with a 7970 on different processors.
TL;DR
The only time you see a huge difference in frames between processors is when the game is single threaded AND likes speedy cores. Almost all modern multi threaded or n-threaded games are entirely GPU bottle necked. BF3 and Civ V are the prime examples.
I do not mean to imply that future games will work this way, simply correcting some erroneous citing on this page.
Let's avoid speculation regarding future performance until we can do some benches on UE4. That'll be the telling engine.
Edit*
Got it - http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-fx-pentium-apu-benchmark,3120.html
Also, i5 and i3 have the same number of threads. The performance differences between the two is almost entirely attributed to the linear increase in speed from the higher clock.
TL;DR
The only time you see a huge difference in frames between processors is when the game is single threaded AND likes speedy cores. Almost all modern multi threaded or n-threaded games are entirely GPU bottle necked. BF3 and Civ V are the prime examples.
I do not mean to imply that future games will work this way, simply correcting some erroneous citing on this page.
Let's avoid speculation regarding future performance until we can do some benches on UE4. That'll be the telling engine.
Edit*
Got it - http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-fx-pentium-apu-benchmark,3120.html
Also, i5 and i3 have the same number of threads. The performance differences between the two is almost entirely attributed to the linear increase in speed from the higher clock.
EternalGamer
Banned
I was mainly citing that to indicate the type of performance he can expect. Those benchmarks are with a better graphics card than his current build.
"Avoiding speculation" sounds good theoretically but for people who are building a new system that they hope will last for a while, it's kind of a necessary evil to some extent. Obviously, I don't have a crystal ball. But I'm am pretty sure the new consoles will have at least quad core processors. I think that is a pretty safe bet.
Would you actually recommend someone put a dual core in a new PC build today? Seems like a pretty hefty investment to me for that gamble that it won't matter down the line.
FFfuuu, if I'm buying anything hardware again it's coming from Amazon.
Gonna cost me £10 to send my 7850 to them that's faulty, it's going to take between 3-5 days to test and then around another 28 apparently for the card then to be sent off to MSI.
Amazon would've just refunded me or given me a new one, lesson learnt, although mentioned this to Novatech on Twitter and they're going to see what they can do about it.
Gonna cost me £10 to send my 7850 to them that's faulty, it's going to take between 3-5 days to test and then around another 28 apparently for the card then to be sent off to MSI.
Amazon would've just refunded me or given me a new one, lesson learnt, although mentioned this to Novatech on Twitter and they're going to see what they can do about it.
EternalGamer
Banned
Alright, clearly the jury has spoken here.
I still think you guys are incorrect because all the "data" is based around benchmarks for current games (as it of course, would have to be). Of course there wouldn't be any data to support what I'm saying. We haven't seen the games yet. If it were me personally, I wouldn't take that gamble. I'd rather go with a cheaper powersupply and less ram and add $30 to the cost of my build. But apparently, that's just me.
Just to be clear, here, though, you are the same dude that, when a few pages back I wrote this:
Originally Posted by EternalGamer said:
mkenyon said:
I realize this isn't contradictory given your "within their budget" line, but still you agreed that if they use quad core AMD procesors they would want code that took advantage of it and that i5's are a great value proposition.
Yes there is data, and its *counter* to what you are saying. Granted, these aren't engines designed specifically for the unreleased next gen consoles, but games that have efficient or n-threaded processor use don't have significant differences in frames. Its the old crap where you see bigger differences, like UE3, and SC2.
*edit
That's exactly what I'm saying. The real discussion is 4T vs 8/12T performance. i3s and i5s BOTH have four threads. Your line you are trying to draw is put between the wrong two chips.
*edit
That's exactly what I'm saying. The real discussion is 4T vs 8/12T performance. i3s and i5s BOTH have four threads. Your line you are trying to draw is put between the wrong two chips.
Depends what kind of gamer you are. I'm still using a $500 O/C PC I assembled back in 2007 to play games although I play mostly Indie titles and mainstream games (e.g. Starcraft 2).
If you just want to play blockbusters, any setup listed in the OP will last.
If you want to play CPU/GPU intensive games on the highest settings two years from now, then you better get a beefy setup. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter a whole lot.
If you just want to play blockbusters, any setup listed in the OP will last.
If you want to play CPU/GPU intensive games on the highest settings two years from now, then you better get a beefy setup. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter a whole lot.
EternalGamer
Banned
I realize that. And I'm usually the one arguing for the lower value proposition. I just think on the brink of a new generation of console hardware, an i5 is a better investment if you are building a new PC at this very moment.
I can somewhat see your point as the only two games I've realized that I may benefit from a better CPU are the Battlefield games and Starcraft 2 although I can run them on medium settings.
However, the fact that the i3 can actually run those two games way better than what my 2007 CPU can says a lot about it. The i3 is a decent CPu for gaming. The mentality is the price range.
BF3 has almost identical performance between a 2500k and an i3 with the same GPU. SC2 has differences because its single threaded, so it benefits from speedier cores.
EG, it might help you understand the situation better if you looked at procs from a threaded standpoint over 'cores'. Its the very same reason the 3820 and 2600k does much better in multimedia than the 2500k.
To say again clearly, the single largest difference in performance between the i3 and i5 is the frequency, not cores. They are both 4T procs.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Yesterday my SSD in my PC died. It was weird, I got up from ym desk, came back and my monitors were black, and my cursor had a "in progress" symbol going. So I waited a little bit, then I hit the CTRL-Alt-Del and nothing happened. I powered down my machine, it came back up with a message saying something like, "Replace drive with a bootable drive and hit any key" or whatever.
I then made sure my SSD was connected correctly, made sure that it was all good. Rebooted, same message. I then looked at the bios and the freaking drive doesn't even appear anymore in the boot sequence. It is like it has disappeared completely. I am going to get another drive today to replace it, not sure I want to go the SSD route again, though this may be an isolated incident. It was an OCZ SSD.
I then made sure my SSD was connected correctly, made sure that it was all good. Rebooted, same message. I then looked at the bios and the freaking drive doesn't even appear anymore in the boot sequence. It is like it has disappeared completely. I am going to get another drive today to replace it, not sure I want to go the SSD route again, though this may be an isolated incident. It was an OCZ SSD.
You made a huge mistake. OCZ makes notoriously problem laden SSDs.
Crucial M4, Samsung 830, or Intel.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Yeah....I see that now. Live and Learn and all that. I am hoping that replacing the SSD, then installing windows again on it is all I have to do.
This is a list of parts I made to look for:
I am not gonna be looking for other parts since I can just randomly get a case etc..just get the bigger hitters...is this list complete? I have to go to a physical location (not in USA sadly so its not easy) and price parts out..at least I get to duke (barter) it out with the boss man.
I am not gonna be looking for other parts since I can just randomly get a case etc..just get the bigger hitters...is this list complete? I have to go to a physical location (not in USA sadly so its not easy) and price parts out..at least I get to duke (barter) it out with the boss man.
CambriaRising
Member
Get the evga 670 FTW edition if you can find it. It is really close to 680 performance for only 10-20 dollars more. It even uses the same pcb and clock speeds.
It just depends how restrictive the person's budget is imo. If they really cannot spend that extra $60 now, or if they spend it on a GPU now, they getter better performance across way more titles for at least a year.
Sell the i3 and upgrade to SB/IB K model down the line when they have more money or need an upgrade.
Pricing from what I've seen in photos is very similar to US pricing so you should be good.
All of it is new.
Thanks!
_______________________________
Also got a question about PCI wireless adapter cards, which to get? I have an N capable router at home and it will be only temp til I go to my new place (than I figure I can use it as a ad-hoc thing maybe for wifi at home or kai or something)..or should I just use apatch cable with my netbook til I move?
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
At this point, would replacing the SSD and re-installing windows all I have to do? I have a 1TB drive that has my games/picutres/videos/etc. that is sitting in the machine as well.
Doubt you'll find the eVGA where you are, the ones I listed are all good choices.
If your patch/crossover works, fine? Not sure how cheap wireless g/n cards are over there. Probably a lot of cheaper near OEM things. If you can return it if it doesn't work, just get something.
Ok so this is my current setup since about 1.5 years:
i7-950 ~3.1 ghz
msi gtx580 1.5gb
asus sabretooth x58
6gb ddr3 1600mhz
how long do you guys think i can go by just swapping out a new gpu for my current one without bottlenecking my cpu? since ps4/720 are about to arrive i'm expecting quite a bit bump up in the minimum required specs to run those titles and don't want to to make my pc obsolete
i7-950 ~3.1 ghz
msi gtx580 1.5gb
asus sabretooth x58
6gb ddr3 1600mhz
how long do you guys think i can go by just swapping out a new gpu for my current one without bottlenecking my cpu? since ps4/720 are about to arrive i'm expecting quite a bit bump up in the minimum required specs to run those titles and don't want to to make my pc obsolete
Do you think this system would be able to run next gen games at any settings?i'll be getting ps4 and nextbox but don't want to move away completely from pc gaming.....
- Status