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[Toma]

Alright, I asked this earlier in the thread:

Hey guys, got a graphics card problem. My GTX560 3GB isnt doing as good as it should. Doing the ingame benchmark for Batman Arkham Asylum with the highest settings on 1920*1080 gives me a whopping 11 FPS average, lowest 7 FPS.

The only thing I found so far that might contribute to this is the following.

This is how the clocking should look for a normal GTX560 according to some guy online who made a tutorial on something:

And this is how the clock speed actually looks for me:

Any help whats my issue? I am no expert, but the Memory clock shouldnt be missing that much, right?

CPU: i7-2600. 3,4GHz
RAM: 8 GB DDR3
OS: Windows 7-64 bit

The question now is: Is my graphics card even remotely legit?

If there is someone reasonably saying that my card may be indeed a legit GTX 560, I'll back off from telling pc magazines/consumer protection about it.

Okay, the problem is this:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=220461
The main offender: The advertised 3gb dont seem to be GDDR5 Ram, but SDDR3.

Here are the official GTX560 specifications.

This seems to be my exact problem. The GTX560 I have in my PC is in no way, shape or form a GTX 560. You can see the difference in memory clock rates above. Additionally, it would be the only version of the GTX 560 that I can find that only uses one 6-pin to power itself. It also uses ridiculously low power (I can run my PC setup with a 350W PSU and use the GTX to 98% without problems) and I cant even find any manufacturer who actually assembled this card. I also bought a new PSU (520W) since I thought that this might be the issue that the card isnt as powerful as it could be. Hasnt changed a thing.

I know that the manufacturers change and improve on graphics cards, but is it even possible to make the GTX 560 this bad? Or is the explanation that they took a worse graphics card and manufactured it to look like a 560 more likely? There is no way to change the memory clock rate to anything above 639.

I'll make some photos in a few minutes. In the mean time, there are other questions:

I'd like to check the memory interface (should be gddr5, right?), the gpu cores(should be 336) and the amount of shaders (should be 256) it has. I installed GPU-Z/GPU-ID but I have no idea where to look for this stuff.

Alright, is it even remotely possible that this thing is a legit GTX 560? Drivers are up to date btw.

eBay description:

Mine:

Other real pics are linked here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34240314&postcount=1658

 

[ConstructMe]

That looks real short for a 560, plus do they even make 3gb versions?

 

[Corky]

er wow that picture looks really suspicious, that looks like an extremely small and low-end gpu

 

[Sethos]

Looks like a GT220 ...

 

[Toma]

That looks real short for a 560, plus do they even make 3gb versions?

Only that ebay shop and probably retailers that got that "560" from the same source sell that 3GB version. The claim is that its a legit german/austrian only card, but I cant find any official statement or manufacturer anywhere.

And I am seriously pissed, so pissed in fact that just taking it back wont cut it in this case for me. I want all these cards go down in flames.

 

[ConstructMe]

Only that ebay shop and probably retailers that got that "560" from the same source sell that 3GB version. The claim is that its a legit german/austrian only card, but I cant find any official statement or manufacturer anywhere.

And I am seriously pissed, so pissed in fact that just taking it back wont cut it in this case for me. I want all these cards go down in flames.

Wat a shit situation to be in.

 

[Toma]

Alright, got the pictures of the card, uploading.

 

[Toma]

And I just noticed that there is written SDDR3 there instead of GDDR5. So thats that.

 

[Sethos]

Found this on my trusty local hardware site,

Maybe they are legit but just in a serious budget range?

 

[Toma]

Found this on my trusty local hardware site,

Maybe they are legit but just some serious budget builds?

Well thats a 550Ti though, not a 560. I havent found any 560 that only needs 1 6-pin for the power. There was someone guessing that this might be a 550Ti in disguise. But the Memory clock rate is even lower than the mem clock rate of 550Ti's.

 

[Sethos]

Well thats a 550TI though, not a 560.

Yeah that's still the same line of cards. It's basically just upping the clock slightly and it's a 560 ( Not a 'real' 560 I know ) but in this budget range of cards.

But yeah, does smell like a 550 with stickers taken off, firmware flashed perhaps and then re-sold?

Does seem very dodgy indeed.

 

[Toma]

Yeah that's still the same line of cards. It's basically just upping the clock slightly and it's a 560 ( Not a 'real' 560 I know ).

But nVidia isnt giving out the card "line" to manufacturers, are they? They give them the base components for a 550Ti from which they need to build a 550Ti. The manufacturer surely cant go around just calling it 560, especially if the power is even WORSE than a 550Ti.

But yeah, does smell like a 550 with stickers taken off, firmware flashed perhaps and then re-sold?

Does seem very dodgy indeed.

My current best guess as well. Trying to get a local computer shop onto the issue to verify that as well.

 

[Sethos]

But nVidia isnt giving out the card "line" to manufacturers, are they? They give them the base components for a 550Ti from which they need to build a 550Ti. The manufacturer surely cant go around just calling it 560, especially if the power is even WORSE than a 550Ti.

I know manufactures work off reference design cards from Nvidia while some companies modify the reference design slightly to fit their cooling solutions, additional RAM etc. but as to labelling it incorrectly and even as a line of cards that is much more powerful, that isn't "allowed" by Nvidia.

 

[Veins]

I believe Nvidia just give the right to use the design of the GPU they have created and then it's up to the vendor to manufacture it.

Also what brand is your card?

There is only a Nvidia sticker on it? Looks like some sort of counterfeit if they just labelled it Nvidia. Nvidia don't actually manufacture any of the cards.

It's not a reference design 560 that's for sure. Did you buy it off eBay? Who was the seller?

 

[Kinan]

So what does GPU-Z says about this card? Is it even remotely something like this:

 

[Toma]

I believe Nvidia just give the right to use the design of the GPU they have created and then it's up to the vendor to manufacture it.

Also what brand is your card?

There is only a Nvidia sticker on it? Looks like some sort of counterfeit if they just labelled it Nvidia. Nvidia don't actually manufacture any of the cards.

It's not a reference design 560 that's for sure. Did you buy it off eBay? Who was the seller?

I bought it as a complete PC offer from a german online shop called Shinobee/Hardwaremania24. This is the link to the offer:
http://shinobee.de/mod_info.php?mod_id=03918

Funnily enough the picture they use for the ad also says 550Ti, which means the actual description could just be a typo, if it werent for the fact that there is actually 560 written on the card and in the firmware.

 

[Veins]

I bought it as a complete PC offer from a german online shop called Shinobee/Hardwaremania24. This is the link to the offer:
http://shinobee.de/mod_info.php?mod_id=03918

Funnily enough the picture they use for the ad also says 550Ti, which means the actual description could just be a typo, if it werent for the fact that there is actually 560 written on the card and in the firmware.

Even if it is a typo, that is bad business. Plus also like you say, the actual card has 560 written on it. Definitely call them out on it and take it back and buy a real 560 from somewhere else if you have to. Good luck man.

 

[Toma]

So what does GPU-Z says about this card? Is it even remotely something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/fMyIj.png
Link to the GPU-Z screenshot

Also this is the printout from CPU-Z:

1-4-8,Intel Core i7 2600,Sandy Bridge,Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz,6.A.7,6.2A,,0,D2,0.0320,#MMX# SSE (1# 2# 3# 3S# 4.1# 4.2)# EM64T# VT-x# AES# AVX,1596.14,16.00,99.76,16.0,34.0,4 x 32-8,4 x 32-8,4 x 256-8,8192-16,Socket 1155 LGA,,intel_corei7_v2,Intel Sandy Bridge rev 09,Intel H61 rev B3,8192,DDR3-SDRAM,665.1,1:5,9.0,9,9,24,,,,2,Crucial Technology,4096,10700,Crucial Technology,4096,10700,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1159035656,3400,ASUSTeK Computer INC.,P8H61-M LE/USB3,NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560,-1024,900,533,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[FoolsRun]

Also this is the printout from CPU-Z:

That's CPU-Z. Try GPU-Z. They're different programs.

 

[Toma]

That's CPU-Z. Try GPU-Z. They're different programs.

Ah thanks.

This is the correct one then:

 

[TGMIII]

So I decided it's about time to replace my old 22" monitor and get something that actually does 1080p. I've been looking to get my hands on the asus vh236h but finding it within the UK is proving to be hard and it's going to be too much to have it brought across from the US so does anyone have any recommendations for a 22"-26" monitor preferably with low input lag.

 

[TheNamelessOne]

Ah thanks.

This is the correct one then:

That seems real fishy. Compare the Bandwidth and Fillrate and you'll see that it's waaay lower than it should be. This sounds like a pirate-card to me.

 

[Unai]

I need to buy a new keyboard. What's the best option out there?

I was taking a look at the logitech G510, but there are some problems with the space bar, or so I've heard.

 

[TGMIII]

I need to buy a new keyboard. What's the best option out there?

I was taking a look at the logitech G510, but there are some problems with the space bar, or so I've heard.

For around the same price as a G510, last time I checked, you could get a razer blackwidow or even look into a DAS keyboard. G510 is a membrane keyboard which I personally find feel like shit compared to a mechanical keyboard like the blackwidow or a DAS.

 

[Toma]

Alright thanks guys. Will wait for their next reply and will contact the police in case I dont like their answer.

 

[chaosblade]

Ah thanks.

This is the correct one then:
-picture-

Totally fake. Die size doesn't match up and that should be a dead give away. Should be 360mm².

And DDR3. :lol No GPU should use DDR3. Maybe GDDR3, that's not the same thing though.

 

[FoolsRun]

Ah thanks. This is the correct one then:

With the exception of the DDR3 memory, your specs more or less match that of a GTX 550. I know there are some companies in Europe that advertise large amounts of memory on lower-end GPUs but use cheaper DDR3 to keep the price down (Inno3D and Point-Of-View seem to be two offenders, based on web searches).

The fact that your card doesn't even have a manufacturer leads me to think you got some bizarre counterfeit.

 

[Wazzim]

That seems real fishy. Compare the Bandwidth and Fillrate and you'll see that it's waaay lower than it should be. This sounds like a pirate-card to me.

Yup, look at my 460 (with custom bios):

 

[Slayer-33]

Pirate card lol, holy shit I never heard of that.

 

[Manp]

That seems real fishy. Compare the Bandwidth and Fillrate and you'll see that it's waaay lower than it should be. This sounds like a pirate-card to me.

seems like a super budget no brand card with (much) lower specs than reference. there always have been such cards.
usually they use a huge amount of crappy ram and a lower price point to allure the less tech savvy people.

Totally fake. Die size doesn't match up and that should be a dead give away. Should be 360mm².

how do you think gpu-z calculate the die size? it gets the value from an internal table based on the GPU model.

from a random 560ti review:

 

[drexplora]

i havent either, very interesting lol

 

[chaosblade]

seems like a super budget no brand card with (much) lower specs than reference. there always have been such cards.
usually they use a huge amount of crappy ram to allure the less tech savvy people.


how do you think gpu-z calculate the die size? it gets the value from an internal table based on the GPU model.

I don't see why the data would be wrong if it's a legit card, that was what I meant.

And if these kind of cards are common at all I feel sorry for anybody who gets scammed into buying one.

Edit: Looks like the table I found was prerelease estimates, at first I thought Nvidia got it wrong too after seeing that picture. And I thought the data was in a small table on the GPU and not the program, I guess that's where I was mixed up.

 

[Manp]

I don't see why the data would be wrong if it's a legit card, that was what I meant.

And if these kind of cards are common at all I feel sorry for anybody who gets scammed into buying one.

here, from a legit GTX560 (from some random guy on nvidia forum)

they have wrong (? i have found multiple sources reporting 332mm2 as the right value btw) data inside gpu-z



EDIT: i should have made it more clear indeed

 

[Toma]

here, from a legit GTX560 (from some random guy on nvidia forum)

they have wrong (? i have found multiple sources reporting 332mm2 as the right value btw) data inside gpu-z

Erm, excuse me, but what does that mean exactly in this case regarding the legitimacy of this card or the arguments used for finding out whether its legit? The other data is still wrong for a gtx 560, right?

 

[Manp]

Erm, excuse me, but what does that mean exactly in this case regarding the legitimacy of this card or the arguments used for finding out whether its legit?

it means the GPU is indeed a GTX 560 but coupled with a huge amount of crappy ram instead of what nvidia put on reference design.

it's not a reference GTX 560 as nvidia intended it. in the same way some vendor put out cards with higher specs than reference, you got one from a vendor that use crappy parts to make a cheaper card.

next time you should buy a card from a well known brand. anyway i'd try to get my money back.

 

[FoolsRun]

it means the GPU is indeed a GTX 560 but coupled with a huge amount of crappy ram instead of what nvidia put on reference design.

A GTX 560 has 336 cores (which your GPU-Z screenshot shows), while a GTX 560 Ti has 384 cores.

His has only 192 cores. I have no idea what parts were cobbled together to make this, but I don't think it's any variation of a 560, or perhaps any other NVidia card known to man. It's the video card equivalent of a platypus.

 

[Smokey]

thats tough right there

 

[Manp]

A GTX 560 has 336 cores (which your GPU-Z screenshot shows), while a GTX 560 Ti has 384 cores.

His has only 192 cores. I have no idea what parts were cobbled together to make this, but I don't think it's any variation of a 560, or perhaps any other NVidia card known to man. It's the video card equivalent of a platypus.

that's totally right. i completely missed it.
they probably make those cards out of chips that have some defective cores and can't be used for "reference specced" 560s, coupled with ram leftovers.

one more point for Toma to demand his money back i guess.

 

[Karmum]

Newegg has non eVGA for 130 or 140. Don't think eVGA is getting any more.

Just saw this post now. That kind of sucks, maybe I'll have to scrounge around eBay or something. I want to SLI, so doesn't it need to be the same brand?

 

[Toma]

that's totally right. i completely missed it.
they probably make those cards out of chips that have some defective cores and can't be used for "reference specced" 560s, coupled with ram leftovers.

one more point for Toma to demand his money back i guess.

I dont only want my money back, since I dont even know how much money they'd give me back, considering I dont know the individual value of the card in the PC I bought from them. I want them to honor the contract in which they sold me a GTX560, AND stop selling those fake 560's. Mails to German Gaming/Hardware magazines and websites and consumer protection are already written and I'll send them in case they dont stop selling these cards and give me at least the money for a GTX560 back. Plus a complaint to the police for fraud.

I mean seriously, they are charging non knowing customers probably almost a full GTX 560 price for that thing while an equivalent card may be available for under 50€.

 

[Manp]

i remember those kind of Frankenstein cards existing since the TNT times and as far as the specs are properly advertised and are accordingly priced they have all the rights to sell them i think.

of course if that thing is advertised and priced as a reference GTX 560 then that's a scam and you should totally report it to police or whoever manages this kind of things in your country.

 

[Toma]

i remember those kind of Frankenstein cards existing since the TNT times and as far as the specs are properly advertised and are accordingly priced they have all the rights to sell them i think.

of course if that thing is advertised and priced as a reference GTX 560 then that's a scam and you should totally report it to police or whoever manages this kind of things in your country.

The only thing that actually was advertised in my case was 3GB of RAM (not even saying that its only SDDR3), so it made me actually think that its a better 560 version than the usual one. The ebay link posted earlier even gives false specs about the cores and whatnot (if its the same card, which it seems to be).

 

[TheExodu5]

Damn, that sucks. Had no idea these kind of fake cards were out there.

One of the first giveaways to watch out for next time is to make sure the memory is only exactly 1 or 2 times the amount of memory that is usual for that card. If it's 3 times, then it means there's no way they can be using a reference design for the card since that would require a different number of RAM chips, not just different capacity RAM chips.

 

[Nabs]

Good luck Toma, that really sucks.

 

[Owensboro]

I'd wager there is a short somewhere. Take it apart and see if theres a screw under the mobo or something. Also did you use mobo standoffs?

Hrmm. I just checked everything and didn't find loose wires or loose screws around my case. What else could it be? I thought it was just Steam causing the crashes but it just happened twice in a row right after I had started my computer back up.

I really don't want to take everything apart again just to check for screws under the mobo. I reused the old standoffs from my previous mobo because my new one didn't come with any (I assumed the came with the case instead of with the mobo itself). Do you think those and the old screws are the problem? Should I make a run to Fry's and pick up another set of standoffs, washers, and screws?

 

[Theonik]

This reminds me of those fake Samsung portable Drives that showed up as 500GB on Windows but only had 256MB of flash in them with a custom firmwire.
This is definitely not a GTX560, it having only 190 cores should be a dead give-away. I'd try and get a refund ASAP.

 

[vazel]

That's just insane. That reminds me of once hearing of people selling Athlon XP CPUs that failed binning and were meant for destruction.

 

[FoolsRun]

Hrmm. I just checked everything and didn't find loose wires or loose screws around my case . . . I reused the old standoffs from my previous mobo because my new one didn't come with any (I assumed the came with the case instead of with the mobo itself). Do you think those and the old screws are the problem? Should I make a run to Fry's and pick up another set of standoffs, washers, and screws?

Standoffs and screws are more or less standard, so whatever you had before should work now. Does your new motherboard have the exact screw layout as the old one? If it's different (or has fewer screws), you could have a stray standoff installed beneath your board that shouldn't be there that's making contact with soldier points and shorting things out.

 

[Blackheim]

Ok so I installed a Sabretooth P97 MB w/I5-2500K. Checked CPUID Hardware Monitor and uhhh, CPUTIN:

Please tell me this program is prone to false readings >_>

Retail version of CPU using stock cooler, had thermal paste pre-applied to heatsink. Oh, and it's seated properly, all pegs on bottom of board match the diagram.

wat

 

[Wazzim]

You can ignore that reading, the rest is fine.