Support NeoGAF

[mkenyon]

Currently using a Corsair CX430 V2 430W.

So based on this I'd probably go with this, this, and this.

I'd suggest going with this motherboard, and if you need to budget for it, there is this 770 that is solid.

Then just go for an Antec BP-550 or Seasonic G-Series 550/650 for the PSU.

Whats the skinny on the Hadron case? I told him to hold out for the Corsair mini itx that is supposed to land in Q1 next year. Interested to see what they have made as they usually cover all the functionality bases.

I forgot about the Hadron entirely. It's actually a pretty good deal considering a PSU is included. Going to add that to the SFF Guide revision for sure.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I'd suggest going with this motherboard, and if you need to budget for it, there is this 770 that is solid.

Then just go for an Antec BP-550 or Seasonic G-Series 550/650 for the PSU.

You linked to the GPU in your motherboard link

 

[mkenyon]

Oops!

Gigabyte Z87-UD3H

 

[cdyhybrid]

Oops!

Gigabyte Z87-UD3H

Got it.

This is the haul then:

I'll go with the original card since I'll have to wait until next month to pay for it either way.

Thanks!

 

[kennah]

The Hadron fell completely after my radar after learning that the 'air' model won't support an H60 and the 'water' model being super ugly.

 

[Owari]

So my 5970 is still kicking, but barely. I'd really like to upgrade to a 770 4gb but there really hasn't been a great deal on them at all this year. Should I just wait until January/CES for them to announce new cards? I'm so confused.

Also will a quad core AMD and a 770 be able to drive a 1440p screen with relatively no issues?

 

[HoosTrax]

Not at all. Just dumped a Lightning 7970 for $430

Guess I'm looking at either a GTX780 or the Ti, considering R290-something-or-other-wasn't-that-a-NV-model-five-years-ago is probably absurdly price-gouged at the moment for the same reason.

 

[batman2million]

Guess I'm looking at either a GTX780 or the Ti, considering R290-something-or-other-wasn't-that-a-NV-model-five-years-ago is probably absurdly price-gouged at the moment for the same reason.

Looking at the same thing. This whole 290 drama is getting on my last nerve then I saw the pricing being at $529 plus with the issue of availability, yeah it looks like I'm just gonna go back to team green.

 

[scogoth]

The Hadron fell completely after my radar after learning that the 'air' model won't support an H60 and the 'water' model being super ugly.

When is the water model going to come out?

EDIT: aaaaaand google tells me its out.

 

[Seanspeed]

Can somebody explain exactly what the fuck this Litemining is and how does it make AMD cards more expensive?

I mean, are people actually buying these cards at these outrageous prices? :/ How does that work?

 

[cdyhybrid]

Forgot to add in a heatsink for OCing, throwing this in there too!

This will be compatible with my stuff in the image above, right?

 

[kennah]

Don't get the arctic silver. The stuff that the CM212 comes with is fine.

 

[mkenyon]

Got it.

This is the haul then:

I'll go with the original card since I'll have to wait until next month to pay for it either way.

Thanks!

Oh, also dump the Win 7. You can use it again no problem. Just might need to call into MS.

 

[AJLma]

Skyrim actually benefits quite a bit from CPU.

Skyrim is a CPU limited game that only uses up to 4 cores, it's more likely to be bottlenecked by the CPU than pretty much any other game, making it a poor measure for performance.

Benchmarks for pretty much any other game put AMD CPU's pretty much neck and neck. An FX 6300 or 8350 is completely fine for a gaming rig.

 

[scogoth]

Can somebody explain exactly what the fuck this Litemining is and how does it make AMD cards more expensive?

I mean, are people actually buying these cards at these outrageous prices? :/ How does that work?

Litecoin is a unregulated virtual currency based on cryptographic hashing and is very similar to Bitcoin. AMD's architecture lends its self very well to highly parallel tasks such as cryptographic hashing required to 'mine' coins (validate transactions and earn a reward). Since Bitcoin and Litecoin are so similar other than Litecoins are 'mined' four times faster people mistakenly assume that Litecoins should be 1/4 the value of Bitcoin. Since Bitcoin is around $800 a coin and Litecoin is $20 a coin people are speculating that litecoin will go up in value to $200 a coin. If there is a 10 fold increase in price then a $500 GPU is worth it to earn Litecoins.

 

[HoosTrax]

Can somebody explain exactly what the fuck this Litemining is and how does it make AMD cards more expensive?

I mean, are people actually buying these cards at these outrageous prices? :/ How does that work?

Apparently the architecture of the more recent AMD GPU make them particularly proficient at making ethereal coinage currency units out of nothing (well, other than electricity), which has caused a "run" on their supply. And the value of used ones has skyrocketing as well. I can't think of too many cases where computer hardware has actually gained value instead of depreciating...

Looking at the same thing. This whole 290 drama is getting on my last nerve then I saw the pricing being at $529 plus with the issue of availability, yeah it looks like I'm just gonna go back to team green.

I'm not sure what to make of this ethereal coinage nonsense either, but I figure I might as well take advantage and get a "free" upgrade out of it (basically like leasing a 7970 for free for the summer).

I guess the MSI Lightning GTX780 non-Ti looks like a decent value right now.

 

[mkenyon]

Skyrim is a CPU limited game that only uses up to 4 cores, it's more likely to be bottlenecked by the CPU than pretty much any other game, making it a poor measure for performance.

Benchmarks for pretty much any other game put AMD CPU's pretty much neck and neck. An FX 6300 or 8350 is completely fine for a gaming rig.

Most games use 1-3 cores.

But, here's some more data for you:

Special thing to note on this next one, Civ V is n-threaded, meaning it can use as many threads as you have:

Not really neck and neck. They certainly are in a number of games where CPU doesn't really make a difference, but that's not really a selling point. That's more like "when you don't need a CPU, the badness won't continue to drag you down."

MP games are another situation where you want to have super high IPC. Translating game state is very CPU intensive, and that low stutter-prone IPC on Bulldozer/Vishera hurts.

I guess the MSI Lightning GTX780 non-Ti looks like a decent value right now.

If I were in the market for a 780 right now, it'd be that or the Classy. Both are fantastic, and OC very well.

 

[AJLma]

Most games use 1-3 cores.

But, here's some more data for you:


Special thing to note on this next one, Civ V is n-threaded, meaning it can use as many threads as you have:


Not really neck and neck. They certainly are in a number of games where CPU doesn't really make a difference, but that's not really a selling point.

MP games are another situation where you want to have super high IPC. Translating game state is very CPU intensive, and that low stutter-prone IPC on Bulldozer/Vishera hurts.

The MP point makes sense, and that Crysis 3 beyond 50ms is painful. Though I don't really know what that translates to as far as a noticeable effect on gameplay.

The 8350 still appears to fare well though, especially for the price compared to the top performers. The 6300 series is also missing from these benches and would likely perform similarly.

Unless you're the hardest of the hardcore gamer who's also dropping 500+ on a GPU and have a need to bleed every FPS possible out of every game, I think this point is exaggerated a bit.

 

[Seanspeed]

Litecoin is a unregulated virtual currency based on cryptographic hashing and is very similar to Bitcoin. AMD's architecture lends its self very well to highly parallel tasks such as cryptographic hashing required to 'mine' coins (validate transactions and earn a reward). Since Bitcoin and Litecoin are so similar other than Litecoins are 'mined' four times faster people mistakenly assume that Litecoins should be 1/4 the value of Bitcoin. Since Bitcoin is around $800 a coin and Litecoin is $20 a coin people are speculating that litecoin will go up in value to $200 a coin. If there is a 10 fold increase in price then a $500 GPU is worth it to earn Litecoins.

I have no idea what you just said.

Apparently the architecture of the more recent AMD GPU make them particularly proficient at making ethereal coinage currency units out of nothing (well, other than electricity), which has caused a "run" on their supply. And the value of used ones has skyrocketing as well. I can't think of too many cases where computer hardware has actually gained value instead of depreciating...


I'm not sure what to make of this ethereal coinage nonsense either, but I figure I might as well take advantage and get a "free" upgrade out of it (basically like leasing a 7970 for free for the summer).

I guess the MSI Lightning GTX780 non-Ti looks like a decent value right now.

Yea, don't blame you man.

"I have no idea what's going on but people want to buy my shit at stupid prices so fuck yea!"

Get that 780 man.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Oh, also dump the Win 7. You can use it again no problem. Just might need to call into MS.

Sounds good. Appreciate all the help!

 

[mkenyon]

The MP point makes sense, and that Crysis 3 beyond 50ms is painful. Though I don't really know what that translates to as far as a noticeable effect on gameplay.

The 8350 still appears to fare well though, especially for the price compared to the top performers. The 6300 series is also missing from these benches and would likely perform similarly.

Unless you're the hardest of the hardcore gamer who's also dropping 500+ on a GPU and have a need to bleed every FPS possible out of every game, I think this point is exaggerated a bit.

6300 has the same IPC, so you can pretty much subtract the difference in frequency as a percentage to get similar results.

But the point is that in games where IPC matters a lot, the 8350 trades blows with the baseline i3. It's even outpaced by the i5s and i7s from 5 years ago. It's just not a good option.

Sure, there are lots of people who might not notice the difference, but that doesn't mean that there isn't any.

*edit*

Also what that "Beyond Xms" translates to is noticeable stutter at times.

Sounds good. Appreciate all the help!

I'm only a 12th Man Yell away if you need any more

Go Hawks.

 

[kennah]

The MP point makes sense, and that Crysis 3 beyond 50ms is painful. Though I don't really know what that translates to as far as a noticeable effect on gameplay.

The 8350 still appears to fare well though, especially for the price compared to the top performers. The 6300 series is also missing from these benches and would likely perform similarly.

Unless you're the hardest of the hardcore gamer who's also dropping 500+ on a GPU and have a need to bleed every FPS possible out of every game, I think this point is exaggerated a bit.

The big problem with going for the 8350 is that you are pretty well starting at the top end for your socket... So if you do find that your performance is starting to suffer, you have no where to go. Where with an i3 you could swap it out to an i5 or an i7 for huge gains in performance. AMD just isn't a good long term solution It would be nice if the competition was there, but they're years behind what Intel is doing.

Though it is nice that Intel got two years to focus on efficiency and iGPU rather than having to go for blinding speed.

 

[chaosblade]

The MP point makes sense, and that Crysis 3 beyond 50ms is painful. Though I don't really know what that translates to as far as a noticeable effect on gameplay.

The 8350 still appears to fare well though, especially for the price compared to the top performers. The 6300 series is also missing from these benches and would likely perform similarly.

Unless you're the hardest of the hardcore gamer who's also dropping 500+ on a GPU and have a need to bleed every FPS possible out of every game, I think this point is exaggerated a bit.

The 8350 is $200, almost as much as a 3570K/4670K. There are a lot of cheap AMD motherboards but for something similar to the quality of a good Z77/87 board you're not looking at paying much less for that either.

6300 has a better argument since it costs about as much as an i3. I think between those options it's a toss up. Fake edit: kennah has a point though, at least with an i3 you can move up on the same socket, even with a 6300, moving from 6 to 8 cores on the same architecture isn't going to make as big of a difference as moving from 2(/4) to 4 at much higher clock speeds.

 

[mkenyon]

Some pretty insane deals going on at Steelseries.com right now.

Sensei+Mech Keyboard+Headset+Mousepad combo - $165

Sensei RAW - $42

Sensei - $63

6Gv2 - $70

The 8350 is $200, almost as much as a 3570K/4670K. There are a lot of cheap AMD motherboards but for something similar to the quality of a good Z77/87 board you're not looking at paying much less for that either.

6300 has a better argument since it costs about as much as an i3. I think between those options it's a toss up. Fake edit: kennah has a point though, at least with an i3 you can move up on the same socket, even with a 6300, moving from 6 to 8 cores on the same architecture isn't going to make as big of a difference as moving from 2(/4) to 4 at much higher clock speeds.

Keep in mind that they're not really 6 or 8 core processors. They're essentially tri-core with 6 threads, and quad core with 8 threads.

Also, you end up getting stuck with other things that will be a pain in a year or two from now. PCI-E 2.0 is the big one.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Hey all, looking to upgrade after keeping this aging bastard rig lurching along for some number of years and I wanted to run the before/after by you all to see if you had any suggestions. Bear in mind that the budget is trying to reach as close to $800 as possible and I think I did pretty well.

OLD/current rig:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @ 2.33GHz
GPU: EVGA GTX 460 v2
RAM: 8.00 GB Dual-Channel DDR2 @ 399MHz (6-6-6-18)
Motherboard: PEGATRON CORPORATION Benicia
HDD: 625GB Western Digital WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2
Power Supply: Some decade old 660w thing

Potential new rig:

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core
Motherboard: Biostar Hi-Fi Z87W ATX LGA1150
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 660 2GB
Case: NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower
Power Supply: Antec 550W ATX12V
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)
Total: $848.57

Thoughts? I plan to overclock at a later date which is why I picked up the i5k and will pick up an aftermarket cooler when the time comes.

 

[RedSwirl]

Okay just powered on my new shit.

Motherboard: Asus Z-87 Plus
CPU - i5-4670k
Chasis - NZXT Phantom Full Tower

When I set this thing up and plugged up all the fans that came with the case I ended up with two extra fan cables for which I couldn't find any plugs. I decided to just leave them out. Anybody else with this chasis figure out what they're for?

Also, I had no damn idea graphical BIOS had been invented!

 

[HoosTrax]

Okay just powered on my new shit.

Motherboard: Asus Z-87 Plus
CPU - i5-4670k
Chasis - NZXT Phantom Full Tower

When I set this thing up and plugged up all the fans that came with the case I ended up with two extra fan cables for which I couldn't find any plugs. I decided to just leave them out. Anybody else with this chasis figure out what they're for?

Also, I had no damn idea graphical BIOS had been invented!

Graphical BIOS is great, especially the kind you can navigate with a mouse. I don't really miss the days of the old-school blue AwardBIOS.

It's quite possible for a motherboard not to have enough fan headers for all of the fans in a case. Either get a fan controller or a fan power splitter cable.

 

[Creamium]

Performance-wise they are similar, 770 might have a slight edge but it will depend on the game.

Like I said though, I don't know how prices are there, but AMD cards are currently overpriced in NA due to mining, and I'd be surprised if that didn't extend to other places too. €315 sounds a little high to me, and a quick search says that 770s should run less than €300. I don't know how consistent prices are through Europe though.

Not sure exactly how prices are where you are, but that sounds high for a 280X. Can you not get a GTX 770 for less?

I'd think you could go cheaper on the RAM too. Do you really need 16GB?

Based on your comments and what others have said, I've made some adjustments. Went from 16 to 8 gb RAM and picked a cheaper motherboard:

Case: Corsair Carbide 200R (€55)
Power Supply: Corsair Gaming Series 600W (GS600) (€83)
SSD: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB (For OS, €125)
HDD: Western Digital 2TB (3.5" - IntelliPower - 64MB - WD20EZRX) (general storage, €58)
Processor: Intel Core i5-4670 (€200)
Motherboard: Asus B85-Plus (€90)
RAM: Corsair 8GB DDR3 Vengeance LP (1600Mhz - 1x8GB - CL10) (€85)
Video card: Asus Radeon R9 280X DirectCU II TOP (€315) OR R9 290?

I've also been recommended the R9 290, which'll be my choice now if available. This seems like a great card performance/price-wise. Any more comments are welcome, but I'm guessing I'm nearly done.

 

[Hironobu Sakaguchi]

went to a friend to assemble my parts, went to many misfortune and small accidents while working for +3hrs, in the end the PSU isn't compatible with the mobo, or let's say i need an extra cable that's not included with neither the mobo or PSU

the is the slots, already covered one of them, now i need an extra cable for the second one:

searched everywhere, didn't found it
tomorrow i've to check 3 computer supplies suppliers in the area, it they dont have it, i've to order it online T_T

msi z87mpower
hx850w

this is the required cable:

i think it's called EPS cable, and it has 4 pins not 3 like the picture, and much longer

 

[Addnan]

You don't need 2. 1 is enough.

 

[CreepingFear]

You don't need 2. 1 is enough.

What he said. 2 is for extreme overclocks. It's not really needed.

 

[mkenyon]

Hey all, looking to upgrade after keeping this aging bastard rig lurching along for some number of years and I wanted to run the before/after by you all to see if you had any suggestions. Bear in mind that the budget is trying to reach as close to $800 as possible and I think I did pretty well.

OLD/current rig:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @ 2.33GHz
GPU: EVGA GTX 460 v2
RAM: 8.00 GB Dual-Channel DDR2 @ 399MHz (6-6-6-18)
Motherboard: PEGATRON CORPORATION Benicia
HDD: 625GB Western Digital WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2
Power Supply: Some decade old 660w thing

Potential new rig:

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core
Motherboard: Biostar Hi-Fi Z87W ATX LGA1150
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 660 2GB
Case: NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower
Power Supply: Antec 550W ATX12V
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)
Total: $848.57

Thoughts? I plan to overclock at a later date which is why I picked up the i5k and will pick up an aftermarket cooler when the time comes.

Super solid. That'll be a great foundation for future upgrades too. Just plop in a new GPU and you're good to go.

If you don't need a ton of storage space, might I suggest swapping out the HDD for an SSD?

Last suggestion is that you can get Win 7/Win 8 keys on reddit.com/r/softwareswap for $20-40.

 

[Pjsprojects]

You don't need 2. 1 is enough.

I used one of those cables and a direct cable with that correct plug for my graphics card because it would not run with just one plugged in.

 

[kennah]

I used one of those cables and a direct cable with that correct plug for my graphics card because it would not run with just one plugged in.

Check your manual for which of the two power plugs is required and which is optional.

 

[Hironobu Sakaguchi]

You don't need 2. 1 is enough.

What he said. 2 is for extreme overclocks. It's not really needed.

thats what i heard before purchasing an your answers are just the same

but i didnt try it and i dont want to sacrifice the chance unless nothing would happen if i try that
whats the worst case scenario out here if i try it as it is now??

I used one of those cables and a direct cable with that correct plug for my graphics card because it would not run with just one plugged in.

what he said , and what my friend told me, but i didnt try that
and for sure i'm noob enough to understand what the manual says

so?

 

[kennah]

thats what i heard before purchasing an your answers are just the same

but i didnt try it and i dont want to sacrifice the chance unless nothing would happen if i try that
whats the worst case scenario out here if i try it as it is now??


what he said , and what my friend told me, but i didnt try that
and for sure i'm noob enough to understand what the manual says

so?

Worst case if you try turning it on as is is nothing will happen. You can't fry it unless you tried really hard to jam stuff in where it doesn't fit.

in fact, you're at a larger risk of frying something if you start plugging in those adaptors from one thing to another thing...

Give me a few mins, I'll check your motherboard manual.

(But really, every noob should read a motherboard manual from beginning to end. It explains a lot of stuff, google things you don't understand... this is kinda how learning works...)

 

[mkenyon]

went to a friend to assemble my parts, went to many misfortune and small accidents while working for +3hrs, in the end the PSU isn't compatible with the mobo, or let's say i need an extra cable that's not included with neither the mobo or PSU

As others noted, you do not need to plug both in. That's intended for people who run more than 1.5V through their processor while dumping LN2 in a pot that is attached to the bare die.

Just use one.

 

[NoRéN]

Microcenter has the i7 4770k for $250.

Microcenter isn't available everywhere and I can confirm that while the California store shows out of stock online, it's in stock in stores.

I was able to get this pricematched at Staples when MC had it for $200 before thanksgiving. However, as with all pricematches it's strictly YMMV.

Don't be an asshole if you can't get a pricematch. Don't bitch, whine, threaten to make complaints, etc.

Open up a chat with staples and politely ask to see if they can pricematch. Here are the links you will be asked for.

Microcenter Link

Staples link

Good luck!

 

[kennah]

Checked the manual. Doesn't specify one over the other. Just plug it into the one labelled 2 and try to boot up.

 

[NoRéN]

For those with 1155 motherboards looking to upgrade, the i7 3770k is also available for $250 at microcenter

i7 3770K 3.5GHz Socket LGA 1155

 

[HoosTrax]

Worst case if you try turning it on as is is nothing will happen. You can't fry it unless you tried really hard to jam stuff in where it doesn't fit.

I'm surprised that we don't hear more stories about people trying to jam EPS12V into PCIe power, or vice versa.

 

[Hironobu Sakaguchi]

Checked the manual. Doesn't specify one over the other. Just plug it into the one labelled 2 and try to boot up.

if i'm not mistaking, my friend plug it into the first port, the one on the left, should i change it to the right which is supposed to be the second one?

 

[RedSwirl]

Graphical BIOS is great, especially the kind you can navigate with a mouse. I don't really miss the days of the old-school blue AwardBIOS.

It's quite possible for a motherboard not to have enough fan headers for all of the fans in a case. Either get a fan controller or a fan power splitter cable.

The case has fan controls on it. But it's not gonna be a problem if I just leave those two things unplugged is it? I already have like four of the fans plugged in.

 

[CreepingFear]

Ryan Shrout ‏@ryanshrout 18m
This ASUS 290X with the DirectCU II cooler is going to impress you guys. Makes the Hawaii GPU a totally different beast.

.

 

[Hironobu Sakaguchi]

clear pics to my current build just in case:

 

[mkenyon]

if i'm not mistaking, my friend plug it into the first port, the one on the left, should i change it to the right which is supposed to be the second one?

Yeah, you just want it on the left (assuming that you are looking at it with the power plugs on top). It's pretty clearly listed as JPWR2, whereas the other is JPWR3. You want it in JPWR2, and you do not need the other one even in the least bit.

*edit*

Yeah, you're golden. That's all you need.

.

The moment I can find a 290 or 290x at a decent price, I might bite.

 

[kharma45]

.

As I expected.

290 will be the real gem.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

As I expected.

290 will be the real gem.

At only $799, thanks litecoin!

 

[diaspora]

.

Will it be the size of my arm?

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

On the Corsair AX 860, is there supposed to be a led light that lits up so I can see the fan? It's not coming on. Is there a switch or anything?