Is it 20 nm?
Edit: Woohoo! This just came in! Can't wait to try it out! So is Watch Dogs worth it or should I just sell it?
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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 2. Read OP, your 2500K will run Witcher 3. MX100s! 970!
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Is it 20 nm?
Edit: Woohoo! This just came in! Can't wait to try it out! So is Watch Dogs worth it or should I just sell it?
Seems like that's a pretty good option, too, and comparable specs.
But which one do I get? That's a pretty wide price range. Should I look at how many fans they have? What difference does the manufacturer make?
NekoToshiro
Member
Thats actually a great idea. I'll have to contact them and ask them
I'm a moron its AM2 not AM2+. It will be hard to find one that would allow upgrades like i would like. Sorry about that!
Is this a good deal?
£240 delivered.
AMD FX-9590 Black Edition Octa Core CPU Socket (AM3+, 4.7GHz, 16MB, 220W, FD9590FHHKWOF, Turbo Core 3.0 Technology)
£240 delivered.
AMD FX-9590 Black Edition Octa Core CPU Socket (AM3+, 4.7GHz, 16MB, 220W, FD9590FHHKWOF, Turbo Core 3.0 Technology)
It's an awful chip at that price. Go 4670K, 4690K, 4770K or 4790K.
I'm pretty skeptical of that website, as they have a lot of data that flies in the face of other much more reputable websites. Crysis 3, for example:
compared to theirs:
They also rely on poor metrics which aren't very great for measuring CPU performance.
The other thing to keep in mind is that in that BF4 bench, it does not account for multiplayer, which will put an extra burden on IPC when translating game state, again favoring the Intel procs. It also compares them at their stock speeds, and where a 15-25% boost in performance should be expected compared to the 3.4 GHz stock clock, a 12% boost in frequency is about what you should expect with an 8350.
http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/642/bench/CPU_03.png
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/original/2013/02/Crysis-3-Test-CPUs-VH-720p.png
Minimum FPS will be similar to 99th percentile. I think more than anything it shows the CPU is very dependent on the specific setup/circumstances. The 4770K is a much more reliable choice at the same price point.
The Teachinator
Banned
Just grabbed mine at Microcenter in Yonkers, NY. They will sell them but weren't really aware that they had them.
Or poor methodology
You can get some pretty inconsistently strange numbers by only running a test once or twice without compiling an average set of data, and I have a distinct feeling that's what's going on at GameGPU.
jimbosimbo43
Neo Member
I'm upgrading my PC soon with a new Processor, Graphics card and Mobo.
Is there a decent place to sell used PC parts in the UK? Has anyone had experience using Ebay for such things? I always hear horror stories about peoples experiences with Ebay.
Parts in question (all have 2 years of use) :
I5 2500k CPU
Asus P8Z77-V Motherboard
Sapphire Radeon 3GB 7950 OC Graphics card
Not to worried about getting loads of money for them, just something towards my new parts would help greatly!!
Is there a decent place to sell used PC parts in the UK? Has anyone had experience using Ebay for such things? I always hear horror stories about peoples experiences with Ebay.
Parts in question (all have 2 years of use) :
I5 2500k CPU
Asus P8Z77-V Motherboard
Sapphire Radeon 3GB 7950 OC Graphics card
Not to worried about getting loads of money for them, just something towards my new parts would help greatly!!
Or poor methodology
You can get some pretty inconsistently strange numbers by only running a test once or twice without compiling an average set of data, and I have a distinct feeling that's what's going on at GameGPU.
When you've got three sites giving similar results, though, it suggests something that goes beyond testing methodology.
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?usa...2&vpn=R9270ACNFC&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1215
R9 270 for sub 750Ti prices. This will destroy the 750Ti and outperform the 265 by a significant margin.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Hey guys, would a cooler master extreme power 500 watt supply be good for a core i3 4310, Gigabyte R9 270x and 4 gb ram system?
The PCGamesHardware link is broken, but the Techspot article is still pretty different with a 13% swing in relative performance between the 2600/3770 (both are within 5% of each other) and the 8350.
Two out of a large number of websites, one of them being TechReport that has the absolute best testing metholodogy that has pushed forward new standards? Ehhhhhhhhhh......
I sold my 5770 through eBay, was a good experience for me.
Of course, it'll handle them with no problem
I wonder how much I can get for my HD 5970...
Subtervotion
Member
So basically an i5 and i7 are more than enough to run a game, skype, and fraps(or any recording software) smooth?
jimbosimbo43
Neo Member
Depends on what game and what display settings, but generally, yes.
Oh and a decent graphics card helps take away some of the load of the processor.
For FRAPS/DXtory, some of that is going to be dependent upon your HDD setup. With a single 7200 RPM drive, you are going to have some slowdowns. I'd highly suggest a RAID array if you want to record uncompressed footage. If not, then there's NVIDIA Shadowplay which uses an onboard H.264 chip to encode on the fly without much of a performance hit at all.
jimbosimbo43
Neo Member
And how did you package it? I don't have the original packaging unfortunately ..
Subtervotion
Member
I have AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to all these specifics. Anywhere I can read up on this or can you inform me?
Whoa, this is a really good deal. This might be a dumb question, but will I miss out on support, etc. if I import this into Canada?
EDIT: Derp, there's no option for a Canadian billing address
To expand further on this, I don't know what kind of performance you require out of your hardware, but I'll give you my experience of doing the above.
I was responsible for recording my team's Tribes: Ascend matches. It's based on UE3, which means high IPC = more performance, but that also means when the processor is strained doing something else (such as encoding), then performance drops to a staggering level.
I don't have decent numbers while actually benchmarking (and I should one of these days - it's an interesting subject), on my 2x1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 RAID0 array, I would go from a solid 120 FPS down to 70s-90s while recording. If I did streaming, it was more in the 50-70 range. This was with a 2500K @ 5.0 GHz. Towards the end, I started to use a Black Magic Intensity Pro to capture it and use the onboard encoding, and with that running, I would notice an ever so slight decrease in performance, but not enough to matter.
Our captain, Kudochop, was doing the same as well for a number of matches. We eventually settled on his current setup, which is using an Avermedia GamerHD card to capture which then sends it off to a secondary PC that does the recording/streaming. The performance loss with this is essentially zero. The streaming system will still benefit from a highly threaded processor with high IPC, but he was able to stream with pretty decent quality using an old AMD Phenom II X4 970. In terms of recording for a secondary dedicated PC, the processor will only matter looking at encoding times for the footage through Vegas/Premiere. It's also worth noting that for such a PC, you don't even need a solid GPU, as all of that stuff is entirely on the proc.
I helped him upgrade the whole system just recently, and it's running an i7 2600 with a cheapo general workstation GPU.
*edit*
And also, here's the info on Shadowplay: http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience/shadowplay
What are you upgrading to? That's still pretty high end parts.
Pjsprojects
Member
A lot of people on here are Intel fans, which is understandable. However surly all the new games will be designed with eight cores in mind. If this is the case then the AMD stuff should run better than trying to run all the last gen engines.
The bad part of the 9590 is the amount of power it uses! You need a very good motherboard to prevent it burning out.Also think cooling and then more cooling.
Price is good but it's twice the price of FX-8350 Black.
Subtervotion
Member
Thanks for the info. I'll write up my specific hardware soon enough. That way everyone will know where I'm starting from.
By the time eight cores becomes a requirement there will be better eight core cpus out for cheap.
Slow eight does not beat fast four in computers or cars.
Edit - also you should always buy for 'now' and upgrade when things get slow in the future. Way better than gambling...
jimbosimbo43
Neo Member
Going to get ..
Intel I7 4790K
Corsair RM 650W Fully Modular Gold PSU to replace my current noisy one.
Asus MAXIMUS VII RANGER Z97 - Had to buy this as my current is socket 1155
8 Gig more Corsair Vengeance RAM .. bringing me to 16 total
Corsair Hydro Series H100i for cooling
And the graphics card, im debating keeping ... but if i could sell it for £150 or so, id be tempted to upgrade. Or maybe crossfire 2 of them? would the performance increase be worth it?
YuriLowell
Member
Crossfire is nothing but a huge pain in the ass. Don't do it.
The first mistake in this thread is to assume people are fans of anything. Most of the people in here who recommend hardware are simply fans of performance, wherever it might come from. I honestly have a slight bias in favor of AMD.
However, buying a processor based on projected possible future performance is pretty silly. On top of that, the 8350 isn't an 8 core chip like the ones in the consoles. In terms of how it handles loads, it something in between a 4 Core/8 Thread processor and a dedicated 8 core processor. It does have 8 physical cores, but each pair of 2 cores shares L2 cache.
To blow your mind, the most efficient PC Game in terms of using all available CPU threads is Civ V. Here's how that looks:
Given that the 8350 generally outperforms the i5s when it comes to n-threaded tasks like encoding or compressing, you can see how it's a lot more complicated than "well 8 core consoles so 8 core proc = better".
I'd also direct you to this post for lots more on the same subject:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=105518879&postcount=9470
Buy the best single GPU you can afford. Crossfire and SLI should only be used to achieve performance that is otherwise impossible with a single GPU.
Those 4790s are so tempting. 4.0 stock. I almost had my friend convinced that he needed one but he's replacing his shitty car first.
Neither did I. I just stuck it in a generic box, anti-static bag for it and padded the hell out of the box.
SHADES
Member
Hmmm, might be interested in the GPU, are the sapphire warranties transferable?
Edit* crossfire 2 of them if I were you, think you could pick up another new off ebay for around £150.
With a copy of the original receipt, yes.
jimbosimbo43
Neo Member
Looks like it only had a 2 yr warrantee anyway so not sure it would matter?
No. It's far too coarse with dozens of datapoints averaged into one. The "microstuttering"* problem with multi GPU was probably not discovered for so long because most people trusted the minimum FPS.
When it comes to raw performance the FX8350 does sometimes get ahead of the i7s (integer performance I think), but rarely by much. Many gaming benchmarks run the game with as little GPU load as possible which makes sense when you want to find the most powerful CPU, but not when you want to find the best gaming CPU. The benches from The Tech Report show a similar average frame rate for i7 and FX, but when the game chugs it is way worse on the FX. I can't say for sure, but they said it happened when the shot exploding barrels so it sounds to me like one thread got very demanding and because only one core can work on it the game slowed down.
The higher immunity to sudden dips is why I'd always chose Intel over AMD for gaming.
*Poor name in my opinion.
SHADES
Member
Ok thanks, and there was me dismissing loads of non EVGA,GIGABYTE,MSI,ASUS cards on ebay.
Eh, you can't count on getting the right copy of the receipt from an ebay seller. I'd be wary of that.
This.
You might not notice a difference of 5 fps in a game, and I can see why someone would make an argument for an FX processor with AVG/Min in mind. But you do notice when things stop working for part of a second, which is exactly what happens. This is always compounded in multiplayer games too.
Whoa, this is a really good deal. This might be a dumb question, but will I miss out on support, etc. if I import this into Canada?
EDIT: Derp, there's no option for a Canadian billing address
Canadian version is $175 CAD. Don't know how that compares to other cards in Canadia.
http://www.ncix.com/detail/xfx-radeon-r9-270-core-1d-94992-1215.htm
I didn't say it was equivalent. I said it'd be close. Microstuttering isn't generally associated with CPUs, so the difference between minimum FPS and 99th percentile shouldn't be a whole lot. I'm not arguing that the 8350 is a better choice than a 4770K. It's not. I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be consistently comparable to a single Intel product. Rather, it will do better or worse depending on how well the game uses all the cores available to it.
SHADES
Member
Yeah I'm a bit wary buying 2nd hand to begin with tbh, haven't had the best of luck with buying 2nd hand PC anything.
Buy cheap, buy twice! My old grandad used to say.
VRM either getting too hot, memory clocked too high, or not enough volts.
Microstuttering is kind of a confusing term that has been loosely applied to "things don't look quite right". In that sense, the easiest way for us to look at that aggregate outside of horribly messy line graphs is counting "time spent over X". This is essentially when the processor is having a hard time with a specific task and the game chugs.
Maybe given the fact that I prefer 120Hz panels with 8.3ms frametimes makes me a bit more sensitive to these kinds of drops. But, I've done similar experiments with friends at LANs I host, some of which had 8150s/8350s. One friend, after he played a bit on a 3570K with the same GPU, went out the next day to buy parts so we could upgrade him then and there.
This is the data that isn't really being captured by min/max. Even that lowest # is still being averaged out with a 30+ other frames to skew the figure.
Similar, but a smaller gap in price. Can't afford an i7.
I dunno man. I was thinking maybe I should get the 4670K + Z97 and then if I lose out in the silicon lottery I flip it when Broadwell comes out. Or just get DC and forget about it. I worry too much about price
erformance, haha.Price
Yeah, you're right guys. Thanks. At least being on Z97 will give me some flexibility as well.
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