Jacksinthe
Banned
They also collect our passports here and don't give them back until we leave.
...
What the FUCK?
That's some Locked Up Abroad shit right there.
...
What the FUCK?
That's some Locked Up Abroad shit right there.
I took a trip to North Korea. (Pic heavy)
- Thread starter SuperBanana
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Golden_Pigeon
Banned
I don't see a difference between a death camp and bombing a city to ashes.
CountAntonius
Member
Fantastic post OP. Thank you for the images and insights.
Yeah, that's pretty funny.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
LOL. What is the risk that the ideology of NK would spray ? They are nothing but a ghost from the cold war.
Anyway i never said that we shouldn't judge North Korea, it's an horrible regime and i hope the country will be free of it. I also hope that the world will eventually be free of western domination. Both views are not antagonist.
Fancy Clown
Member
Are you for real?
scotcheggz
Member
OK a few people are giving OP stick for 'empowering' the regime with tourism and it is really overblown. Many ROK companies work in the north and have factories and assembly lines for electrical products in the north, employing DPRK workers, but you don't accuse everyone with a Samsung TV, or one of those sweet Korean monitors etc. of empowering the Kim regime. How about those companies that employ there?
The tourism generates income for the regime, you have to use USD (correct me if this has changed now, but I doubt it, USD is very much in demand) to buy goods there as a tourist and when you buy the package tour, if you check out the itemization you'll see that there are some payments for administration guff which are basically just payments made to the governing bodies. That's said though, it's trivial and as long as the tourist understands that what they're seeing is a facade (which I would wager many do, perhaps not OP) then it's not really that different than sitting on your ass and turning a blind eye to the atrocities because cheap 1440p monitors! it's a bit reactionary, especially given the lack of knowledge of the situation displayed by most of the worst offenders.
LostDonkey
Member
What a fascinating read. Thanks for taking the time to share. Glad you enjoyed your trip and learned something new about the world we live in.
Da-Kid
Member
Well, didn't America commit mass genocide against Native Americans,and enslave/kill blacks for hundreds of years? Hell, black people are still facing injustice today. But then we act like what the Nazi's did was just so unspeakable and evil... which it was.
Wrongs don't make rights but trying to seem like your better for doing the same stuff certainly will make you look worse.
killertofu
Member
I've always wanted to visit but I feel weird because I'm asian. Is that weird?
stufte
Member
Sins of the father: the post.
It's like we can't have a conversation about something happening TODAY without someone saying "but but but 200 years ago bad things happened". Like no shit, but we're talking about what is current, what people alive TODAY are experiencing. History is rough, but jesus, stop trying to hand-wave what NK is doing currently.
You can check my post history here, buddy. I have spoken about native americans and african americans within the last few days.
Or are you speaking of the great gaf hivemind scarecrow?
Da-Kid
Member
The sins of the father are still happening today. Please tell me why black people, my people are being unlawfully killed by our own protectors, falsely accused, profiled, and oppressed. This country loves to act like the same shit 200 years ago isn't still happening. No one is hand waving North Korea.
So you can't criticize other countries or groups if your own history isn't 100% clean? Good luck finding a single one capable of claiming that.
There are dozens of threads every month around the issues involving native Americans and black people here on GAF too so I don't know what is your point.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I see you're literally new to the board, but I can assure you we discuss the murder of black citizens on here quite a bit.
exmachina64
Banned
FFS, it's been said in the thread that you have to use euros when you go to NK and the OP has explained that he understands that it's a facade well enough.
stufte
Member
Except you are. Your whataboutism posts you're making are trying to deflect away from NK criticism and you're derailing the thread.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It's not like people aren't calling out the US on stuff like that. This line of argument is a disservice to us black folk and the citizens of North Korea.
Da-Kid
Member
I never said that, my point is maybe if countries and their people would stop trying to pretend they're morally better than everyone else we could find at least a little common ground. Every country has blood on their hands, stop trying to point out who's hands are more bloody.
stufte
Member
I feel pretty confident in saying that the current USA is 1000x more moral than NK is. It's not even a question.
Even if the US was a carbon copy of North Korea, that wouldn't make it unfair to harshly condemn the North Korean regimen. What's the actual point of deflecting criticism with whataboutism?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Unspoiled your drive-by.
The world has lots of problems and there is a lot of injustice. There are no countries that can claim not to have problems or have committed atrocities. Either that means we should have a more nuanced discussion where we recognize that there are degrees of problems and that the expectations for society improve over time, meaning that something that was bad 100 years ago would be considered completely unacceptable today. We should also be able to see that the Holocaust, North Korea's death camps, and the slaughter of people by ISIS are more ghastly than some other examples.
The US has done a lot of terrible things. Even if we just take the last 75 years you have the Japanese internment, Tuskegee syphilis trials, massacres in Vietnam, interventions in South America, oppression and investigation of minorities, and more issues. As bad as those are, and they are obviously bad, they are not at the same level of North Korea.
What common ground can you find with the North Korean leadership? If the point is that their people are not to be blamed then I certainly agree. The leadership has been absolutely terrible in North Korea for 60 years, so I don't think suddenly recognizing that we're flawed as well, which I'm sure Obama realizes, will magically lead to peace with Kim Jong Un.
Da-Kid
Member
Oh I know, I've been lurking for years.
What NK is doing is evil and absolutely detestable. But I'm not hand waving their actions or rulership.
Well I know, I was just saying.
stufte
Member
Right. But you ARE saying that the US is just as bad and because of that we shouldn't criticize.
What a weird thing to get fixated on, not to mention the fact that there is no one 'black market' where one currency is used. Many reports in NK show that USD is used in addition to the Wan, so it could just be used for the one area tourists are going to. lol
In fact this whole thread is this weird bizzaro land where inane comments go unchecked due to the sheer quantity of absurdity and stupidity presented by members in this thread.
Highly, highly debatable. What is the current US? Does the Iraq war count as the current US?
The Iraq war started with either falsified information, or was a preemptive invasion of a sovereign nation, both scenarios are reprehensible, resulted in an estimated 500,000 to a million casualties as a result of starting that conflict, which is still ongoing, is far worse than anything NK has done in the last 15 years.
And that's not even mentioning the consistent recent examples of institutionalized racism, police shootings, the prison industry with more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined, etc, etc.
Not saying we shouldn't criticize NKs human rights record and nuclear program, but I don't think one can confidently say the US is more moral than NK, much less 1000x more.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Thank you.
It's fucking insane that shit still happens. People act like we are slaves to our countries history and citizens of one country can't discuss something happening in another as if we are tainted by that history. Stop comparing atrocities like fucking trading cards to see who is higher on the pedestal of morality and judgment.
For fucks sake. Have some critical thought before you shit post
I understand your point that "only pointing fingers and trying to get the moral high ground" is not productive, but you came at it the wrong way and with North Korea of all places.
Da-Kid
Member
Fair enough.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
Comparing current US to NK is silly though I guess you could campare NK now to Cold War SK backed by the US in which was in many ways more fucked up than NK at the time as US was essentially helping a military dictatorship including the slaughter of SK citizens. Those events was part of the basis I believe for much of the propaganda NK produce against Sk/US relations though now edited to silly amount By NK.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
It's not even October for fucks sake. Why is pumpkin fucking invading other months like the Christmas season. Keep that gourd to yourself. Ugh
But seriously, hopefully you can see what we mean. That comparison road is a dead end for any discussion.
stufte
Member
I'm more of a peppermint mocha man, TBH.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
who said anything about "bombing a city to ashes"?
Are you talking about war? Are you talking about the US anti-terror efforts?
If you want to have a discussion, stop hiding behind generalities.
Heaven Shard
Banned
Such heart-breaking. Hitchens said the most religious country is NK.
Da-Kid
Member
Who cares its way too good to pass up when it's available.
Fine, but you're the only exception.
IfritTower
Neo Member
Even in the best case scenario that OP saw the "real" country and not state-sponsored theatrics, and even if their patronage didn't contribute to the government, the whole basis of the trip is deeply uncomfortable. Like, even if they did catch a glimpse of the actual conditions for everyday people, it would still be a trip based on suffering-based tourism. No matter the words about "gaining insight" and ""forming an opinion for myself," spending time and money in order to gawk at the misfortune of others when you can safely return home rubs me incredibly wrong. Like these are real people, and in addition to their daily struggles, they have to be objectified and pitied by tourists? Reminds me of people taking their facebook profile pics with children in poor African villages, just an intensely uncomfortable reminder of privilege.
Wow, to get same pictures like that, it would be like on a train through amusement park. Just going down a path with everything staged.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I'd visit North Korea. Visiting atrocities up close does wonder for perspective and insight.
Man this thread is too funny.
I appreciate the post OP, it was (morbidly) funny to read and I enjoyed the pictures. Don't know why y'all are hating though, OP acknowledges the horror of it all but you cannot deny the novelty- say in iron curtain days you could take a trip to the USSR, provided full protection and guarantee of safety. You have heard this place is mysterious, isolationist and blocked from the public eye. Quenching the thirst of curiosity is what many a man would sign up for.
Sure we recognize the evil of the state, but the idea of venturing into the unknown, to witness only few outside have, to have a first-person detailed account of your findings- that call of knowledge and fulfillment to curiosity is a one in a lifetime experience. To actually go into the heart of evil and look it in the eye- I know what I would do, provided that I indeed am promised safety and protection.
I appreciate the post OP, it was (morbidly) funny to read and I enjoyed the pictures. Don't know why y'all are hating though, OP acknowledges the horror of it all but you cannot deny the novelty- say in iron curtain days you could take a trip to the USSR, provided full protection and guarantee of safety. You have heard this place is mysterious, isolationist and blocked from the public eye. Quenching the thirst of curiosity is what many a man would sign up for.
Sure we recognize the evil of the state, but the idea of venturing into the unknown, to witness only few outside have, to have a first-person detailed account of your findings- that call of knowledge and fulfillment to curiosity is a one in a lifetime experience. To actually go into the heart of evil and look it in the eye- I know what I would do, provided that I indeed am promised safety and protection.
Well this is definitely an interesting read, but sounds like it is a totally scripted trip. Btw, whose this cute guy in the pic? :3
Lionel Richie
Member
Fantastic thread OP, thanks for sharing your experience.
Have you visited any atrocities before?
Necromanti
Member
Agreed. Just look at the results of colonialism, the "War on Terror", or the Crusades, for example. Everyone's doing it. We might as well just accept it and look the other way.
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