I was always pretty hostile to people who committed suicide. Then I read this story.

Status
Not open for further replies.
TL4E said:
The only people who understand this are either a) the dysthymic "generally in a low mood" types, or b) those who have decent lives but are intellectually enlightened on this matter. Regrettably, this means the majority discourage suicide under just about all circumstances.

I'll posit a situation for anti-suicide gaf:

say you have no long-term responsibilities to tend to (e.g. kids, financial duties, etc.), yet you experience no happiness in life and it is overwhelmingly unlikely that this can change within any bearable time-frame. The net sorrows far outweigh the net joys of life. How can you possibly deny one the right to suicide, barring religious reasons?
Click to expand...

This is a good question. My examples of being homeless or completely alone were too extreme. This scenario is a good example.
 
Wow...

Okay, for starters.. I truly sympathize with the immense suffering that drove this damaged life to suicide. Even more so, I pray that his weaken soul can find peace in the afterlife. With that said, please don't use this preventable tragedy as a way to justify any form of suicide (especially in this sistutation).


Probably the most upsetting aspect of Zeller's suicide note, is that he selected the *Darkness/Secrets* over *Surviving*. Even in the last moments of his life, he refused to truly speak out about past horrors, so much so that he continued to hide the identity of the individual who violated him 23 years later. I guess this was based off the tainted trust issues and the worries of ridicule from outsiders. Although, not to sound harsh, but who gives a fuck about the opinions of others when your dead.

Such a young, brilliant life.. didn't have to end on such a empty note. And if anything, hopefully Zeller's lost, will help us all understand on how much we need each other (please don't give up)..
 
ZephyrFate said:
Meditation is a damn good solution, actually. Helps a lot of other people around the world.

Edit: If you have a chemical imbalance that is untreatable, I'm not judging you. Every other reason, though? I'm pretty sure some society in this world has figured out a viable solution. And it's not always meds.
Click to expand...

Developed a solution?

This isn't some math equation we're talking about, it's human emotion and stress.

Have you known someone who was raped or molested? Pills don't magically cure trauma like that. Therapy can help but it won't necessarily stop the nightmares or awful memories of said event.

Hell, have you known someone who was at their wits end with shit that was going on around them. And they literally had no power to change anything?

My mom told me about her aunt that committed suicide. She was a gimp, mother of 4 boys and had an abusive husband (this was back in the 50s btw). One day while they were over, she walked back into her room and shot herself. My mom never judged her as selfish, but a troubled woman whose pain and demons she'd never understand.

Maybe you should realize that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about when you decide that any sort of trauma can be overcome, and that those who commit suicide are just unaware of a "solution" that others have found. A lot of the time people just carry their demons around and force others to endure their depression and anger. Some people get help from therapy or pills. Other people can't stand the idea of either bearing that pain/trauma for as long as they live, or can't stand the idea of being a fucking zombie thanks to the miracle of pills.
 
INPAQ said:
Wow...

Okay, for starters.. I truly sympathize with the immense suffering that drove this damaged life to suicide. Even more so, I pray that his weaken soul can find peace in the afterlife. With that said, please don't use this preventable tragedy as a way to justify any form of suicide (especially in this sistutation).


Probably the most upsetting aspect of Zeller's suicide note, is that he selected the *Darkness/Secrets* over *Surviving*. Even in the last moments of his life, he refused to truly speak out about past horrors, so much so that he continued to hide the identity of the individual who violated him 23 years later. I guess this was based off the tainted trust issues and the worries of ridicule from outsiders. Although, not to sound harsh, but who gives a fuck about the opinions of others when your dead.

Such a young, brilliant life.. didn't have to end on such a empty note. And if anything, hopefully Zeller's lost, will help us all understand on how much we need each other (please don't give up)..
Click to expand...

So you believe that his soul might never find peace and he might suffer through the kind of nightmarish existence he had in life forever? Everlasting torment? That's terrible. It's a good thing there's no such thing as an aferlife.
 
the whole 'i've managed to get through my life's difficulties without killing myself, therefore anyone who kills himself is not as brave or as strong as i am' line is just dense beyond belief -- i wonder how closely it correlates with libertarian political views

edit: and the idea that suicides are doomed to eternal torment is one of the more immoral and disgusting ideas in the history of widely-believed ideas
 
Trent Strong said:
So you believe that his soul might never find peace and he might suffer through the kind of nightmarish existence he had in life forever? Everlasting torment? That's terrible. It's a good thing there's no such thing as an aferlife.
Click to expand...
ya eternal afterlife is a freaky thought, but i think that time heals all wounds

except for the wound of existing in eternal afterlife itself. that could drive you fucking crazy for ever.
 
ZephyrFate said:
Way to ignore everything I've said. GOOD ON YOU!

*high fives*

Suicide Defense Force is probably the most entertaining on GAF at the moment.
Click to expand...

And idiots like you are just tragic.
 
I don't really understand all the stuff about the "darkness" coming into his relationships / sex.
I mean, i get that it's related to him being molested as a child, but what does it mean?

I wish he had elaborated on that. A few examples (like the quote from his dad about Muslims and terrorists) would have been helpful.
 
TL4E said:
Sorry, 0 proof for this unless your source includes dubious antidepressant commercials from the likes of Eli Lilly etc.
Click to expand...
Medical expert from all over the world, including those working for not-for-profit companies and social health care programs sign onto that. It's as dubious as "gay people didn't choose to be gay", ie. not at all. There are people who are live genuinely happy lives, where moment-to-moment they find so much to be thankful for and enjoy but just because of the way they're wired thanks to chemical imbalances they keep returning to thoughts of killing themselves and other such nasties.
 
xbhaskarx said:
I don't really understand all the stuff about the "darkness" coming into his relationships / sex.
I mean, i get that it's related to him being molested as a child, but what does it mean?

I wish he had elaborated on that. A few examples (like the quote from his dad about Muslims and terrorists) would have been helpful.
Click to expand...
Really?...
 
xbhaskarx said:
I don't really understand all the stuff about the "darkness" coming into his relationships / sex.
I mean, i get that it's related to him being molested as a child, but what does it mean?

I wish he had elaborated on that. A few examples (like the quote from his dad about Muslims and terrorists) would have been helpful.
Click to expand...
It just sounded like what happened to him hung over his life, and he couldn't do anything to get rid of it. Say you're stuck in the dark, you can't see, you don't know where to go, you might not be able to find anyone, and if you do, they still might not be able to get you back in the light. Darkness unfortunately was a good metaphor for describing his life. But anyway, this guy couldn't even find temporary escape in sleep. I remember once a nightmare was so horrible for me, it was exhausting to sleep and I had to wake up. I can't imagine having to do that every night. I feel so bad for this guy and if there's anyone to get angry at, it's the guy that raped him.
 
What? Am I the only one who is really sympathetic with people who commit suicide?

some times GAF makes me look like an Alien :/
 
I'd also like to address my family, if you can call them that. I despise everything they stand for and I truly hate them, in a non-emotional, dispassionate and what I believe is a healthy way. The world will be a better place when they're dead--one with less hatred and intolerance.

If you're unfamiliar with the situation, my parents are fundamentalist Christians who kicked me out of their house and cut me off financially when I was 19 because I refused to attend seven hours of church a week.

They live in a black and white reality they've constructed for themselves. They partition the world into good and evil and survive by hating everything they fear or misunderstand and calling it love. They don't understand that good and decent people exist all around us, "saved" or not, and that evil and cruel people occupy a large percentage of their church. They take advantage of people looking for hope by teaching them to practice the same hatred they practice.

A random example:

"I am personally convinced that if a Muslim truly believes and obeys the Koran, he will be a terrorist." - George Zeller, August 24, 2010.

If you choose to follow a religion where, for example, devout Catholics who are trying to be good people are all going to Hell but child molestors go to Heaven (as long as they were "saved" at some point), that's your choice, but it's fucked up. Maybe a God who operates by those rules does exist. If so, fuck Him.

Their church was always more important than the members of their family and they happily sacrificed whatever necessary in order to satisfy their contrived beliefs about who they should be.

I grew up in a house where love was proxied through a God I could never believe in. A house where the love of music with any sort of a beat was literally beaten out of me. A house full of hatred and intolerance, run by two people who were experts at appearing kind and warm when others were around. Parents who tell an eight year old that his grandmother is going to Hell because she's Catholic. Parents who claim not to be racist but then talk about the horrors of miscegenation. I could list hundreds of other examples, but it's tiring.
Click to expand...
I'm thankful I was raised by an agnostic father and a Catholic mother that went to church two or three times a year.
 
This report first establishes that an intact and robust civil justice system is necessary to the health of society and exposes how rarely doctors are actually being sued. Next, it examines why doctors order tests and procedures. It then surveys available empirical evidence showing that a supposed “defensive medicine” mindset has little impact on medical decisions or on medical practice costs. The report also exposes extraordinary shortcomings in the methodology and academic rigor of the evidence most frequently cited by civil justice opponents.
Abuse is one of the worst crimes one can commit, and one of the hardest to enact justice on.
 
BroMezzano said:
Almost makes me want to give suicide another go. His letter made it sound so... appealing. Sometimes life just gives one more than one can carry.
Click to expand...

Wtf, don't say stupid stuff like that. Life's worth living, and help is available.

This guy obviously spent too much time with his own thoughts, talking himself into an unhealthy state of mind.
 
Trent Strong said:
So you believe that his soul might never find peace and he might suffer through the kind of nightmarish existence he had in life forever? Everlasting torment? That's terrible. It's a good thing there's no such thing as an aferlife.
Click to expand...

...... um no.. yes.. what?

LOL, I'm not sure where you were going with that reply buddy, but obviously.. who honestly knows what exist after death. I mean, we barely understand our position in life when we are alive (let alone dead). We can only hope that death offers some form of eternal peace, but that is a horrifying gamble.. that should only be taken when no other VIABLE option is available. With that said, I feel like Zeller was a better candidate for survival than suicide.

Zeller biggest mistake was to allow those tragic "secrets" to manifest within himself, something you should NEVER do. You can not heal a heavy wound by hiding it, you must openly expose it.. so it can be repaired from the core. This is probably one of the primiary reason why so many contemplate suicide, because they allow these "secrets" to eat away at them internally. SPEAK OUT, let someone know fully what you are dealing with, regardless of the subject matter (even more so when it comes to sexual-abuse).

Sadly victims of serve abuse (mental, physical, sexual, verbal, etc..) are not a uncommon matter, but more importantly.. many of these these victims not only succeed in becoming stronger survivors, but find new ways to flourish within life (something that I can vouch for). No matter what you are fighting with, you must understand you're not alone in the battle. They're so many who have suffered threw similar situations, who can help you survive beyond your current anguish.
 
That letter made me angry. I'm tempted to say the full text should be tattooed on the faces of Zeller's mother, father, and rapist. The truth is, our "justice system" can bring no more justice to this situation than the act of petty vengeance I just described. The horrors Bill Zeller experienced can never be redressed. All we can do is strive to prevent such crimes, and to find and incarcerate the subhuman pig who committed this obscenity, as well as the parents who chose bigotry over the life of their child.

Depressed people need to SEEK HELP. Some problems can't be solved on your own. You have to reach out to someone and entrust them with your demons.
 
I'm still pretty hositile toward suicide. The act is so incredibly stupid, I can't get behind it regardless of the reason, which I'm sure the self-killer thinks are good.

The primary exception to this is terminal illnesses.
 
JGS said:
I'm still pretty hositile toward suicide. The act is so incredibly stupid, I can't get behind it regardless of the reason, which I'm sure the self-killer thinks are good.

The primary exception to this is terminal illnesses.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. There's always another perspective, anothers' shoes to put yourself in. Suicide is never acceptable, and it shouldn't be encouraged. Doesn't matter whether that person has 'responsibilities' (family etc), it simply shouldn't be advocated as 'ok' and 'oh that's too bad we'll help you pass' (aka die). But like JGS said, there is an exception and that is unbearable suffering from whatever terminal illness.

(reminds me of that movie with alpacino in it, anyone remember?)

However, even if there was a mass suicide wave across the nation (for example), from a technical point of view, whatever. If anything it'll help (overpopulation, econ etc).

But from any other point of view, human, religious, whatever, it would be a giant dip in the human timeline equivalent of the dark ages, just for the sheer stupidity.
 
Hmm. I can see how people with such trauma give up in the end. If you constantly walk around with that in your head, what kind of life is that?

But a lot of suicides I can't understand. People kill themselves and leave their kids behind without a father or mother, leave their loved ones with a lifetime of misery because they keep blaming themselves for not seeing the signs earlier.

I just wish there are more effective ways to fix peoples lives and keep them from leaving this world.
 
We can put our animals down but because of some fairy tale humans have to suffer endlessly. If a person is truly out of options they should have the right to say they are done. Being young and sheltered from such darkness I can see how some just cant imagine giving up the precious give of life.
 
madara said:
We can put our animals down but because of some fairy tale humans have to suffer endlessly. If a person is truly out of options they should have the right to say they are done. Being young and sheltered from such darkness I can see how some just cant imagine giving up the precious give of life.
Click to expand...
Oh, we put animals down because they're sad? Didn't know that. There's a difference between putting someone down for suffering emotionally, suffering physically, or suffering emotionally from physical 'trauma'.

Fairy tales have nothing to do with it. 'Out of options' is something objective, to each in his own right.
 
You'll never hear me say a good word about someone who commits suicide. My aunt did it and left two kids behind, but she was a real druggie piece of shit so the world is no worse off for it. I'm sure it fucked up her two sons though. It shocked our family, but we dealt with.

What we couldn't deal with was the suicide of her father (my grandpa) a few years later. His only son (my uncle) was about to die of an inoperable brain tumor and our family was watching him deteriorate right before our eyes. So what does this asshole do? He blows his own brains out. So now we've got two bodies to bury. I really hate him for it.

Fuck suicide.
 
Sentry said:
Oh, we put animals down because they're sad? Didn't know that. There's a difference between putting someone down for suffering emotionally, suffering physically, or suffering emotionally from physical 'trauma'.

Fairy tales have nothing to do with it. 'Out of options' is something objective, to each in his own right.
Click to expand...

Being in an intense state of depression your entire life because you were raped repeatedly is not the same as being sad. Sad is what happens when you lose a $5 bet.

Animals do not have the mental capacity to experience this. If they did and could communicate that, perhaps we might put them down for that reason.
 
Sentry said:
'Out of options' is something objective, to each in his own right.
Click to expand...

But you just said you didn't accept anyone's right to commit suicide. So that's the opposite of objective, as you're placing your own objectivity upon other people's options and choices.
 
It's written really well.. He could have been a help for other people with such problems by making a book instead of suicide but I understand that this gives him quick satisfactoin. Still.. :(
 
RIP.

He seems to be implying that either his father was the molester OR that his parents were aware that someone they personally knew molested him and did nothing about it. Just basing it off of this passage:

If you choose to follow a religion where, for example, devout Catholics
who are trying to be good people are all going to Hell but child
molestors go to Heaven (as long as they were "saved" at some point),
that's your choice, but it's fucked up.
Click to expand...

(I know that it isn't necessarily the case--that it was the father or a man whose actions the parents tolerated-- but a case can be made for the inference.)
 
BroMezzano said:
Almost makes me want to give suicide another go. His letter made it sound so... appealing. Sometimes life just gives one more than one can carry.
Click to expand...

talk to people, ask for help.

Help other people, do some charity works, volunteer for homeless, orphanage, seniors, sick people. They would value and cherish your work forever
 
newsguy said:
I read that whole letter yesterday, but what stood out to me was that he never spoke to anyone about it. That's probably what did him in, you need to let something that dark out, or it consumes you.
Click to expand...
I havent read any comments past page one so sorry is this had been answered. He mentions telling someone he was gay and word got around. That probably through all trust he had of people out the window. How could he tell others a much deeper wound?

Liu Kang's first post is on the mark.
 
TL4E said:
I'll posit a situation for anti-suicide gaf:

say you have no long-term responsibilities to tend to (e.g. kids, financial duties, etc.), yet you experience no happiness in life and it is overwhelmingly unlikely that this can change within any bearable time-frame. The net sorrows far outweigh the net joys of life. How can you possibly deny one the right to suicide, barring religious reasons?
Click to expand...

Because feeling something like "overwhelmingly unlikely that this can change within any bearable time frame" is a prediction borne out of emotion, not logic. Nobody can predict the future.
 
dude said:
How dare they not continue suffering just for other people's sake!
Click to expand...

Depends on the situation. When you bring a child into the world you need to put their welfare above your own, and not doing so is inexcusably selfish. If I had a child and to save their life I needed to amputate my arm I'd take out a pen knife do it right there. I wouldn't put any amount of pain either physical or emotional above the needs of my child, and I look down on anyone who would.

Clearly thats not related to the original story about the Princeton student. I don't look down at him for making that choice, as much as the thought of suicide sickens me.
 
weekend_warrior said:
Depends on the situation. When you bring a child into the world you need to put their welfare above your own, and not doing so is inexcusably selfish. If I had a child and to save their life I needed to amputate my arm I'd take out a pen knife do it right there. I wouldn't put any amount of pain either physical or emotional above the needs of my child, and I look down on anyone who would.
Click to expand...
How do you know their situation? Have you ever actually read about or heard from children surviving a parent's suicide? It's often full of "my dad loved me, he was the best, I never knew this would happen, he did everything for me until the very end."

Again, most suicidal people are not in their right mind, literally. It is not an expression. Their mind is totally fucked up and they are not perceiving the world as they normally do. Something flips a switch and they can go from a loving parent willing to do anything to orphaning their children the next day.
 
this could have all been avoided if he just seek help. not sure if he did (i only skimmed through it). don't know what to really think about this. i just hope whoever caused this "darkness" in his heart was captured so no one else would have to go through this.
 
Igo said:
I have no probem with suicide. It's completely selfish and somewhat cowardly but it's their life and they can do with it as they please.
Click to expand...
what an ignorant comment. Some people have chemical imbalances, mental illnesses, etc that cause them to think differently than "normal" people. Imagine waking up every day with no purpose and nothing that excites you and makes you want to get out of bed. Imagine fealing dread all the time about anything. Imagine not tasting a well prepared meal because your senses are dulled to life. Imagine feeling alone in a room full of people.
 
My friend went to high school with this guy and has been really bothered by this, said he never seen it coming. :( I did understand a lot of the frustration, I just hate that suicide was viewed as the only out.
 
Presidential Candidate Paul Ryan
The dashing House Budget Committee chairman found himself in the limelight in June 2011 following the tabling and subsequent rejection by the Senate of his House-approved budget plan. Despite the proposal’s defeat, the 7-term Wisconsin Congressman’s attempt at repealing President Obama's controversial Affordable Care Act suddenly thrust the 42-year old fiscal conservative into an unfamiliar leadership position that resurrected calls for him to enter the Republican nomination race.
 
soundahfekz said:
My friend went to high school with this guy and has been really bothered by this, said he never seen it coming. :( I did understand a lot of the frustration, I just hate that suicide was viewed as the only out.
Click to expand...

Did you read the entire letter? He sort of detailed various things he tried before coming to the conclusion that suicide was the answer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Tried to commit suicide Friday....failed
27
76
DGrayson replied
Virginia Giuffre commits suicide
31
446
DAHGAMING replied
I Think Most People Are Not Good....
2 3
118
6K
RagnarokIV replied
I was banned on Reddit AMA
Drama  2
56
321
Plies replied
Jeff Baena (husband of Aubrey Plaza) commits suicide
2
82
8K
rkofan87 replied
Top Bottom