I would like to see more moe characters in anme who are strong and "mature".

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Bomber Bob said:
Why people keep mentioning shirobako? I don't think is a MOE anime
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The don don donuts scene is kinda MOE and several character have traits usually associated with moe (hello goth loli sama and Director).

Of course it's not that MOE when compared to K-On. Nevertheless, it's a good show, and i hope everyone who have even a tiny bit of interest in animation industry watch the show.

And yes, moe as a word evolve in meaning. There's no definitive meaning of moe, hence why in this thread everyone have different opinion regarding what is moe.
Me, i usually associate it with character that i like so much, regardless of gender or physical traits. So yes, i think Kaiji and Madarame (genshiken) is moe, and both of them are adult guy. So yeah, your milleage may vary
 
Holy, did you ever watch Madoka?

Those 12 episodes are actually a good example of what you're looking for.

But in general, moe and strong/mature do not overlap. They're contradictory.
 
I actually found something..........

A new anime this season titled Rolling☆Girls

About a group of moe girls that are in a biker gang

xElL7aD.jpg
 
DoktorEvil said:
Holy, did you ever watch Madoka?

Those 12 episodes are actually a good example of what you're looking for.

But in general, moe and strong/mature do not overlap. They're contradictory.
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Madoka is more a deconstruction of moe than placing it in a mature setting. It mocks it and destroys (at times quite literally) the tropes of moe and the magical girl genre, showing how naive and idealised it really is, and if placed in a realistic setting (relative to the whole "we got magic" aspect) how it would cripple the characters.

Admiral Woofington said:
My Sons of Anarchy Can't Possibly be this Cute
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Ron Pearlman is best waifu, so kawaii.
 
cajunator said:
Seek help?
Would you tell an lgbt person to seek help? Its literally the same sort of thing. People are different. We are all wired differently. Its not wrong its just how people are. This kind of thinking is far more damaging than some lolicon manga.
Society cant continue to just expect everyone to be homogenous even if it makes them uncomfortable.
i think holybaikal actually creates these threads with that in mind. She means well.
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Cant believe you compared lgbt persons to pedophiles, absolutely disgusting. Ban all 2d pedo content.
 
HolyBaikal said:
Like being preoccupied with economic status and achievements at work and things like that. Being worried about not being married or in a relationship or not "being accomplished" or having a respected job, doesn't seem very mature to me.
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Are you saying feminists fighting for workplace equality are not mature? And people struggling with societal expectations on relationships and livelihood are simply immature? How would you define mature without leaning into anime platitudes like "believe in yourself" and "power of friendship"?
 
I love how people who make the slightest attempt to defend moe have to preface their statement with "I personally don't like moe/I don't consider myself to be a fan of moe" XD
 
Trojita said:
I actually found something..........

A new anime this season titled Rolling☆Girls

About a group of moe girls that are in a biker gang

http://i.imgur.com/xElL7aD.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

The summary sound hardcore!
[quote=from funi]
Gun your engines and get ready for the full-throttle adventure of The Rolling Girls, the first original anime from the studio that brought you Attack on Titan! In the wake of the Great Tokyo War, Japan – as the world once knew it – no longer exists. What remains is a fragmented network of independent nations, each ruled by a prophet known as a Mosa. Every Mosa commands an army, or Mob, as they seek to conquer anyone in their path. Enter Nozomi, Yukina, Ai, and Chiaya. Together, these intrepid and adorable girls travel across battle-ravaged Japan, seeking to transform themselves – and their world!
[/quote]
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^That's totally inaccurate. Clarkson would never get excited about motorcycles.
 
Mauricio_Magus said:
Does every anime thread have to end up about pedophilia?

really?
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Happens almost every time. I pretty much hate this topic now since it devolves into the same garbage time and time again. In fact, I'm not even convinced that this conversation is worth having anymore since it never leads to anything productive, or insightful.
 
Moe was originally meant to describe the feeling a character can elicit from its viewer, rather than to describe a certain type of character. Unfortunately these feelings are almost always directed to said "certain type" of character, so here we are.
 
HK-47 said:
So not helpful at all, especially since Tech hasnt been making statements like moe is just cute anime I dont like nor insinuating it.
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?
He asked me for a definition so I gave it to him. I never accused him of anything.

Another reason why it is important to use the term correctly is so you avoid paradoxal statements like "I don't like moe shows". A paradox because to be a "moe show" surely implies you find aspects of the show moe but it's odd for you to then say you hate the things that you find moe.

The reason why it is similar things that people oft find moe is that it's like a lot of other feelings that are shared within society. We find a lot of the same things cute, scary, joyful etc, but it's not universal. So much like we may find different things scary we'll probably find different things moe.
 
ghostjoke said:
Madoka is more a deconstruction of moe than placing it in a mature setting. It mocks it and destroys (at times quite literally) the tropes of moe and the magical girl genre, showing how naive and idealised it really is, and if placed in a realistic setting (relative to the whole "we got magic" aspect) how it would cripple the characters.
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What's more mature themed than a deconstruction that eats away at your feels?
 
Moe is a feeling. Though I do think it means more than that. And more than a character you want to protect, too.

Yandere and Yangire characters are called moe a lot. But I don't think they're characterized to be protect.

I do think that moe is a very broad word. But I do think it means something. Moe is a cultural trend in anime, and it has some good sides and bad sides. The anime industry is cuter and more feminine, now. I think.

Moe is a bunch of things together. Like a trend. Not all of them are bad.
Moe doesn't just mean loli. While I don't agree with what everyone here is saying about loli, I kind of hope we don't talk about that too much here, .. I wouldn't like this to end up like the Next Door thread.

Loli does have some things to do with moe. But moe has to do with a lot of things. From what I understand, moe came from the shoujo and bishoujo culture. Especially magical girl anime and visual novels. Bishoujo visual novels are mostly for straight boys, but that doesn't mean everything about them or moe is bad.

Moe anime is a lot less violent a lot of times. A lot of anime that wasn't moe was also very violent and about male characters rather than female characters. And a lot of moe anime isn't just for men and boys. It's for people of all ages and all genders. Having female characters that everyone can like and relate to. And even if a show was hoped for one audience, like men, doesn't mean it can't appeal to others.

My Little Pony was made for little girls. But plenty of boys and adult men and women like it. It's an all ages and all genders show. Just like many moe anime are. Most of my friends are women, I don't actually have many friends that are men. And almost all of them are fans of moe anime. One of my best friends is a lesbian who loves Lucky Star, Yuru Yuri, Umineko no Naku Koro ni, and Puella Magi Madoka Magica. She doesn't like My Little Pony, though, which I wish she did. :< She made me watch Madoka Magica, which I didn't like because it was so depressing.

Anyway.. um... what I'm saying is that nice things can be for all genders. Moe isn't just for men or boys.

Moe are... well... they're not just endearing things, I guess. Though they could be. I guess it's kind of like the word anime. Anime means all animation. But it also means Japanese animation for many people. With moe, it means things like endearing personality traits and physical traits. But it also means cute traits that have been popular in in otaku culture, like Magical Girl anime and Bishoujo visual novels.

So, I guess, when you're talking about moe, you're talking about otaku culture and a little bit fujoshi culture. And what they like. Otaku and fujoshi like different things, but it is a culture. And all cultures have good and bad things. So when people say that they don't like moe, and that all moe is bad, it's like they're saying that everything otaku like and thing is cute is bad.

Moe is... kind of like shoujo Magical Girl culture meets visual novel culture, meets cute culture in Japan, meets lolicon and shotacon, meets all of anime and manga culture, meets Jpop and idol culture, and all sorts of other things. Some parts of it may be bad, but it's very complex and full of good things and bad things. It reflects... maybe the word is trends? Like trends in Japanese... um.. "nerd" cultures.. that instead of escaping from the scariness of work life and bad things about adulthood, to adventure, to cuteness and harmony.

Moe is a trend of escaping to harmony rather than adventure. And of appreciating a certain kind of femininity that is cute. Like the Hello Kitty kind of cute.
 
if you think moe is nothing but cutesy girls then you don't watch enough anime.

moe can be anything from that, PLUS a character who eats lots of meat, tsundere flatchest characters, breast envy, a glasses character being bossy or knowledgeable, a sister who has a brother complex.

but i get it, people can keep harping K-ON as the only definition so they can set themselves apart as the more "mature and well adjusted" fans of japanese animation while they post in a videogame forum!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhPLK1Tn1GQ
 
Cream said:
Sorry your thread backfired, OP :(
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Thank you. :<

I wish more people on NeoGAF were more open minded to moe. I am a feminist and I do think there are a lot of problems in moe. But I don't think that moe is bad. I think you can enjoy things that have problems but still be critical of their bad parts.

Like Anita Sarkeesian says in her videos.

I don't think that liking K-On! and Lucky Star and other anime like that makes me not a feminist.

It seems like many people who don't like moe, want it to mean things they don't like in anime. But shouldn't the word moe belong to its fans, the people who love and appreciate moe, rather than being rappropriated as a bad thing by people who don't like it? I think that moe should be defined by people who love and appreciate moe.
 
So OP, you dismiss the general definiton of the word moe and you want to discuss based on your own definition of this "word" (at this point the word "moe" seems pointless since is not clearly defined), but how do you expect us to discuss on your terms when even you, as a "japanese culture expert", can't even give a clear definition of your understanding of the word "moe"?? Looks pointless to me, is like If I made a thread trying to discuss about "vanok" (invented word by me) not giving a definition of vanok... There is no point.


If you want to discuss about this, and you don't accept the general consensus for the word "moe" then you should start the thread pointing that out and giving your own CLEAR definition of moe so people can discuss around that. Until that happens this thread seems pointless, you gave very vague definitions of moe, how are we gonna discuss around that?


What I have seen in this thread is basically: posters talk about this using the general consensus for "moe", and then your response to them is like: "but that is not what moe is about, moe for me is...insert vague definition of moe in about 10 paragraphs making it all more confusing...". If you can't explain what moe is, shortly and clear, then I believe the word "moe" is utterly useless and shouldn't be a matter of discussion since can't be defined for all the same.


Edit: tldr: Basically, if you need to write a book to vaguely define the word "moe" then I think there is a problem with the so called "word" itself and shouldn't be a matter of discussion until clearly defined.
 
So this is what wiki has to say about a definition:

According to the Japan Society and Patrick W. Galbraith it means - a rarefied, a euphoric response to fantasy characters or representations of them – however, one of the most famous instances of moe has been in response to the drama version of a living person. It is a pun derived from a Japanese word that literally means "budding," as with a plant that is about to flower, and thus it can also be used to mean "budding" as with a preadolescent girl. Since this word is also a homonym for "burning" pronounced moe (&#29123;&#12360;?), there is also speculation that the word stems from the burning passion felt for the characters
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So it stems from people really, really liking and identifying with animated characters and a homonym for burning, and there is a clear and logical link between the word and the whole loli thing based around the concept of 'budding'.

Although reading further, there's no clear definition of the term, rendering it pretty much useless as a debating point, and the whole concept seems to boil down to emotionally immature males latching onto culturally-specific Jungian archetypes.
 
I havent read the thread thoroughly but I have this irrational dislike of 'moe' or cute-worship culture in general. It seems infantilizing to me, at best. At worst, they reek of pedophilia.

IDK

I dont wanna judge yoooo but... I avoid moe at all costs. And I inwardly judge people who are into it. Come at me, bro~

Also moe characters ruin everything they are in.

.... Cept if they are Moe from The Simpsons.
 
YesNOnoNOYes said:
I havent read the thread thoroughly but I have this irrational dislike of 'moe' or cute-worship culture in general. It seems infantilizing to me, at best. At worst, they reek of pedophilia.

IDK

I dont wanna judge yoooo but... I avoid moe at all costs. And I inwardly judge people who are into it. Come at me, bro~

Also moe characters ruin everything they are in.

.... Cept if they are Moe from The Simpsons.
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irl kids are the epitome of moe, so it's fair to say that you hate kids with the burning passion of a thousand stars right?

all those depraved parents squeeing at the sight of their cute adorable sleeping children, all sinners!
 
YesNOnoNOYes said:
I havent read the thread thoroughly but I have this irrational dislike of 'moe' or cute-worship culture in general. It seems infantilizing to me, at best. At worst, they reek of pedophilia.

IDK

I dont wanna judge yoooo but... I avoid moe at all costs. And I inwardly judge people who are into it. Come at me, bro~

Also moe characters ruin everything they are in.

.... Cept if they are Moe from The Simpsons.
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Given the way its described generally, cute animal pictures and video could also be described as moe.
 
John Kowalski said:
irl kids are the epitome of moe, so it's fair to say that you hate kids with the burning passion of a thousand stars right?
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Sir. Mini-humans are not such terrible creatures! Mind your analogies! You must wield your words with class! Such recklessness~ I say~

kyser73 said:
Given the way its described generally, cute animal pictures and video could also be described as moe.
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sorry i should have inserted anime people somewhere in there :<
 
YesNOnoNOYes said:
I havent read the thread thoroughly... blah blah blah
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And here we go again with the silly incorrect usage and these tin foil hat conspiracies about a culture, assuming people are paedophiles and how 'they ruin me japanimes!'. Like a moth to a flame, they see the word 'moe' and insist on going on about how much they hate it.
 
HolyBaikal said:
When people reacted violently against things like anime or moe, it feels like to me that maybe the reason they feel that way is that they see it as being too feminine.

We do live in a society that femininity isn't as valued as masculinity...
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E3rfvvB.jpg





youre creating a phantom enemy there
 
-Horizon- said:
Let's just say that some doujins have completely warped my perspective of this manga.
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i feel sometimes the doujins are more popular than the manga itself. so i can understand why some people might have the perceptions a tad affected.

which is a shame, because the manga is really homely and funny and about as feel good as you can get.

and is a perfect example of MOE that isn't the underage tripe people keep harping about.
 
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