I would like to see more moe characters in anme who are strong and "mature".

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Crossing Eden said:
Those are cartoons, the majority of which lack any hint of sexualization, well, not so coincidentally the ones from that were animated in the east and have an anime style. I mean there's a major difference between a young adult like Anna from Frozen and a little girl in anime, one isn't meant to be pandering and is way less likely to have shit like this.

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Also, if we narrow it down to a specific example:
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I think it is worth considering why Mabel is a character that is EXTREMELY popular to turn into an anime "moe" style of art:
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if anyone fits the aesthetic, it's her.
 
Cream said:
I actually listened to a screenwriting podcast that featured the writer and co-director of Frozen, and she was talking about how sexy the female characters were considered during production. To be fair, she mostly meant Elsa. You're probably right anyway.
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They didn't hinge on that and we're still dealing with characters who're technically adults. Although when I showed one of my best friends the song let it go he thought Elsa was being sexualized during this moment.
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cosmicblizzard said:
What's sexualized about that image? There's probably much better examples you could use.
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I wasn't using that image as an example of sexualization I was using it as an example of audience pandering.
 
Crossing Eden said:
They didn't hinge on that and we're still dealing with characters who're technically adults. Although when I showed one of my best friends the song let it go he thought Elsa was being sexualized during this moment.
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I didn't realize female characters had to be presented as conservatively as possible or risk being considered sexualized...
 
Cream said:
Also, if we narrow it down to a specific example:


I think it is worth considering why Mabel is a character that is EXTREMELY popular to turn into an anime "moe" style of art:


if anyone fits the aesthetic, it's her.
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She is, but then again a shitload of people who draw fanart default to an anime art style.

BeatResetsTheWorld said:
I didn't realize female characters had to be presented as conservatively as possible or risk being considered sexualized...
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Whoa whoa I never said I agreed with him when he said that. I just viewed that entire sequence as a testament to how good Disney animation is these days.
 
Bisky from Hunter x Hunter kinda fits all of your criteria:

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Extremely powerful, mature by definition, and moe in appearance
most of the time
. I never really cared for Moe character behavior or archetypes, but I do like deceptive character design. I have no issue with a badass cute character. Hell that's the only kind of cute I've liked.
 
Cream said:
Also, if we narrow it down to a specific example:


I think it is worth considering why Mabel is a character that is EXTREMELY popular to turn into an anime "moe" style of art:


if anyone fits the aesthetic, it's her.
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I'd argue that Mabel is a child character more similar to children of 90's and early 2000's anime then the moe of today.
 
Daingurse said:
Bisky from Hunter x Hunter kinda fits all of your criteria:

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Extremely powerful, mature by definition, and moe in appearance
most of the time
. I never really cared for Moe character behavior or archetypes, but I do like deceptive character design. I have no issue with a badass cute character. Hell that's the only kind of cute I've liked.
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More anime used to be like this with one or two characters that are cute and happen to elicit moe feelings from the viewers. I don't think OP can expect to get anything from characters who are designed to be moe characters right from the point of their origins, which is what many anime are doing right now. Instead of animes that have characters who are sometimes moe, these animes are all about moe personifications doing various things.

Xe4 said:
I'd argue that Mabel is a child character more similar to children of 90's and early 2000's anime then the moe of today.
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Yup. It's before moe became a phenomenon.
 
Cream said:
I disagree completely. There are characters that you may think shouldn't be sexualized, but to say "there should be no sexualization of any characters" is wrong.
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It depends on what the purpose of the sexualization is and who it is, I have no problem with firmly believing that 10-16 year olds in anime or manga shouldn't be sexualized, because the majority of the time it serves no purpose other than pandering for the viewer. "Uh oh, we fell over, and your skirt pulled up with your crotch directly in my face." It's just childish.
 
Crossing Eden said:
It depends on what the purpose of the sexualization is and who it is, I have no problem with firmly believing that 10-16 year olds in anime or manga shouldn't be sexualized, because the majority of the time it serves no purpose other than pandering for the viewer. "Uh oh, we fell over, and your skirt pulled up with your crotch directly in my face." It's just childish.
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On that, we agree.

I will be the absolute first person to profess my love for fanservice and sexualized content in movies, games, and tv shows. I'm a perv and I know it.

But I like good stories even more. I like things to have a point. I like things to be related to plot, story and characterization. That's why your example of stupid tripping over and face on the male protagonist is stupid and annoying, but Bayonetta works.
 
I just want more mature female characters in anime. I don't care for moe since current moe's just pandering and insults women (I wish the fad would just sizzle down already). I did love Cardcaptor Sakura's protagonist because she was strong and cute at the same time, but never did I feel like she pandered to the male audience. She felt like a very natural character for her age, not one that was artificially cute so men could salivate over her.

Though honestly, I'd like older female characters in general, like Balsa from Guardian of the Spirit. Kind of tired of seeing <18 year-old girls in my anime all the time.
 
Crossing Eden said:
It depends on what the purpose of the sexualization is and who it is, I have no problem with firmly believing that 10-16 year olds in anime or manga shouldn't be sexualized, because the majority of the time it serves no purpose other than pandering for the viewer. "Uh oh, we fell over, and your skirt pulled up with your crotch directly in my face." It's just childish.
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You would hate bokusatsu tenshi dokuro-chan then.
 
LOLDSFAN said:
Iris is a strong, independent Pokemon trainer who don't need no comb.

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Iris was cool, her show version, I remember her game version was a bit annoying.

I remember a ton of people DESPISED her in the show because she was really outspoken, especially the "you're such a kid/kodomo ne!" line she said to Ash, which really bugged a lot of people. Also, it was pretty common to see some interesting descriptions for her like "savage" and "barbarian", which...well, were some odd words to call her.

My guess is most Pokemon fans probably hear that all the time so something about that line digs into their core.

I'm sort of upset HolyBaikal has my Pokemon traveling partner as her avatar. :(
 
Cream said:
In what way?
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Completely ridiculous and silly, weird clothing, not made to be "cute" (braces, voice, etc.), actually acts like a kid and goes on crazy adventures.

I'm not saying it's a perfect fit but Mabel is NOT moe, she's a ridiculous kid. Similar to many (mostly older) anime and many older western cartoons. There are a lot of similarities that can be connected to moe from the west (Disney eyes, cuteness, innocence of female protagonists in older Disney movies) and mostly that has to do with the large influence that Disney had on anime as a whole combined with Japan's culture today.
 
Unbounded said:
You would hate bokusatsu tenshi dokuro-chan then.
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I pretty much avoid anime and manga altogether at this point. CN has been providing an ridiculous ton of good entertaining and great animation work during the past few years. The only manga that i've read recently is A Silent Voice, which was a really well executed idea and I can't recall even a single instance of the characters being sexualized or the typical anime cliches. Its' refreshing to see kids actually act like kids for once instead of acting like a caricature.
 
It doesn't matter who it is. Anything that has an animu face is a little girl, and ur a little girl or a pedo too. Also anything that walks with hips is a lustrous sexual fantasy, and you're also a monster. Everyone should feel bad, just keep it in your pants perv. only fully clothed women being non-sexual, non-objectified, and independent plz thnx u guys R gross.
 
Crossing Eden said:
I pretty much avoid anime and manga altogether at this point. CN has been providing an ridiculous ton of good entertaining and great animation work during the past few years. The only manga that i've read recently is A Silent Voice, which was a really well executed idea and I can't recall even a single instance of the characters being sexualized or the typical anime cliches. Its' refreshing to see kids actually act like kids for once instead of acting like a caricature.
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If it's the same series I'm thinking of, I believe that actually got more than bit of criticism from manga-gaf regarding the character's actions.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
If it's the same series I'm thinking of, I believe that actually got more than bit of criticism from manga-gaf regarding the character's actions.
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The characters generally make a lot more decisions and aren't presented as perfect people. The entire first few chapters are pretty much anti-bullying story told from the perspective of the bully.
 
Extollere said:
It doesn't matter who it is. Anything that has an animu face is a little girl, and ur a little girl or a pedo too. Also anything that walks with hips is a lustrous sexual fantasy, and you're also a monster. Everyone should feel bad, just keep it in your pants perv. only fully clothed women being non-sexual, non-objectified, and independent plz thnx u guys R gross.
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Great job adding to the discussion. There arguments to be made against moe, and the sexualisation of young girls in anime, and you responding like this does nothing.
 
Extollere said:
It doesn't matter who it is. Anything that has an animu face is a little girl, and ur a little girl or a pedo too. Also anything that walks with hips is a lustrous sexual fantasy, and you're also a monster. Everyone should feel bad, just keep it in your pants perv. only fully clothed women being non-sexual, non-objectified, and independent plz thnx u guys R gross.
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What in the world? Holy shit what a passive aggressive shitpost. Who in this thread said that all anime=little girl or accused people of being pedos? And if you're talking about me bringing up what he thought about Elsa's walk I never explicitly stated that he was offended or that I agreed that Elsa in that instance was being sexualized.
 
Every time what? All they did was post a picture of her, and she was telling them she is not a toddler.
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The trope of the little girl being a 100+ year old demon/witch/dragon.
 
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