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[dmaul1114]

Don’t really see a need for anyone. Nintendo does their own thing. PlayStation has their exclusives (with late ports of most to PC) and covers the third party AAA and indies for people who don’t want a gaming PC.

Xbox’s biggest issue, IMO, has just not having anything to offer over PlayStation or PC. There’s not really a need for a second AAA game focused console as far as I can tell. Nintendo and PlayStation pretty much cover every genre/graphic style. PC covers everything but Nintendo for people into PC gaming.

 

[simpatico]

I don't think it makes sense anymore since the Playstation is basically a boutique PC. When Microsoft got into the market this really wasn't the case. A competitor couldn't just white label a Steam Box and throw together a Windows wrapper like they could today.

 

[kevboard]

Valve and Microsoft will probably release similar systems in the future.
Valve will bring back the Steam Machines (hopefully under a new name like Steam Station or something), and Microsoft will make more PC like open "consoles" with a gaming frontend that can switch into a windows desktop like the Deck currently can.

 

[Represent.]

I could

 

[EDMIX]

So just to be clear, all those weekly threads with layoffs at various publishers doesn't mean the industry is shaky?

Just to be clear, I do not measure the current state of the industry based on fucking feelings..

No time in the industry have we NOT had layoffs, using this odd logic no time has the industry ever been stable (no fucking industry is stable using this fucking logic)

So if you are looking for some weird perfect utopia type thing where no one gets fired and kumbaya is being sung by the camp fire, maybe you don't have a place actually measuring the state of the industry.

So sorry man, you want to make some emotional teary argument, about a subject based on objective data.

I show you records broken in sales, you show me tears
I show you record profits made, you show me crying lol
I show you new IP made, you cry more for the ones lost
I show you a new team formed, you cry over the one that closed lol

We are not measuring the same things. You want to cry over this, thus you don't want to use any fucking data cause it breaks your whole narrative.


I can only discuss this with real objective data that can be measured to support or disprove something about the state of the industry.

 

[FunkMiller]

 

[Boots_the_God]

I hope they don’t bow out. Xbox is where we play MP games. Say what you want about the company and its direction but imo MP games play better on Xbox consoles. Note: I predominantly play fighters and shooters. Idk what’s up with PlayStation and it’s higher input latency

 

[TYRiAX]

No:

Apple already makes stupid money from App Store - and most if not all the major money makers have iOS versions already (COD, EAFC etc) so why invest in dedicated hardware to play regular games better?

Epic are having a hard enough time making the EGS profitable without the extra burden of hardware dev.

Google crashed and burned already with Stadia.

Fuck Tencent.

Perhaps:

Samsung is kind of like Apple in that it has the hardware knowhow and fuckloads of cash, but unlike apple doesnt already make bucket loads in App sales as most Samsung users would buy from Google Play. They would have to be willing to eat billions while getting it setup and the risk is probably too high.

Valve is probably the most likely in that they will just keep iterating on the Steamdeck, and users who want to play on TV will just dock it.

 

[xanaum]

If I’m not mistaken, Elon Musk is really into games. He’s shown to be a fan of stuff like Elden Ring. I think he’d shake up the gaming industry if he got involved.

A console without power cables that also works as a Starlink receiver and is integrated with a possible Twitter gaming platform would be pretty interesting.

 

[Oof85]

Just to be clear, I do not measure the current state of the industry based on fucking feelings..

No time in the industry have we NOT had layoffs, using this odd logic no time has the industry ever been stable (no fucking industry is stable using this fucking logic)

So if you are looking for some weird perfect utopia type thing where no one gets fired and kumbaya is being sung by the camp fire, maybe you don't have a place actually measuring the state of the industry.

So sorry man, you want to make some emotional teary argument, about a subject based on objective data.

I show you records broken in sales, you show me tears
I show you record profits made, you show me crying lol
I show you new IP made, you cry more for the ones lost
I show you a new team formed, you cry over the one that closed lol

We are not measuring the same things. You want to cry over this, thus you don't want to use any fucking data cause it breaks your whole narrative.


I can only discuss this with real objective data that can be measured to support or disprove something about the state of the industry.

You're dismissing the numbers I'm giving you, not feelings.

In less than two years we've lost 24k jobs, that's quantifiable data. You shaking your head and going "nope" doesn't change that.

Going back to 2019, I saw that 1500 jobs being lost was a notable data point.

But oh yeah, everything is fine.

Of course there's always someone being let go in any industry but if 24,000 jobs in 19 months aren't an outlier that speaks to industry health, idk what to tell you because the fingers in the ears are blocking me out.

But yeah, be dismissive again.

 

[EDMIX]

You're dismissing the numbers I'm giving you, not feelings.

Even with your edits, it doesn't change that the industry has records profits across all major publishers.

Get over it bud, you are measuring in tears with this thing lol

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

To know whether a new competitor will enter the console market we first need to know historically who entered and how they entered.

In the 90s the console market was Sega and Nintendo but trying to explore a transition window 3 new competitors emerged Atari, 3DO and Sony.

Atari had little money and no games.
3DO also didn't have a lot of money and invested in third party manufacturing (which was a mistake because the company embedded its profits in hardware, a system opposite to the traditional model where profits were in games).
Sony, Sony had the money and they had the hardware. So Namco served as the first party for a few years.

After this phase, Microsoft decided to enter the sixth generation and spent a lot of money to do so.
Only in 2014 did we have another attempt, this time Valve made Steam Machines with the help of partners, using 3DO's business model.

As we can see, money is important but it's not everything, ideas like ''making a console without exclusives'' doesn't work.

Who can enter?
a company with money and the ability to attract a publisher to serve as ''namco'' or a company that already has know-how like Nintendo itself.

Xbox 360 was the best competitor that Playstation and needs to be the model for anyone who wants to compete with Sony.

 

[Ian Henry]

To know whether a new competitor will enter the console market we first need to know historically who entered and how they entered.

In the 90s the console market was Sega and Nintendo but trying to explore a transition window 3 new competitors emerged Atari, 3DO and Sony.

Atari had little money and no games.
3DO also didn't have a lot of money and invested in third party manufacturing (which was a mistake because the company embedded its profits in hardware, a system opposite to the traditional model where profits were in games).
Sony, Sony had the money and they had the hardware. So Namco served as the first party for a few years.

After this phase, Microsoft decided to enter the sixth generation and spent a lot of money to do so.
Only in 2014 did we have another attempt, this time Valve made Steam Machines with the help of partners, using 3DO's business model.

As we can see, money is important but it's not everything, ideas like ''making a console without exclusives'' doesn't work.

Who can enter?
a company with money and the ability to attract a publisher to serve as ''namco'' or a company that already has know-how like Nintendo itself.

Xbox 360 was the best competitor that Playstation and needs to be the model for anyone who wants to compete with Sony.

I think Samsung and Tencent fits that description imo

 

[IDKFA]

I think Samsung and Tencent fits that description imo

Amazon as well.

They already produce electronic devices and have dipped their toe into the gaming market.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I hope they don’t leave and I’d rather they had people there who were more believing in the console market and more efficient , resulting in a much better Xbox.

Doubtful I know but that’s what I’d to see happen.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

No matter who enters, the first step is to buy a publisher like Ubisoft.Without a company with known games and market penetration, no way.
Creating your own games is a time-consuming and expensive process so a better strategy is to license celebrities or famous characters.

 

[AJUMP23]

Samsung. They have the money and the infrastructure.

 

[Kvally]

Been thinking about a couple of recent things regarding Xbox and the near future state of the console wars

- Xbox rumoured to potentially be leaving the console space by making the next Xbox a PC

- Phil Spencer saying they lost the worst generation due to gen 8 being the one where customers invested heavily in digital libraries

For me this makes it seem unlikely that any newcomer could compete with Sony and Nintendo in this space now, it seems to late. The likes of Samsung or Tencent would be building a games library from scratch

Valve tried with Steamboxes, but open PC gaming on a closed console-like system isn’t practical due to the multitude of PC configurations

This leaves only one possibility for me…

Apple

- Macs, iPads and iPhones are already like console’s closed systems whereby games are more tailored to limited configs of hardware

- More games are being developed that run across Mac, iPhone and iPad (universal play)

- Apple TV with M silicon chips could potentially run all the above games

- Apple already have fanboys (outside gaming anyway)


What do you guys think?

Could someone new fill the gap, or would Sony and Nintendo just grow to fill it instead?

Lol, you are too funny.

 

[Maogp]

Nvidia.

 

[Deerock71]

I've very rarely ever thought a piece of hardware was about perfect, but then I got my hands on a Steam Deck OLED. It...it's almost perfect.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I voted none, but sega could make a comeback.

It's possible, maybe they're already in the process of returning to the market with the Super Game. Many users don't know but Super System was the name of a secret Sega hardware project that a fanboy leaked in 2010/2011, before you ask me, I repeat he only leaked the codename SuperSystem and nothing else Maybe it's just a coincidence that the Super Game has a similar name to the SuperSystem who knows.

 

[HogIsland]

I've very rarely ever thought a piece of hardware was about perfect, but then I got my hands on a Steam Deck OLED. It...it's almost perfect.

even though i mostly use it to play Rocket League, it's always thrumming with the power of the entire history of gaming going back to the 90s. anything they do to make it more powerful, more portable, etc will just be minor tweaks by comparison.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

apple + nvidia + sega

 

[KiteGr]

Nah... Consoles are dieing in general.

The more their differences with PC becomes blurry, the more people see no reason to bother with them.
I mean... What does consoles give you compared to PC.

• Physical games? Not any more! Even retail disks requires ten patches to function.
• Easy interface? Nope! All console games nowadays require installation and tweaks, while PC simplifies the procedure by the day.
• Controller support? Fat chance. Unless there is some rare gimmick, PC supports most console controllers.
• Online support? The opposite! Steam online and cloud saving is free while consoles increase their subscriptions.
• Couch gameplay? That's on you! You are the one choosing to put your PC on a Desk and your Console on your central TV.
• Pure experience? The opposite! On PC you can mod the censorship out of the game.
• Exclusives? Ha! Most come to PC eventually, and those that do not get emulated.
• Backwards compatibility? Never existed as a concept. At most you'll get incompatibility with some old hardware that can be bypassed with tweaking.
• Price? Don't be fooled. On PC you're paying a higher initial price (unless you're buying a steam deck) but after that, everything is cheaper than consoles.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

There wouldn't be any "void" Where is it written that there must be three console makers active at all times? If anything PC would just become even more popular.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Where is Tiger Electronics?

 

[MrJangles]

I think the scene is set for Atari to make its (27th) triumphant return to the console industry.

Centipede 4k and Missile Command 4k on the VCS-X, bring it on!

 

[Jaybe]

I think we’d need to look at which company had an existing ecosystem they benefit from extending and hopefully there is a differentiation or innovation they can bring along with their entry.

With Microsoft, they seemed to really stop innovating on the console side at least, no haptics in the controller, no Pro, no VR, no Portal-like hardware. It’s like they did the least they could possibly do this generation.

as for others.
Apple already had a strong ecosystem and an app on many products. I think they could do cloud-based, but also think a tailored iOS console like device that casts could be received well.

Valve with a Steam box of some sort would be great.

Meta already does the Quest so there may be more they can expand.

Amazon just hired a veteran guy from Xbox, they have Twitch and the Luna service. Their big gap is the ecosystem as all the keys they provide are for other ecosystems currently.

Epic, in theory they should have some incentive with Fortnite and other properties and the epic game store to drive purchases. They are basically winning with many developers moving to Unreal engine and getting a cut there in sales.

 

[sainraja]

Microsoft should refocus and fully embrace the position they find themselves in, instead of "testing" the waters with some games exclusive and some not—just make them available on any/all platforms. They have focused on the PC for a while with porting games there since Xbox One generation so make the PC their primary platform and improve their store. They should continue to work out Game Pass related deals and should consider having a conversation on it with Sony again. They should not abandon the Xbox brand, but re-vitalize it. They have an Xbox app on PC, just work on making it like steam. They can still work on PC like console boxes that are designed for the TV playing a collection of games and they can control and communicate compatibility by year of release (e.g. Game Collection 2024, 2025, etc etc).

I think focusing this heavily on streaming right now is a bit premature (or maybe I am wrong and this is the perfect time for them to push into streaming and get a lead there), I guess we will see.

 

[JimboJones]

Google and Apple don't get gaming at all so they are out.

Epic or Valve I think could make a decent stab at it

They understand gaming but I think Valve has found their niche in Steamdeck and promoting PC handhelds using proton, maybe they will move onto low form factor PCs in the future.

EPIC I just don't think they have the interest.

Samsung and Tencent (and Tencent?) I don't know, my gut says Samsung would be similar to Google.

 

[HogIsland]

Google and Apple don't get gaming at all so they are out.

Epic or Valve I think could make a decent stab at it

They understand gaming but I think Valve has found their niche in Steamdeck and promoting PC handhelds using proton, maybe they will move onto low form factor PCs in the future.

EPIC I just don't think they have the interest.

Samsung and Tencent (and Tencent?) I don't know, my gut says Samsung would be similar to Google.

Google did a lot better than Apple ever has in making Stadia a gaming brand, creating a first party, bringing in established leaders (say what you will about them...), and they failed massively. That makes me seriously doubt Apple or Amazon or Netflix stand a chance in gaming.

Epic took a gamble that they could make huge profits just by making a bare minimum store front, and they were thankfully proven wrong. They have no ability to follow Valve's example with Linux and the only other path for Epic as a platform-holder would be to partner deeply with Microsoft.

Samsung is dogshit at software and will go down in flames if they try to establish a platform. They could be an excellent partner with Valve on hardware, but they don't have capacity to be a 1st party.

Valve are the only ones who seriously invest in the long term improvement of their platform. There was no obvious profit motive to making a highly sophisticated input mapping system, or supporting linux at < 1% market share, but these are pillars of their future plans. Steam Deck brought everything together in one excellent package, and it's just the first example. Proton has effectively decoupled "PC Gaming" from "Windows Gaming", and that opens up so many new opportunities for them going forward.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I’d say Valve are the only ones that have a platform that could replace Xbox

But just look at Steamdeck, it’s been on the market for nearly 3 years and has sold what, 3 million units? And that during a time when the Switch has been aging and aging badly. I’m not sure what Valve’s sales targets or ambitions were but that’s surely a flop? And any momentum it does have will seriously be hurt when Switch 2 arrives next year.

Also, wouldn’t a Valve home console face the same issues as Xbox with every game being available on PC anyway?

Once you weigh up the pros and cons you just can’t see anyone changing the status quo.

 

[SABRE220]

Apple has the resources and a ridiculously strong brand and customer base(evangelists) to basically breakthrough in the market. The question is will they be able to make the smart business decisions and have the patience to grow a dev base? If they remain patient then yes they can become a player in the market but again a big if.

Valve is another obvious choice but they seem happy to specialize in their niche and don't like expand beyond their comfort zone. Also they have really gone backward in terms of actually developing games and ips. Not sure they have it in them to develop ips and dev studios. They also dont have the massive resources like apple and microsoft to brute force their way through into the market and make a splash.

 

[Crayon]

DARPA?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Apple (for now) already makes more money on gaming than the rest of the platform holders combined.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Apple has the resources and a ridiculously strong brand and customer base(evangelists) to basically breakthrough in the market. The question is will they be able to make the smart business decisions and have the patience to grow a dev base? If they remain patient then yes they can become a player in the market but again a big if.

Apple tick a lot of boxes

- already have a platform (App store games)
- already have the hardware (M series chips)
- already have the cool brand awareness
- already a media company with Apple TV originals
- already capable of manufacturing and distributing hardware globally on a mass scale

I think the only real blockers are…

Price - would they change their philosophy and sell the hardware at a loss like Sony

Developers - they already have relationships with publishers, but they’d likely have to buy someone like EA and make the games exclusive to get a big enough USP

 

[JimboJones]

Google did a lot better than Apple ever has in making Stadia a gaming brand.

I honestly would have bought games from Stadia if they just offered a download option alongside their streaming service.
I didn't mind it as a store front but streaming as the only option really killed it for me.
They went that weird route of running everything on Linux though, which is funny because with proton now they probably wouldn't have had to try so hard to port native Linux versions for their service.

I’d say Valve are the only ones that have a platform that could replace Xbox

But just look at Steamdeck, it’s been on the market for nearly 3 years and has sold what, 3 million units? And that during a time when the Switch has been aging and aging badly. I’m not sure what Valve’s sales targets or ambitions were but that’s surely a flop? And any momentum it does have will seriously be hurt when Switch 2 arrives next year.

Also, wouldn’t a Valve home console face the same issues as Xbox with every game being available on PC anyway?

Once you weigh up the pros and cons you just can’t see anyone changing the status quo.

I don't think you can measure the steamdeck success in the same way as a traditional console.
I don't think it's steams intention to sell 90millions of them (although I don't think they'd be unhappy if it did).
I think there happy as it more like a popular reference model for other manufacturers to copy or take inspiration from and grow the PC handheld space. At the end of the day more PC handhelds out there will mean more users accessing their store.
It's the model MS would probably kill for

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Valve is in favor of an open platform, a fundamental requirement for flopping in the console world.
Sorry for bursting the bubble

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I think the main issue is that with AAA dying, there might not be much of a point.

 

[Ian Henry]

Amazon as well.

They already produce electronic devices and have dipped their toe into the gaming market.

I agree with that. Looks like Amazon is creeping on the come up

 

[Eliciel]

What's incredible to me is how a competitor can not outshine another, when they have essentially hidden in a hole for almost an entire year. If you cannot advance and leverage THAT absence, I think nothing can help you.
To me MS is a game service company - didn't they call it "ECOSYSTEM". They are exactly that, they are an ecosystem..you better not call them Console again.

 

[HogIsland]

Valve is in favor of an open platform, a fundamental requirement for flopping in the console world.
Sorry for bursting the bubble

Valve: makers of Steam, a closed platform.

not that i agree with the premise

 

[snapdragon]

It's possible, maybe they're already in the process of returning to the market with the Super Game. Many users don't know but Super System was the name of a secret Sega hardware project that a fanboy leaked in 2010/2011, before you ask me, I repeat he only leaked the codename SuperSystem and nothing else Maybe it's just a coincidence that the Super Game has a similar name to the SuperSystem who knows.

Sega is still a company worth a fraction of nintendo or Sony and has spent much if the 21st century sitting on dormant IP's and mismanaging many of its current ones, the last few years they have been vastly improving as a company so I hope that trend continues. Personally I would like to see a console manufactured by some larger tech company but is branded and developed for by sega.

 

[snapdragon]

Where is Tiger Electronics?

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Sega is still a company worth a fraction of nintendo or Sony and has spent much if the 21st century sitting on dormant IP's and mismanaging many of its current ones, the last few years they have been vastly improving as a company so I hope that trend continues. Personally I would like to see a console manufactured by some larger tech company but is branded and developed for by sega.

God I’d love to replace Xbox Series with a Dreamcast 4 that has Sonic, Virtua Fighter, Jet Set Radio, Shinobi etc all at their peak and selling healthily.

But that’s never going to happen and any attempt to do so would be a disaster.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Sega is still a company worth a fraction of nintendo or Sony and has spent much if the 21st century sitting on dormant IP's and mismanaging many of its current ones, the last few years they have been vastly improving as a company so I hope that trend continues. Personally I would like to see a console manufactured by some larger tech company but is branded and developed for by sega.

I know that when talking about Sega, analyzes are never neutral, there are those who see the glass as half full and those who see the glass as half empty.

Sega was always worth less than other companies even in the 90s and that didn't stop Sega from making a fortune with the Sega Genesis and Sonic. We are in a topic where we see that money is one of the points in this equation, Microsoft and Google have shown this to the world.
Currently Sega is richer than before and has a greater flow of game sales.

 

[VolticArchangel]

 

[Chronicle]

Sony

 

[poppabk]

The only one I can think of is Meta, but just VR headset 'consoles' not a traditional console. They already have 10s of millions of headsets out there and are pursuing the exclusive angle heavily this time around, ditching PC versions of their games.

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

The void isn’t that big at this current point.

If this was the 360 era it would be a concern but if Valve were to come out with a Steam machine tomorrow I would buy it.