Support NeoGAF

[jm89]

You have to be some kind of stupid to think a company as smart as Valve hadn't already locked in a contract for RAM supplies, before prices blew up....

They may have.

But valve are still new to this hardware game, and nothing in their past makes them automatically smart to have locked down RAM supplies.

 

[Zacfoldor]

 

[Cakeboxer]

Cooler/RAM/MB/PS are overkill/overpriced.

 

[existensmaximum]

A small HTPC that has SteamOS. The PC I'm talking about is larger but it's still an ITX build as well. With Windows FSE, Steam Big Picture mode, or Bazzite you can get about the same experience.

But regardless, the point I originally made still stands, you don't need to spend 1.1k at the moment to get a PC that beats or matches the Steam Machine in specs.

I'm actually speechless over your lack of understanding how this is actually a very, very different experience. You're talking about two totally different target demographics here.

Whatever, there's no point in explaining this apparently

 

[amigastar]

The Steam Machine is fine but why only 8GB VRAM?

 

[crackajack]

And people think this is going to be 700 dollars especially when valve said they aren't subsidizing it.

not subsidizing does not mean they will add a usual profit margin though.

mini ITX might be expensive, but Valve should get a decent price on their custom solution. Same as SFF PCs do with often completely arbitrary form factors. Unifying cooling for CPU and GPU saves also some bucks. And 750W for a console like PC, the usual 250W SFF PC from HP won't do either, but 750 is a joke, right?
So some pennies here and there in a bulk product and they might accept a paper thin margin for themselves, then 700 is kinda possible, now. Unless RAM (and SSD) or something skyrockets even more.
Quick search tells me you can get a HP or Lenovo SFF PC for around 700-800€ plus a GPU. Though I can't say that their power supplies will survive a good enough GPU addition. At most possibly an RX6400 (or RTX 3050). Which is more equivalent than a self built smallish PC. And also kinda the same price. I guess a low price can only be achieved if they remove their own margin and all suppliers agree to very thin profits.

 

[Zathalus]

I'm actually speechless over your lack of understanding how this is actually a very, very different experience. You're talking about two totally different target demographics here.

Whatever, there's no point in explaining this apparently

The only difference is that one boots directly into SteamOS and comes with a controller, and the other boots into Windows and doesn't come with one. Sure, the Steam Machine is probably easier to initially use with a standard TV, but it's still a Linux PC running Proton so throw any illusions about easy and seamless out of the window.

But that's besides my original point (one you completely ignore in your rush to insult me) is that the hardware for a similar specced (actually more powerful) PC is not nearly as high as the original article claims. "But, but SteamOS" bitch, who the fuck cares when I'm directly addressing the price of similar hardware.

 

[Poppinfresh]

I'm actually speechless over your lack of understanding how this is actually a very, very different experience. You're talking about two totally different target demographics here.

Bazzite is essentially the exact same experience as SteamOS.

I'd also argue that while it's not 1:1 the same experience, something like CachyOS is superior to SteamOS

 

[amigastar]

I have the feeling the Steam Machine won't go more expensive than 999 Bucks

 

[Ziglax]

The original post misses the mark completely, the form factor is the number 1 argument of the Steam machine, and it's not easy to make a mini ITX PC that compact. It is possible however to make something slightly bigger and with much more horsepower.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Gaming laptops are ergonomic abominations - huge, weight a ton and have shitty "gamerz" aesthetic.

Plug it into the TV and play with a controller from the sofa. Problem solved.
I guess you've never used a gaming laptop to say something like that.

 

[calistan]

I feel like building your own PC to a similar or better spec is just kind of missing the point of the device. Looks and form factor matter here. The target market doesn't want a fucking Coolermaster mini-tower visible under their TV lmao.

They want this:

Actually, the target market doesn't want to even build a PC at all!

What sort of a monster places his TV like that? Disgusting.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

The Steam Machine is fine but why only 8GB VRAM?

Because that's all Valve could afford to buy and build. But their excuse is that 70% of Steam PCs have inferior specs, but I ask, in India or the United States? Because the Steam Machine will be sold only in the US.

 

[Hyet]

I don't think the specs are the whole product, but OK
I also wonder, if this is where we're at with this kind of machine, how much is the 'new, premium premium' XBOX.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Plug it into the TV and play with a controller from the sofa. Problem solved.
I guess you've never used a gaming laptop to say something like that.

why would i like to have a giant ass laptop sitting next to my TV with cables running everywhere? My TV is mounted on the wall, above the piano. I want less clutter, not more.

 

[SNG32]

why would i like to have a giant ass laptop sitting next to my TV with cables running everywhere? My TV is mounted on the wall, above the piano. I want less clutter, not more.

I swear some of you are clueless on gaming laptops. This ain't the early 2010s gaming laptops are a lot thinner now and less bulky. It's the same fuckin thing as a ps5 an hdmi cable and a plug and probably the same as a steam machine. You can even play with the lid closed on some of them and they look like a console. I have a 3070 gaming laptop and it's sits perfectly next to my PS5 when I want to hook it up to my tv.

 

[Senua]

I swear some of you are clueless on gaming laptops. This ain't the early 2010s gaming laptops are a lot thinner now and less bulky. It's the same fuckin thing as a ps5 an hdmi cable and a plug and probably the same as a steam machine. You can even play with the lid closed on some of them and they look like a console. I have a 3070 gaming laptop and it's sits perfectly next to my PS5 when I want to hook it up to my tv.

Just make sure you have a desk fan pointed towards it

 

[Horseganador]

Last year they were making news stories to show that you could build a PC more powerful than a PS5 pro for less money, now they give you a quote to match a Steam Machine (which doesn't even reach a base PS5 according to DF and costs you almost $1200 xDD).

 

[rm082e]

No one uses AMD. The should offer and Nvidia variant

AMD is perfectly fine. Their graphics hardware powers the Xbox and PlayStation. For a budget machine, AMD has almost always been the better choice.

 

[Fabieter]

Ease of use is the reason why consoles continue to have appeal. You could distil it down further and just say Valve wants the console market.

So they are direct competition to the big three now? Interesting.

 

[Topher]

Because that's all Valve could afford to buy and build.

That has nothing to do with what valve can "afford".

The Steam Machine is fine but why only 8GB VRAM?

To keep the price low

 

[amigastar]

No one uses AMD. The should offer and Nvidia variant

Yeah, they should. maybe with nvidia neural texture compression 8 gigs of VRAM would be enough in the future.

 

[scydrex]

Why a 7600? The B580 12gb for $10 more or the 9600xt are better options. Also mini itx board and the case is micro atx? Choose a cheaper micro atx and spend that extra money on the GPU or save it. If he choose an itx board then use an itx case. The PSU for that hardware is a lot but at least the article say it.

 

[amigastar]

That has nothing to do with what valve can "afford".



To keep the price low

Can't argue with that, still i think they should have gone with 12 Gigs even if it would be more expensive but maybe that was not possible otherwise they would have done it.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

I like that they didn't make the parts list ridiculous by throwing in some cheap ass CPU cooler or something just to bring the price down a couple bucks. This list looks somewhat realistic. Prices are absolute garbage, though. Bad time to build.

 

[RoboFu]

Price of dram will greatly affect how much this thing will be.

 

[PlayStaytion]

The only people I see buying this is affluent pc enthusiast who like the idea of a small easy box they can plug into their big TV and maybe play some of their casual controller like games.

Or gaben loyalists. It's too complicated for casuals and console kids. Your average pc gamer would be mad to buy this over upgrading their current pc.

Less market than the steamdeck basically.

I'm fine with Micro ATX chassis as long there's room for fat graphic cards like the ones from Asus or Zotac.

 

[Aenima]

IGN is using alot of expensive for no reason PC parts. You can use a stock cooler instead of 80$ cooler, the SSD is also one of the most expensive models you can get, the PSU is overkill (Steam machine uses a 300W PSU) and also much more expensive than other ones available. Same for Ram.

My guess, and because the price hike of the memory, is that will cost around 800$.

 

[Topher]

Can't argue with that, still i think they should have gone with 12 Gigs even if it would be more expensive but maybe that was not possible otherwise they would have done it.

With the way things are going, I think 8GB very well may remain the baseline for PCs for a while, unfortunately. 5060 remains the most popular GPU for PC gamers and it is still 8GB so if Valve is trying to hit that same segment with competitive pricing then 8GB makes sense. And fact of the matter is that Steam Machine was never designed for PC gaming enthusiasts in the first place. That's why there is so much pushback here, but most PC gamers are going to wince at a $1000 price point a heck of a lot more than they are 8GB vram.

 

[Topher]

IGN is using alot of expensive for no reason PC parts. You can use a stock cooler instead of 80$ cooler, the SSD is also one of the most expensive models you can get, the PSU is overkill (Steam machine uses a 300W PSU) and also much more expensive than other ones available. Same for Ram.

My guess, and because the price hike of the memory, is that will cost around 800$.

Think you are right

 

[Aenima]

Who is the target market?

Acording to Valve, they created the Steam machine because they saw a good amount of ppl conecting they Steam Deck to the TV. So thats they target audience. Its going to be extremelly niche. If someone wants a cheap gaming device for the living room they can get a console for much cheaper, or can build a small PC that allows them to upgrade or build something actually powerfull.

I expect it to sell much better than they 1st steam machine but i dont see this thing selling more than the Steam Deck. My prediction is that whatever lifetime sales Steam Deck ends up with, the new Steam machine will only reach half of that number.

 

[jshackles]

Acording to Valve, they created the Steam machine because they saw a good amount of ppl conecting they Steam Deck to the TV. So thats they target audience. Its going to be extremelly niche. If someone wants a cheap gaming device for the living room they can get a console for much cheaper, or can build a small PC that allows them to upgrade or build something actually powerfull.

I expect it to sell much better than they 1st steam machine but i dont see this thing selling more than the Steam Deck. My prediction is that whatever lifetime sales Steam Deck ends up with, the new Steam machine will only reach half of that number.

No argument here that the device will be extremely niche, but I do think it'll open up a pathway for someone that wants something more powerful than a Steam Deck (supposedly 6x faster) to connect to their TV, but also have the confidence of Valve's "verified" program to know that they don't have to fiddle with settings or run into issues.

I know most of us here are enthusiasts and can't comprehend someone not wanting to tweak their game's settings to their exact liking, but consoles prove there's a pretty big market out there of people who just want to sit down on the couch, select a game, and start playing. And this will give them that experience while also having free online multiplayer and the ability to buy digital games for mega cheap.

 

[darrylgorn]

Who is the target market?

This is the critical question and I think the answer is that there isn't one.

The more I think about this product, the more it feels like they are actually picking up people who fall in between the conventional demographics. I'd imagine Valve can retain a successful business model by attracting a collection of splinter groups.

 

[SNG32]

Acording to Valve, they created the Steam machine because they saw a good amount of ppl conecting they Steam Deck to the TV. So thats they target audience. Its going to be extremelly niche. If someone wants a cheap gaming device for the living room they can get a console for much cheaper, or can build a small PC that allows them to upgrade or build something actually powerfull.

I expect it to sell much better than they 1st steam machine but i dont see this thing selling more than the Steam Deck. My prediction is that whatever lifetime sales Steam Deck ends up with, the new Steam machine will only reach half of that number.

But even if they see a good amount connecting to the TV it's because it's a hybrid pc and they can do it. Like to me atleast a steam deck makes more sense because of the portability. So it's a pc/console/handheld. This is stationary that's going to be more expensive than a PS5 and won't be able to play as many triple A games as it unless you put windows on it.

 

[Topher]

But even if they see a good amount connecting to the TV it's because it's a hybrid pc and they can do it. Like to me atleast a steam deck makes more sense because of the portability. So it's a pc/console/handheld. This is stationary that's going to be more expensive than a PS5 and won't be able to play as many triple A games as it unless you put windows on it.

If someone is fine with the games available on Steam Deck then they will be fine with the games available on Steam Machine. The issue isn't with AAA games, but anti-cheat specifically. If someone wants to play the games that require anti-cheat then obviously this isn't for them.

 

[dacuk]

It can be done cheaper.



(Sorry, Spanish-only video)

 

[reinking]

Wish people will stop posting this loser's videos

I don't watch him often but came across this. It is easy to not click the video and scroll on.

 

[reinking]

So they theorize 700 $ by ignoring the price of the case and the controller?

I think there is a version of the Steam Machine that will not have the controller. We will have to see what the price of that Steam Machine is before we can get too worked up over price comparisons. I don't really follow Linus but I thought his comparison made more sense than IGNs.

 

[ByWatterson]

LOL, just buy a PS5 Pro.

Submit to Rome.

 

[Poppinfresh]

The issue isn't with AAA games, but anti-cheat specifically. If someone wants to play the games that require anti-cheat then obviously this isn't for them.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Steam is the largest PC storefront. If Valve wanted to solve the SteamOS anti-cheat "problem," they could do so instantly by requiring all games sold on Steam to use an anti-cheat that is compatible with Linux.

Developers wouldn't want to lose the Steam revenue, so they would comply.

Thinking that developers, especially larger ones like EA, etc, will do so without being forced is foolish.

 

[Topher]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Steam is the largest PC storefront. If Valve wanted to solve the SteamOS anti-cheat "problem," they could do so instantly by requiring all games sold on Steam to use an anti-cheat that is compatible with Linux.

Developers wouldn't want to lose the Steam revenue, so they would comply.

Thinking that developers, especially larger ones like EA, etc, will do so without being forced is foolish.

Nah, that's not how Valve does business and personally I wouldn't want them to start dictating shit like that for completely self-serving purposes.

 

[Topher]

I don't watch him often but came across this. It is easy to not click the video and scroll on.

Nothing wrong with posting Linus videos. He has a lot of decent content when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[adamsapple]

To keep the price low

 

[StereoVsn]

Nothing wrong with posting Linus videos. He has a lot of decent content when it comes to stuff like this.

IMO, he really doesn't have anything decent anymore. It's all crap that he can produce as fast as possible and get eyeballs. Quality is gone and it's been gone for years.

 

[StereoVsn]

Nah, that's not how Valve does business and personally I wouldn't want them to start dictating shit like that for completely self-serving purposes.

And this is one of the reasons they have been so successful. Much like with Steam Deck, this is more of a guideline to show how to do GabeCube properly.

We are going to see clones from the usual suspects pretty quick.