shadyspace
Banned
Instro said:
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IGN Posts Up More Project Cafe Hardware Power Rumors
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
From The Dust
Banned
Instro said:
them Nintendo is trying to decieve us! none of this is true! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!
well played, Nintendo. well played
So if I'm understanding the techies in this thread's argument right, despite IGN's suggestion, Cafe should actually be significantly above in practice with dedicated console architecture and when software is optimized for the system? Does this mean Cafe would probably be able to run "true next-gen" games just in somewhat lower settings?
Sorry if I'm way off, I'm just trying to understand this thing.
Sorry if I'm way off, I'm just trying to understand this thing.
AceBandage
Banned
Triton55 said:
It'll be able to run PS4/720 games if that's what you're asking.
I know that this isn't exactly a great test considering it's not a closed system but it is a pretty cool way of trying to get an idea for the power of the machine. Definitely one of the more interesting things that IGN has done in a while. If these specs are accurate they're definitely a bit better than what I was expecting, aside from the RAM which is exactly what I was expecting.
AceBandage
Banned
dwu8991 said:
Hahahaha... Kotaku having sources.
That's funny stuff.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Triton55 said:
That depends. The Wii can run 360/PS3 games with a big graphical hit as long as the game isn't too ambitious. You could theoretically get Assassin's Creed running moderately well on it (See: The PSP game), or GTA IV (GTA series on PS2/XBOX), and we know for a fact that CoD will run on it. The fact that we don't get "current gen games" is more due to the significant work you have to do to modify it to run.
The power gap between Super Wii and X3 / PS4 will not be anywhere near that of Wii vs PS3/360 assuming these specs are close to what we get. This is a 3-5x boost over current gen consoles, and the X3/PS4 are likely to be 8-10x current systems assuming late 2013/early 2014 launch with a very high end system (and a very high priced system). They will probably be twice the power of the Nintendo system, but the 360/PS3 was more like 15x the power of the Wii. Furthermore, thanks to diminishing returns, a system twice the power doesn't look "twice as good", not even close.
SneakyStephan
Banned
ThoseDeafMutes said:
If they can get the equivalent of a hd6950 (200dollar mid-high end gpu right now) in ps4 by 2013 (I'd be dissapointed if we didn't) , that thing is already more than twice as fast a hd4850.
So that already meets your 8x-10x requirement gpu wise.
And that is hardly really high end or high price right now, let alone in two years.
at 1080p that could probably render games that one could consider a proper generational leap above 360.
But how do you even define a generational leap, look at late xbox games vs early 360 games (and even some later 360 games), the difference isn't any bigger than the difference between early 360 games and the best looking 360 and ps3 games right now).
Triton55 said:
Thats the general consensus I believe. Obviously it depends a bit on when the 720/PS4 launch, but its a fair assumption to think that the Cafe will run their multiplatforms just at worse quality. There wont be nearly as many limiting factors as there was with the Wii anyway.
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Its not just the lack of power thats the issue for the Wii really. Its architecture is/was so old(shit its using tech designed in the late 90's) that it is incredibly difficult to port games without drastically changing the engine, which is why its only happened with a few games(i.e. CoD). That wont be the case with this system even though it will be weaker than the next consoles from Sony and MS.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
SneakyStephan said:
6950 level power is about the high end of what I would expect from PS4/X3.
Someone made quite an interesting point about the potential relative power of the cafe compared to the PS3/360. In terms of multi-plat games the cafe could offer definitive versions in terms of a consistent 30/60 fps and true hd resolution of 1080p. But most "hardcore" gamers are actually "dudebro" gamers who don't care/can't tell that the shooters they know and love aren't actually hd or are full of the technical glitches typical of this gen. Only tech gamers, people who post on gaf judging consoles based on cpus, gpus, ram etc will be interested or compelled to buy the cafe because of its tech advantage. I suspect dudebros way outnumber tech gamers by a wide margin.
Ultimately (as is always the case) its gonna be the software not the hardware that will determine whether the cafe can draw in the dudebro crowd. But the question is, what about the cafe version of multi-plat games will draw people to buy it over the version for the consoles they already own? Obviously Nintendo 1st party games will always be the draw for a lot of gamers, but all the "dudebro" gamers I know are instinctively allergic to Nintendo games. I know we've had this discussion a hundred times in the various cafe threads but I'm suddenly interested again in how Nintendo will draw in the "hardcore gamer" crowd.
My take is that Nintendo thinks better/equal graphics and a more competent online system will be enough. I suspect Nintendo will continue to focus on their crowd, longtime fans and casuals, and just hope for a better spread of 3rd party games on the side.
Ultimately (as is always the case) its gonna be the software not the hardware that will determine whether the cafe can draw in the dudebro crowd. But the question is, what about the cafe version of multi-plat games will draw people to buy it over the version for the consoles they already own? Obviously Nintendo 1st party games will always be the draw for a lot of gamers, but all the "dudebro" gamers I know are instinctively allergic to Nintendo games. I know we've had this discussion a hundred times in the various cafe threads but I'm suddenly interested again in how Nintendo will draw in the "hardcore gamer" crowd.
My take is that Nintendo thinks better/equal graphics and a more competent online system will be enough. I suspect Nintendo will continue to focus on their crowd, longtime fans and casuals, and just hope for a better spread of 3rd party games on the side.
Its not just the lack of power thats the issue for the Wii really. Its architecture is/was so old(shit its using tech designed in the late 90's) that it is incredibly difficult to port games without drastically changing the engine, which is why its only happened with a few games(i.e. CoD). That wont be the case with this system even though it will be weaker than the next consoles from Sony and MS.[/QUOTE]
What difference does triple core gpu mean?
What difference does triple core gpu mean?
brochiller
Member
artwalknoon said:
My take on it is that Nintendo is catering more to third party developers this time around. In the past they have often developed hardware from the inside out, in that they develop it based on what the want and hope that outside developers make quality software for whatever they come out with. This time, as they've shown with the Classic Controller Pro and the 3DS, they may be taking a different approach where they develop hardware (and controllers) based on input from what third party developers want. This will ensure them that they at least get the third party games they need, and if they do it right maybe even some third party exclusives, that they can expand their audience with.
And who know, maybe whatever special feature Nintendo has planned for the controller actually will be cool enough to attract gamers who wouldn't have otherwise purchased a Nintendo system. With the Wii, they did something very difficult in that they got people who never played video games to pick up a console. With the Cafe, they may have an even more difficult task ahead of them in trying to take brand loyal consumers away from Sony and Microsoft.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Yeah, but what I was saying is that 6950 isn't really the high end now on pc (despite the misleading name, a 6950 is just the new x850 line) ,a gtx570 is much more powerful , not to mention the enthousiast stuff like crossfire set ups , 6990 or 580 or even gtx590.ThoseDeafMutes said:
By the time the ps4 is released it will be near the low end scale of graphics cards in both performance and price, just like the 4850 is right now.
I forsee the 6950 going down in value much faster than the the 48xx series did, those cards aged well because of the dissapointing 6xxx series and relatively small upgrade that the 58xx series was (at least if you compare it to the difference between the hd38xx and 48xx).
The 7xxx series will be 28nm cards so the difference will be significant, making the 6850 look aged really quickly.
It's a miracle that a 4850 is still worth like 50 dollars second hand and 80 new after all these years.
AceBandage
Banned
It's not so much value, but Wattage usage that's a problem.
This comparison really isn't very accurate. Consoles tend to have less robust processors when compared to the respective PC processors, while consoles are also dealing with far less software under the hood (in that they don't need to deal with an entire OS running in the background).
Price is pretty much irrelevant. Power consumption/ TDP is the elephant in the room - current high end GPUs consume significantly more power than high end GPUs from 2005. Unless Sony and MS go for massive aluminum cases and water cooling, there's no chance in hell they'll use anything currently considered "high end" on the PC side of things even two or three years down the line. I said it once and I'll say it again: You need about 1kW, or 1,000W, to run Samaritan right now. That's five times the power consumption of a launch PS3.SneakyStephan said:
brochiller said:
I agree this is gonna be a very interesting part of the console to look forward to. No doubt the cafe will have one or a few surprise/market disruptive features. As you say the question is whether this new gimmick will attract 360 and PS3 gamers or alienate them the way the wii's motion controls did. Though I have read very convincing arguments that the Wii's graphical power was the greater turn off than the motion controls, (though the lack of a second analog for fps was also a very big deal for most gamers).
SneakyStephan
Banned
wsippel said:
That's only the case because they are still stuck with the 40nm procede isn't it?
Pushing it way too far.
Nvidia and ati are both making the switch to 28 nm this year, pushing power consumption WAY down.
By 2013 if it still uses a 40nm gpu that would just be plain stupid of them, pc gpu's will be on the 22 nm procede by then.
If it's viable to launch mobile phones and pc cpu's at 32nm already then it sure as hell should be viable to use a 28 nm gpu by then.
shadyspace
Banned
artwalknoon said:
The screen should be superior to motion controls in this regard because it's a cool, supplementary gimmick to compliment a standard button and stick suite as opposed to the total replacement of the standard that the Wiimote was.
bgassassin
Member
donny2112 said:
That could be it as well, which if that were the case I would question their understanding of how current gen consoles and beyond will have their graphical capabilities determined.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Hopefully Cafe can get a 4850 varant on 28nm and not consume more than 150W Total.
From The Dust
Banned
apana said:
yes
SneakyStephan
Banned
artwalknoon said:
If the xbox live cod cliche is anything to go by then it would be akward slapping/pawing fights by underdeveloped 12 year olds with a voice like a thousand nails on a thousand chalkboards.
Aka dudebrats *Tm.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Doesn't IGN's sources say it'll be a custom R700? I know we all know what the R700 line is by now, but I'm very curious about what kind of custom features might be on it. The 3DS GPU for example uses a weaker version of the PICA supporting only OpenGL 1.1 (or something like that) but with fix function 1.2 effects added in. So now the chip uses less power, yet still capable of doing advance effects.
Personally, I'm hoping for better tessellation hardware. I just like things rounded without the polygonal look.
Or perhaps a combination of fixed function pipeline for more "expensive" DX11 effects. So you'd have a card born to do DX10.1, but also support for DX11 effects without adding more cost to the chip.
Personally, I'm hoping for better tessellation hardware. I just like things rounded without the polygonal look.
Or perhaps a combination of fixed function pipeline for more "expensive" DX11 effects. So you'd have a card born to do DX10.1, but also support for DX11 effects without adding more cost to the chip.
brochiller
Member
Krowley said:
Do you think Nintendo would actually let the press see some games before E3 with a new console reveal though? I can see it happening if it was a secret Wii game, or a console that was already out, but with a new system reveal I don't see them telling anybody anything until E3.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Krowley said:
Not for hardware. Games sure, but i cant remember the last time a magazine got a new generation hardware cover story.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Anyone think they will show off a "real" big named game at E3(early stage) or will it be tech demos for people to see what the system can do????
AceBandage
Banned
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
Well, devs have had the system for just under a year, so we should see games in a pretty good stage of development right now.
brochiller
Member
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
Well it's going to be playable, so I assume they're going to have something big to play and not just tech demos. I'm really hoping for a new IP they can build off of in the future. Maybe it will be Retro's project, maybe somebody else, but I want to see Nintendo take a risk a make a big budget game that isn't built off of an existing franchise.
artwalknoon said:
I honestly think they're going to try making some games particularly aimed at the so-called "dudebros" crowd. These may even come from a 3rd party that they're paying to make the game for them, like the way they paid sega to make the GC F-zero, or the way they paid Team Ninja to make the Metroid game. Some team with real expertise in genres that nintendo doesn't specialize in (FPS, third person shooter, arcadey action beatemup, and others).
I just can't see nintendo suddenly making an awesome FPS with an internal studio, unless they buy a new studio.
Retro is the only internal studio that I could almost see doing that, although, to me, the worst prime game is the one with the most focus on shooting/action (prime 3), and the best is the one with the most focus on adventure elements (prime 1)
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
I think they will show multiple real big games including at many from 3rd parties, hopefully playable along with trailers or at least screenshots. If the system is easy to develop for, as rumors suggest, and will be releasing in the earlier part of 2012 then games should be pretty far along already.
Cow Mengde
Banned
antonz said:
Really? I didn't know that. I pretty much stopped caring after DX9. I could have sworn DX11 added tessellation, didn't it? Or at least better support for it, right? More efficient is always a good thing.
11 is honestly alot of improvements on existing tech from 10.1Cow Mengde said:
10 was flawed in alot of ways so never gained traction nevermind the fact developers didnt want to drop 9. 11 makes the flaws in 10 basically gone.
I mean Nintendo sticking with 10.1 still means shader 4.1 instead of Shader 5.0 but thats not gonna be a system killer deal