HashtagLapsed
Member
Ultima VII beat out Skyrim.
Sometimes it is about the little victories.
Sometimes it is about the little victories.
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IGN's Top 100 RPGs of All Time
- Thread starter ULTROS!
- Start date
Thanks for the reply. What do you think of what I actually argued though? I made many points about how the points don't get at what is core to what an RPG is or how they don't separate RPGs from most other types of games.
The hard part about this is defining the RPG genre is more complex than looking at its origins. It also requires not holding on too firmly to what one thinks is an RPG and using the criteria to confirm what one already thought.
GAF is great. But there's a whole world out there of games writers who discuss and think about this these all the time (not just when a thread pops up).
They pulled names ouf of a hat. Do you really want a podcast for that?
There can be no other explanation for Star Ocean 2 being above FFX.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I think you made an excellent argument, with insights that I should have probably stopped to consider more thoroughly. I had skimmed your post and made my original response to you based on how I felt that that list, at face value, pretty much delineated 'rpgs' and 'non-rpgs' the way I would have. but I'm reconsidering.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Trails in the sky FC deserves to be on that list. Xenoblade and Xenogears deserve to be higher on the list. At least top 25.
That's a still a limited definition, table Top RPGs have evolved just as much as their console and computer counterparts. Things like "Dogs in the Vineyard " or "Fiasco" are fairly far removed from what Dungeons and Dragons does, but I'd argue are very much RPGs. (and in fact the D&D in the little brown books and and 5th edition D&D are also fairly different beasts.)
Polish FolkHero
Neo Member
Roger that! I'm working my way through with a fresh save. I remember beating several bosses 1hp at a time, if not for the beautiful art direction and sexy style I'd have givin up completely.
Chrono Trigger has to be the most overrated game in history. I've tried 3 or 4 times now and I can't beat it. Got to the final boss last time before just losing the will to keep pushing. The characters are impossibly flat, one note messes. The story is boring as absolute shit. The combat is fine and completely unspectacular.
Granted, I didn't play it back in the day, but now, there is absolutely nothing compelling about it in any way. It's mind-boggling to see it rated so highly everywhere.
Granted, I didn't play it back in the day, but now, there is absolutely nothing compelling about it in any way. It's mind-boggling to see it rated so highly everywhere.
I played it for the first time last year and couldn't disagree more. Imo it's timeless
I don't even like the game and I disagree. It does a lot of things very well.
FF VI, on the other hand...
isaacnukem
Member
Star Ocean 2 is better than Final Fantasy X. There, I said it.
Another good tally would be JRPGs vs. WRPGs
66 - Pool of Radiance
This was my first RPG when I was in 6th grade. I am 41 almost 42 now. I was happy to see it on the list even though the gameplay doesn't hold up anymore. Curse of the Azure Bonds was also good.
I played on an Apple //c for any other old people out there that played them. I had a good friend that played them on a Laser 128 which was a //c clone and the colors were way off but it was the same game so still cool. Shout out to you Corey if you are on GAF.
This was my first RPG when I was in 6th grade. I am 41 almost 42 now. I was happy to see it on the list even though the gameplay doesn't hold up anymore. Curse of the Azure Bonds was also good.
I played on an Apple //c for any other old people out there that played them. I had a good friend that played them on a Laser 128 which was a //c clone and the colors were way off but it was the same game so still cool. Shout out to you Corey if you are on GAF.
Yep.
MagnoSauce
Member
FF6 and CT aren't the greatest for me at all. The list makes me think, gee, I wonder what era the writers grew up in?
Head of Vengarl
Banned
ScaryShark
Banned
Some very deep analysis here. I'm really glad I get to read yet another post on GAF that uses 'shit' as a descriptor.
CT is one of the most important RPGs of all time. It pushed forward a genre that at the time, personally, felt stale. The way it changed up random encounters, introducing New Game+ which so many games take for granted and is a staple of the entire genre now, the time travel narrative broke up the narrative and monotony that could set in with games of this length and type.
I think Chrono Trigger has aged much more gracefully than a lot of games on this list that are much younger. It will remain accessible to a wide range of people forever and yet has loads of depth for those that really want to engage with it. The music and look of the game is timeless and won't ever be burdened by gimmicks or annoyances that a lot of these games posssess
Lists like these are highly subjective and near impossible to rank but I think CT is a good and safe #1 and it's a game that will continue to age gracefully and thought highly of.
Defective14
Neo Member
That game is *so* overrated it's not even funny. I will admit that it's historically important to the genre of JRPGs and the SNES era.
FFVI definitely outclasses it on all fronts.
Defective14
Neo Member
The only thing it does well is it's short for a JRPG. That's it.
Have you played FFVI? Genuinely curious.
I realize it's probably time to get around to many of the games on this list. I'm currently playing through Baldur's Gate (been playing it on and off again since release without ever beating it). I'm currently at the final level of Durlag's tower on chapter 7. To say that it has renewed my love for the genre is an understatement.
I need a little bit of a break from Infinity engine games before moving on to BG2 (similar history with that game - even preordered it back then). I've never played an Ultima or Wizardry game before. Where does one start with those if I only want to play the legit great ones?
I need a little bit of a break from Infinity engine games before moving on to BG2 (similar history with that game - even preordered it back then). I've never played an Ultima or Wizardry game before. Where does one start with those if I only want to play the legit great ones?
neurosisxeno
Member
Final Fantasy X not even on the list...
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Z..
Member
FFVII fans never fail to disappoint. Game is good but quite average for it's time yet it must somehow always be very highly rated because it was a pop sensation and therefore influential. It wasn't extraordinary at launch and it remains as unextraordinary today, why should popularity play a part?
Final Fantasy VI completely lacks balance in the battle system, which kills it for me at least.
I think FFs VI-IX are all far too easy, doesn't really affect my enjoyment of them though
I think they simply forgot lol. What a bunch of jokers.
Pokémon is legit great. WoW has no place on the list. MMOs are a different beast entirely.
If you read GAF you are obviously more than just a causal follower of video games and the industry, and have most likely seen other best of all time lists or other reviewer's lists of favorite games which is why it's​ odd to me that so many people are surprised that Mass Effect 2 rated so highly. It was a critical and commercial success and is on every "best of" list there is. If the argument is that it's not an RPG I'd argue it's as every bit an RPG as Dark Souls or Bloodborne.
On another note, the only game that I was hoping would make an appearance on this list (even though I knew it was a long shot) was South Park Stick of Truth. I loved that game. And FFX not anywhere on the list is pretty crazy but it's totally subjective, there are no right or wrong answers
On another note, the only game that I was hoping would make an appearance on this list (even though I knew it was a long shot) was South Park Stick of Truth. I loved that game. And FFX not anywhere on the list is pretty crazy but it's totally subjective, there are no right or wrong answers
Mr.Deadshot
Member
No Dragon's Dogma and no Might & Magic (6) is a crime.
Bloodborne behind Dark Souls and not Top 5 is also false.
Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana are - as always - overrated.
At least Baldur's Gate II is Top 3.
But yeah, opinions ...
Bloodborne behind Dark Souls and not Top 5 is also false.
Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana are - as always - overrated.
At least Baldur's Gate II is Top 3.
But yeah, opinions ...
This is relevant to the dicussion. Nice article about re-learning to love FF7.
http://fingerguns.net/magical-midgar-final-fantasy-vii-is-still-one-of-the-best-games-ever-made
http://fingerguns.net/magical-midgar-final-fantasy-vii-is-still-one-of-the-best-games-ever-made
For Wizardry, if you can handle old visuals and other relics of old PC gaming, start with 6. It is the first of the dark savant trilogy (along with 7 and 8) and lets you transfer your saves across. If not, 8 is probably your best best. If you do play 8, install the mod which speeds up animations.
I'm less knowledgeable about Ultima, but 4 is free on GOG. I know VII is probably the best, and Underworld is also great.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
Wizardry 8 is the last part of a trilogy, but I played it without finishing 6+7. Never played 6, played 7 when it was new a bit, played Wizardry 8 years after release. Wizardry 8 is certainly an amazing game. It holds up very well, even today. Except the graphics, full 3D lacks the charme of older 2D-sprites and looks very ugly today.
Also try the Might & Magic series. World of Xeen (4+5 combined) is a good start. But if that feels too ancient for you, play Might & Magic 6.
Never was a big fan of the Ultima games myself, but Ultima 7 is considered the best.
Online was great, but a different thing. PS2 holds so much nostalgia for me, and that sound track is so incredible, it just seems like a glaring omission.
awilliams213
Member
Good job at #1 Chrono Trigger also glad to see P4Golden get such a high rating. Secret of Mana at #7 is interesting, I loved the SNES version hopefully a new generation of people can experience it on the Switch soon.
Well, just because it's POSSIBLE to beat Dark Souls or some other RPGs at level 1if you're a maniac doesn't really change the point. It's clear that success in everyone's first playthrough, and any playthrough where they aren't deliberately trying to "stretch" the rules of the game, will be determined at least as much by character skill as player skill. Obviously player skill is HUGELY IMPORTANT in a game like Dark Souls, but if something is too hard you can always bounce, level up your character, and return later. That's the key. And that isn't possible in games that aren't RPGs. That's what made it part of our criteria.
Well, while I certainly appreciate your thoughtful reply, I do want to note that this criteria was outline and paraphrased in the intro to the Top 100 RPGs feature itself. Additionally, what I wrote above was the criteria by which we judged whether a game was an RPG or not. It was NOT the criteria by which we evaluated the quality of the games, which included elements of presentation, system interactions, storytelling, and so-on.
And I do thank you again for your thoughtful reply, but when we say we considered combat a requirement in a game for us to consider it an RPG and you reply "combat isn't a requirement" it doesn't really give a discussion much room to grow.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I gotta disagree on this one. While the RPG stuff (levels/stats) definitely makes your character more powerful, the Souls games are more akin to Zelda - you need to move your avatar *well* in order to succeed.
A few extra levels won't make up for being bad at the game.
MarmiteBadger
Member
62 - Breath of Fire III
05 - World of Warcraft
wut.
I understand WoW is super popular, but they didn't bring anything new to the table besides "!" above NPC's heads, imho.
05 - World of Warcraft
wut.
I understand WoW is super popular, but they didn't bring anything new to the table besides "!" above NPC's heads, imho.