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[Krejlooc]

You didn't understand me. You still need to have a key and activate it on Steam before downloading. All DRM-free means on Steam is that you later don't need to use the client to launch. But it still kills any ability to resell your games. So it's stil a form of DRM

You are wrong. You don't need a key nor to activate the games on that list.

The ability to resell your games or not is not what defines DRM. And, technically, there is really nothing keeping you from selling any of the games in that list anyways.

An employee handbook doesn't dictate reality. He absolutely does determine it.

I'm not going off of "an employee handbook." Your fiction isn't reality, no matter how much your gut tells you otherwise.

 

[Qassim]

I still don't understand where this "Valve don't make games!" sentiment is coming from. They didn't release a game in 2014, the first year in probably a decade or more that they've done that, and suddenly Valve no longer makes games!

During this year they've supported their major games like DOTA2 and CSGO with lots of updates, content updates and tournaments. I don't see any other company being blasted for "no making games" because they're not releasing a game every, single, year.

 

[Wiktor]

You are wrong. You don't need a key nor to activate the games on that list.

The ability to resell your games or not is not what defines DRM. And, technically, there is really nothing keeping you from selling any of the games in that list anyways.
.

So you're saying I can download the game from Steam then delete it and resell it and the person who buys it will still be able to download it through Steam?

And no..ability to resell games falls into what DRM is. Any sort of control over what you can do with software after purchase is .

 

[Nome]

I'm not going off of "an employee handbook." Your fiction isn't reality, no matter how much your gut tells you otherwise.

I'd love to know where you're getting your information then. And it's not really my gut, it's from people who have worked at Valve.

 

[Qassim]

As for the whole "Valve acquire their games" nonsense, a post I wrote a while ago:

Do you seriously believe the handful of people they 'acquired' outside of Turtle Rock could make those games themselves? They're big games with big budgets, but because they hired a few people somehow Valve aren't game developers? That's beyond ridiculous.

TIL: The 7 people Valve hired who made Narbacular Drop made Portal and Portal 2 all by themselves (Many of which left again before Portal 2)
TIL: The 2 people Valve hired of the Counter-Strike mod made 4 iterations of the game in 15 years all by themselves. (Edit: 1 guy who actually stayed on to work on CS).
TIL: The 3 people Valve hired of the original Team Fortress Quake mod made TF2 all by themselves and maintained it for years.

 

[Krejlooc]

So you're saying I can download the game from Steam then delete it and resell it and the person who buys it will still be able to download it through Steam?

Being able to download software isn't a tenant of DRM. You are confusing account management with digital rights management. The digital rights in question are the person's rights to the data he holds. There are no measures in place in the items above that prevent transfer of ownership from one individual to another, even in the case that the first individual illegally copies said game.

You have begun to argue that merely downloading something from a server constitutes DRM. That is the delivery method. In the example given above, the person does not need to download their game from steam as their digital content was transfered through his friend.

 

[patapuf]

I still don't understand where this "Valve don't make games!" sentiment is coming from. They didn't release a game in 2014, the first year in probably a decade or more that they've done that, and suddenly Valve no longer makes games!

During this year they've supported their major games like DOTA2 and CSGO with lots of updates, content updates and tournaments. I don't see any other company being blasted for "no making games" because they're not releasing a game every, single, year.

Valve is basically seen as one of the big guys on the block even though they really aren't all that big by employee count.

There' s also a big contigent of people that think MP games/non retail games "don't count" or are simply blind to them because the gaming press doesn't talk a whole lot about them.

 

[Krejlooc]

I'd love to know where you're getting your information then. And it's not really my gut, it's from people who have worked at Valve.

Well, considering I keep contact with their VR team, I get my information from their current employees.

And no..ability to resell games falls into what DRM is. Any sort of control over what you can do with software after purchase is .

What control do the above games have in your ability to sell said data?

 

[patapuf]

So you're saying I can download the game from Steam then delete it and resell it and the person who buys it will still be able to download it through Steam?

And no..ability to resell games falls into what DRM is. Any sort of control over what you can do with software after purchase is .

There's DRM on console disks so you can't just copy them. That's arguably also what makes reselling them possible in the first place.

There's no restriction on what you do with a GOG copy of a game. Off course it's illegal to just burn your game file on a disk and sell it or to just sell the digital file but there's no restriction on any of that in the files - there's no DRM.

 

[theusedversion]

Well, considering I keep contact with their VR team, I get my information from their current employees.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Gabe is totally in charge.

 

[Krejlooc]

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Gabe is totally in charge.

Cool.

 

[Copons]

Most services don't allow. even GOG. Therefore there's no real digital DRM-free games. Those exist solely in physical combat.

Yeah, my previous post was ironic.

Point is, the possibility of resell a good and a DRM system aren't directly related.
Sure, a DRM can prevent you from reselling stuff, but most of the times it's the license with which you bought such good that prevent you from that.
Something like a Creative Commons license saying you are allowed to copy and alter a CC-protected work, but you're not allowed to sell it.

As of now, there are neither clear (and internationally agreed upon) laws regarding the reselling of digital goods, nor safe (from everybody, customers and publishers, standpoints) technology to enforce some rules on it (like, when you resell something, you won't be able to use it anymore nor resell it again). As you can imagine, the only way to grant this possibility would be a strong DRM system applied to resellable goods.

It's quite a pickle, yeah, but an universal one.
I don't see how just Valve/Steam are directly involved in this.

 

[dragonfart28]

I find that there are some minor annoyances with Steam when it comes to security and gifting, but otherwise, I have been converted over the last year.

PS4/XBone really make no sense, unless I had the luxury to afford all platforms.

There is much better value on the PC side now.

 

[saunderez]

They need to get some customer support and build a new client from scratch but I don't feel like I'm hostage. Once I hit 1000 games I broke my "buy everything that moves addiction" so now I only use it when I actually need something. I'm mostly playing on console again these days so it's even less of a problem.

 

[theusedversion]

Cool.

Sorry but I'm leery of so called GAF insiders. Unless I see receipts, I don't give them any credence.

 

[The Cartographer]

Terrorists win?

 

[Bananastand]

As a fan of Valve's single player games the recent direction has been pretty disappointing. I like Steam and I like a lot of their attempts at innovation, but I would much rather have more amazing games like Half-Life 2, Portal, etc.

 

[RangerX]

Steam is great as a service but tbh I never thought Valve were a great game developer anyway. I think Half life 2 is the single most overrated game in history. I just don't understand the love for it. Half one was alright . left for dead is ok but nothing mindblowing. Portal is a decent puzzle game. I just don't understand why they are so lauded as developers.

 

[spindoctor]

I still don't understand where this "Valve don't make games!" sentiment is coming from. They didn't release a game in 2014, the first year in probably a decade or more that they've done that, and suddenly Valve no longer makes games!

During this year they've supported their major games like DOTA2 and CSGO with lots of updates, content updates and tournaments. I don't see any other company being blasted for "no making games" because they're not releasing a game every, single, year.

It's easy to spot out people who have no clue when they say things like 'Valve doesn't make games'. Valve has a pretty prolific record of game releases in the last few years.

The Orange Box - 2007
Left 4 Dead - 2008
Left 4 Dead 2 - 2009
Portal 2 - 2011
CS:GO - 2012
Dota 2 - 2013 (with a 2 year long beta)

And on top of that, they support their games for years. TF2 shipped with 6 maps back in 2007. Today it has something like 75 official maps with loads of new game modes. They regularly do events and try new shit out (this Halloween they added kart racing to the game!). They've updated TF2 more than 400 times in the last 7 years and it was all free.

Let's compare this to Call of Duty. There have been 7 full priced games in the last 7 years. All new content for those games have been charged for. And 6 out of those 7 games will never be updated again.

But hey, Valve doesn't make games, right?

 

[CecilRousso]

I just don't understand why they are so lauded as developers.

Because lots of people like their games much more then you.....?

Everyone doesn't have to, but I think using the phrase "I just don't understand.." is a bit funny there.

IMHO Portal 1&2 are among the absolute best single player experiences I have had, since I really like that kind of humour, think the art style is amazing, and I prefer puzzles over action. I would really want more games like that from them, but I'm also content with them constantly improving Steam for me.

 

[Jenenser]

It's really important in software that people shouldn't have to consciously 'learn' how it works. This isn't Photoshop. They should simply start using the program. It should get out of the way as much as possible and focus on the user's convenience.

There's no indication that there even is a setting to disable ads, and a first-time user will likely have to Google to find it. Then they need to make 5 clicks. Why wouldn't Steam have this option upon installation, or on the popup ad itself? Perhaps because they have poor designers - or perhaps because they don't want people to disable it. In either case the user can smell that the software doesn't really care about them and it leaves a bad lasting impression.

the problem with your post is this:
most people want it to start up with your pc because the most people that use it are gamers (and yeah, they start up their games trough steam.
ever damn pcprogramm needs to be manually configured to your habbits, even your browser... its pc 1x1... (get an overview of the options is the first thing i do with every program)
comparing it to photoshop is a strawman...
it really seems like you want to get offended by minor stuff.

 

[Lucumo]

You'd think if their only duties were to be glorified shopkeepers and maintenance on the Steam Servers that they'd at least manage to do a good job of those, but Steam goes down *constantly* and randomly. It's 10:30 AM on a Saturday during a holiday break *and* one of their big sales, and I haven't been able to log into my account for the last couple hours. Forget that time I can't get on Steam is time I can't be buying anything from their sale; How about the fact that I've got 282 games on my account representing an investment of thousands of dollars, and I can't play anything that uses Steam Matchmaking on a holiday weekend - the EXACT sort of extremely predictable free time that you'd think a massive service like Steam would be able to brace itself for.

Well, it was predictable. You bought the games yourself and now you whine about it? No one forced you to do that.

 

[Maffis]

The only thing I dislike about Valve is their declined support for Team Fortress 2 and some other stuff. Just recently they changed the market, just in time for christmas, so that all bought items from the community market and the store are untradable for 1 week. The reasoning was to combat the increasing amount of scammers, but all this do is punishing like 99.99% of the people that wants to be able to buy and trade items honestly. So instead of actively combating the real scammers, they put a lock on everybody, even those that has played TF2 for over 8 years, just because they can't be arsed to do something better. And oh, as I said, right before christmas so If you were planning on giving away items to a friend in game, you're screwed now. Valve's design choices sometimes just baffles me.

Then we have the part with TF2. For years people have been asking for support for competitive modes, but they can't even be bothered to say they have no plans. They never throw any bones at all. They've stopped updating their game with interesting new maps and weapons and instead they let the community design cosmetics which they of course riddle the game with every week. Sure, it's nice with cosmetics, but something more substantial hasn't happened for a long time. I know updates might take a long time, but look at the CS:GO forum. The devs there constantly talk with their community and bring balance patches constantly. TF2 hasn't gotten shit and the game is plagued with weapons that are fundamentally broken or useless (which is why 90% of the weapons in leagues are banned, because Valve can't balance at all).

Then they do weird shit and break a class after 7 years by completely changing a core weapon, without even asking the community. There is a sub-forum for TF2 beta which was supposed to be used for balancing, but they completely ignored that. Instead, they change things on their own. This resulted in a huge shitstorm so that they luckily went back and changed it again. But the thing is, Valve as a developer, can be really shitty at communications. And people say it's fine because Valve has always been like this. Well, I'm getting really fucking fed up with them.

Well, it was predictable. You bought the games yourself and now you whine about it? No one forced you to do that.

Don't kid yourself. Steam is used by 90% of the games today. You are, as a PC gamer, forced to use Steam because there is nothing else close. Origin is second, but the game library there is minuscule.

He has a valid complaint. Steam is down constantly.

 

[Nzyme32]

It's easy to spot out people who have no clue when they say things like 'Valve doesn't make games'. Valve has a pretty prolific record of game releases in the last few years.

The Orange Box - 2007
Left 4 Dead - 2008
Left 4 Dead 2 - 2009
Portal 2 - 2011
CS:GO - 2012
Dota 2 - 2013 (with a 2 year long beta)

And on top of that, they support their games for years. TF2 shipped with 6 maps back in 2007. Today it has something like 75 official maps with loads of new game modes. They regularly do events and try new shit out (this Halloween they added kart racing to the game!). They've updated TF2 more than 400 times in the last 7 years and it was all free.

Let's compare this to Call of Duty. There have been 7 full priced games in the last 7 years. All new content for those games have been charged for. And 6 out of those 7 games will never be updated again.

But hey, Valve doesn't make games, right?

I'd rather have this than portal 6 and half life 8 year on year

 

[RangerX]

Because lots of people like their games much more then you.....?

Everyone doesn't have to, but I think using the phrase "I just don't understand.." is a bit funny there.

IMHO Portal 1&2 are among the absolute best single player experiences I have had, since I really like that kind of humour, think the art style is amazing, and I prefer puzzles over action. I would really want more games like that from them, but I'm also content with them constantly improving Steam for me.

I don't think that make bad games, not by a long stretch, but they are revered in some peoples eyes. I understand I'm in the minority and different stroke and all that but their games just seem so average to me.

 

[Crzy1]

I can't say that I'm totally happy with Steam, but it's a lot better now than it was a year ago. They've added a handful of QOL features that make browsing through things a lot less bothersome than it was before. In-home streaming is also great.

I had over 700 trading cards collecting dust in my inventory that I could have either sold for Steam credit, traded for other cards or used them to bid on some games as a nice little meta game. I had a handful of games on my list that I was interested in, but didn't want to plunk down any of my own money on (short of steep discounts), so I turned my cards into gems and got 6 games for little more than my time spent converting cards and watching auctions. There was the option to spend money on it, but I never saw the point. If I won some free games, great, if not, I could sell the gems or make booster packs. At no point was I put on the losing end of things. I'm sure Valve made bank off the gems, but that's more to do with people not spending their money wisely (or just having more than they know what to do with).

While I don't particularly like trading cards, in-game cosmetics, or even prettying up profile pages, some people do and are willing to spend money on such things. At no point am I ever felt "forced" to participate in any of it when it comes to Valve, though. I can just play the games that I have or jump into one of their free-to-play games and just have fun, if I unlock a trading card, I don't even have to look at the thing if I don't feel so inclined.

If you really feel like you're being "held hostage" by any of these systems, you need to take a step back and analyze what exactly you're getting out of any of it and if it's worth it to spend any money or even time on any of it. As far as Steam being offline, I haven't experienced any outage during this sale (granted I haven't been playing any multiplayer games on Steam) which is really strange for me so if nothing else, it's more stable for me than it was during the summer sale. Perhaps it's the server I'm connecting to, but I got one "Steam is very busy right now, try again in a few moments." message at the very start of the sale and haven't had a single hiccup since.

I don't think that make bad games, not by a long stretch, but they are revered in some peoples eyes. I understand I'm in the minority and different stroke and all that but their games just seem so average to me.

I can't think of anything that they've done that was "average" at the time it was released. As games have evolved, they may not seem as groundbreaking as they were, but in 1998 we were still stuck with Quake clones and pretty much only Quake clones when it came to FPS games. Valve added narrative and some, for the time, stunning A.I. and made a shooter that required a bit of forethought to conquer rather than just running in guns blazing all the time. It's considered a masterpiece because it, along with games like Rainbow Six, changed the status quo. And while Half-Life 2 may not have been quite as groundbreaking, it was still a huge achievement in 2004. To call anything that they've done "average" for the time it was released is paying Valve a huge disservice.

 

[Bluth54]

The only thing I dislike about Valve is their declined support for Team Fortress 2 and some other stuff. Just recently they changed the market, just in time for christmas, so that all bought items from the community market and the store are untradable for 1 week. The reasoning was to combat the increasing amount of scammers, but all this do is punishing like 99.99% of the people that wants to be able to buy and trade items honestly. So instead of actively combating the real scammers, they put a lock on everybody, even those that has played TF2 for over 8 years, just because they can't be arsed to do something better. And oh, as I said, right before christmas so If you were planning on giving away items to a friend in game, you're screwed now. Valve's design choices sometimes just baffles me.

Then we have the part with TF2. For years people have been asking for support for competitive modes, but they can't even be bothered to say they have no plans. They never throw any bones at all. They've stopped updating their game with interesting new maps and weapons and instead they let the community design cosmetics which they of course riddle the game with every week. Sure, it's nice with cosmetics, but something more substantial hasn't happened for a long time. I know updates might take a long time, but look at the CS:GO forum. The devs there constantly talk with their community and bring balance patches constantly. TF2 hasn't gotten shit and the game is plagued with weapons that are fundamentally broken or useless (which is why 90% of the weapons in leagues are banned, because Valve can't balance at all).

Then they do weird shit and break a class after 7 years by completely changing a core weapon, without even asking the community. There is a sub-forum for TF2 beta which was supposed to be used for balancing, but they completely ignored that. Instead, they change things on their own. This resulted in a huge shitstorm so that they luckily went back and changed it again. But the thing is, Valve as a developer, can be really shitty at communications. And people say it's fine because Valve has always been like this. Well, I'm getting really fucking fed up with them.

Yeah having played a lot of TF2 since a few months after it came out the last 2 years for TF2 have been pretty disappointing. It feels like we have the D team working on the game, making bad choices for balancing, not adding in features people want like competitive support, having impossibly high standards for community maps and barely able to produce any content themselves.

 

[fantomena]

The fuck? Do you guys just make shit up because your urked at all the good will sent Valve's way?

Without Steam, the PC space would look nothing like it does today. It would look a lot more like mobile, always online f2p everywhere.

living room dreams? Eh you can use it right now just hook up your pc to a tv go big picture mode and your done. Also pile of shit? No no your thinking about 2004 the early beginnings it didn't went well but now we are here and it is very good my most used app in my existence with PC gaming and lol at unnecessary features.

Sorry, I like using big picture mode when I play games family shared off my account at a friends place with controllers on his tv.

You people are clearly not active on SteamGAF.

 

[Hedja]

I agree that the Steam client isn't great and Valve seriously needs to invest in customer support. They seem to put more money into experimentation than actually improving their core product which is an online store and DRM.

Don't get why people defend Valve so much. Yes, they've contributed a lot and are probably the best option for digital purchases on PC, but that doesn't mean to say people have to be silent with anything they find lacking. If you're not finding something lacking for a service you use, good for you, doesn't mean others cannot.

It's not about hating Valve, envy, salt, or whatever comes to your mind. It's just being a customer with needs. Taking in customer feedback is what any good company does, no matter how useless it is.

 

[Haunted]

Steam needs some chat logs.

It's basically my most used messenger at this point.

 

[Sendou]

You people are clearly not active on SteamGAF.

Most people aren't. It's in the community after all. Not a fan of these "I think I'm actually a big advocate for PC but here I am stating the exact opposite." posts.

 

[dgrdsv]

I don't feel as a hostage really but as I've said a couple of times already I almost stopped using Steam store to buy games since most of these are region locked in some way and prices for a region locked game is too high - 3-5 times higher than I'd pay for that crap. At the same time you can get proper unlocked versions for +20-30% the money elsewhere. That basically makes Steam store irrelevant to me.

 

[Lime]

Their software definitely needs to be improved

And I don't like their capitalistic exploitation of their consumer base with cards, items, gems, what-have-you.

 

[NIN90]

You people are clearly not active on SteamGAF.

Nah, your post just wasn't nearly as clever as you thought it would be.

 

[fantomena]

Nah, your post just wasn't nearly as clever as you thought it would be.

That was the point.

 

[Lime]

Honestly I'm more worried about people becoming uncritical and sycophantic of Valve by being emotionally invested in their service and brand.

 

[theusedversion]

Honestly I'm more worried about people becoming uncritical and sycophantic of Valve by being emotionally invested in their service and brand.

That already seems quite evident in this thread.

 

[spindoctor]

Don't get why people defend Valve so much. Yes, they've contributed a lot and are probably the best option for digital purchases on PC, but that doesn't mean to say people have to be silent with anything they find lacking. If you're not finding something lacking for a service you use, good for you, doesn't mean others cannot.

It depends on how the criticism is framed. You'll find a lot of people agreeing with you if you say that the client could use more features or that Valve should beef up their customer support. On the other hand, if you say that you feel like a 'hostage' in the Steam ecosystem or that optional features increase the 'mental load' of using the software, you're gonna get laughed out of the room.

 

[Copons]

That already seems quite evident in this thread.

On the other hand, do you really see many rational critics towards Valve in this thread?

Because we (generic) may be emotionally invested sycophants, but you (generic) couldn't write a real (and distinctive to Steam) issue if your lives depended on it.

 

[AJ_Wings]

The only thing I dislike about Valve is their declined support for Team Fortress 2 and some other stuff. Just recently they changed the market, just in time for christmas, so that all bought items from the community market and the store are untradable for 1 week. The reasoning was to combat the increasing amount of scammers, but all this do is punishing like 99.99% of the people that wants to be able to buy and trade items honestly. So instead of actively combating the real scammers, they put a lock on everybody, even those that has played TF2 for over 8 years, just because they can't be arsed to do something better. And oh, as I said, right before christmas so If you were planning on giving away items to a friend in game, you're screwed now. Valve's design choices sometimes just baffles me.

Then we have the part with TF2. For years people have been asking for support for competitive modes, but they can't even be bothered to say they have no plans. They never throw any bones at all. They've stopped updating their game with interesting new maps and weapons and instead they let the community design cosmetics which they of course riddle the game with every week. Sure, it's nice with cosmetics, but something more substantial hasn't happened for a long time. I know updates might take a long time, but look at the CS:GO forum. The devs there constantly talk with their community and bring balance patches constantly. TF2 hasn't gotten shit and the game is plagued with weapons that are fundamentally broken or useless (which is why 90% of the weapons in leagues are banned, because Valve can't balance at all).

Then they do weird shit and break a class after 7 years by completely changing a core weapon, without even asking the community. There is a sub-forum for TF2 beta which was supposed to be used for balancing, but they completely ignored that. Instead, they change things on their own. This resulted in a huge shitstorm so that they luckily went back and changed it again. But the thing is, Valve as a developer, can be really shitty at communications. And people say it's fine because Valve has always been like this. Well, I'm getting really fucking fed up with them.

Yeah having played a lot of TF2 since a few months after it came out the last 2 years for TF2 have been pretty disappointing. It feels like we have the D team working on the game, making bad choices for balancing, not adding in features people want like competitive support, having impossibly high standards for community maps and barely able to produce any content themselves.

As someone who still loves TF2 and plays it almost everyday, I agree wholeheartedly. :/

Really hoping the Smismass update turns out actually decent by this point.

 

[theusedversion]

On the other hand, do you really see many rational critics towards Valve in this thread?

Because we (generic) may be emotionally invested sycophants, but you (generic) couldn't write a real (and distinctive to Steam) issue if your lives depended on it.

You obviously haven't read the entire thread.

 

[Jebusman]

You obviously haven't read the entire thread.

If he did, he'd probably focus more on the 2nd part of his statement rather than the first one.

 

[Copons]

You obviously haven't read the entire thread.

I read it, and while there are some sensible critics - well known and agreed in the emotionally invested SteamGAF community - there also is an awful lot of bullshit spread around.

The microtransactions critic may be the dumber I recall at the moment, especially the guy who said you can buy guns in CS:GO.
Cool story, but if we can make up stuff, why not going all-in with something like you can pay 50$ to win an international tournament? Because at least it would make me have a good laugh.


Or why don't we talk about DRM? You know, that one thing that publishers have complete control on? (except, of course, the oh-so-surprising fact that if you buy a game on Steam you'll have to activate it on Steam)
Is that a Steam distinctive issue?
Would I be wrong if I said that it's a problem of almost every single store selling digital goods?

 

[CecilRousso]

Honestly I'm more worried about people becoming uncritical and sycophantic of Valve by being emotionally invested in their service and brand.

I don't think anyone is uncritical towards them. I really don't get where people get stuff like that.

But if people want a proper discussion about it, it's perhaps better to start with a better OP, focused on specific issues, instead of a general rant about everything and nothing, that ends with a claim that Valve's success is down to Gabe Newell getting lucky 15 years ago.

 

[Catrollinginthewind]

I feel you OP. You noticed how for DOTA they started selling the items that you can get in chests now separately if you don't want to buy the chest and take a chance and they sell the separate item for 8.99 US dollars? That's the same price people would put them up on the market for when they got an item they wouldn't want in the chest. Seriously, fuck you Valve.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

This may be a bit tangential to the topic, but has there been any outrage over Steam's new update policy, or have I just been living under a rock?
Mandatory game updates are huuuge bullshit that consumers shouldn't tolerate. Especailly considering the GTA San Andreas incident.

 

[May16]

Man... I just buy the games I want to play that are heavily discounted. Never really got into the meta-game aspect of the sales.

I think you're being overly cynical about all of this.

If you don't think there are an asston of people who fall into exactly what he talked about with the Skinner Boxes, you're kidding yourself, dude. It's not everyone, but it's a lot of people.

 

[shandy706]

Steam/Valve, the most successful service/company to deliver micro transactions outside of the mobile market.

Much like games with optional MTs, I ignore it as it doesn't alter my use of it to this point.

 

[Renzoku]

I fully agree.

1) Steam, as a client, is a joke.

2) Valve, as a game "developer", is a joke.

3) Valve literally employees its own customers to do development work for them via modding, items, etc.

4) There is no evidence whatsoever that they're actually doing anything with the piles of money they make.

5) Because Steam is an infinitely looping cash-cow, they have zero urgency to actually try to make things better, and this is made worse by the fact that they have a monopoly on the market.

 

[Qassim]

If you hang around communities of Valve games and the community of Steam, to suggest the idea that people are uncritical is ludicrous. Valve get a lot of praise, but I see them get just as much, if not more criticism in the places that matter (e.g. the places where Valve are most likely to be reading, their own communities), than most developers.

Because I play a lot of Counter-Strike and play a lot of games on Steam and hang around those communities, maybe I have a different perspective than some others in this thread. Those communities are probably 90% criticism, in fact you see the opposite of what happens on a forum like this, where Valve is generally spoken highly of so some people feel the need to balance it out with negativity, in the Valve communities it's common to see people posting positive things to balance out the 9/10 negative posts.

It's an odd reaction either way, but perhaps a natural one, I've been guilty of it, many people are guilty of it - they see a large crowd shouting something they don't agree with and they want to make sure the overall image includes them and their opinions.

I fully agree.

1) Steam, as a client, is a joke.

2) Valve, as a game "developer", is a joke.

3) Valve literally employees its own customers to do development work for them via modding, items, etc.

4) There is no evidence whatsoever that they're actually doing anything with the piles of money they make.

5) Because Steam is an infinitely looping cash-cow, they have zero urgency to actually try to make things better, and this is made worse by the fact that they have a monopoly on the market.

Is this a joke post? I'm not sure. It wouldn't be the first time in this thread.