I'm beginning to feel "held hostage" by Steam/Valve.
- Thread starter SoulUnison
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
If you want to look to history, how about you look to Valve's history?
I see not what relevance the actions of Microsoft on Google have on Steam.
The flexibility I'm talking about is not nebulous at all. You can control what tab Steam boots up in. With curated stores, you can control what games show up. You can disable pop-up ads, etc. It's control over how your client behaves.
I bring it up because the primary example in your post that I originally responded to was this:
You're attacking a straw man, or at best, attacking Valve for the past actions of others.
You can disable automatic updates on a per-game basis. You can even set priorities on which games should download updates first. You can also restrict updates to specific times of day and even throttle the bandwidth use for updating games.
How is this different than other storefronts?
I think they're still pretty cool. Big complain seems to be that Valve no longer makes games. I'm not sure if I can agree. It's true that their last singleplayer focused experience was Portal 2 almost four year ago but still they are working on games that are already "out" in traditional sense. Whether you find that relevant to your interests or not doesn't matter. It still takes manpower. People also seem quick to point out that many of Valve's now popular IP's weren't originally made by them but so what? Counter-Strike, Dota, Portal... Basically none of the games Valve bought out so to speak could have existed in the way they do now without Valve's contribution. That fact can't be belittled.
On the services side I think they have been doing pretty well too. Discovery Update, In-Home Streaming, Steam Early-Access, Community Workshop and more recently Steam Broadcast are some examples provided by the OP. It should be obvious that not everything Valve adds to Steam can be useful to you. Still it should be recognized that each and every one of those have been beneficial to a large group of people. On the other side people seem quick to call out Valve's micro-transaction economy. The thing is that I don't see the problem here either. Creators benefit, players who don't want to use those items benefit and people who use the items seem happy about it too. So what's the harm here? If it's just that you personally can't get over the concept then maybe it's time to become a better person. I don't really think that any of the games Valve offers for free to play (TF2, Dota 2) are designed in a way that tricks you into spending money or anything.
Of course stuff like proper customer service and good servers just have to be a thing. Then again I think it's widely different issue from the points I discussed above. Valve's 2015 seems exciting to me. Primarily Steam Controller tries something that really hasn't gotten a proper push before. Basically continuing what Valve started with Big Picture Mode.
On the services side I think they have been doing pretty well too. Discovery Update, In-Home Streaming, Steam Early-Access, Community Workshop and more recently Steam Broadcast are some examples provided by the OP. It should be obvious that not everything Valve adds to Steam can be useful to you. Still it should be recognized that each and every one of those have been beneficial to a large group of people. On the other side people seem quick to call out Valve's micro-transaction economy. The thing is that I don't see the problem here either. Creators benefit, players who don't want to use those items benefit and people who use the items seem happy about it too. So what's the harm here? If it's just that you personally can't get over the concept then maybe it's time to become a better person. I don't really think that any of the games Valve offers for free to play (TF2, Dota 2) are designed in a way that tricks you into spending money or anything.
Of course stuff like proper customer service and good servers just have to be a thing. Then again I think it's widely different issue from the points I discussed above. Valve's 2015 seems exciting to me. Primarily Steam Controller tries something that really hasn't gotten a proper push before. Basically continuing what Valve started with Big Picture Mode.
Few people here are asking for discs. When people are talking about DRM free, they are talking about what GOG and a number of rival storefronts use.
It is entirely possible to make that transition. The only problems are the publishers who don't want to support it.
And anyway, many issues with Steam mentioned in this very thread have nothing to do with DRM. A few games on Steam are even DRM free, surprisingly.
AcceptableGhost
Member
This.
Pretty much, and my nitpicks are pretty tiny compared to the benefits.
This is a pretty reasonable response for anyone that's been using a computer for any length of time. I don't know why someone would be adverse to checking the options available on some software. I mean, it feels automatic to find out the basic keys required to use a game in the first place (and rebind them to something which will be personally intuitive).
The idea that you should never look through the settings is really bizarre.
You heard wrong.
You can turn off automatic updates. I haven't updated Starbound in over six months because the damn thing was downloading every single week.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
ITT a bunch of people complaining about problems that already have viable and easy solutions.
Valkerionseven
Member
Same, I've had Steam since the start and I still don't know what 99% of the stuff on it is, cards, trading, auctions, voting... completely clueless as to what this shit is or where its at. I just use it to get/launch games.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
I've not read the whole thread but has someone explained what platform is ahead of Steam, since it's allegedly years behind?
not psycho
Member
How?
When I click properties and go to updates, it has 2 choices: always update, and only update when launch. There is no "play without updating option."
Now, there used to be an option that said don't update. But that option didn't work. For almost the entire history of Steam it would still force you to update when you wanted to play. There was a short window of time where it seemed to be working (at least for some games), but then the option was removed completely.
I haven't tried it, but I would guess you could buy DRM-free DLC from, say the Humble Store, and it might install over a GOG game but not a Steam game. Could be a case by case issue as well. I don't consider this a huge issue, but nevertheless with DLC so popular being locked into where you bought the base game isn't good.
CecilRousso
Member
The same here. It's far from perfect, but still far better then similiar clients and it has from that I joined Steam vastly improved my situation as a PC gamer.
It's not like we would have had a DRM free paradise on PC now if Steam would not have existed.
This.
cicero
Member
I would say that it is THE key difference. That and the very specific leadership by Gabe who seems to have structured the entire company as the antithesis of his former company, Microsoft, the maker of the Xbox, the specific product given in that false analogy.
Your wrong there and they don't give a fuck anymore? Clearly you didn't see the new updates to the store they did 2 months ago adding en changing a lot of stuff and the steam client. Your either blind seeing that there still working on stuff also Dota 2 is still going strong again you didn't read the blogs or neither played just because nitpicking for the sake of it also never played it by seeing this post. Valve is working to this day on Steam providing updates to the store adding new futures like you can play your own music etc.
Also that last part is your internet connection it has nothing to do with them since the game is running on dedicated servers. Either you have a good connection or just a bad setup not working properly or not picking a region where your living in. My ping is low at least 15-23ms.
Phrozenflame500
Member
I never understood this sentiment. DOTA 2 was released last year and CSGO was released the year before. This has actually been the first year in a while where they haven*t released any new games. And the acquisitions argument may make sense from an IP perspective but a majority of the development staff still are Valve employees (I guess arguable for CSGO, but even then Valve said they stepped it midway in development and all the support since).
Anyways, while I sympathize with a lot of the complaints that Valve needs to beef up the technical side of many of Steam services, the core "buy games cheap, play them" hasn't actually changed so I'm pretty content.
Beerman462
Member
The only valid complaint I've seen laid against Valve's DRM is that automatic updating breaks mods. Even that could be a double edged sword, because automatic updates are pretty convenient. Other than that its people complaining about a clunky store front or things like market place or micro transactions that they are in no way obligated to participate in.
Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, you can't play your game if there is an update available unless you have an executable that does not use the steam client. I'm pretty sure you can play older versions of games to keep mod functionality working but then you're going to have to start into the cumbersome use of external mods and whatnot. I remember getting one of the earlier builds of X-Com's Longest War was a huge hassle.
NotoriousPUG
Member
And those people subsidize the game for everyone else that literally plays for free. Why would I complain that someone else is keeping games afloat that I like?
Having a clunky store front, the library requiring you to automatically update, none of that is DRM. None of it. They are issues separate issues with Valve policy/Steam.
DRM ties your software down. In Steam's case it ties it to Steam so you cannot launch it without Steam being available. This isn't as bad as more invasive tactics like always online DRM, but it still annoys some people who like to have more freedom and don't want to worry about situations where Valve might block access to games (either through their account being hacked, VAC banning, or some other means. Their customer service is fucking godawful so good luck getting it back after), or Steam going under in godknows how many years.
Steamworks is honestly pretty good as far as DRM goes, but it is still DRM. Also, yes this DRM linked with Valve's recent change in policy on game updates can and will break mods and all sorts. Without that DRM you could just launch the game outside of Steam and not update it, you still can on the few Steam games that come without DRM.
With GOG, you download it and you have pretty much unlimited access. You keep the installer, never need to look at GOG again, never need to worry about losing access, it'll just be there.
And go back to my post on page 1 if you want other complaints that are not just "clunky store" type complaints.
Pretty much.
This is a weird thread with so many people complaining about optional stuff.
Steam is the best value in gaming. I don't understand what there is to feel "held hostage" by. Leave that to console gaming where you have to put up with shit like paying outlandish fees to do things like allowing for "exclusive" discounts, multiplayer, and $10 to change your username (or no fee but also no option, ever, in the case of PSN).
The client could use a nice overhaul, everything else though I am pretty indifferent about. I don't really care about what games Valve is or isn't developing and most of the stuff they have added to Steam over the years doesn't really get my attention. That's fine though because all the stuff I really care about Steam still does just was well at as it did years ago. The addition of cards was nice as it is pretty much bonus money and I do like the overhaul they did to the Steam store as well.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
the problem with valve's dominance is that there isn't a "generation reset" every 5-8 years as with consoles. because when a platform holder would screw up (n64 or ps3 for example), then people could just switch to the competition
setting up the necessary online infrastructure to compete with steam is a nightmare as well, both in terms of complexity and the amount of money necessary. and then there's a third factor, trust, which will completely prevent many companies -- microsoft, ea, ubisoft, activision, to name a few -- of ever being good replacements for valve
the only companies i can see at this point providing a decent alternative are cdpr with gog and amazon if they decide to commit to the market rather than just being on the periphery as they are right now. if google or apple were interested in it, they could as well. though i'm not sure about trust with regards to google and i find everything from apple to be unreasonably priced.
setting up the necessary online infrastructure to compete with steam is a nightmare as well, both in terms of complexity and the amount of money necessary. and then there's a third factor, trust, which will completely prevent many companies -- microsoft, ea, ubisoft, activision, to name a few -- of ever being good replacements for valve
the only companies i can see at this point providing a decent alternative are cdpr with gog and amazon if they decide to commit to the market rather than just being on the periphery as they are right now. if google or apple were interested in it, they could as well. though i'm not sure about trust with regards to google and i find everything from apple to be unreasonably priced.
Uhh, who needs a "replacement"? There's, as you said, sites like Amazon, GoG, Greemangaming, Humble Bundle, Humble Store... there's a lot of competition all things considered. You can only do so much for PC gaming when everything is digital to begin with.
For PS4/Xbone/Wii U, each console has its own store and that's pretty much it, unless you find a download code on sale somewhere...
There's a reason why Steam is so popular: It has a huge variety of games available and offers deep discounts on a regular basis with minimal interference with the overall gameplay experience (no bullshit rules, fees, etc.)
Beerman462
Member
If people feel that strongly about it then why not buy the game and crack it? It's a grey area, but if you legally purchased the game and feel you should have access to it in any way you see fit then it's an easy solution.
A few things that annoy you
Awful customer service-Never used it, never had to so no opinion
Green light not well implemented-Not using that either
Region Locking-Doesn't effect me
But you use GoG cause
Code:
DRM Free!I'm at ~250 games on steam and put more than 5 hours in 80 of them, given that I bought humble bundles with more than 10 games in them for a good price with the intent to play one of two of them beforehand. It's actually not as bad of a quota as I thought.
But well I'm also one of those rare persons that buys some games even knowing that I won't put serious time into them just because I like the games concept or developers of the game =/
On Topic, I agree that steam has a lot of features that are totally not for me and I think most of them are uninteresting to most users of steam.
But it never really stopped me from using steam the way I want, I use it to organize most of my games in one spot and it works for me.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
just yesterday i brought 7 great games that i had missed out on during there release and im quite excited to play them.
they were a range of games, some release only a year or 2 ago, one released before i was even born (thats over 20 years ago)
it cost me $24 dollars in total.
normally i would have been lucky to get a single one of them for that much.
what the absolute fuck are you whining about? steam is probably the best thing to happen to the games industry from a consumer standpoint, and its only gotten better over time.
sure i would like for valve to have kept up there in house games development over the past few years, but i dont feel they have any responsibility to continue them (except for maybe episode 3, that cliffhanger was just cruel).
bitching at the hand that high fives you.
they were a range of games, some release only a year or 2 ago, one released before i was even born (thats over 20 years ago)
it cost me $24 dollars in total.
normally i would have been lucky to get a single one of them for that much.
what the absolute fuck are you whining about? steam is probably the best thing to happen to the games industry from a consumer standpoint, and its only gotten better over time.
sure i would like for valve to have kept up there in house games development over the past few years, but i dont feel they have any responsibility to continue them (except for maybe episode 3, that cliffhanger was just cruel).
bitching at the hand that high fives you.
Er, as long as the game is over $5, you can straight up buy any PS game. This is because of credit card and PayPal fees. You don't have to add any money to your wallet, as long as it's over $5.
It is often said that the best FX in movies or TV series are the ones you do not notice. Benjamin Button? That is what Valve is for the PC. They are there, doing things that matter and keeping this market out of the sticky fingers of Uplay and Origin. Steam is the best thing that has happened to PC since the PC itself.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
I don't feel held hostage as I broke out of the buy shit cause its cheap deal awhile ago, but I do feel more or less bored with Valve as a game developer. I appreciate what they've done for pc gaming and VR development, but beyond that I think their current focus on all things tf2/dota is just dull. Portal 2 is still in my top ten from last gen, I just want more lovingly crafted single player experiences like that from them. I think the steam box thing is kind of a wash personally and don't expect it to give them very much of a roi, I'm just hopeful they have at least one dev team working on another sp title.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Don't forget that "small mode" exists (atleast in the windows client), it is pretty cool.
living room dreams? Eh you can use it right now just hook up your pc to a tv go big picture mode and your done. Also pile of shit? No no your thinking about 2004 the early beginnings it didn't went well but now we are here and it is very good my most used app in my existence with PC gaming and lol at unnecessary features.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Sorry, I like using big picture mode when I play games family shared off my account at a friends place with controllers on his tv.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I MS critical as the next person but I can't agree with anything that you're saying
steam is about the only platform on PC that has consistently added features and done a lot of community oriented activities. They've done an amazing job in nurturing the community and creating an economy that is second to none.
As far as games and sales in this feeling that you're trapped, that's a you problem.
steam is about the only platform on PC that has consistently added features and done a lot of community oriented activities. They've done an amazing job in nurturing the community and creating an economy that is second to none.
As far as games and sales in this feeling that you're trapped, that's a you problem.
Labrynian Rebel
Member
The steam games I own:
Victoria
Victoria II
Crusader Kings II
Europa Universalis IV
Broken Age
Civilization V
Portal
Portal 2
Heroine's Quest
The Stanley Parable
I enjoy steam as a good digital console, and don't understand why you'd spend money on dumb things like trading cards and sales for stuff you don't want and then complain about having 100s of games in your backlog.
Victoria
Victoria II
Crusader Kings II
Europa Universalis IV
Broken Age
Civilization V
Portal
Portal 2
Heroine's Quest
The Stanley Parable
I enjoy steam as a good digital console, and don't understand why you'd spend money on dumb things like trading cards and sales for stuff you don't want and then complain about having 100s of games in your backlog.
opticalmace
Member
Don't forget that "small mode" exists (atleast in the windows client), it is pretty cool.
Oh, cool. Had no idea about this. Thanks for the tip, using it now.
No, he didn't. Their servers are legit awful at the moment. Tons of connectivity issues with high packet loss/high latency games. It's a widespread issue.
Plus they have had a fairly crazy amount of Dota server outages this year.
eyeball_kid
Member
The only real complaint about Steam I have is that their Mac client is junk. It's a higher grade of junk than it used to be -- it's crashed my machine several times in the past -- but it took far too long to even get to that point. Probably because instead of using native UI, the client is mostly just WebKit views, and considering how much it lags and hitches, everything is probably done on the main thread as well. They need to spend more time on the customer experience, as this benefits both them and us.
The Shogun
Banned
I love Steam.
The question of what exactly Valve is........doing is a good one though. I mean seriously what is their staff actually working on day to day and are they investing anything with their mountains of cash? It seems nothing really is coming out from Valve at all.
The question of what exactly Valve is........doing is a good one though. I mean seriously what is their staff actually working on day to day and are they investing anything with their mountains of cash? It seems nothing really is coming out from Valve at all.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I just hate that Valve has no interest in making single player games.
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